Re: Celtics Post-Game Thread (Collection of past threads)

by **Matty** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:07 am

kelly i had questions about orlando following the loss of hedo and the addition of carter.. add to that the early season loss of lewis and i was sure they'd start off weak..

right now they're doing very well and still missing a vital piece, once their all back together, their gonna be scary... it'll be a tough battle on the 20th

by **Matty** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:08 am

Sam wrote:Man, the Lakers are really lacking both poise and smarts. I can't wait for the Celtics' bench to face the Lakers' bench.

but they do have kome and the kardashions... jocolor

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:09 am

Matty wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:.....who woulda thought the Mavs D would shutdown the vaunted Lakers?wait till we get a piece of them.

naw, no peice, we'll take the hole kit'an'kaboodle of them, peices is what will be left... im calling it

theres no question in my mind we got the Lakers no this year,I don't know of Vince Carters durability for long playoff haul,only player more brittle than VC is Artest,everytime Lakers started to make a run,who was killing their own team?hes already in playoff form.....with a healthy KG,plus now Sheed,SW and Quis we got so much more firepower than Lakers,I'm seein 86 all over again.

by **Matty** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:21 am

Cow,

its funny u mention 86, during tonights game my mind went to something i saw recently about the 1986 season, someone made the comment that in 86, '' You just knew that the title was ours"

i was just a bit too young to truely apreciate what 86 was all about, but this is reminding more and more of 08.. but more so.. i think we all knew 08 was going to be special, maybe because it was all so new, so soon after the 24 losses, the loss of Red.. the lack of faith the media had in us all year.. but we knew.. we knew that something was going to make that season special.. when we won the title, none of us were surprised..

my early on, 3 game feeling is, that title is ours once more, is not that i expect it to happen, merely waiting... i just know.. ya know

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:39 am

In all the years I have followed the Celtics, good times and bad, I never remember hearing the team being booed. Even during the 18 straight game loss season, and they had something to boo. Celtic fans have endured some of the most terrible basketball, but never gave up hoping for the next win.
Even the Cav's fans were booing the other night. These people cannot call themselves true fans of whatever team they are watching.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:52 am

Matty wrote:Cow,

its funny u mention 86, during tonights game my mind went to something i saw recently about the 1986 season, someone made the comment that in 86, '' You just knew that the title was ours"

i was just a bit too young to truely apreciate what 86 was all about, but this is reminding more and more of 08.. but more so.. i think we all knew 08 was going to be special, maybe because it was all so new, so soon after the 24 losses, the loss of Red.. the lack of faith the media had in us all year.. but we knew.. we knew that something was going to make that season special.. when we won the title, none of us were surprised..

my early on, 3 game feeling is, that title is ours once more, is not that i expect it to happen, merely waiting... i just know.. ya know

Bro this years team can win with the Big 3 getting much less overall minutes and having to rely on the Big 3's maximum efforts less,08 team couldn't do that.Were deeper with the new additions and Perk and Rondo are now 2 years better into their growth,defensively we smother everything inside and out,name a team that has close to our 4 defensive bigs than KG,Perk,Sheed and SW,who has found his niche faster than anyone could have imagined.No one player has to carry this team,wave after wave methodically beats up on you,then theres that part of game you crack and were up 26-28.Sheed is tailor made for subbing and playing with KG and Perk.Love that Quis can patiently probe and pass or finish further putting pressure on an opponent,hes such a good ballhandler,giving us another wing dimension that flows with our wings and bigs.....what great passing,so many open lanes,we've gelled alot faster than I thought.
Want to get a good laugh?Look up Artest's line in the boxscore tonite.....and this guy only plays 60-65 games a year.Good move Dr Buss.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:29 am

I believe that this team can surpass the l986 team if they all stay healthy, and I am a big fan of that team. They were a great combination of players also, starting with their BIG 3, then Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, and a supporting cast with the greatest player being Bill Walton. Watching Walton play on this team was pure heaven. Now we have Wallace, who is not quite the passer that Walton was, but a great , great addition to compliment our 'BIG 3" now. I am truly beginning to wonder if this team will surpass that team and go to the head of the class. I know it is early, so we shouldn't even be talking about these things, it is a long season, but it is impossible not to dream of what might come.

by **Sam** Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:21 am

Cow,

Artest's line is only part of the story last night. I won't go into great detail because Pau was out, and that obviously changes the dynamic of that team...and especially a bench that didn't look at all good. Moreover, it often takes a particularly long time for a strong personality like Artest to blend into a new setting with another strong personality.

Suffice it to say that I'm much happier with the way the Celtics' new additions are finding roles that help the Celtics win than Mr. Artest is doing for the Lakers.

That having been said, the Lakers do have a good coach (he said grudgingly), and they'll certainly regroup; and 96% of the season remains to be played. I still feel they'll be there strong at the end. But, based SOLELY on the early going, there have already been sobering results for three of the four most heralded Celtics challengers (Lakers, Spurs, Cavs). The fourth (Magic) have performed well despite the Carter setback, which I hope will be only temporary.

And meanwhile, our boys are rolling along and are certainly not close to cruise control. In fact, I bet they'd say they're no more than 70% of where they need to be. There's very little not to love about this team. I just pray for continued good health.

Sam

by **Sam** Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:02 am

I thought I’d add a few reflections based on stats. They’re not solely on last night’s game per se. Rather they’re observations on what seem to be some continuing early patterns for this team.

In five of the nine statistical categories shown in our “Advanced Celtics Stats 018” thread, the Celtics have consistently been outpacing opponents by substantial margins:

• Enabling chemistry

So far this season, 75% of the Celtics’ field goals have come off assists. I believe anything more than 67% makes them unbeatable; and 50% is the norm for a lot of teams. Much of this phenomenon is obviously due to the fact that Rondo has been other-worldly in his ability to see the floor, thread the passes, and direct the pace. I’ve never cared that much about his scoring from the floor, as I believe the first, second and third functions of a PG are to distribute the ball. And he has greatly improved his ball distribution even in the half court (where he was no better than ordinary as recently as during parts of last season.

Assists, of course, are only one indicator of team chemistry. Credit also goes to the much more effective use of picks than I recall in the past; more movement without the ball; and some effective halfcourt plays that have been installed by Doc (most especially the high screen series and many more pick-and-rolls than in the past). Moreover, the “assist bug” is pervasive throughout the team. The assist-to-field goal percentage is 79% for the starters and 67% for the bench players.

• Arc contribution

This is the one stat that both elates and worries me at the same time. One-third (32.4%) of the Celtics’ shots this season have been three-point attempts. And they’ve been falling at a 44% clip, which is very exciting and has certainly stretched leads dramatically.

But depending so much on the three-ball can lead to bad habits, which eventually could come up to bite the Celts. Consider the breakdown of the Celtics’ and opponents’ field goal points so far this season:

…...….....Teams…….....…Celtics...Opponents

Points in the paint.…..……28% ……….42%
Points from mid-range…..40…………..46
Points from the arc……....32……………12

The lack of enemy threes can be traced to great perimeter defense by the Celtics as well as some fortunate wide-open misses. Opponents have been shooting the three-ball with a 19% success rate. At some point, some team will shoot a more normal percentage.

At some point, the Celtics will cool off from the arc. When those two points converge (vs. Orlando perhaps?), the Celtics could be in trouble. With all the versatility, energy and chemistry the Cs are displaying, I’d like to feel comfortable that they had a more predictably dependable game in the paint to which they could divert in such cases. Perhaps they do and it just hasn’t been unveiled. But my personal jury’s out on this one.

• Defensive alertness

This stat relates mainly to gambles taken and gambles won. As an example, when a player reaches in, he might come up with a steal gamble won) or a foul (gamble lost). When Perk leaves his feet for a block, he may succeed (gamble won) or commit a foul (gamble lost). I use the word “alertness” because I think alertness is required in making judgment calls about when to take gambles. And, so far, the Celtics are winning the battle of the judgment calls by a wide margin. I think this is an overlooked facet of their defensive successes, and the good judgment extends to all those deflections Doc mentions.

• Transition contribution

The Celtics are not scoring a lot of fast break points, but they’re scoring them more often than the opposition. The key word here (not to steal the thunder of the next stat to be cited) is opportunism. It appears to me that the Celtics this season are doing much better at taking advantage of opportunities (1) to fast break and to (2) use the break as a way of exercising the killer instinct. They’re scoring in spurts, which is often a sign of great teams (as long as there are enough spurts). It was definitely a major characteristic of the Russell teams.

• Opportunism

But the transition game is just one way in which the Celts are being opportunistic. This stat basically a shooting percentage stat. And the Celtics are taking better advantage than opponents of scoring opportunities:

….…....…Teams……….....Celtics…………Opponents

Two-point FG %............51%...............42%

Three-point FG %.........44%...............19%

Free throw %...............83%...............69%

So these are all very positive indicators…and reinforcement of the versatility (love that word) that pervades this squad. I am a bit concerned about points in the paint and also about grabbing a larger percentage of offensive rebounds. But I have a feeling (which I can’t support with data) that opponents’ rebound stats are somewhat padded by garbage time.

I’d rather have been writing this to a bunch of Celtics fans than to be doing it on the other coast right now.

Sam

by **gyso** Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:15 am

KellyGreen17 wrote:I totally agree. They would be in it right til about halfway through the fourth and then they would just have a melt down

Kelly,

That was exactly my feelings and thought process that year. It was fun to watch, they were an exciting bunch of guys but always seemed to fall just short of the win.

When the season was over, I felt that in the next year they would be the up and coming young team, like Atlanta in '08 and Chicago last year.

Then the lottery turned out to be another failed attempt to get any help that way, the Ray Allen trade and then this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5ExgbWgrYE</A>

Oh Happy Day!!

gyso

by **jeb** Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:47 am

Deere fellas

My internet went out right after Celts game ended. So I am just reading all this wisdom.

I thought the Lakers (sorry sky @ mg) looked fat and happy. Carried themselves with entitlement and whined and cried like Nancy Kerrigan.

Boys I know Pau was out but I tell you this. Our bench will execute their's with extreme prejudice. They got three guys that worry me. 1. Pau when he is facing the basket he cant play with his back to the hoop 2. Kobe 3. Bynum (though I think Perk will shit in Bynum's snack pak right quick)

Most importantly I thought the Lakers looked soft and old. It's only one game I know and they will win a ton this year but in terms of playing Boston. Bring em. Right now. We'll play em in a church a junior high or on the street.

What a great night to wear green.

Jeb

by **KellyGreen17** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:01 pm

Gyso, it may sound crazy, but when I heard we traded away Big Al, Gomes, Delonte, Telfair, Gerald, etc. for Ray and KG I really wasn't thrilled about it. I really liked those guys, and I too thought they we were just a season or two away from great things. I knew KG and Ray had great reputations, but I hadn't followed either of their careers. It only took a couple weeks for me to come to my senses, and obviously banner 17 proves that it was the move to make. I guess that's why management doesn't make decisions based on how much they like their players or whether they are good people!

by **David14** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:27 pm

jeb65 wrote:Deere fellas

My internet went out right after Celts game ended. So I am just reading all this wisdom.

I thought the Lakers (sorry sky @ mg) looked fat and happy. Carried themselves with entitlement and whined and cried like Nancy Kerrigan.

Boys I know Pau was out but I tell you this. Our bench will execute their's with extreme prejudice. They got three guys that worry me. 1. Pau when he is facing the basket he cant play with his back to the hoop 2. Kobe 3. Bynum (though I think Perk will shit in Bynum's snack pak right quick)

Most importantly I thought the Lakers looked soft and old. It's only one game I know and they will win a ton this year but in terms of playing Boston. Bring em. Right now. We'll play em in a church a junior high or on the street.

What a great night to wear green.

Jeb

Jebster, tell us how you really feel about the Lakers. Perhaps New York Knick Phil, who reaped the benefits of Doug Collins' historical success for building the Bulls, has not yet supplied his propaganda based books to Ronnie. Then again, maybe the Ghost of Red will be forced to spend a great deal of money for cigars this season.

Keep up the enjoyable, funny, and passionate posts. They create smiles and laughs in a timely manner.

David

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:30 pm

Sam
We have gelled much faster than I thought we would,Williams was an Auerbachian heist,another young bruiser defender to hang with Perk and not signing Posey ultimately allowed us to siqn Sheed who fits in seamlessly.Speaking of 3's love the fact that thats not Quis game,we have another penetrator and facillatator,he adds more pressure to opposing defenses.......how great is our defense?If we stay healthy I'm seeing 86 all over again as with this bench Big 3 can do less throughout season so that they'll have alot of energy to carry us when we go against the really big boys in the games that matter most.We will only get better too,were just like everyone else,still learning nuances of playing with new pieces,but were just better stocked as the first 3 games could not have gone much better.Gonna be alot of games this year Gino's gonna be coming out somewhere around 3rd quarter.This guy Danny is not as dumb as he looks.
cow

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:44 pm

For a guy who had 2-3 months of training camp in LA to learn the Triangle,he sure looked lost,he ran hard retrieving the ball into J Kidd,foul,then a tech,way to implode and build the Mavs lead,Lakers cut lead to 12,Artest comes down jacks up a contested 3,hey who does he think he is!!! only Kome has that kind of clout,ugly clank,Mavs get long rebound for transition lay up.Artest at this stage is too bulky and slow too handle elite 3's.Lebron,Pierce,Melo,Durant,Granger will be waiting to grab the bullies lunch.Artest already imploded earlier than I thought,only a few games,more imploding to come.

by **jeb** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:46 pm

Cow

I have not been so certain about things since 86 either. Shelden is really coming along and you can feel the guys rootin for him and building him up.

He makes his freebies and is a pretty damn good cutter as well.

Like you said very "Redesque' addition.

Jeb

by **Sam** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:53 pm

Cow,

Artest could certainly turn the whole thing around and lead the Lakers to the championship. But, in the meantime, my view is that this is a classic illustration of the fallacy of evaluating a player's worth in a vacuum.

To say Artest is better than Ariza or Ariza is better than Artest was always irrelevant. It's all about how Artest will impact the team and its chemistry versus how Ariza would have impacted the team and its chemistry.

How many times have I said, "It's all about the team?"

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:53 pm

jeb65 wrote:Cow

I have not been so certain about things since 86 either. Shelden is really coming along and you can feel the guys rootin for him and building him up.

He makes his freebies and is a pretty damn good cutter as well.

Like you said very "Redesque' addition.

Jeb

well I'm certainly rooting for Sheldon,his D is just what this team needs from him,makes our D even nastier and better,what a luxury to have another bulky defender to throw his weight around in the paint......bring on the Lakers,please,please.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:59 pm

Sam
Agreed Artest is an overated bully and cheapshot artist,he is talented,but the dirty aspect of his game has always made me root against him.I see this thing backfiring in Lakers face and now hes too slow,hes gonna be really exposed and frustrated and in a big game will do one of his cheap shots and get a flagrant-just watch.
cow

by **jeb** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:17 pm

Cow-Sam

Artest will disrupt lakes O throughout the year. I think he is a great one on one defender but not as good a fit and more of a "me" guy than Trevor was.

I also think in terms of nastiness and willingness to work every night that our guys are better at every pos but one and that one is close.

I had hoped that our guys would show up in shape and pissed off and I think they did that and more.

Right now our bench laps the Lakers. Bad.

Jeb

by **jeb** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:21 pm

And for what it's worth ...having spent a bunch of time there. L.A. just eats people with head trouble. You got to have your feet on the ground and KNOW yourself to deal with that city.

Some of the best people I know live there but it also attracts a ton of apex predators. I hope Ron keeps it together and we play the Lakes at full strength...but I have my doubts.

Jeb

by **worcester** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:51 pm

I'm sure Red is smiling in BB heaven watching this year's Green gobble up the opposition and watching Danny make moves like acquiring Sheed, Marquis, Lester, and Shelden. I wonder if he'd recommend planning a little bit ahead to makie moves to acquire Rudy Gay or even Shane Battier?

Meanwhile I love the way Paul is benefiting from Rondo's passes and the entire team chemistry.

It's great to be onboard with you folks. The Boston.Com forum got to be too confusing and lacked Sam's ongoing genius.
Worcester

by **Sam** Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:56 am

This game ended in a 97-87 Celtics win. But it was really a tale of four games:

Quaaludes ‘R Us

About two-thirds of the way through this game, I thought to myself, “Boy is this an uninspired game.” As if on cue, Tommy Heinsohn immediately said to Mike, “There’s no passion in this game.” Neither team had kicked any of its trademark attributes into high gear. There was scoring; defense; rebounding…all the usual stuff. But, for the most part, nobody seemed to care.

Peja giveth and Peja taketh

In the first half, Paul Pierce mounted a nice scoring outburst against Pega Stojakovic, who couldn’t guard a stone wall. Pierce’s points came primarily in clusters of threes, whether the old-fashioned way or from outside.

But, in the second half, Peja (with help from Chris Paul) continually exposed a soft Celtics perimeter defense that had previously held opponents to 19% shooting from the arc but allowed the Hornets to shoot 13 for 28 in this game.

We Had the World by the Pauls

Paul Pierce wasn’t simply the principal Celtics “spark” in the first half (aided by some timely Ray Allen shooting). Pierce came through big-time in the clutch with a huge jumper in the lane. The brightest spot in the game for me was that the Celts garnered 62 points in the paint. I’ve been concerned about their reliance on the three, and I have felt that the game would come when the three-ball would not give them sufficient advantage. This was that game.

The other Paul (Chris) was basically moribund in the first half. He left the game after the first five minutes and didn’t return for the rest of the first quarter. But, in the second quarter, he and Rondo got into a little out-of-bonds skirmish, and CP3 was energized throughout in the third quarter. Scoring almost at will, from inside and out, he brought the Hornets from 9 down into a short-lived lead near the end of the third.

Full of Sheed

Rasheed Wallace simply isn’t getting the print he deserves in this one. Even Paul Pierce’s early outburst couldn’t wake up the Celtics. But, when Sheed entered the game late in the third quarter, he provided the catalyst that finally energized this team. It’s not only the number of points that are important (although Sheed had 12); it’s often the timing of the points. And Wallace stuck some murderous daggers in the Hornets wrapped around the end of the third and the beginning of the fourth. He has absolutely no conscience from the arc; and he’s savvy everywhere.

These four chapters did not constitute the entire book:

• Rondo continued his superlative ball distribution with his fourth double-digit assist game (he’s averaging 11. Cool

.

• Perk is really beginning to earn the word “dependable” (12 and 7 in 28 minutes).

• Marquis seems to be an exception to my personal rule that you can’t judge an individual player by his +/- figures. He’s not filling stat sheets at all, but he always seems to be on the floor when the team gains points on the opposition.

• KG was two-for-three on attempted alley-oops.

• And the quintet of Garnett, Rondo, Ray, Pierce and Sheed all contributed to some sharp ballhandling and timely scoring down the stretch.

So now I’m off tomorrow to the Bahamas to launder some money. Wait, I have no money. I’m off to the Bahamas tomorrow to launder some shorts, which I soiled last night waiting for the Celtics to erupt. I’ll keep posting on the advanced stats thread (which didn’t show much in this game except to reinforce the tremendous advantage the Celts had in the paint). Matty, Jeb, David and Bobc will handle these post-game observation chores. NYCelt, gyso and Pete will be the mods and administrators while I’m gone. Thanks guys.

I hope you’ll all participate in the game-on threads (and contests) and in the post-game discussions, and I’ll see you in about a week.

Best to all, and GO CELTICS!

Sam

by **dboss** Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:29 pm

The expectations for this team are clearly reflected in Doc's post game comments. He was not happy with he way the team played.

Think about that. You win by 10 against a playoff team and the coach is not happy.

We will see great things from this team this year

dboss

by **dbrown4** Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:42 pm

Things do look great so far. Everyone has covered most if not all of the ground. I know this is looking ahead, but once we get to the playoffs, I would like to get the broom out at least in the first and maybe second round (OK, I'll take 4-1). While the Celtics vs. Bulls type series make for great theater, I'd like for the Celtics to experience a cakewalk series or two. Something they have not yet experienced in the playoffs to date!!

I think this team is most capable of doing just that. Not so much it makes them less hungry, just one sweep!! That's all I want!! A breather if you will!!

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