Going forward, what I would do to maximize this team for playoff run

First thing is you’ve got to get Jaylen Brown up to 30 minutes a game ESPECIALLY when he is on and in rythmn. He can score in bunches, why not let him go for 25-30 when he is rolling....let’s take him out, he can’t help us anymore, dumb Brad. Tatum gets those minutes and deservedly so, they both can routinely make great athletic plays because they can. How many times have we seen them make a steal and in a flash see them flying to the other end for the finish? Those plays routinely happen, they are that good, but they should happen more with more minutes. You know who never makes those plays? Marcus Morris, was a key play where I cursed loudly, he was last in line at the rim and couldn’t be softer on a Bledsoe lay up at crunch time, why was he even in at that time? He can bang a little, but offers so little rim protection, because he can’t jump barely, he’s a liability especially at crunch time. If I’m the opposing coach, whenever he’s in, I attack him.

Time to start Jaylen at the 3 with Tatum at the 4, I’d leave Smart as the other starting guard and let GH be the 6th man. Tatum has been rebounding better and it’s time to get the 5 best players on the floor playing together from the start. Jaylen and Tatum playing together adds more speed into the starting line up and both can be terrific help defenders/shot blockers, something Morris not equipped to do.

Did you guys hear me curse that night???...my wife did, then she came downstairs and yelled at me...??? True dat

100% agree Cow...Tatum and Brown should start together.

worcester wrote:100% agree Cow...Tatum and Brown should start together.

Right, my eye test tells me 2 J’s are future all stars.

Would love to hear from other board members any ideas/vision that they think could get us better for playoff run....

Sign a big.

This year's Celtics have lots of talent, but just cannot seem to jell like we all expected them to do after retaining just about their entire roster from last year's efforts that nearly got them to the finals.

Adding Irving and Hayward should have added to the team's talent level, but these two additions seemed to have disrupted much more than they have helped.

I was surprised that Ainge did nothing about the apparent "chemistry" issues at the trading deadline. Seems that he thought they needed more "time", but it may turn out that time is not the answer where making roster moves could have been needed.

Not gaining the finals and Irving not re-signing (no compensation for Irving), Hayward not able to regain his all star level of play, and with Horford aging may result in starting the re-build again.

My prediction is if Irving does re-sign in Boston in July that the Cs roster will look very different for next season than it does right now.

Possibly better than this year. Smart, Tatum, Brown, Horford, Baynes and Theis will be on board. +++

There are not enough 30+ minute slots on this team for all the players that can and should be playing 30+ MPG.  That is really the reason why you have chemistry issues.  And you have Gordon Hayward who is also a 30 MPG guy.  When healthy he is a 34 MPG guy.  Jaylen Brown is a 30+ MPG guy as well.

The fact of the matter is that Brad Stevens in an effort to use a deep rotation has diminished the playing time of guys that need and deserve to play more.

I think that you need to reinsert Jaylen Brown into the lineup.

I think Marcus Smart needs to go back to the bench.  I do not think he is a quality shooting guard.  Morris has played well this year but he has returned to the mean.  I am sending him back to the bench.

I would go back to the starting lineup that we had at the beginning of the year because both Brown and Hayward have reestablished their high level of play.

Gordon Hayward and Jaylen Brown are clearly NBA starters.

I like Morris more than you do for sure, I remember some conversations here last year about him too.

He is not a rim protector, but most 6-8 guys are not in the NBA. I think he and Smart bring some toughness (I should add Baynes here) that no one else brings. I personally like that.

His shooting can be streaky for sure, always has his whole career. But this year his 3 point shot is much better to date (like Smart also).

I think you all know where I;m going with this by now.

Yes Play Brown more, but the guys who's minutes need to drop is Hayward not Morris.

Brads big problems with "chemistry" for me comes from playing his old college player Hayward more minutes than he deserved earlier in the year. Brown and Rozier became the odd men out and that is still hurting this team

Maybe Hayward can beef up another 20 lbs of muscle and take over for Morris next season at PF. I doubt it ,but since no one will take on Hayward's deal we are stuck trying to find a way for him to be helpful with the team we currently have.

This is one of those threads that makes me wonder if we are watching the same team.

Marcus Morris is having a career year by any statistical measurement. Best career FG%, FT%, EFG%, Rebounds - what "mean" are you looking at D? He has been one of the most consistent players all season long.

Smart is also having a career year and doing everything many of you have complained about for years. He is shooting less often and at a MUCH higher %. He has pretty much eliminated his technical fouls, less turnovers, more steals and a top 35 player in every defensive measurement available.

In my view there is no way I take Morris or Smart out of the starting lineup. They set the tone from the jump and take the first run from the opposition. The problems this teams has begin in the second quarter, when the bench is inserted...blaming Smart or Morris is counter to the facts.

I do agree that in any given game, the players that finish out the game should be fluid. If Brown is hot- he should get more minutes down the stretch. But any look at +/- stats show why he is often isnt.

I seem nothing that needs to change with this team other than getting healthy and Danny bringing in someone as a FA to close out the year.

Wrong Mr. Kleen, Smart is a top 10 if not top 5 player defensively.

My eyes agree with you, but by defensive rating he is 35th.

mrkleen09 wrote:This is one of those threads that makes me wonder if we are watching the same team.

Marcus Morris is having a career year by any statistical measurement.  Best career FG%, FT%, EFG%, Rebounds - what "mean" are you looking at D?  He has been one of the most consistent players all season long.

Smart is also having a career year and doing everything many of you have complained about for years.  He is shooting less often and at a MUCH higher %.  He has pretty much eliminated his technical fouls, less turnovers, more steals and a top 35 player in every defensive measurement available.  

In my view there is no way I take Morris or Smart out of the starting lineup.  They set the tone from the jump and take the first run from the opposition.  The problems this teams has begin in the second quarter, when the bench is inserted...blaming Smart or Morris is counter to the facts.

I do agree that in any given game, the players that finish out the game should be fluid.  If Brown is hot- he should get more minutes down the stretch.  But any look at +/- stats show why he is often isnt.  

I seem nothing that needs to change with this team other than getting healthy and Danny bringing in someone as a FA to close out the year.

   +1

Mrkleen, then there's something imperfect about the defensive line ratings. Do they break them down by position? Surely Marcus must be among the top 10 D players among guards.

worcester wrote:Mrkleen, then there's something imperfect about the defensive line ratings. Do they break them down by position? Surely Marcus must be among the top 10 D players among guards.

Agreed.

By Guard he is Top 5




https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=ADVANCED&group=1&sort=5&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=1

Can't see changing the starting lineup.

Too significant an improvement when they went to the current group.

Other than that, I'm with Worcester; sign a big.

I'm good with what we've got.  I'd say, going forward:

1.  Stay healthy.

2.  Don't get caught watching the paint dry.  In our case "the paint" is Kyrie.  Move.  Even if he's doing his magic, move.  If your defender takes his eyes off you because he's watching Kyrie do his magic, move so you're not where he last thought you were.  If they double Kyrie out on top to get the ball out of his hands, move, preferably towards the rim and collapse the defense and get a dunk but also move to the ball to take a pass from Kyrie and then move the ball around away from the defensive cluster around Kyrie.


bob


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mrkleen09 wrote:This is one of those threads that makes me wonder if we are watching the same team.

Marcus Morris is having a career year by any statistical measurement.  Best career FG%, FT%, EFG%, Rebounds - what "mean" are you looking at D?  He has been one of the most consistent players all season long.

Smart is also having a career year and doing everything many of you have complained about for years.  He is shooting less often and at a MUCH higher %.  He has pretty much eliminated his technical fouls, less turnovers, more steals and a top 35 player in every defensive measurement available.  

In my view there is no way I take Morris or Smart out of the starting lineup.  They set the tone from the jump and take the first run from the opposition.  The problems this teams has begin in the second quarter, when the bench is inserted...blaming Smart or Morris is counter to the facts.

I do agree that in any given game, the players that finish out the game should be fluid.  If Brown is hot- he should get more minutes down the stretch.  But any look at +/- stats show why he is often isnt.  

I seem nothing that needs to change with this team other than getting healthy and Danny bringing in someone as a FA to close out the year.

Kleen

Here is what I see with respect to both Marcus's. Both have shown great improvement in shooting ball but both are trending in the wrong direction with respect to shooting the ball.

Morris is up in scoring this year by .7 PPG and his rebounding is up .7 per game. Those are career numbers but they remain very marginal improvement. Hayward is so much better than Morris so I would have him in their at PF probably.

I finish this up after the game.

Go Celts

Finishing my thought on this, when I refer to the mean, I am referring to a statistical measurement.  It is the average.  The larger the data set the more accurate are the findings.

Morris is shooting .405% but  has never been a .405% shooter from deep.  In December he shot a whopping .451% from deep and followed that up with a .363% in January and through 9 games this month he is shooting .325%  I do not think he is having a career year.  He shot the ball exceptionally well for the first 3 months of the year and is now trending back to the mean.  His other measurement are not career worthy numbers.

In any event I am going start Gordon Hayward because he is better than Morris overall and I think he needs to be in the starting lineup.

Marcus Smart has surprised everyone with his 3 point shooting but it would be hard to find any evidence that he too is having a career year.  His scoring, assists and rebounds are all down from last year.  His shooting has been better but he is still inconsistent.  His month to month deep ball shooting .176, .370, .322, .429 and .327.  The SG position requires a player that can score the basketball.  Averaging 8.3 PPG is simply not on a level for a starting SG. I'm putting Brown back into the lineup because I think he is a better starting SG than Smart.

The argument against this will be based on all those wonderful wins we had against a collection of inferior teams  with Morris and Smart in the starting lineup.

I was not buying those lofty wins and I cannot buy the current starting lineup.  It's flawed.

Something needs to change so I think a change in the lineup may be needed.  I do not think Brad will make a change now because he has gone down the rabbit hole too far.  

When this team losses a close game those thin margins give us hope but maybe the reason why we lose games that we should win  is because this team  is just not that good.

dboss wrote:Finishing my thought on this, when I refer to the mean, I am referring to a statistical measurement.  It is the average.  The larger the data set the more accurate are the findings.

Morris is shooting .405% but  has never been a .405% shooter from deep.  In December he shot a whopping .451% from deep and followed that up with a .363% in January and through 9 games this month he is shooting .325%  I do not think he is having a career year.  He shot the ball exceptionally well for the first 3 months of the year and is now trending back to the mean.  His other measurement are career worthy numbers.

In any event I am going start Gordon Hayward because he is better than Morris overall and I think he needs to be in the starting lineup.

Marcus Smart has surprised everyone with his 3 point shooting but it would be hard to find any evidence that he too is having a career year.  His scoring, assists and rebounds are all down from last year.  His shooting has been better but he is still inconsistent.  His month to month deep ball shooting .176, .370, .322, .429 and .327.  The SG position requires a player that can score the basketball.  Averaging 8.3 PPG is simply not on a level for a starting SG. I'm putting Brown back into the lineup because I think he is a better starting SG than Smart.

The argument against this will be based on all those wonderful wins we had against a collection of inferior teams  with Morris and Smart in the starting lineup.

I was not buying those lofty wins and I cannot buy the current starting lineup.  It's flawed.

Something needs to change so I think a change in the lineup may be needed.  I do not think Brad will make a change now because he has gone down the rabbit hole too far.  

When this team losses a close game those thin margins give us hope but maybe the reason why we lose games that we should win  is because this team  is just not that good.

First off.I know what the mean is.  

But I have to wonder what stats you are looking at, as in Marcus Morris case he is well above the "mean" in every category of note.  You dont have to think he is having a career year, the numbers settle that for us - he is having the best statistical season of his career on a much better team, so all his minutes mean something vs throw away years in Phoenix.  Best Numbers = Career Year.



There is no one on this board (except for Rosealie) who has been a bigger Gordon Hayward supporter, and while they need him to score and distribute the ball - he is not currently a better defender than Marcus Morris.  So unless Gordon is on fire, if I am the coach, Marcus get the minutes in a close game down the stretch.

As for the Brown vs Smart debate - this one is again about who is hot and how close the game is.  I could even agree that Brown should be the starter for a bit, cant hurt.  But under no circumstances do I want Marcus Smart on the bench in a close game.  His Plus/Minus and defensive intangibles make him the most valuable player on the court in a grind it out playoff 4th quarter.

In the end, the way they are playing right now - means all possibilities should be on the table and no one aside from Kyrie and Horford should have their starting roles locked in.  So in that way, I think we agree more than disagree.

Tatum deserves a locked in starting role also. Everyone else...debatable.

cowens/oldschool wrote:First thing is you’ve got to get Jaylen Brown up to 30 minutes a game ESPECIALLY when he is on and in rythmn. He can score in bunches, why not let him go for 25-30 when he is rolling....let’s take him out, he can’t help us anymore, dumb Brad. Tatum gets those minutes and deservedly so, they both can routinely make great athletic plays because they can. How many times have we seen them make a steal and in a flash see them flying to the other end for the finish? Those plays routinely happen, they are that good, but they should happen more with more minutes. You know who never makes those plays? Marcus Morris, was a key play where I cursed loudly, he was last in line at the rim and couldn’t be softer on a Bledsoe lay up at crunch time, why was he even in at that time? He can bang a little, but offers so little rim protection, because he can’t jump barely, he’s a liability especially at crunch time. If I’m the opposing coach, whenever he’s in, I attack him.

Time to start Jaylen at the 3 with Tatum at the 4, I’d leave Smart as the other starting guard and let GH be the 6th man. Tatum has been rebounding better and it’s time to get the 5 best players on the floor playing together from the start. Jaylen and Tatum playing together adds more speed into the starting line up and both can be terrific help defenders/shot blockers, something Morris not equipped to do.

Your first paragraph looks very similar to my post yesterday. Some here are ready to get rid of Tatum because he isn't as good as Davis. I don't trade our whole team for Davis and then watch him bolt to LA. Players on this team don't have fun anymore because one man has the ball all the time and doesn't get everyone involved. Players need to touch the ball to be into the game. We will never win with Irving unless he has one or two of the best players in the league with him. If you can't see the difference from last years team and what they looked like when Kyrie sits this year, well there is nothing I can tell you. He pretty much has a track record of only winning with Lebron. Take away our long winning streak last year and our record wasn't that good. We gelled later on in the year and playoffs. Our young players have not developed anywhere near where we thought they would be.

Please don't tell me how good a talent he is because I know. I also know he doesn't make anyone better except himself and sometimes Al. Maybe its our offense and Brad doesn't know how to make it work but like I said there is a track record here.

My oldest son, who some of you met years ago when he was little, lives in Chicago was at the game, as mentioned on the post game, Levine and Lauri were unconscious. Two players that their production, Rozier and style, Morris, tweener/big defensive liability should go....I would give them away for free, more minutes are needed for Jaylen and Theis. I don’t know if RW could have made a difference on unconscious Lauri, but his defense couldn’t be as pitiful as Morris.

worcester wrote:Mrkleen, then there's something imperfect about the defensive line ratings. Do they break them down by position? Surely Marcus must be among the top 10 D players among guards.

My eye test tells me Smart is an elite defender too.