Re: Trade Rumor Thread

[tjmakz]

I just can't see Atlanta trading 2 of their top 3 players to an Eastern Conf competitor for Avery Bradley, spare parts, and non-lottery draft picks.
If the players and draft picks were reversed, would you want Boston trading away Horford and Teague for that package of players and picks?

[wideclyde]

Gallinari is an interesting player as he can certainly score. Not sure that he is much on defense or on the boards so his value appears to be only on the offensive end.

I would not trade the Nets pick for him, but would consider Lee, some picks and probably another player for him. Obviously, a player or two would have to go to get him and they would have to be interested in some of Ainge's many draft picks. I could definitely overpay for him with draft picks since we have so many of them.

[worcester]

ATL is not stupid. I agree with TJ.

[bobheckler]

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/01/boston_celtics_rumors_2016_dan_3.html#incart_river_index


Boston Celtics trade rumors 2016: Danny Ainge has reportedly inquired about Jeff Teague and Al Horford


Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com


on January 30, 2016 at 12:15 PM




One team to watch as the NBA trade deadline approaches: the Atlanta Hawks.

Earlier this week, The Vertical's Adrian Wojnarowski reportedly said on his podcast, "There's a chance that Atlanta team pushes the reset button." CSNNE's Chris Mannix provided a similar outline Friday night on the station's Boston Celtics telecast -- and said the Celtics have actually inquired about both Jeff Teague and Al Horford.

"Atlanta, I've been told, is ready to turn the page, to give the team to Dennis Schroeder, their young point guard,who is ready to step up and be a starter," Mannix said. "Teague is available because Teague has some value. He has another year left on his contract, about $8 million per year, and teams across the league are looking to get him.

"I've heard that Boston's inquired about several players with Atlanta, Teague and Al Horford. Teague might seem like a weird fit with this team because they already have point guards but he is an asset, he's someone the Celtics could be interested in. Horford, a little more difficult. It would be a gamble going after Al Horford because Al Horford is in the last year of his deal and he's going to command a salary north of $20 million next year. But as we know and as I just said, Danny Ainge is a gambling GM. He could make a move like that too."

Given Teague's production and team-friendly contract, any team with assets should feel obligated at least to gauge his availability. That being said, putting the 2015 All-Star alongside 2016 All-Star Isaiah Thomas would provide an interesting dynamic (and not because of this).

Horford has been a two-way stud for years, the type of big man who could really make a difference in the Celtics frontcourt. His impending free agency complicates things, but man, he's really been good for a while. By trading him, the Hawks would be rapidly moving on from a team that won 60 games last season and is still tied for fourth in the Eastern Conference (with Boston). It would be a surprising move, but maybe they're worried Horford could bolt or believe they need to take a different path to contention.


bob
MY NOTE:  Just Danny being Danny.


.

[kdp59]

I SWEAR I had nothing to do with that article.

[bobheckler]

I SWEAR I had nothing to do with that article.

Sure, Danny, sure.


bob


.

[dboss]

Horford is the best player on the Hawks.  They have taken a step back i think because their rotation is a lot different without Carrol.  Carrol reminds me of our own Jae Crowder.  He is a high energy guy that really made the Hawks very competitive at both ends becasue not only was he a consistent scorer he also plays very solid defense.

The Hawks should be able to keep Horford and I see no reason why they would not do that.  If the hawKs were planing to move Horford I doubt they would have resigned Milsap.  I could see them moving Teague because he is coming up on the final year of a reasonable $8 million salary.  Although Schroeder is not as good as Teague I can see where he may be ready to take over starting PG duties.  However I see no good reason why the Celtics would be looking to get Jeff Teague.  We already have a stater in Thomas and a backup in Smart.  Afterall Danny drafted Smart and then Rozier so why would we need to go after another PG at $8 million with an expiring contract??  

As far the the Rudy gay rumors,  I never really liked him that much.  And if they moved Sullinger then we would be moving our best rebounder.  The notion that we are somehow going to get Horford is a fantasy.  

As far as moving AB, if you moved him I guarantee you that the defense will not be as good.

The Celtics would like to make a move but i see no good reason to screw up the core of this team.  If we are not able to make a favorable trade then that is fine with me.  Next year Lee will be gone as well as Turner and Boston has to make a qualifying offer on Sullinger and Zeller.

The Celtics really do not have to make a trade unless it is most favorable to the needs that the Celtics have.  The other thing to ocnsider is that the team seems to have found a certain chemistry after countless rotation changes.  We now have a pretty solid starting 5 and rotation players that can step in and play together.  It is a real good mix.  if you bring in 3 or 4 new players at this pooint you will screw up that chemistry.

dboss

[worcester]

Dboss, thanks for sticking up for continuity. Your other comments abot ATL and trades are also spot on. Once again, after I win the Powerball and buy the Celts, you're my top pick for GM. Gyso can be your cap guru, and Heckler can step into Johnny Most's shoes.

[dboss]

Dboss, thanks for sticking up for continuity. Your other comments abot ATL and trades are also spot on. Once again, after I win the Powerball and buy the Celts, you're my top pick for GM. Gyso can be your cap guru, and Heckler can step into Johnny Most's shoes.

I'll take that job!

Worcester continuity is important even though this team needs to make a few changes.

Horford by the way is an undersized center and his rebounding numbers are on the decline.  The Hawks have a vested interest in keeping him but I do not see where he would move the needle for the Celtics.

It took me a long time to buy into the pace and space style of play.  Now that I have done that the only thing I want to see is more knock down shooters and a rim protector.  I am not even convinced that if we added a player like Cousins that it would lead to a championship.  I am convinced that if we added a SG and a SF that can flat out shoot the rock that Boston would begin to approach the offensive ability of the Warriors.  They have set the bar up really high but that bar can still be reached.  

All year long the one thing that everyone talks about is how the Celtics struggle when they cannot make their 3 point shots.  Our defense is well above average but it is our 3 point shooting that is the weakness on this team.  So that should be the focus.  Anything that does not address that weakness is of little interest to me.

As good as the defense is if we can add rim protector the defense could be the best in the NBA.  Add 2 more shooters to the mix and The Celtics will become an elite level team.  I think we are really close to getting there.  

dboss

[cowens/oldschool]

Maybe TJ's onto something...


Orazio Cauchi: With the trade deadline incoming, one of the targets for the Boston Celtics is Danilo Gallinari, per source. Ainge is high on him. 5 hours ago – via Twitter paxer89



bob


.

I don't care for Gallinari myself. I see him as an older Kelly who plays LESS defense.

Or as  a Kevin Love who can't rebound.

agreed this team is all about pace and defense, we have 3 premier defenders in AB, Smart and Crowder, then Amir does a pretty decent job as a poor mans version of KG. Gallinari cannot defend the 3 or 4 that well and gets injured alot, even Jerebko is a much faster better defender than Gallo, I'd pass.

[Outside]

For what it's worth, here's a comparison of Gallinari and Olynyk this season:

http://bkref.com/tiny/Mjpfb

I think Gallinari is significantly better offensively, but as Cowens noted, he's got a troubling injury history.

What the Celtics really need is a couple of consistent two-way players. They need offense, and Gallinari could help with that, but D is not his specialty.

[kdp59]

For what it's worth, here's a comparison of Gallinari and Olynyk this season:

http://bkref.com/tiny/Mjpfb

I think Gallinari is significantly better offensively, but as Cowens noted, he's got a troubling injury history.

What the Celtics really need is a couple of consistent two-way players. They need offense, and Gallinari could help with that, but D is not his specialty.

Based on your link, I don't see Gallinari as a lot better offensively.

when I look at the per 36 minutes (trying to compare apples to apples) Gallinari takes more shots and is a better FT shooter than Kelly only.

Kelly has higher 2 point and 3 point shotting %, is a better rebounder, has higher steals and blocks.

Galinari commits less fouls ( I would argue because he gives little effort on the defensive end).

I think that link proves exactly why I don't want Galinari and see him as an older, more expensive and worst overall player than Kelly is right now.

[kdp59]

on another note , I was reading this morning that perhaps (rumors) that Philly may still be looking at moving Noel.

a Sullinger and either Young or Hunter, along with say Dallas or our own first could possible get it done.

IF Danny would even want him of course. Noel is NOT an all-star, but he does do some things we currently need on the roster.

looking at Phillys current roster, I would consider an offer of:

Sully, Zeller, Young or Hunter and Dallas first rounder
for
Noel and Thompson ( good 3 point shooter at SG or SF).

Philly is BELOW the cap and can take more salary back then they send out, right now.

I am not sure that would be enough to entice them even IF Danny felt it was a good deal for us, though. Nor if Sully and Okafor could play together.

[dboss]

I do not see this as an upgrade

Noel and Sully are very similar from a productivity standpoint.  Noel is quicker but Sully is more physical in the post.  Noel is a horrible free throw shooter.  Where is the benefit here?

As far as Hollis Thompson is concerned appears to make the 3 ball but we are looking at a small sample size, below average free throw shooter.  IMO the first round pick mentioned could probably net a player as good if not better than Hollis.

Overal  this trade rumor is not very enticing.

dboss

[kdp59]

Dboss,

It wasn't a trade rumor, sorry.

it was only my thoughts after reading that Noel is perhaps back on the block.

I think noel gives us that elusive shot blocker over Sully and he is under his rookie deal for one more year.

but you are correct he is not the FT shooter that Sully is, nor does he have Sullys outside shot (when he has it , of course).

I didn't see this as a trade that moves us into the elites right now, more of the moving the needle forward a bit.

I can certainly understand where many would feel its just moving parts though.

onto another thought:

thinking about trades and such and players we have now and the draft picks a bit.

I personallly feel that no one on the current roster is safe in a trade for an elite player. Elite ot me is an All-PRO type player, not simply a player that makes an all-star team once (or even once in a while).

But since those players are RARELY ever traded.......

The following are current assets I would like to ONLY trade for an all-STAR type player (a step down for the elite player).

1. I. Thomas
2. M. Smart
3. A. Bradley
4. J. Crowder
5. K. Olynyk

I would consider the Nets pick this year, depending on the player aquired ( Cousins= yes, Love=no)

all other players and assets would be availible in a trade to upgrade the team now and/or in the future.


Thats how I try to look at trade rumors and such, right now.

[bobheckler]

Channing Frye, of Orlando, is supposedly on the block.

32 years old, stretch 5 (ugh!), 6'11", 255# (get your ass down in the blocks!!).

His production has fallen off the last two years, but he is still shooting 41.4% from 3.  NOT a good rebounder, but what do you expect from someone who is allergic to paint?

Contract - $8.1M this year, $7.8M next year and $7.4M the year after that.


bob


.

[wideclyde]

Bob,

I would not want Frye even if Orlando would only accept just David Lee for him. I would not include even one of the many second rounders never mind any one of the Cs first round picks that Ainge will have.

Frye does not only not rebound well (as you mentioned) for a guy who is 6'11 but he also does not play good enough defense at this stage of his career. He is clearly heading down hill and will eat up a lot of salary for what he is likely to be able to add to the team for the rest of this year AND two more years after this.

Adding Frye also does not solve the over crowded front court situation even if he does shoot threes better than anyone except Olynyk.

[dboss]

[quote="kdp59"]Dboss,

It wasn't a trade rumor, sorry.

it was only my thoughts after reading that Noel is perhaps back on the block.

I think noel gives us that elusive shot blocker over Sully and he is under his rookie deal for one more year.

but you are correct he is not the FT shooter that Sully is, nor does he have Sullys outside shot (when he has it , of course).

I didn't see this as a trade that moves us into the elites right now, more of the moving the needle forward a bit.

I can certainly understand where many would feel its just moving parts though.

onto another thought:

thinking about trades and such and players we have now and the draft picks a bit.

I personallly feel that no one on the current roster is safe in a trade for an elite player. Elite ot me is an All-PRO type player, not simply a player that makes an all-star team once (or even once in a while).

But since those players are RARELY ever traded.......

The following are current assets I would like to ONLY trade for an all-STAR type player (a step down for the elite player).

1. I. Thomas
2. M. Smart
3. A. Bradley
4. J. Crowder
5. K. Olynyk

I would consider the Nets pick this year, depending on the player aquired ( Cousins= yes, Love=no)

all other players and assets would be availible in a trade to upgrade the team now and/or in the future.


Thats how I  try to look at trade rumors and such, right now.


KDP59

Agree..The Celts would have to part ways with a player or players that we really like if we expected to make a trade for an elite player.

There are few similarities between the previous rebuild and this one and maybe becasue of that there is no Block buster trade to be made.

The 2006-2007 team had some pretty good young talent and a franchise player in Paul Pierce and they managed to drop 18 games in a row.  Doc never accepted responsibility for losing 18 in a row.  He blamed it on the players.  That team went 24-58.  That team needed a serious makeover.

Fast forward to the 2015-2016 team.  This team also has a lot of young players but no clear cut young stud and NO franchise player.  Coach Stevens has done a  terrific job overall and has never used any excuses when they lose a game.  He is the anti-Doc.  This team is in the midst of a playoff spot for the second year in a row and has already established a style of play on both defense and offense that the 06-07 team could never have achieved.  This team has tons of draft picks and very friendly contracts even for their best players like Thomas or Bradley or Crowder.  I do not think this team needs a major makeover.  What we need to do is add a few pieces to address our weaknesses.  We have an amazing defensive team that only lacks a rim protector.  Add that rim protector and the defensive will be as good as any team in the NBA.  On offense we score a lot of points but our shooting percentage from behind the arc is not good enough on a consistent basis.  Therefore we just need to add a couple of knock down shooters.  But so many teams are also looking for the same thing becasue the style of play in the NBA has changed.  We are not going to make a trade for Curry or Thompson or any high profile top oif the line shooter so I see not reason to settle for the leftovers.

This draft may not have a lot of quality bigs but it sure has a lot of very talented shooters.  So Boston should be able to draft two very good shooters and then use free agency and trades to acquire a defensive minded center.  We still have the kid Mickey in the wings and I can tell you that he is a very talented shot blocker although undersized.  His wingspan is that of a center.  So next year Lee is gone and maybe a few other players and they will not be missed becasue we have a chance to upgrade their positions through the draft and off season trades and free agency.

The Golden State Warriors built their Championship team through the draft and by adding complimentary pieces to the puzzle.  They were smart enough not to bite at the Kevin love apple.  Yea they lucked up getting Curry and Thompson and the Celtics need to luck up too but they have to make their on luck.

dboss

[kdp59]

What we need to do is add a few pieces to address our weaknesses. We have an amazing defensive team that only lacks a rim protector. Add that rim protector and the defensive will be as good as any team in the NBA. On offense we score a lot of points but our shooting percentage from behind the arc is not good enough on a consistent basis. Therefore we just need to add a couple of knock down shooters. But so many teams are also looking for the same thing becasue the style of play in the NBA has changed. We are not going to make a trade for Curry or Thompson or any high profile top oif the line shooter so I see not reason to settle for the leftovers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thus my thoughts on trying to get Norl and H. Thompson in a trade.

rim protecter= check
additional 3 point shooter= check

Sully, Zeller and young or Hunter and Dalls first= worth it to me.

but it STILL isn't a rumor (but like the Horford and teague trade, perhaps it will become one).

[dboss]

[quote="kdp59"] What we need to do is add a few pieces to address our weaknesses.  We have an amazing defensive team that only lacks a rim protector.  Add that rim protector and the defensive will be as good as any team in the NBA.  On offense we score a lot of points but our shooting percentage from behind the arc is not good enough on a consistent basis.  Therefore we just need to add a couple of knock down shooters.  But so many teams are also looking for the same thing becasue the style of play in the NBA has changed.  We are not going to make a trade for Curry or Thompson or any high profile top oif the line shooter so I see not reason to settle for the leftovers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thus my thoughts on trying to get Norl and H. Thompson in a trade.

rim protecter= check
additional 3 point shooter= check

Sully, Zeller and young or Hunter and Dalls first= worth it to me.

but it STILL isn't a rumor (but like the Horford and teague trade, perhaps it will become one).







I suppose that if you think Noel is a good defender and that Thompson is a good shooter... sure.

However I do not believe either of those assertions.

Consider that Noel has a defensive rating of 103.1 and Sullinger the guy you would trade has a rating of 98.5

As far as Thompson being a good 3 point shooter he makes 1.7 3 pt shots per game in 26 minutes and he is a below average free throw shooter.

We need real 3 point shooters and not a novice and we need more than one of them. A rim protector is not just a shot blocker thus Noels is not of interest to me in that role.

dboss

[swish]

During the Celtic's 18 game loosing streak in 2006-07 it should be noted that Pierce missed the 1st 16 games because of a hand injury. He did play in the last 2 loses. I wonder if his missing all those games could have been a factor in some of those loses?

[bobheckler]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240643/Hawks-Willing-To-Engage-With-Teams-On-Al-Horford-Trade



Hawks Willing To Engage With Teams On Al Horford Trade
FEB 1, 2016 7:25 PM


The Atlanta Hawks are expected to listen to offers for Al Horford before the Feb. 18th deadline.

Horford has enjoyed playing for the Hawks but he's expected to explore free agency.

“Obviously, my focus right now is on the season, the team and the things I need to do," Horford told Yahoo Sports. "That’s kind of where I am going to leave it.”

As a Spanish speaker, Horford could have more opportunities in another market.

“Atlanta has the potential for a guy like myself to maximize [the business] part of it,” Horford told Yahoo Sports. “But obviously there are other cities, bigger cities that are more appealing probably [business- and marketing-wise]. The impact would be bigger if that is what you are looking for.”



Horford was the third overall pick by the Hawks in 2007 out of Florida.

“The city itself is a great city,” Horford told Yahoo Sports. “People are great. This Hawks’ organization is moving in the right direction. With the new ownership, with the coach, I really feel good about the future of the Hawks.”

MARC J. SPEARS/YAHOO! SPORTS



bob
MY NOTE: This, "As a Spanish speaker, Horford could have more opportunities in another market." makes me think it is not a good trade for us. He would need to agree to re-sign with us and Boston is not as Spanish-centric as LA, SAS, Miami, Phoenix and pretty much any arena near the border.


.

[bobheckler]

During the Celtic's 18 game loosing streak in 2006-07 it should be noted that Pierce missed the 1st 16 games because of a hand injury. He did play in the last 2 loses. I wonder if his missing all those games  could have been a factor in some of those loses?

swish,

I would think that the lack of other high quality leaders on that team might have contributed to it too. Indy did much worse without Paul George last year but they didn't completely fall apart neither.


bob


.

[dboss]

They are talking about Horford trade. They want ko,, Crowder and.Hunter. All over the sport talk shows down here.

Atl does not want to pay him max contract money. They say he is not worth it.

I say hell freakin no to their trade offer.

Dboss

[swish]

During the Celtic's 18 game loosing streak in 2006-07 it should be noted that Pierce missed the 1st 16 games because of a hand injury. He did play in the last 2 loses. I wonder if his missing all those games  could have been a factor in some of those loses?

swish,

I would think that the lack of other high quality leaders on that team might have contributed to it too.  Indy did much worse without Paul George last year but they didn't completely fall apart neither.


bob


.

bob

Other than Pierce the team was certainly hurting for senior leadership. That team had 8 players with at least 1500 minutes played for the season and 7 0f them averaged out to 21.9 years old. With that much youth forming the core of the team a lousy record was pretty much guaranteed.

swish

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