Kyrie Irving holds the key to getting the swerving-off-course Celtics back on the right track

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Kyrie Irving holds the key to getting the swerving-off-course Celtics back on the right track



By A. Sherrod Blakely
March 24, 2019 11:45 PM




BOSTON -- The Boston Celtics spent more time than usual inside the locker room following their 115-96 drubbing at the hands of the San Antonio Spurs.

While the particulars of what was said remain a mystery, there’s one thing that came through with clarity - everyone inside that locker room has be better.

A better player; a better teammate; a better leader; better at doing whatever role they are tasked with.

And while it is indeed an across-the-board problem, there’s no denying who has to be the first to make that change and make it soon - Kyrie Irving.

He is Boston’s best player, the one everyone looks to for leadership both on the floor and inside the locker room.

Boston (43-31) has now lost four in a row, the team’s longest losing streak of the season.

They have given up at least 114 points in seven straight games, something that last happened to a Celtics team before any of the current Celtics - or their head coach Brad Stevens - was born.

Irving reminded us all how hard it can be to win in the NBA, and how difficult it can be to “accomplish something great.”

And while there may be a million opinions outside the Celtics locker room, Irving readily admits that he has to be better in a number of areas.

“For me my focus is figuring out, the guys I have in my locker room, how to get the best out of them and them getting the best out of me,” Irving said. “It’s been hard but it’s a challenge worth fighting for because the end result is standing on that (championship) stage.”

Of course, Irving is the lone Celtics player who has won an NBA title besides Baynes, although Irving did it as a starter while Baynes, then with San Antonio, was a lightly used reserve.

And having played both for a team that won a title (Cleveland) and one that's in pursuit of one (Boston), there are indeed some similarities.

But not many.

“This is just a new challenge," Irving said. "We had a luxury of relying on experience (in Cleveland). Here we’re building something great every single day and that’s the experience we get. We had guys (in Cleveland) that had been on that stage, lost on that stage, won on that stage. Here, we’re trying to build great championship habits. And that takes time and takes a commitment.

Irving added, “But it starts with me. I will do my best to keep communicating as best I can and get the most out of these guys because they deserve it.”

And that communication that Irving speaks about … he knows it too is something that he has to do a better job at going forward.

“I’m used to gearing up for something bigger than myself around this time and what it takes,” Irving said. “I can do a better job of communicating that to my teammates. And being a better listener, figuring out the best way to communicate with those guys, that point, this point in the season … getting ready for wars and battles.”

And while the challenge of figuring all this out and making the most of a season that began with such promise is indeed difficult, Irving says he’s all-in with his focus on the big picture.

“For us we’re still developing as a team, a whole season of doing so,” Irving said. “But there’s a light at the end of all this. That’s probably where my patience will always lay, knowing something’s beyond this, something … this challenge is happening for a reason and I have to believe that.”

He added, “It hasn’t looked pretty all the time, but we’ve always tried to find a way to figure it out and get the most out of each other. It starts with me and it trickles down to the rest of our leaders on this team. You have to be committed and it starts with me."



bob


.

“He is Boston’s best player, the one everyone looks to for leadership both on the floor and inside the locker room.“

I’m guessing on this, but think if you asked all the Celtics players if the above statement is true maybe one or two would agree, the rest would burst out laughing.

Obviously I am totally down on Kyrie and hope come July 1st he is gone.  That said, I’m going to do my best to not constantly put him down as that gets tiresome for the Forum.

Kyrie certainly gets his share of criticism and praise.

Here is a question for the forum.  What would you like to see Kyrie do better?  It can be one or more things.

Here is what I think.

It is hard to impugn his numbers.  Statistically he is having a very solid year with career marks in both assists and rebounds.  Defensively, I think he can be better although he is second on the team in steals at 1.5 per game as compared to our steals leader Marcus Smart at 1.7 per game.

On offense he forces things at times but again his shooting percentages from everywhere have been pretty solid.  If there is one guy that can find scoring opportunities outside of set plays he is definitely able to do that.  I think he is still working on when to go ISO and when not to.  That is difficult to determine.

In terms of his attitude, I think he has had a positive attitude overall.  He has made a few mistakes along the way however and mistakes tend to get amplified.  He criticized some of the young guys on this team which came across negatively and also ignored the deficiencies inherent in our veterans.  He also seemed to flip flop on his long term commitment to the Celtics during a Madison Garden interview when asked about his intention to resign with Boston.

Overall, not much there in my opinion.

He has also expressed his desire to be better, to be a leader on this team and to do everything that he can to help them win.

I think Boston is a better team with Kyrie than without him.  

This has been a disappointing year based on very high expectations.  We still have some games remaining and then hopefully more in the playoffs.  There is no one thing that has gone wrong but a number of things in combination with one another.

bobc33 wrote:“He is Boston’s best player, the one everyone looks to for leadership both on the floor and inside the locker room.“

I’m guessing on this, but think if you asked all the Celtics players if the above statement is true maybe one or two would agree, the rest would burst out laughing.

Obviously I am totally down on Kyrie and hope come July 1st he is gone.  That said, I’m going to do my best to not constantly put him down as that gets tiresome for the Forum.

Bob,

Interesting take coming from you; normally one of our most positive forum members.

What gets my attention is, as someone I've talked to in person and online for years, you don't jump to conclusions.

Add to that the fact that you're someone with a long history in and around the game of basketball, and a lifelong Celtics fan, your opinion gets my attention. That and the fact you know some of the best places for dessert in the North End.

I'm seeing more and more Celtic fans sharing your thoughts. It's not often that Boston fans haven't embraced a player, flaws and all. It's going to be an interesting offseason. I think a significant number of fans are going to be just as happy if Irving leaves. That will free up some funds. I've posted the theory of addition by subtraction more than once. If Irving is truly having a negative affect on the team, it wouldn't be the first time a superstar's departure has improved team play. Something is sure different from this time last year, despite the same roster. I'm not buying that it's at all some drop off due to Rozier only being productive as a starter or some sophomore slump by Tatum. There's more to it. Maybe you're onto something. It's certainly an opinion worth discussion.

Regards

NYCelt

I think the most overlooked difference year over year is the improvement of teams in the East.  Our expectations for this team were based on how well they played last year even with no Hayward all season and no Kyrie in the playoffs.  Other teams got really, really good and more teams are playing the same style as the Celtics.

You previously mentioned there was a 50/50 chance that Kyrie stays or leaves.  A poor showing during  the playoffs may sway him to leave.  But he may not want to leave.  Boston has invested in Irving more so than AH and GH because they traded for him and had to part with assets.  I do not see Danny letting him walk away.

This brings me right back to the AD situation.  If Danny trades for AD i do not see Kyrie leaving.

In a few month a lot of questions will be answered.

Nothing new here - as results often times fail to meet expectations - then comes the guess work as to why - perhaps the Celtic management will, in the near future, will lend some professional insight as to this current dilemma.

 swish

dboss wrote:

I think Boston is a better team with Kyrie than without him.  

With all due respect dboss I see no proof for this statement. In spite of Kyries stats the team is playing much more poorly than last year. I'm with Bobc33. I would be glad to see him go.

Berlin-T, Celtics fan since 1956.

In most cases a team's best player (athleticism and stats) makes his team much better, and there are thousands of examples and many in Boston history with Bird and Russell coming to immediate thought.

However, there are times when a team's "best" player not only does not make his team better, but sometimes tears it up.  Looking back at last season, the Cs played great down the stretch and in the playoffs without Mr. Irving, and displayed all of the characteristics that we are all still waiting for this season.

Also, although in a very spread out sample, the team has played much more like what they did last year in the playoffs when Irving sits out with injuries.

With all of the struggles this year, this team has been very difficult for me to follow and like, and basically they are the same named players as were on last year's team.  The team has been frustrated, the coach has been frustrated and so have many (most?) of the fans on at least this forum have been frustrated.

There are many targets for the cause of everyone's frustration, but the guy with the biggest target has to be the "best" player.  The best player is the difference maker on a team, but the best player on the Cs has mostly only made a negative difference.  He has played pretty well, but has led terribly be it by verbally ruining the other guys as a figure pointer and by his often terrible on-court efforts.  If there are two things that I have seen "best" players do for a team - they do not criticize in public and they always hustle.  Mr. Irving on these two characteristics????

In group settings sometimes subtraction is the best way to get better.   Addition by subtraction is not always fun, but is sometimes very necessary.  Irving should have been traded at the trade deadline when Ainge could have gotten at least one decent player, a young prospect, draft picks, and probably a salary dump type guy.  Now Ainge needs to let him find another team in early July while making plans to adjust the current rebuilding efforts.

Berlin-T wrote:

dboss wrote:

I think Boston is a better team with Kyrie than without him.  

With all due respect dboss I see no proof for this statement. In spite of Kyries stats the team is playing much more poorly than last year. I'm with Bobc33. I would be glad to see him go.

Berlin-T, Celtics fan since 1956.

Offensively Boston has a better net rating with him on the court. That is evidence. But I am trying to get down to the what it is that is wrong. Can you tell me what you do not like about him. What does he need to do better?

Kyrie is the only player on this team with his unique offensive skillset. Everyone else can be shut down 1 vs 1. I don't think this team is better without him because we would be even more 1-dimensional on offense than we are now. Kyrie's the only guy on this team that I have confidence in getting a shot off when it's crunch time.

He isn't the most media friendly personality and his statements don't always reflect what people want to hear him say. With that said, I'd rather he's still on this team long-term. I think he's frustrated because he knows the team can do better. Really, I think a lot of blame should go on Stevens' shoulders. Our injuries weren't as heavy as last years and he has failed to adjust to how other teams are playing against the C's.


KJ

dboss wrote:

Berlin-T wrote:

dboss wrote:

I think Boston is a better team with Kyrie than without him.  

With all due respect dboss I see no proof for this statement. In spite of Kyries stats the team is playing much more poorly than last year. I'm with Bobc33. I would be glad to see him go.

Berlin-T, Celtics fan since 1956.

Offensively Boston has a better net rating with him on the court.  That is evidence.  But I am trying to get down to the what it is that is wrong.  Can you tell me what you do not like about him.  What does he need to do better?

I don't believe he can do better. I was one of the few who were sceptical of him at the time of the IT trade. It was said in Cleveland that he was not talking to his teammates, something nobody took seriously here. In short, he's a head case. Someone else is always to blame, not him, or if it is him, he doesn't know what to do about except "play better". I find it  pretty rich, him complaining about the young players on the team not knowing how to win when they went 7 games in the ECF without him. Boston might have a better net rating with him on the court, but they have a better win-lost record with him out.

dboss wrote:Kyrie certainly gets his share of criticism and praise.

Here is a question for the forum.  What would you like to see Kyrie do better?  It can be one or more things.

Here is what I think.

It is hard to impugn his numbers.  Statistically he is having a very solid year with career marks in both assists and rebounds.  Defensively, I think he can be better although he is second on the team in steals at 1.5 per game as compared to our steals leader Marcus Smart at 1.7 per game.

On offense he forces things at times but again his shooting percentages from everywhere have been pretty solid.  If there is one guy that can find scoring opportunities outside of set plays he is definitely able to do that.  I think he is still working on when to go ISO and when not to.  That is difficult to determine.

In terms of his attitude, I think he has had a positive attitude overall.  He has made a few mistakes along the way however and mistakes tend to get amplified.  He criticized some of the young guys on this team which came across negatively and also ignored the deficiencies inherent in our veterans.  He also seemed to flip flop on his long term commitment to the Celtics during a Madison Garden interview when asked about his intention to resign with Boston.

Overall, not much there in my opinion.

He has also expressed his desire to be better, to be a leader on this team and to do everything that he can to help them win.

I think Boston is a better team with Kyrie than without him.  

This has been a disappointing year based on very high expectations.  We still have some games remaining and then hopefully more in the playoffs.  There is no one thing that has gone wrong but a number of things in combination with one another.

Dboss,
Let me first answer your question as to what I would most like to see Kyrie do more of. Humble himself and....humble himself.
Kyrie has had a statistically good year, but so has LeBron. I respect your knowledge of the game so I’m sure you’ll agree that having a good statistical year does not equate to having a good year.
Most of us agree that Kyrie is one hell of a player. Dude can do things with a basketball that is nothing short of amazing. We cant question his individual effort on the floor as he does bring his A game when hes out there. But- basketball is more of a team sport than any sport that I’ve ever played or had the pleasure to observe.
What I do question with Kyrie is his leadership or lack thereof. This is where he sucks and this is where i feel we need him most. If possible I’d also like to see more leadership from him as well.
If I have to watch one more presser of him throwing his teammates and coach under the bus I’m going to break another lamp. This is what I’d like to see less of. Besides I cant afford to keep breaking lamps and stay married.
Ive seen other players do the same on other teams but through the years of watching my Celtics I cant think of very many players who have done this much bitching in their entire career with the C’s much less in one season. Bird at times outwardly bitched but not like this.
We are 43-31 with a healthy Kyrie and there’s a lot of blame to go around, starting with Danny. Of course, We should be better.
I seriously question Kyrie’s leadership, his attitude and his commitment long term with the C’s.
He’s not a good leader, he comes off as a prima donna and I’m sure his teammates feel it. And he gives very little assurances that he is in it for the long haul.
I’ve been over the possibility that he may leave to team up with whomever.
My thoughts here lately has been do we really want to give this player a Max contract?

Yeah. Let's give his minutes to Wanamaker, Dozier and Hunter. Kyrie's off-court statements to the press outweigh his 24 points 7 assists and 1.5 steals, his 50 percent shooting, over 40 from three point range and high 80s free throws. Like everyone else, I wish he would make fewer public proclamations, but if his young teammates are so fragile that they play shitty because somebody criticises them, I'm sorry but that's on them, not Kyrie. His statement that some of the young guys didn't know how to win championships, while impolitic, sure looks accurate to me. I am far more concerned witsh Tatum dribbling the lock down and settling for contested midrange fall aways, Rozier throwimg up shots early in the shot clock and our bigs being totslly dominated in the paint than I am with Irving's tendency to put his foot in his mouth. I don't remember him being a source of discord in Clevelanf. It was IT who criticized Love for lleaving a game because of a panic attack and J.R.Smith who threw hit soup on a coach. Kyrie was one of the saner huys on that team.

Yeah. Let's give his minutes to Wanamaker, Dozier and Hunter. Kyrie's off-court statements to the press outweigh his 24 points 7 assists and 1.5 steals, his 50 percent shooting, over 40 from three point range and high 80s free throws. Like everyone else, I wish he would make fewer public proclamations, but if his young teammates are so fragile that they play shitty because somebody criticises them, I'm sorry but that's on them, not Kyrie. His statement that some of the young guys didn't know how to win championships, while impolitic, sure looks accurate to me. I am far more concerned with Tatum dribbling the clock down and settling for contested midrange fall aways, Rozier throwimg up contested shots early in the shot clock and our bigs being totslly dominated in the paint than I am with Irving's tendency to put his foot in his mouth. I don't remember him being a source of discord in Cleveland. It was IT who criticized Love for leaving a game because of a panic attack and J.R.Smith who threw hot soup on a coach. Kyrie was one of the saner guys on that team.

amazing talent

NOT a leader, throes his teammates and now his coach under the bus

has blown up two teams now, have a great time with the Knicks.

dboss,

I'm going to read between your lines and say the following. Shoot me down if that's not what you are implying.

We're going to need Kyrie to get to the finals this season. More than we may be willing to give him credit. No ifs, ands or buts. No one else except Baynes has been there and will know the lay of the land better than anyone on the whole team, including Brad. Talk is cheap. You've either been to the Finals and won or you haven't been. That's where Kyrie's going to earn his $20Mil this season. Nowhere else.

If Kyrie would have been healthy for last year's playoffs, no question we would have made it to the finals at least. Kyrie does not seem to fit the typical Celtic mold of player either in his play or his attitude. Doesn't mean he can't fit in and make it work his way. Remember his mentor and teacher who he won a championship with in Cleveland. Nobody, myself included, speaks/spoke too highly of him or his actions yet he has 3 championships to date. I have come to respect LeBron though. Like him a lot.

I've been all over the map myself this year. For the first time this season, I haven't pre-recorded tonight's game in CLE of all places for fear they are going to lose yet another game for an infinite number of reasons. And I'm just not going to watch it if they do.

As I said in another thread, I'm now down to just listening to what the team has to say and waiting for the playoffs. I have nothing else to go on but their word that things will be fine come the playoffs. When the playoffs end, we are all either going to say, "I tried to tell ya" as they get swept out of the first round by BS IND, or "Holy Crap!! We just won Banner 18!!"

Isn't that the way we like it though? Isn't a Celtic's fan attitude for the season it's either Championship or Bust? Well this year for the playoffs it's Championship or Get Swept in the 1st Round. Those are the options.

The good news is, we will know within 2 weeks, maybe 1 week, from the start of the playoffs if we bow out in the 1st round. If we pass that test, there's only one other choice....

I like our chances!

db

Hi,
I don't think that KI is a sole party to the ailment that's crippling Celtics this season.
I can't put my finger what this ailment is.
I just hope that Brad and Danny know that and trying to figure out ways to overcome it, especially in playoffs.

AK

dboss wrote:Kyrie certainly gets his share of criticism and praise.

Here is a question for the forum.  What would you like to see Kyrie do better?  It can be one or more things.

Here is what I think.

It is hard to impugn his numbers.  Statistically he is having a very solid year with career marks in both assists and rebounds.  Defensively, I think he can be better although he is second on the team in steals at 1.5 per game as compared to our steals leader Marcus Smart at 1.7 per game.

On offense he forces things at times but again his shooting percentages from everywhere have been pretty solid.  If there is one guy that can find scoring opportunities outside of set plays he is definitely able to do that.  I think he is still working on when to go ISO and when not to.  That is difficult to determine.

In terms of his attitude, I think he has had a positive attitude overall.  He has made a few mistakes along the way however and mistakes tend to get amplified.  He criticized some of the young guys on this team which came across negatively and also ignored the deficiencies inherent in our veterans.  He also seemed to flip flop on his long term commitment to the Celtics during a Madison Garden interview when asked about his intention to resign with Boston.

Overall, not much there in my opinion.

He has also expressed his desire to be better, to be a leader on this team and to do everything that he can to help them win.

I think Boston is a better team with Kyrie than without him.  

This has been a disappointing year based on very high expectations.  We still have some games remaining and then hopefully more in the playoffs.  There is no one thing that has gone wrong but a number of things in combination with one another.

I'd like to see Kyrie play a more team oriented game and assert his ISO stuff on an as needed basis including during the fourth quarter.
I'd like to see Kyrie keep some of his bullets in his holster so he has some gas left for the fourth quarter (e.g., Kemba's recent fourth-quarter  scorching of Kyrie).
Depending on who is covering him I'd like to see Kyrie give the ball up to Smart or Haywood since Kyrie's short which physically impairs his court vision, particularly when a taller player is on him.
Thus, he could come off screens for open looks, which has been a traditional Celtic play going way back. Kyrie can make an open three off a screen so that would be a good percentage play to run again and again.
I'd like to see more pick and roll action and two-man game that him and Horford have the IQ for. Maybe he can get others involved if they know what to do (in the two man game). In the high pick and roll most of the guys should know how to set a pick and release to the hole.
I'd like to see Kyrie continue to play better defense, quick hands, etc. I'd like to see him play consistently better defense, however, as I still see him give up on plays (granted he's not alone as only Smart is giving 100% on the defensive end - huge problem for this team).
I'd like Kyrie to be far more professional in his treatment of his teammates and coaching staff. For example, I'd like to see Kyrie actively cheering for his teammates, which he has done in the not too distant past. And, obviously cut out the negative stuff that degrades his status and standing and demotivates those around him.

Some very interesting comments from everyone. Many are attitude related and some look at his style of play and what he could do better on the court.

He obviously has some flaws not unlike others on his team But I am of the mindset that he is not the finished product and he has done nothing or said anything that cannot be forgiven.

The Celtics are in the midst of finishing up a very difficult season. Changes are coming. I do not think the Celtics will cut ties with Kyrie. Skill wise he remains an elite talent and he can work on his communication skills which I think is the main reason for negative comments from fans.

dboss wrote:Some very interesting comments from everyone.  Many are attitude related and some look at his style of play and what he could do better on the court.

He obviously has some flaws not unlike others on his team  But I am of the mindset that he is not the finished product and he has done nothing or said anything that cannot be forgiven.

The Celtics are in the midst of finishing up a very difficult season.  Changes are coming.  I do not think the Celtics will cut ties with Kyrie.  Skill wise he remains an elite talent and he can work on his communication skills which I think is the main reason for negative comments from fans.  

Kyrie has all the power as to who cuts ties with whom. I wouldn't even mind if he wants to go back home and be a Knick, good for him and the union contract the players association got him perfectly allows him that freedom. I just want him to finish out the year representing the Celtics I know - win or lose. In my post I mentioned only on court related improvements, including his professionalism or lack thereof, which bleeds on to the court. [Another astute observer added that leaders hustle all the time - I actually think he's been trying harder to do that too.] In a way he is being scapegoated because as I think of the rest of the team, Kryie is at least trying harder than a lot of the guys.

Kyrie anointed himself the leader on this team thus he has to accept the responsibilities associated with leadership. But I do not think he has figured those things out yet. There is a road to leadership and he has stubbed his toe a few times.

I also think that coach Stevens should have installed team captains or let his players vote for captains. The lack of discipline on this team is partly due to a lack of a hierarchy. From GM to Coach to Team Captain to players . A singular message.

Just heard Kyrie is resting tonight, I don’t remember Bird or Pierce taking so many games off at 27...??? Kyrie has mad skill, toughness no!!

I will jump in at the bottom of this debate. I, too, like you dboss, have been all over the map about Kyrie. One day I could go the rest of the year without him and the next, in awe of what he can do with the basketball. I am of the belief that his leaving will set this club back five years. Without a true good point guard who is a super star and a top player in the league, who will want to come here? There is no way AD signs an extension if he is traded here if Kyrie is gone unless the Celtics are able to sign KD (i joke here as, for whatever reason, I think he is headed to NYC). Maybe they think they can get AD,KD,KI, all in NYC.

I feel, in order to be considered a success and his own man, he needs to make it work here. He has to find a way of curbing his criticism of fellow players and his coach. Stevens has said .... go ahead with your criticism, just show me where and what you think is wrong.

As far as Brad is concerned, he does deserve some of the blame. He lets the runs that teams make get out of hand before he stops play, and tries to stop the bleeding. I noticed the other night Pop let five points go up in a minute and a half and he called a time out. What good is saving your time out's if the game is out of control and you are behind by 18? Big issue with that. I do think he has tried more combo's than we could keep track of. My only issue is Jaylen not getting the bulk of minutes . Too much faith in Morris.

So, I guess I will say, NO, I do not want Kyrie gone. Terry Rozier is not the future point guard for this team, He just is not the player I feel could lead a championship driven team. My only other issue is Jason Tatum, and the step back he has taken in his development. You may think you will be an all star, (and maybe you will) but not the way you are using your skills right now. Time for them to sit you in a room with a film clip full of all your foolish offensive fouls, blown bunnies, and those step back shots you are determined to take.

I have rambled, I know, as I said yesterday I am haunted by how bad this team has played. Again, I am just so willing to give this team my faith until it is over. Done............

jrleftfoot wrote:Yeah. Let's give his minutes to Wanamaker, Dozier and  Hunter. Kyrie's off-court  statements to the press outweigh his 24 points 7 assists and 1.5 steals, his 50 percent shooting, over 40 from three point range and high 80s free throws. Like everyone else, I wish he would make fewer public proclamations, but if his young teammates are so fragile that they play shitty because somebody criticises  them, I'm sorry but that's on them, not Kyrie. His statement that some of the young guys didn't know how to win championships, while impolitic, sure looks accurate to me. I am far more concerned with Tatum dribbling the  clock down and settling for contested midrange fall aways, Rozier throwimg up contested shots early in the shot clock and our bigs being totslly dominated in the paint than I am  with Irving's tendency to put his foot in his mouth. I don't remember him being a source of discord in Cleveland. It was IT who criticized Love for leaving a game because of a panic attack and J.R.Smith who threw hot soup on a coach. Kyrie was one of the saner guys on that team.

Just because one didn’t hear about discord coming from Kyrie while in Cleveland doesn’t mean it never happened. Personally I couldn’t care less about what he did or didn’t do in Cleveland. I only care about what he does or doesn’t do in Boston and (unlike IT while here) I think he’s created problems.

Leftfoot,

There have been many times this season that I would rather have seen Wanamaker play in Irving's spot.

I doubt that Wanamaker would have verbally ripped teammates in public or have sloughed off on defense. Irving has far more talent, but when you anoint yourself the team leader ripping teammates and not hustling are inexcusable.