Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

[Sam]

LACeltFan,

I'm not saying their identity is now firm. But I'm seeing the starters (at full strength) develop a "personality" of variety (lack of strategic predictability), sharing (5-player scoring attack), and poise. I'm seeing the bench become an agent of energy and disruption. I'm seeing the defense reemerge as the primary instrument for turnarounds.

With Rondo becoming an increasingly more potent catalyst, his sharing of leadership with The Three Amigos can free them a little more for focusing on their difference-making roles. So the team's identity is very gradually shifting not only executionally but also in terms of player stature.

I could name 20 needs for improvement without stopping to take a breath, and those needs would begin with the imperative of identifying and cultivating (as the wounded return) the most productive role(s) for every player. There's absolutely a long way to go because the current situation is only a trend and not a done deal. But I believe the die is now directionally cast.

Sam

[LACELTFAN]

LACeltFan,

I'm not saying their identity is now firm. But I'm seeing the starters (at full strength) develop a "personality" of variety (lack of strategic predictability), sharing (5-player scoring attack), and poise. I'm seeing the bench become an agent of energy and disruption. I'm seeing the defense reemerge as the primary instrument for turnarounds.

With Rondo becoming an increasingly more potent catalyst, his sharing of leadership with The Three Amigos can free them a little more for focusing on their difference-making roles. So the team's identity is very gradually shifting not only executionally but also in terms of player stature.

I could name 20 needs for improvement without stopping to take a breath, and those needs would begin with the imperative of identifying and cultivating (as the wounded return) the most productive role(s) for every player. There's absolutely a long way to go because the current situation is only a trend and not a done deal. But I believe the die is now directionally cast.

Sam

Sam,
I'm hoping that the longer the team works together in it's present form (plus Garnett and Daniels), the more it will gravitate towards those identities that are productive and adjustments in games will be quicker. Getting everyone healthy and playing certainly makes this easier. I think Doc has done an pretty decent job of putting together units, when all is said and done. It's not an easy task, but it helps that he has a fair amount of talent around him.

[Sam]

Last night's game is pretty easy to analyze. First one starts with a list of the many things that did NOT significantly separate the teams
or were actually in favor of the Celtics:

Fast break points: Celtics 22 (I believe their second-highest total of the season), Hawks 15
Points in the paint: Hawks 34, Celtics 30
Field goal attempts: Hawks 77, Celtics 76
Made free throws: Celtics 14, Hawks 10
Assist-to-field-goal %: Celtics 71%, Hawks 66%
Offensive rebounds: Hawks 10, Celtics 9
Defensive rebounds: Hawks 29, Celtics 27
Turnovers: Celtics 14, Hawks 15
Players in double figures: Hawks 6, Celtics 5

Now the difference in the game: the Hawks shot dramatically better than the Celtics (49.4% to 40.8%). The important question is "Why?" Also pretty simple.

1. The Celtics offense feeds off its defense.

2. Last night's Celtics defense was a step slow. The rotations were either nonexistent or sluggish, with the result that the Hawks got wide open jumpers or threes; and it got worse as the game wore on.

3. The sluggishness disease spread to the offense. One of the reasons why Sheed missed so much was probably related to weak legs during a 39-minute stint. Paul Pierce was the high-scorer in 40 minutes despite being questionable at the outset because of a touch of whatever's going around on the team. Rondo and Perk recorded double-doubles, but they were "quiet" ones that failed to galvanize the efforts of a seriously shorthanded team. The number of lazy, low-probability passes was amazing. This was clearly a team struggling to maintain some semblance of being in sync against an opponent that's a difficult matchup under the best of conditions.

That's about all I have to say concerning the game. But I'm repeating something I posted elsewhere, because I believe it's a perspective that's vitally important to consider at this point in the team's sputtering evolution.

OF COURSE the Celtics are not doing what it takes to win a championship. This is not the team (not even close) that will be competing successfully for a championship. It's beginning to look as though the same could be said for the Lakers, and their sick list is MUCH shorter.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING as "injuries or not." Injuries ARE. They can't be dismissed with the stroke of a few keys. There is NOT ONE GAME of this season at which the Celtics have not had injuries to key personnel. NOT ONE!

When a team is constantly incurring injuries or illness that have been deactivating (on average) three key core members per
game; and when the absences have involved a rotating cast of characters; it's difficult-to-impossible to help the ragtag remnants to
develop the rotations and systems that help them play at their most productive. It's tantamount to miraculous—and testimony to some pretty darned good coaching—that they've struggled along with their current record.

Here's one tiny example (there are many) of how it works. What the team misses most about KG's absence is his interior
defense, right? Not necessarily. Okay, his timely 18-footers, right? Not necessarily. Okay, his intensity on the floor, right? Not
necessarily.

No, it's entirely possible that what they miss most about KG is the fact that he is their defensive floor general. He must
be the most constantly vocal defensive player in the league, and he understands and anticipates defensive flow much like Cousy was always
three or four steps ahead offensively. Sheed can do some of that, but he should be focusing his efforts on shepherding the bench—which, by the way, is in shreds as far as continuity of chemistry-building is concerned.

For better or worse, this is the kind of team that the old advertising slogan (perhaps by General Electric) used to describe: "Better life through chemistry." It's not a team with dominant individuals who just seek to dominate all the more (shooting 40% of their team's shots) when teammates go missing. It's a team that relies on teamwork more than athleticism...on synergy more than brute
force. It's therefore the type of team that takes an inordinate hit when it's constrained from building that chemistry and integrating
reinforcements into that chemistry. On the Celtics, the absence of one player negatively influences other players in a much more pervasive
manner than on many teams.

There will be times when, in depleted condition, they will look old and tired because they are only a portion of what they are meant to be. There have almost certainly been times when they FELT old and tired but persevered and won anyway. That is their character. But, as another tiny example, to expect Sheed to play 35 and 39 minutes at peak performance 48 hours apart is unrealistic. They're doing the best then can with what they can muster.

Here's another little tidbit. For each team in the league, 82games.com displays the 10 player combinations with the most minutes played
together. For the Celtics, combinations NOT involving both KG and Daniels comprise only 5% of all 10 Celtics combinations (of which the
smallest number of minutes played together is 19). In other words, not one ragtag Celtics combination pressed into action because of all the injuries has played as many as 19 minutes together. That's chemistry? It is to laugh.

Projecting the Celtics' championship chances based on observing a shell of the team they could be by playoff time is not appropriate. Not at all. The present and the future are not synonymous.

GO CELTICS!

Sam

[dboss]

Sam

I was waiting for your post game review.

I guess when you look at the stats there was not a lot that separated the teams except in FG %.

The Celtics were definitely a step slow on defense but I am wondering why the bench did not play more minutes.

As far as Rasheed's 1-8 shooting, it is symptomatic of what we have seen from him all year. He is NOT a good 3 point shooter and he takes too many three point shots given his 3 pt shooting percentage. He has yet to consistently do what is needed on offense. I like his rebounding and his post defense. I like his ability to shoot over just about anyone when he posts up but I hate it when he launches 3 point shots.

This is a veteran player that knows how to play but is he willing to curb his appetite for taking 3 point shots for the good of the team? That question has not been answered yet. He can be the focal point of our offense for the 2nd unit but not given the way he plays on offense.

dboss

[bobheckler]

The Hawks came out with energy in the 3rd quarter, the Celts did not. They made a run in the 4th, but dug themselves in too deep in the 3rd. Furthermore, their shooting was ice cold and all from the outside.

Not to make excuses, but It'd have been interesting to see how we'd have done if we had KG playing. Not as many dunks by Josh Smith, I'd venture. KG has one of the best +/- in the league. Having TA play would have helped us as well against Joe Johnson.

Perk did very well. So did Horford.
Rondo did well. So did Bibby. I thought Rondo walked the ball up too much in the second half. The Celts didn't begin their offensive sets until there were about 16-17 seconds left on the shot clock. A little more hustle coming upcourt, to begin the set with 18 seconds left, is another pass.

What a shame, especially on a night where the Lakers lost their second in a row.

bob

[dboss]

bob

I think in last night's game TA was missed as much as KG because it was Jamal Crawford who came off the bench to beat the Celtics. I thought that would have been a good matchup. Let's see how things go Monday when the go at it again

dboss

[Sam]

If one can overlook, for a moment, the hurt of a loss, this is a very interesting and instructive time to be a Celtics fan.

I was just board-talking with our South Dakota board member about what are the causes and what are the effects of the Celtics' problems. He seems to feel that an inherent tendency toward lack of sufficient effort is a pervasive cause of problems. I feel it's more of the effect of a cumulative debilitation (physical and mental) which is ultimately rooted in injuries.

In the case of the Hawks game, the bench didn't match up well with the athletic Hawks. Scal and Baby weren't going to get that many minutes. Eddie against Joe Johnson? The only reason Eddie got 15 minutes was because some of them were at the point.

I understand why many people draw the direct conclusion that Walker and Giddens are young and have athleticism, so they should have played against the young, athletic Hawks. I personally think their inexperience would have been exposed. But, more important, a recent lack of cohesion among the Celtics makes them very vulnerable, and I believe the addition of either kid would have made it worse.

Sheed's a quandary...mainly what his role should be on this team. I had thought that, in his bench role, he was beginning to get the idea that he should predominately be a low post offensive player. It almost seems that, with the starters, he has regressed, as if he's once again beginning the process of feeling out a role.

The starters need Sheed's height under the circumstances. But, in the low post, he'd be redundant with Perk. So I think he becomes a de facto floor spacer (along with Ray), while Paul focused more on posting up and going to the hoop. Thus, I believe he's somewhat misplaced with the starters (and playing too many minutes too) but that he'll resume a more productive low post leadership role with the bench when KG returns.

Just one more way that, when the Celts are at full-strength (or even close to it), I believe they'll use the remainder of the season to seek their proper level in complementing one another; and THEN we'll see how an elite TEAM really functions.

Sam

[Sam]

This was a legitimate wire-to-wire Sunday afternoon win for the Celtics. They raced out to a 10-0 lead, let it get a little close (4
points) near the end, and rode a pivotal steal by Sheed to a reasonably comfortable victory.

More than anything else, this game was the story of Mr. Inside (Sheed) and Mr. Outside (also Sheed), and watch out for Mr. In-between
(Rondo). I believe Sheed's problem is not shooting too many threes. It's shooting too many BAD threes, most especially when he's not set.
He did take 7 three-pointers in this one (swishing 5), but they came within the natural flow of the game, as he, Ray and House took
turns spacing the floor beautifully. I wish Sheed would watch a tape of his performance in this game before he takes the floor for every game. This is how he should be playing. Sheed also went 4 for 8 on closer-in shots. He also hit all 6 of his free throws...just canning
everything. On his best days, Sheed can drive an opponent nuts with his hide-and-seek, in-and-out game. Moreover, he was a giant on
defense (including that big steal and two blocks), and he garnered 8 rebounds. And he did all of this with exactly zero turnovers.

Rondo had his third triple-double of the year, with 22 points, 13 assists and 10 rebounds. But I most enjoyed watching him on defense.
The guy has flypaper for hands. It seems that, when he gets a hand within 6 inches of the ball, it just gravitates to him. Four steals today. He also made some nice open-court passes and nearly every conceivable type of shot (one hook, one banked three-pointer, whew!).

Perk, Ray, Paul and Eddie also scored in double figures for the Celtics. They continued their recent trend of elevating their
transition game, with 17 fast break points (although Toronto had 26). Toronto (mostly Bosh) also dominated inside, winning the battle of
points in the paint, 44-36). The Celts outscored the Raptors 33-24 from beyond the arc, and that was pretty much the difference in this
one.

Glen Davis played a good rebounding role in the second half after doing nothing earlier. He has developed a hasty habit of tossing up jumpers while moving forward (he NEVER NEVER makes one of those), to go along with telegraphing his layups to the extent that they're usually blocked. Tony Allen did play something like 5 minutes and may not yet have his "sea legs" after his flu experience. Big minutes for the starters again—44 and 43 for Rondo and Ray respectively and the mid-30s for the other three.

Not a perfect game. The Celtics defense was decent, but a strong perimeter game still causes them problems; and the rotations were really slow on some drives by Calderon and Jack. However, the basic formula of geting a strong start and keeping the foot on the throttle is something I find really appealing.

Here's wishing the Celts good luck against the Hawks tomorrow night.

Sam

[sinus007]

Sam,
Thanks for the summary. One correction: RR = 13 assists.
Also, my observation (didn't watch the whole game: was being disappointed by Pats) was that the flow of the game was even, i.e. no nap time in the 3rd quarter. What do you think?

Thank you very much,
AK

[beat]

Sam & all

Unable to watch all but the last 5-6 minutes today and I got a little concerned but in the end it was a let the clock run out win. I really don't care if it's four points or forty (although the occasional 40 is nice)

Some good news my step-dad is back in rehab from another stint in the hospital, took my mom over for a bit this pm, I must say that he seemed (and looked) the best he's been in at least 2 months.

As for Marcus and hoops there is not much to say. He gets a few minutes here and there. Not sure why he doesn't get more. I have spoken to the coach briefly and let it go at that. Just seems to me when he is out there things run so much smoother. Marcus has accepted it for now. But with the 3 kids ahead of him moving up to varsity next year, he should see a lot more playing time next season.

In the game yesterday he did make a key steal and took a charge both in the 4th quarter of a close game. Unfortunately he lifted a bit on a headfake and a kid went around him for an easy shot and another time he gave up the baseline much to easy. He does need to work on his foot work on defense much more. We did end up winning by 2.

Sarah started he new job today at a local pharmacy (Kinney's) while she goes to college at JCC (Starts there in a week or so).

As for the C's against Atlanta, if the Hawks plays like they did against the Hornets we'll win going away but something tells me they think they have our number. This is definately an important game for mid January.

Temp is finally in the 20's. Perhaps mid 30's by mid week, friggin heat wave, maybe Al Gore is right after all........................................(naw)

beat

[Sam]

Sinus,

Thanks. I copy all the stats by hand before writing the post, and I read my "3" as a "5." Thanks to you, I've changed it.

Beat,

Wow, a lot of news. I'm sorry about Marcus' situation. Could this be a period when baseball will become even more of a preference? The results in baseball seem so consistently great.

Great news about your father. I'm sure it's a welcome relief for your mother to see him in better shape. Just a very tough time of life.

As for my friend, Sarah, please wish her the best at both the pharmacy and the junior college. We have a friend who just wasn't quite ready for a four-year school, and she will finish junior college in May and will then be ready to go on to the last two years in college. Different approaches for different people.

Sounds as though the New Year is starting on a positive note for your family. I hope it continues throughout the year.

Sam

[Sam]

The Hawks beat the Celtics for the second time in four days. The story of this game can be summed up pretty much in two factoids:

1. In addition to being without Marquis Daniels, the Celts were also denied the services of two of their three legitimate big men: KG (finally starting to recondition himself) and Sheed (bad foot identified 30 minutes before game time. The limited time being given to Tony Allen (8 minutes in this one) also suggests that he's not yet right.

2. The depleted squad, returning God knows when from Toronto on a back-to-back, just plain wore out. Note the progression of the scores by quarter:

1 Q: Celts won it by 10 points
2 Q: Hawks won it by 1 point
3 Q: Hawks won it by 6 points
4 Q: Hawks won it by 9 points

With respect to point #2, note also that the Celtics had 7 fast break point in the first half and 2 in the second half. Conversely, the Hawks had 5 in the first half and 10 i in the second half. Note also that the Celtics had 9 more turnovers than the Hawks (16 to 9), reflecting greater sloppiness and less disruptive defense than is often their trademark. Note also that the Celtics shot 15 fewer free throws than the Hawks despite scoring 14 more points in the paint than the Hawks. A small portion of the free throw differential was due to some loss of composure by the Celtics coaching staff (Doc got thrown out and Eastman also had a tech); but it was mostly caused by more slashing to the hole by the Hawks versus more jumpers by the Celts.

After a quick start, the main reason the Celtics hung on as they did was that they outshot the Hawks by 10% from the field and 8% from the free throw line.

In terms of individuals, the three bright lights were Rondo, Scal and Davis. Rondo did his dervish act in the first half before basically disappearing over the final 24 as he played a grand total of 45 minutes, scoring 26 with 7 dimes. Scal and Davis precisely split the PF job (21 minutes for Scal, 27 for Glen). Scal was luminescent in the first half, going three for three from behind the arc while putting the defensive clamps on Josh Smith and grabbing 5 boards. Then he got into foul trouble, and Davis submitted his best game yet, with 13 points and 4 rebounds. But, in addition to Rondo's nearly wire-to-wire stint, the other three starters each played about 42 minutes. There was just no gas left in the Celtics' tank as Joe Johnson (on his way to 38 points) and Crawford (scoring his usual 17 off the bench) proved to be fourth quarter assassins.

I'm cutting this summary short because there's not a lot more to say concerning this one game. I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity to comment on the recent trend toward analyzing the Celtics as though the first half of this season were somehow definitive in terms of the Celtics-Hawks rivalry and the Celtics' future chances.

The Hawks have learned how to beat a shorthanded, older Celtics team. Wear them down. Congratulations to the Hawks for
doing a professional job of capitalizing on this hopefully temporary Celts' weakness twice in four days.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with what will happen if the two teams should meet in the playoffs when, instead of experiencing weakness through a dramatically shortened veteran rotation, the Celtics will hopefully have exceptional strength through an extremely deep veteran rotation—AND will hopefully have had time for all that strength to jell. The first half of this game demonstrated what can happen between even a depleted Celtics squad and the Hawks when the Celtics are NOT exhausted.

IF the Celtics are as shorthanded in the playoffs as they currently are, I'd expect the Hawks (and many other teams) to prevail against them. Duh! Otherwise, trying to project what will happen if the Celtics are even reasonably close to full strength, based on what's now happening when they're absolutely shredded, is beyond inadvisable.

What transpires when a team's in a cohesion-development stage that is constantly interrupted by lack of key important pieces is absolutely no predictor of what will happen when the cohesion has actually occured. At that point, what had been mistakenly considered by some to be lassitude will very likely to be revealed as having been a product of confusion, frustration,
trial and error, need for incessant adaptation, etc., etc., etc.

Whereas this team was supposed to be integrating its new parts and moving forward, this has been very largely a season of adjustment and survival. Even during the period when you claim the "Big Three and Rondo" were together (and they're hardly the only important pieces on this team), they were hampered in their cohesion by not being able to rely on a consistent performance by KG as he fought his way back. Then, just when he seemed to be mostly his old self (at least on offense), he disappeared. And so it goes.

Constant change is wearing on a team psychologically as well as physically; and it's especially true when there's a larger evolution occurring simultaneously—the gradual passing of the torch of leadership on the team. That doesn't happen smoothly overnight just as one's children don't usually break into a dead run from the crawling stage. (My younger one actually did, and the only thing that would stop her was walls. Maybe a pretty decent, albeit scary, analogy, now that I think of it.)

And it explains the inconsistency in their performances, ranging from inspiring to deflating. Every night, there's a new makeshift rotational scheme depending on the injury du jour. A guy scores 29 in a near-perfect game as he seems to be gaining a groove with the starters, and then he's suddenly not available 30 minutes before the next night's game. Give me a break!

What this team most needs now is patience and support. I personally find it exciting that, even in the depths of ragtag-itis and exhaustion, they still come up with some positive glimmers. Such as Glen Davis' play last night. Not perfect, but a definite advance over what he had been showing. Such as Scal's reminder to us that he can be more than a serviceable emergency replacement when given extended minutes within a combination of savvy teammates.

Otherwise, I'm frankly not interested in worrying about factors that are the products of adverse circumstances and NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST decent predictors for the future. Anyone's certainly welcome to post civilly about them (my moderator self speaking), and their concerns are respected (my personal self speaking), but they really carry relatively little weight in my own thoughts
about this team's future (my basketball self speaking).

Sam

[cowens/oldschool]

shothanded,back to back-we faded miserably down stretch,should have used bench way more throughout game,bad usage of bench.....with House being too small,TA still under the weather was perfect time to give Walker a shot at Joe Johnson,get up in his face make him work for a 5-7 min stretch,hope we can rest Pierce and Ray alot vs Nets so they'll have something in tank for Bulls.

[swedeinestonia]

I dont know why they get so stagnant on offense at times.

Good things happens when Rondo has the ball and stays aggressive, either he blows past his guy for a layup or someone helps out and Rondo finds the open man.

Did not really seem like it was Rondo being tired either, he just did not have confidence to hold the ball and make things happen or something.

[Sam]

Swede,

I do believe Rondo was exhausted. And let's not forget that he's recently had hamstring problems (and played huge minutes with them). I'm not trying to make excuses, but I do believe that some degree of debilitation on the back-to-back had a bearing on Rondo's second half performance.

However, that was certainly not the only problem. The defense of the entire team was less intense in the second half, and there's no question in my mind that (regardless of the reasons or the culprits) the whole technical foul epidode served as a gratuitous punch in the stomach by playing right into the momentum being gathered by the Hawks.

The Celtics stood around a lot in the second half. (Very likely fatigue played a role.) There were numerous occasions on which they weren't well-spaced, which affected their ball movement considerably. And their default (as it often is) was Pierce; and his default was iso ball; and iso ball can be relatively easy to defend if it becomes utterly predictable.

Let's hope for better things, including no "coasting," against the Nets. I actually enjoy watching the Nets center play, and I hope the Celtics don't also fall into the trap of watching him play well.

Sam

[swedeinestonia]

I guess you could be right.

Seemed like substitutions did not work right after Doc was ejected either.

I know Doc like his veterans but I think he has to understand that putting in Tony, Giddens and so on for 5 minutes is not going to kill the team, it will make them stronger.

Scalabrine played great defense when he was in but I dont remember seeing him much in second half. They could have changed Tony for Ray and then used Scalabrine for some spacing (he was hot from 3 too).

Just pure speculations from an "outsider" though. I was not raised watching basketball so I learn from watching the games, relating to other sports and hanging around here

[Sam]

Swede,

I don't think throwing inexperienced kids into a hotly contested fray would have helped. In just two or three minutes, the Hawks could have taken sufficient advantage of Giddens or Walker to gain even more momentum than they wound up with.

I do agree, however, about Tony and Scal. I have to assume that Tony was still feeling effects from the flu; he didn't seem his usual dynamic (for better or worse) self during the 8 minutes he played.

Scal started the second half and left when he got his fourth foul. I thought he should have returned to play some defense and space the floor while giving Glen Davis and/or Perk a breather. Who cared if he fouled out as long as that mission was accomplished? I just believe the replacement coaching duo took the conservative route; and, in a game against a "pace team," that just debilitated all of the Celts.

Just an unfortunate combination of events and a good reason to follow your advice to move on.

Sam

[dboss]

Poor coaching lost this game beginning with Doc rivers losing his cool and getting tossed. That changed the momentum of the game. It's not like we were down and we needed a reason to play harder.

secondly the sub coaches are stupid. Why play the startersd the entire 4th quarter. They simply ran out of gas.

Scals had his best game of the year and did not get a sniff in the 2nd half. No TA and no Willimas. If you are not willing to or know how to use the bench than you are not a very good coach.

Perkins needs some stickem on his sneakers...he was ice skating out there all night long.

Rondo deferred too much in the 2nd half to PP.

conclusion...The Hawks 3-0 record is a paper tiger!

dboss

[RosalieTCeltics]

I wonder what everyone would have said if it was Red Auerbach getting tossed in this game? Sometimes, the coach just feels it is necessary. However, after reading Doc's explanation of his tirade, he didn't really think he was fighting for the wrong thing, he just did it too violently. I will agree that this action changed the Celtics way of playing. It became a one on one
game, they got away from their game plan and just lost it all, AFTER Doc's expulsion.

They can rave all they want, but this was a team without it's defensive leader, his replacement, and a defensive specialist who would have played
Johnson much better than Ray or Paul. I will put this game in the back of my mind and hope for a rematch when they are at full strength. Just my opinion.

[MDCelticsFan]

dboss: Nothing paper or phony about the Hawks. They are a young hungry team on the rise whose very best days are ahead of them. They are rapidly getting a sense for winning in the clutch against the Celtics and other traditionally elite teams. The C's are too dependent on players who have logged to many minutes and miles on their bodies which are now breaking down. The Hawks are now believing in themselves and trusting each other. The team chemistry with this group is good for the next 5 years minimum. The C's need to restructure and re-tool around Rondo, Perk, and possibly Big Baby, and hopefully Bill Walker (if he ever gets any run). The longer the Celts wait the tougher it will be to become relavent again with a relatively youthful core of players!-MD.

[Sam]

Wow!

[mrkleen09]

dboss: Nothing paper or phony about the Hawks. They are a young hungry team on the rise whose very best days are ahead of them. They are rapidly getting a sense for winning in the clutch against the Celtics and other traditionally elite teams. The C's are too dependent on players who have logged to many minutes and miles on their bodies which are now breaking down. The Hawks are now believing in themselves and trusting each other. The team chemistry with this group is good for the next 5 years minimum. The C's need to restructure and re-tool around Rondo, Perk, and possibly Big Baby, and hopefully Bill Walker (if he ever gets any run). The longer the Celts wait the tougher it will be to become relavent again with a relatively youthful core of players!-MD.

So you are suggesting we break up a team who in spite of massive injuries still has the 2nd best record in the NBA?

Should we do it now and throw in towel this season – or just wait till after we win banner #18 in June?

[Sam]

Mrkleen,

Please be reasonable. Any team with a combination of veterans and injuries should be broken up—and the sooner the better.

Kobe has a bad finger and a bad back. Pau Gasol has played in only 58% of the Lakers' games this season. Everyone knows that Derek Fisher has made application to an assisted living facility. Ron Artest is age 30, has endured a whopping 22,000+ minutes over 12 seasons of very rough play, and has already missed a number of games this season due to injury. I heard Odom swallowed a lollipop stick sideways last night.

I therefore nominate the Lakers as the most appropriate team to be broken up first, and I'd suggest they try to find a way to do so before this season's playoffs in order to avoid the rush of other contenders (including the Celtics) to do the same as soon as they encounter the slightest hint of adversity.

Moreover, I feel the Celtics should renounce the titles won in 1967-68 and 1968-69 because they were an old, beaten-up team that had no right to win. Henry Finkel, the rebuilder and savior, should have been brought on board much sooner than he was. Since Bill Walton was living on borrowed time in 1985-86, every good thing he did for that championship team should be stricken from the records, and THAT
championship should be renounced too.

Now that I think of it, Bob Cousy was getting old when he retired. He fell down for no apparent reason in his final playoff game. He should
have been euthanized on the spot, and all claim to that 1963 title should be transferred to the Lakers.

I'm also in favor of instituting a ceiling of age 28 in the NBA. Any player who will turn 29 during a given season should not be allowed to play that season for reasons of senior liability and, in fact, should be taken out and shot in the back pasture (otherwise known as the ass).

Woe is me. Woe is me. Woe is me. Here I've picked this dismal season in which to start a Boston Celtics message board. I had been led to
believe they actually had strength in depth, but now I discover it was all a house of cards. Apparently their injured players will not even be
allowed to recuperate by virtue of a proclamation by Old Man Stern—part of a conspiracy against the Celtics that also has all the NBA zebras slipping hemlock into the Celtics' Gatorade while everyone's distracted by some guy named Gino who's really Andrew Toney (aka "The Boston Strangler" or "McDastardly") in disguise.

In a related announcement, there will be a Celtics Board Party next April 1. It will be held in Jonestown, Guyana. It would be
helpful if attendees would express their preferred Kool-aid flavors in advance.

Me? Oh, I'm planning to root root root for the Celtics against the Nets. For some of us older, misinformed people, I guess old habits die hard.

Sam

[steve3344]

Sam - Ron Artest is not 33 as you stated. He just turned 30 last November. And is playing in his 11th season, not his 15th.

[Sam]

Thanks Steve. I counted the seasons on Basketball Reference, but because he played with multiple teams in some seasons, he took up 15 lines in their table. I've changed the figures It's actually the minutes that count most.

Sam

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