Re: 2016 Playoff Thread

[Outside]

That was a championship-level performance by the Warriors. Great defense, toughness, and poise.

It was one of the most physical games I've seen in a long time where the refs let most of the contact go. Cleveland should have been the more physical team due to their size and bulk advantage, and they were early with Tristan Thompson, but the Warriors played through it, were the tougher team in the end, and left the Cavs whining about calls after the game. There were plenty of fouls not called both ways.

LeBron had a nice stat line at first glance, but I think he played poorly compared to his standards. He was tentative, made poor decisions, lost the ball on the dribble, threw the ball away, and took poor shots in crunch time.

Solid performance across the roster, and it was good to see Curry finally have a breakout game shooting threes. Closeout games are tough, but I think they get it done Monday.

[dbrown4]

First things first. I'm done predicting games!!

Second, here's what I don't get about CLE management/ownership. Why don't they make Phil Jackson an offer he can't refuse and bring him out of coaching retirement to CLE?

I've said this before, but LeBron James can take four of us from this site to the Finals anytime and get within 2 games of the title. That's how good he is. But it's getting past those next two games that is light years of hard work, effort, brain games, a little good fortune and a very special coach. Phil Jackson is that guy that can get CLE over that 2 game hump.

It baffles me that Gilbert goes with David Blatt then Tyrone Lue with all that is on the line. No disrespect to these guys because the coach plays a bigger role than we can imagine massaging egos and orchestrating the game, but Lue is getting his lunch handed to him by Kerr. Not giving LeBron or Irving any time off the whole second half is a rookie mistake. Even if it is for just a play, give your guys a breather.

Gilbert clearly doesn't factor the value of the coach very highly into his overall game plan. And when you have someone like LeBron, I can see how you would think that way. As much as I hated us going up against Phil Jackson's teams, he was a master at taking very above average teams past this hump that CLE appears to be on and can't get over.

Great game plan by Steve. Stuck to is guns and what got him here and added McAdoo to buy some fouls/time and an amazing sprinkle of Varajeo. Nobody's spots are changing in the short run, GSW or CLE.

PJ has to be in the back of CLE's mind this off season. I think he's the only one that can solve this dilemma.

db

[bobheckler]

Watching this game while a big band played in the back room of the Savanna Jazz Bar (formerly Clooneys) was a lot of fun, even if the cheers from the front room did disrupt the musicians.  Smiles all around when the game ended and the band was playing "Besame Mucho" (Kiss Me Alot).

Great game by Irving.  A pretty good game by James too, but he blew some bunnies and that got into his head and he started to lose it towards the end.  I'll give him one thing, he wants to bring the first championship in any sport to "The Land" since the 1964 Browns so bad it is an all-consuming obsession with him and when he saw the game, and the series, slipping away from him his mind started to melt down a bit.

Tristan Thompson is an offensive board monster.  He is also completely inept at the line.  If he gets an offensive rebound the first thing a bench player on the floor for the Dubs should do is rush in and wrap him up.  He was 0-5 from the line last night.  He shot 61% last season and is shooting 58% in post-season.  Cleveland shot 15-26 from the line last night.  If Tristan Thompson had hit even 3 out of 5 for a season average 60% that would have made it an 8 point final score and Cleveland's play strategies in the last few minutes with GSW up 7-9 might have changed the game because it only would have been 4-6.  You run different plays if you are only down 4-6 (2 possessions for a tie, minimum, and maybe a win) with 2 minutes left than if you are down 7-9 (3 possessions).  GSW did a great job of putting the ball into Curry and Thompson's hands on inbound passes too.  Deadly frito shooters.


Bogut with 10 minutes, Varajao with 4 and Ezeli with 1.  That's 15 minutes for GSW's center corp.  Small-ball.  It must have been agony for Cav fans to see long-time Cleveland Cavalier Andy Varajao kill them last night.  3 rebounds last night, all offensive, and he just ate up clock with new GSW possessions.  The first player to play for both Finals teams in the same season.  He's probably enjoying the position his current team is in now more than if he was still with his former one.

81 fgas for GSW is a low number, but 36 of them were 3pt fgas and they hit 47%.  Curry 7-13 and Thompson 4-9.

LBJ is averaging just over 40mpg this series.  Were those blown bunnies he was missing late evidence of fatigue?  He's no spring chicken no more.

Kevin Love was effective, I thought.  He didn't get to touch the ball that much but that's not his fault.

Mozgov - Coaches DNP.  Tyronn Lue is confused what to do.  He's throwing darts and Steve Kerr is dancin' with who brung'em.  GSW is a small-ball dynamo and that's what he goes with and a bad game or two doesn't shake that belief long-term.

JR Smith 3-10 and 43 minutes.  Delly with only 5 minutes.  Lue is going with the "only Kyrie and LeBron will handle the ball" offense.

A battle in a phone booth for most of it, until it opened up to 10 in the last few minutes.


bob


.

[cowens/oldschool]

Lebron was gassed, I agree with worse, taking Love over Wiggins a huge mistake as a young talented wing is just what this team needs. Lebron era may be coming to a close as he can't dominate a 7 game series in the Finals like he used to, and what kind of offense was that down the stretch, my turn, your turn? Wiggins would have learned so much from Lebron and need his young legs on the break, Cavs can't play at fast enough pace.

[cowens/oldschool]

I hope DA thinks twice about going after Love. There is just something about that kid that is not appealing to me, I could be wrong.  I had read on a Celtic website that they probably would want Jae Crowder AND Avery
Bradley, plus the #3 pick.  Stupid deal that would be.  He is not worth that.. There are many teams that will want to include one or both of those players in a deal. I personally would not like giving up Crowder, I am a little unsure about Bradley. His defense is great, but offense disappears sometimes for games on end, Then when he finds it, he is terrific. He needs to work on that part of his game.

Oh well,  we can say what we want but Danny will do what Danny thinks is right for the team. Not much longer to wait for the draft and the stuff starts hitting the fan.

like Crowder's offense never disappears? AB's defense is also much better than Crowders.

[bobheckler]

And just like in the movie, LeBron won't catch him before he is gone with the prize.






bob


.

[RosalieTCeltics]

Crowder has more heart in one finger than I have seen from Love. To each his own with opinions, I am just giving you mine. Jae is a key not only on the floor but in the locker room. To trade him for Love is a big mistake. I am not saying that he is untouchable by any means, I just feel that that trade is not a good deal.

Just my opinion

[cowens/oldschool]

Crowder has more heart in one finger than I have seen from Love.   To each his own with opinions, I am just giving you mine. Jae is a key not only on the floor but in the locker room. To trade him for Love is a big mistake.  I am not saying that he is untouchable by any means, I just feel that that trade is not a good deal.

Just my opinion

its all good, we are in agreement, I don't like Love either

[NYCelt]

Watching this game while a big band played in the back room of the Savanna Jazz Bar (formerly Clooneys) was a lot of fun, even if the cheers from the front room did disrupt the musicians.  Smiles all around when the game ended and the band was playing "Besame Mucho" (Kiss Me A lot)...

bob


.

Bob,

No doubt about it. We all have to come out there and hang out with you.

Regards

[cowens/oldschool]

Watching this game while a big band played in the back room of the Savanna Jazz Bar (formerly Clooneys) was a lot of fun, even if the cheers from the front room did disrupt the musicians.  Smiles all around when the game ended and the band was playing "Besame Mucho" (Kiss Me A lot)...

bob


.

Bob,

No doubt about it.  We all have to come out there and hang out with you.

Regards

bobs good at hangin

[dbrown4]

There are a lot of warts coming out of this Finals series for CLE and some for GSW as well. CLE appears to be more where everyone is at fault while GSW just has some tweaking to do.

GSW seems to have this on/off switch that they have occasionally switched off this playoff series. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm stunned whenever they lose. I'm more stunned when they lose by 30+ points. After the season they had, I was initially expecting them to go 16-1 or 2. Pretty much like what CLE did for the first 3 rounds.

The problem or the beauty of their on/off switch is no one else in the league wants it on. When it's on, it is like watching the '86 Celtics or anything from Celtics 1960's. Perfectly executed professional team basketball. OKC almost caught GSW with their proverbial pants down. GSW woke up thank goodness and blessed us with more over the top basketball perfection, had a slight relapse vs. CLE in Game 3, but appears to have things in order to wrap the Back-2-Back Championships tomorrow night at home. But when the switch is off, they really do look very common, as the 30 point drubbing (not dubbing) showed Wednesday.

CLE's warts are coming out all over just like they did for us in the first round. (Seems like ages ago, doesn't it?)

Let's start with coaching, which I've talked about earlier in this thread, but Gilbert needs some serious help here. You can't have rookie NBA coaches or rookie coaches TO the NBA regardless of their credentials and expect to get passed/blow passed the Finals hump. Steve Kerr is the exception, not the rule. Steve's been around the league a long time and has been on the Jordan teams. It's very seldom if ever going to happen.

Believe it or not, I'm giving LeBron a pass here. He's phenomenal. He's doing all he can whether he takes over a game or passes it off to his teammates, he's good. Leave him alone.

Supporting cast. Kyrie. Awesome player. Lit it up for 3 quarters in Game 4. Great scorer. Amazing player. But you can't drop out in the 4th when the game is on the line. Not his fault. Lue's fault. He was gassed. Kevin Love. Whatever story was created to make it look like Love went to Lue and said I'll come off the bench, start, not play Game 4...I liked it. Love wants to win it all. If he has the sense in the heat of the battle to figure out he may be the problem and to say put me in coach where you see fit if it will help us win...I like that guy. Problem was, he wasn't the problem as Game 4 showed. The rest of their supporting cast of Thompson, Smith have been sporadic at best. With that, you get down 3-1 and on the verge of elimination.

You also get in a very dangerous zone with management if CLE bows out Monday and loses the Finals. I have been the man and I have worked for the man in my business career. When you work for the man, you can closet coach/Monday Morning Quarterback all their moves. It's fun. We all do it. "I never would've hired so-and-so. I could see that train wreck coming from a mile away!" What I have seen from management in general is that there is so much rep tape and bureaucracy involved that they wind up making the worst possible decision almost EVERY time and can't understand why it ain't working. To add insult to injury, they keep doing the same stupid thing hoping for a different result. I have many good laughs They literally go marching off in the completely wrong direction with great accuracy. That's what I fear for CLE.

To this point, it is clear the NBA Finals were the WCF this year. If CLE loses and with all the Believeland hype going into this year, etc., CLE management is going to go off he deep end and do something really stupid yet again. Don't know what, but they will be on the edge of blowing them back to the Stone Age. I can sense something dreadful is lurking, though. Just not sure about Gilbert and where his head is. I think he was bullied into LeBron coming back wasn't he? Didn't LeBron just say he was coming back to CLE? I know there was some talks behind the scenes, but who in their right mind would say No to the greatest NBA player on the planet wanting to come back home and bring your city the Championship they had so longed for? Desperation.

It's all in CLE's head now anyway. This series isn't helping them at all. They gave it their best shot in Game 3 and we should see the inevitable end tomorrow night. But as outlined above, their warts are much bigger than GSW's and you're not getting rid of them in a 7-game Finals series. One could say if the Finals end tomorrow that they have regressed since last year WITH Kyrie and Love in the line up. It will be VERY interesting as a side bar to our Danny Ainge Off Season Extravaganza what CLE does. Very interesting.

db

[cowens/oldschool]

with all due respect lets get one thing clear, the Dubs/Warriors couldn't hold the jockstrap of the 86 Celtics, you got that?

[cowens/oldschool]

they really shouldn't be put in the same sentence

[swish]

with all due respect lets get one thing clear, the Dubs/Warriors couldn't hold the jockstrap of the 86 Celtics, you got that?

cowens

I think your dead wrong on this issue. More on this tomorrow.


swish

[cowens/oldschool]

bring it on

[worcester]

Cow, one more point. Wiggins would have cost the Cavs about $12M less a season for four years than Love.

[swish]

with all due respect lets get one thing clear, the Dubs/Warriors couldn't hold the jockstrap of the 86 Celtics, you got that?

 cowens

 I realize that you are a huge fan of the Bird led 85-86 Celtics as am I.  So this is not a put down of that great club but nothing more than the opinion of a basketball fan trying to add an unbiased view of the issue. I don,t know who would win a dream match between the 2 teams but I certainly believe that the Warriors would be more than just competitive. Before dismissing the Warriors you should consider some of the changes that have taken place since that 1985-86 season that just might soften your opinion of the relative strength of the 2 teams.   Thirty years ago the NBA was nearly 100% stocked by players from North America. Now the talent pool from other countries is up to about 100 foreign players ( league total about 450) in the NBA.  Then there's the huge strides made in the art of 3 point shooting. The Celtics in 85-86 hit on 138 of 393 attempts for a .351 %. Those 393 attempts were only .048 % of their total shots taken - on the other hand the Warriors made 1077 shots on 2592 attempts for a .416%   The 2592 attempts were.316% of their total shots.
The Celtics shot .517 from 2 point range and for the warriors it was .528.

   Another major thing to consider is the great ball handling skills of the present generation. Offhand dribbling skills are off the chart.

   While the skill level of the 3 point shot is the biggest  difference between the 2 generations, running a real close 2nd is the  huge difference  in the weight of the front court players. The average weight of the front court players back in 1985-86 was 223.0 lbs ( the Celts 217 lbs). In 2015-16 it has risen to a league average of 246.0 lbs ( Golden State 242.0 lbs).Every thing considered, I for one, would not predict a Celtic blowout win over Golden State.

 PS - But I do give those 85-86 Celts a huge edge over any of the Russell years Celtic teams.

swish

[worcester]

" But I do give those 85-86 Celts a huge edge over any of the Russell years Celtic teams."
Swish - that's heresy! I'd give the 1963 Celts team an advantage at point guard - Cousy over DJ, Center - Russ over Chief and Dr. Scholl, and shooting guard - Sam Jones, Hondo, and Frank Ramsey over Danny Ainge, etc. Tommy was no Larry Bird at SF, but he was no slouch either. KC was a helluva backup at PG as was Willie Naulls at SF.

Huge edge over the 85-86 team, no. Reverse holds true as well. Ditto for 86 Celts over the GSW. Huge edge? No.

The 1965 Celts were pretty damn good too 62-18 record.

[cowens/oldschool]

swish I'm not gonna make a big deal of ALL this, somewhere during the Thunder series I was describing how we could beat them, I hold firm to those beliefs.....we would have given them alot more trouble than the Thunder thats for sure.

[swish]

cowens

Fair enough. I understand.

swish

[RosalieTCeltics]

Thanks Worcester, those 60's teams just seem to get lost in the shuffle when talking about Great teams. Look at how many HOF players there were on that 65 team. I just won't argue about this because I am such a fan of the Bill Russell led teams and Bill himself.
He was the greatest player I ever watched, period. He changed the game of basketball.

Just one person's opinion. If Sam were here there would be a major discussion on this topic!!!

[beat]

Those mid 70's teams were no slouch either

[cowens/oldschool]

Sam is here, thats why lookin for a fight I got really mellow, and swish went easy too, those were fun debates back in the recent day on greatest Celtic teams of all time....we all have our favorites and they all are great teams and were the greatest teams of their era.

I just want to add a point or 2, Thunder gave Dubs all they could handle, using their size to their advantage in a few blowouts leading to a 3-1 lead, we wouldn't blow a lead like that, the 86 Celtics knew how to close games and series, big difference in the clutch gene of Larry Bird and Durant. Another advantage is how much more skilled our bigs are than the Thunder and they gave Warriors all they could handle, our bigs would put on a clinic.

[cowens/oldschool]

Those mid 70's teams were no slouch either

ya know I was thinking about that when both teams were going small, with Green vs Thompson at the 5. I was thinking how Dave Cowens could play today and kick the shit out of those guys.

[RosalieTCeltics]

Boy, this game is unbelievable. Klay Thompson is going crazy and Irving is matching him. He has hit some bombs!!

I wish Mark Jackson would just shut up, how does a fired coach get to be the color guy on these games. Sometimes I swear he is rooting for the other team. Ha Ha.

This is one hell of a game right now. I don't know if they will be able to keep up this shooting, but db did we call this or what????

[Sponsored content]