Kyrie Irving holds the key to getting the swerving-off-course Celtics back on the right track

oh no, another win without Irving?

wideclyde wrote:oh no, another win without Irving?

The diva needed some beauty sleep

I guess we can agree to disagree about Kyrie and whether Wanamaker, who I like, can make up for the 40 points , or so, including assists, that KI provides per game. Pretty sure that the coach decides who plays and who doesn't . Resting players, whether we like it or not, is common around the NBA. Comments about beauty sleep should probably be addressed to Brad Stevens. It's ok with me if Kyrie leaves and we endure the " process." I'm not one of the people who thought the Celtics were a shoo-in to dominate the east. Maybe Ainge can finally draft a prominent big man or send NO some under-achievers and a slew of draft choices for Anthony Davis .Of course, that might entice the diva to stay, to the chagrin of the he's the one to blame chorus.

Gosh , we beat Cleveland without Kyrie---- that proves we are better without him.

Ktronic1 wrote:

jrleftfoot wrote:Yeah. Let's give his minutes to Wanamaker, Dozier and  Hunter. Kyrie's off-court  statements to the press outweigh his 24 points 7 assists and 1.5 steals, his 50 percent shooting, over 40 from three point range and high 80s free throws. Like everyone else, I wish he would make fewer public proclamations, but if his young teammates are so fragile that they play shitty because somebody criticises  them, I'm sorry but that's on them, not Kyrie. His statement that some of the young guys didn't know how to win championships, while impolitic, sure looks accurate to me. I am far more concerned with Tatum dribbling the  clock down and settling for contested midrange fall aways, Rozier throwimg up contested shots early in the shot clock and our bigs being totslly dominated in the paint than I am  with Irving's tendency to put his foot in his mouth. I don't remember him being a source of discord in Cleveland. It was IT who criticized Love for leaving a game because of a panic attack and J.R.Smith who threw hot soup on a coach. Kyrie was one of the saner guys on that team.

Just because one didn’t hear about discord coming from Kyrie while in Cleveland doesn’t mean it never happened. Personally I couldn’t care less about what he did or didn’t do in Cleveland. I only care about what he does or doesn’t do in Boston and (unlike IT while here) I think he’s created problems.

                                  one of his ex-teammates in  Cleveland just lavished him with praise and nobody on those Cav teams has complained about him, but I suppose you know more about what went on there than Love

This narrative that Kyrie is responsible for the team's downfall reminds me of last year's Morris hatred on this board. Evidently, there always has to be a scapegoat.

It's ok with me if Kyrie leaves and we endure the " process.

what process...the process of winning you mean?

someone posted on he game on thread that we are 11-2 without the diva this year. and we all know how we played in last years playoffs.

move on Danny!!!

Kyrie is a great talent putting up great numbers this year. However, we are 33-29 with him playing, 11-2 when he is not. That is a pretty large sample size. Somehow the rest of the team plays better without him. Something about Kyrie has not inspired his teammates. He can fix this, and Brad can help, but both Kyrie and Brad seem to be slow learners this year, and it really concerns me. This is like Ray Milland's Lost Weekend. Danny hasn't helped at all this year. Not at all. Since September what has Danny done to improve this team. Greg Monroe? That's all? Please.

worcester,

When you ask "can he (Irving) fix this?"  I am afraid that he can not even if he decides he wants to.  The season has been long, disappointing and frustrating for everyone and it got even worse since he walked back his early season desire to stay in Boston in the future.

His teammates now have a very strong impression of him that perhaps not even a championship is going to change.  

If Ainge brings back Irving next year he (Ainge) may have to make many significant other changes in the roster for the team to be competitive as I doubt that many current guys really want to play with Mr. Irving for another season.  Of course, I am not in the locker room, on the bus, in meetings, etc, but just from what I have seen of his very often lackadaisical defense and verbally calling out his teammates in public, I would not want to play with him again.  

The other players are not stupid.  They can see that the team plays more coherently when Irving does not play.  The other guys are not better players when Irving sits, but they play differently and far better together.  They can see the difference in the team's record when Irving sits as easily as we can.

Ainge can certainly get on the phone and find places for guys like Tatum, Brown, Smart, etc, etc and even
get back some decent talent if he decides to build around Irving (if he signs in Boston) to where the team may be competitive, but doing so certainly would appear to be a big gamble.

I have said it on other threads, but Irving should have been traded at the deadline when he would have brought a good player, a young prospect type guy, probably a bad salary guy and draft picks.  Addition by subtraction?

PS: I can not wait to hear comments by fellow teammates if Irving goes elsewhere in July. I predict that they will sound something like
"He can really score, but..." or "He is a great talent, but..." if the teammates are willing to speak out honestly.

The entire NBA Sirius XM universe is asking "What happened to the Celtics?"

No answers yet. We'll see how this plays out.

NYCelt wrote:

bobc33 wrote:“He is Boston’s best player, the one everyone looks to for leadership both on the floor and inside the locker room.“

I’m guessing on this, but think if you asked all the Celtics players if the above statement is true maybe one or two would agree, the rest would burst out laughing.

Obviously I am totally down on Kyrie and hope come July 1st he is gone.  That said, I’m going to do my best to not constantly put him down as that gets tiresome for the Forum.

Bob,

Interesting take coming from you; normally one of our most positive forum members.

What gets my attention is, as someone I've talked to in person and online for years, you don't jump to conclusions.

Add to that the fact that you're someone with a long history in and around the game of basketball, and a lifelong Celtics fan, your opinion gets my attention. That and the fact you know some of the best places for dessert in the North End.

I'm seeing more and more Celtic fans sharing your thoughts. It's not often that Boston fans haven't embraced a player, flaws and all. It's going to be an interesting offseason. I think a significant number of fans are going to be just as happy if Irving leaves. That will free up some funds. I've posted the theory of addition by subtraction more than once. If Irving is truly having a negative affect on the team, it wouldn't be the first time a superstar's departure has improved team play. Something is sure different from this time last year, despite the same roster. I'm not buying that it's at all some drop off due to Rozier only being productive as a starter or some sophomore slump by Tatum. There's more to it. Maybe you're onto something. It's certainly an opinion worth discussion.

Regards

NYCelt I hope we get to visit another dessert place in the North End some time!   Hope some day we have another event; maybe in Boston, maybe in NYC, maybe in Albany (somewhat central location travel wise for those of us in the northeast), maybe in Sarasota FL (where I’m thinking of spending a couple of months next winter) whether during the season or in the summer.  I think Sam would be pleased with how the Forum has remained strong, and would be even more pleased if we still got together every year or two.

Regarding Kyrie, it is all subjective personal preference on my part.  I’m sure his stats are as good or better this year than they ever have been.  Perhaps our chances of winning a championship are best with him on the team.  Regardless, in my estimation his attempts at leadership have failed totally and I think there is very little joy on the team this season and their underwhelming and inconsistent play is a result of the poor chemistry.   If Kyrie talked much less, and took the words I Me Mine (I think of the Beatles song every time he speaks) out of his vocabulary, and Brad appointed Horford and Smart as co-captains, I could get on board again.  Doubt that is going to happen.

The thought of having five more years of Kyrie at the helm, unless he changes his attitude dramatically, consistently, and permanently, will make following the Celtics a much less enjoyable experience for me.

[quote="kdp59"]It's ok with me if Kyrie leaves and we endure the " process.

what process...the process of winning you mean?

someone posted on he game on thread that we are 11-2 without the diva this year. and we all know how we played in last years playoffs.

move on Danny!!![/quote----------------------I'm impressed with your ability to foretell the future from an an extremely limited sample size .Perhaps you can contact DA directly and share your expertise with him. As for last years playoffs, I seem to remember the Celtics being eliminated in a godawful 7th game shooting performance, but yeah , we were 11-7. If that's your definition of success, more power to you.

I posted we are 11-2 this year without Kyrie on the floor. Someone else posted that this year we are 3-2 vs. playoff level teams without Kyrie. In the playoffs last year, this same team minus GW, Wanamaker, and Kyrie plus Landry was 11-8 in the playoffs. Does that mean we should dump Kyrie? No, but it does mean we played better without him last year and better without him this year. He is a helluva player and on paper it looks like we area much better team with him on the roster. His stats are superb, but alas, the team's stats are not.

Quite confounding for a GM, no?

For sure, the team has lost its spirit on D and gets stagnant on O. Kyrie's fault? Brad's? Must be Wanamaker and Williams screwing up the team chemistry, since they are the only 2 new additions, no?

Like it or not, Kyrie is the key to this year's playoffs. As to the future, Ainge is not dumping him, but he may leave of his own accord. If he does, be prepared for several years of mediocrity. No significant free agents are joining a team where Horford and Hayward are the best players and Anthony Davis, if traded for, will have little incentive to stay. Ainge will have to rebuild through the draft . That's the reality. Hence, my previous reference to the "process."