Re: Jaylen and Jayson

by **dboss** Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:24 pm

I would not trade either Tatum or Brown for any cuurrent center in the NBA.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:13 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
worcester wrote:I never liked Josh Jackson either. Sure glad Danny is a better judge of talent than the Sun's GM, the Lakers old GM, and the Sixers GM.

Speaking of the Lakers, they could have drafted both Jaylen and Jayson, imagine those 2 playing with Lebron right now...???

That team would be unbeatable even without AD, they wouldn’t even need him. Thank the hoop gods things turned out the way they did....

Cow,

You're right! I completely forgot they picked #2 right before us both times, taking Ingram and Ball (which, to their credit, turned into AD).

Imagine if it went the other way. Imagine if Danny had taken Ingram because LAL passed on him and took Brown instead (if Brown was off the table he might, if LAL had passed on Ingram) and if they had taken Tatum instead of Ball. They could have too. Danny traded the #1 pick to Philly before draft day. He was banking on Magic following through on his public commitment to draft Ball but imagine if, after Danny gave up the #1 pick and they had the pick of the rest of the litter they took Tatum. We'd have Ingram, who is starting to fulfill his potential, and Lonzo Ball. And LAL could still get AD and maybe only give up one of the two, packaging Kuzma and one of the two.

Trader Danny would be working overtime now trying to remedy that. As it is, both of those two players are untouchable. Danny will break the piggy bank to re-sign Tatum unless KAT becomes available (Embiid too, but he won't be available unless we pry him out of Elton Brand's cold dead fingers).

bob

.

That wouldn’t be fair, if they had gotten 2 J’s, then figured out a way to keep both, with or without AD, that’s a dynasty in the making, right now and for years after Lebron retires. Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t trade either J for AD, once you have both, you have to keep them together, but either way it was all there for the taking, Magic could have jumpstarted his Lakers dynasty with those 2....whew!!!!!

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:21 pm

dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
worcester wrote:I never liked Josh Jackson either. Sure glad Danny is a better judge of talent than the Sun's GM, the Lakers old GM, and the Sixers GM.

Speaking of the Lakers, they could have drafted both Jaylen and Jayson, imagine those 2 playing with Lebron right now...???

That team would be unbeatable even without AD, they wouldn’t even need him. Thank the hoop gods things turned out the way they did....

He is in the g league and has been suspended for one game.

I am so glad they passed on him.

He got suspended already...??? One of reasons Suns got rid of him was he blew off so many professional appointments/appearances, without even notifying anyone, plus had more bad personal issues....you don’t do that to a franchise, especially when your a marginal unproven player.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:24 pm

worcester wrote:How many four leaf clovers does Danny have stashed away in his wallet? What an amazingly lucky GM he has been. Imagine Jaylen and Jayson in LA. Whew. We dodged two bullets!!!

Brass balls man

by **bobheckler** Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:00 am

by **tjmakz** Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:54 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
worcester wrote:I never liked Josh Jackson either. Sure glad Danny is a better judge of talent than the Sun's GM, the Lakers old GM, and the Sixers GM.

Speaking of the Lakers, they could have drafted both Jaylen and Jayson, imagine those 2 playing with Lebron right now...???

That team would be unbeatable even without AD, they wouldn’t even need him. Thank the hoop gods things turned out the way they did....

Cow,

You're right! I completely forgot they picked #2 right before us both times, taking Ingram and Ball (which, to their credit, turned into AD).

Imagine if it went the other way. Imagine if Danny had taken Ingram because LAL passed on him and took Brown instead (if Brown was off the table he might, if LAL had passed on Ingram) and if they had taken Tatum instead of Ball. They could have too. Danny traded the #1 pick to Philly before draft day. He was banking on Magic following through on his public commitment to draft Ball but imagine if, after Danny gave up the #1 pick and they had the pick of the rest of the litter they took Tatum. We'd have Ingram, who is starting to fulfill his potential, and Lonzo Ball. And LAL could still get AD and maybe only give up one of the two, packaging Kuzma and one of the two.

Trader Danny would be working overtime now trying to remedy that. As it is, both of those two players are untouchable. Danny will break the piggy bank to re-sign Tatum unless KAT becomes available (Embiid too, but he won't be available unless we pry him out of Elton Brand's cold dead fingers).

bob

.

That wouldn’t be fair, if they had gotten 2 J’s, then figured out a way to keep both, with or without AD, that’s a dynasty in the making, right now and for years after Lebron retires. Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t trade either J for AD, once you have both, you have to keep them together, but either way it was all there for the taking, Magic could have jumpstarted his Lakers dynasty with those 2....whew!!!!!

The Lakers drafted Ingram one spot ahead of Boston, which I am pretty sure Boston would have done also.
Ingram is having a better year than Brown and was a key part of the Lakers trading for AD who might be the best all-around player in the NBA.
It's rare to acquire a player like AD in a trade.
Yes, the Lakers missed on Ball over Tatum.
Tatum was a great score for Boston.

by **dbrown4** Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:56 am

At this stage, worcester, there's no luck involved. It's all high-level skill. Some feel, but mostly skill. I think Danny can go to the owners at any time, any day and ask for whatever he wants and have it delivered on a silver platter.

db

by **dboss** Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:19 pm

Hindsight is 20/20 vision. Every team misses.

The odds however favor teams who draft at the top.

I think the Celtics would have drafted Ingram but I am glad they got Brown instead. There is something to be said for having an efficient scorer who can also defend 1-4. That makes Brown a better player than Ingram.

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:22 pm

Danny never would have traded down from the 1 position unless he was sure the player he wanted would still be available. I also doubt he considered Fultz, Ball, and Tatum equal, and would have been happy with any one of the three. Neither Fultz not Ball are Ainge-type players, whereas JT is basically Ainge's dream.

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:27 pm

I’m not sure Danny would have drafted Ingram over Jaylen, and love all Jaylen brings better than Ingram, who’s getting more shots on a depleted team....

by **Shamrock1000** Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:30 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:I’m not sure Danny would have drafted Ingram over Jaylen, and love all Jaylen brings better than Ingram, who’s getting more shots on a depleted team....

Yeah, Ingram vs Brown is a different thing than JT vs Fultz/Ball. Ingram is turning into a player...

by **worcester** Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:33 pm

TJ, I have to give credit to the Lakers for passing out what must somehow be a very strong intoxicant to their fans such as you. When Ball was picked you were 100% on board with that, and then you defended him at length through his rough entry period into the NBA. Let's face it. He's been a major bust as a #2 pick. Ingram has been a lot better, but he is no Jaylen Brown. He's a good scorer as is Jaylen but he is not even in the same league as Jaylen on D. The Lakers have a fine team this year with AD, Lebron, and Rondo, but it is a long season, and I'll be rooting against them all year. Otherwise I wish you luck in all your other endeavors. W

by **dboss** Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:22 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:I’m not sure Danny would have drafted Ingram over Jaylen, and love all Jaylen brings better than Ingram, who’s getting more shots on a depleted team....

Cow few people ever heard of JB on this board. Ingram on the other hand was a high profile player at an elite school for elite basketball talent. We saw Ingram play many times on televised Duke games.

I do not believe for one minute that Danny passes on Ingram to select Brown. In any event Simmons and Ingram were rated 1, 2 going into the draft.

If you recall Ingram was being projected as the next KD.

In any event Danny still ended up with the best player in that draft.

by **dboss** Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:29 pm

worcester wrote:TJ, I have to give credit to the Lakers for passing out what must somehow be a very strong intoxicant to their fans such as you. When Ball was picked you were 100% on board with that, and then you defended him at length through his rough entry period into the NBA. Let's face it. He's been a major bust as a #2 pick. Ingram has been a lot better, but he is no Jaylen Brown. He's a good scorer as is Jaylen but he is not even in the same league as Jaylen on D. The Lakers have a fine team this year with AD, Lebron, and Rondo, but it is a long season, and I'll be rooting against them all year. Otherwise I wish you luck in all your other endeavors. W

Worcester according to the Advanced rating Ingram has a net rating of -6.2. his defensive rating is in the 114 per game range.

There is no way Ingram is having a better year than Brown.

by **worcester** Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:30 pm

Agreed.

by **tjmakz** Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:36 pm

worcester wrote:TJ, I have to give credit to the Lakers for passing out what must somehow be a very strong intoxicant to their fans such as you. When Ball was picked you were 100% on board with that, and then you defended him at length through his rough entry period into the NBA. Let's face it. He's been a major bust as a #2 pick. Ingram has been a lot better, but he is no Jaylen Brown. He's a good scorer as is Jaylen but he is not even in the same league as Jaylen on D. The Lakers have a fine team this year with AD, Lebron, and Rondo, but it is a long season, and I'll be rooting against them all year. Otherwise I wish you luck in all your other endeavors. W

Worcester,

I was all for Ball over Fultz. I was one of the few people here that didn't drink the cool-aid of Fultz.
That can be proven by pulling up old threads.
I always liked Tatum a lot but didn't think he should be taken over Ball because I couldn't stand the idea of having Russell as the Lakers PG of the future and the Lakers just drafted Ingram.
We as fans take a snap shot of how players are currently doing.
Jaylen was nothign special last year and playing very well this year.
Lonzo could make a big jump at some point. He has talent.
I am not sure he ever will and don't care a whole lot because he is now New Orleans problem or asset.

While many here were drooling over Fultz in green in 2017, here were a couple of my posts.

fultz - Fultz's comments on potentially playing with IT Empty Re: Fultz's comments on potentially playing with IT
Post by tjmakz on Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:23 pm

Fultz is not an elite defender at all.
I'm not even sure he's a good defender.
I am not as high on Fultz as many are.
He has a reputation for not giving his all.
He seems to play with no urgency or fire in him.
Watch some full game highlights of him on youtube if you can.
In my opinion, Fultz is no lock for the #1 pick.

Re: Fultz's comments on potentially playing with IT
Post by tjmakz on Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:36 pm

fierce wrote:
I think part of the reason why Fultz has a casual approach to the game is because he can do whatever he wants on the court.
He makes it look so easy.

He was a good scorer on a very bad team.
He plays at 1/2 speed.
He's no Westbrook, Lillard, Lowry or similar players who play at full speed.
The more I watch his game video (not just his best highlights), the more I am concerned about his internal motor.

by **tjmakz** Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:54 pm

dboss wrote:
worcester wrote:TJ, I have to give credit to the Lakers for passing out what must somehow be a very strong intoxicant to their fans such as you. When Ball was picked you were 100% on board with that, and then you defended him at length through his rough entry period into the NBA. Let's face it. He's been a major bust as a #2 pick. Ingram has been a lot better, but he is no Jaylen Brown. He's a good scorer as is Jaylen but he is not even in the same league as Jaylen on D. The Lakers have a fine team this year with AD, Lebron, and Rondo, but it is a long season, and I'll be rooting against them all year. Otherwise I wish you luck in all your other endeavors. W

Worcester according to the Advanced rating Ingram has a net rating of -6.2. his defensive rating is in the 114 per game range.

There is no way Ingram is having a better year than Brown.

New Orleans defensive rating is 114 per game and their offensive rating is 107.2. 26th worst differential in the league.
Of course Brown will have a better net rating because he plays on a much better team.

Boston has a net rating of +7.9 when Jaylen is on the court and +7.9 when he is off the court.

New Orleans has a net rating of -6.4 when Ingram is on the court and -6.8 when Ingram is off the court.

So, out of those two players, Ingram is the only one whose team is statistically better when he is on the court.

by **worcester** Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:13 pm

So now we think Ingram is on a par with Jaylen defensively or even better?

OMG TJ, you've just proven my point again about the power of Laker Kool Aid. I know a couple of political campaigns who would kill to get that secret formula.

by **tjmakz** Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:18 pm

worcester wrote:So now we think Ingram is on a par with Jaylen defensively or even better?

OMG TJ, you've just proven my point again about the power of Laker Kool Aid. I know a couple of political campaigns who would kill to get that secret formula.

When did I say that?
I think Ingram is a better offensive player and Brown is a better defensive player.
But, Ingram is a very good defensive player and Brown is a very good offensive player.
Nobody can prove that one is better than the other. It's just about personal opinion.

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:12 pm

Jaylen is much faster in the open floor, can cover more positions, Ingram more of a finese tweener. Jaylen also much stronger and more explosive. I'd take Jaylen 7 days a week, not even close...
.

by **worcester** Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:26 pm

TJ, that's how I interpreted this comment -
"So, out of those two players, Ingram is the only one whose team is statistically better when he is on the court."

But no big deal. They are both very good players. I just think Jaylen is a better defender and in the long run probably has a more durable body for NBA play. The future shall reveal...

by **tjmakz** Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:52 pm

worcester wrote:TJ, that's how I interpreted this comment -
"So, out of those two players, Ingram is the only one whose team is statistically better when he is on the court."

But no big deal. They are both very good players. I just think Jaylen is a better defender and in the long run probably has a more durable body for NBA play. The future shall reveal...

My comment in no way even hinted that Ingram is a better defender.
Ingram is a very versatile defender against 1-3 positions.
Because of his body still being thin, he’s not effective guarding 4’s.

Boston is statistically the same whether Jaylen is on or off the court.
That just shows how good Boston is as a team.

To me it’s a coin flip between the two.
It’s not a coin flip between Tatum, Ball/Fultz.
It’s Tatum in a landslide.

by **dboss** Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:34 pm

tjmakz wrote:
worcester wrote:TJ, that's how I interpreted this comment -
"So, out of those two players, Ingram is the only one whose team is statistically better when he is on the court."

But no big deal. They are both very good players. I just think Jaylen is a better defender and in the long run probably has a more durable body for NBA play. The future shall reveal...

My comment in no way even hinted that Ingram is a better defender.
Ingram is a very versatile defender against 1-3 positions.
Because of his body still being thin, he’s not effective guarding 4’s.

Boston is statistically the same whether Jaylen is on or off the court.
That just shows how good Boston is as a team.

To me it’s a coin flip between the two.
It’s not a coin flip between Tatum, Ball/Fultz.
It’s Tatum in a landslide.

Ingram is having an outstanding year on offense. However Brown is as well and takes less FGA per game.

TJ you did say that Ingram was having a better year but neglecting to mention defense means omly half the truth has been told.

by **bobheckler** Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:31 pm

Dboss and TJ,

FWIW,

Player...................Offensive Rtg.....Defensive Rtg......Net Rtg
Ingram..................112....................114.......................-2
Brown...................114....................104.......................+10

bob

.

by **tjmakz** Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:42 pm

bobheckler wrote:Dboss and TJ,

FWIW,

Player...................Offensive Rtg.....Defensive Rtg......Net Rtg
Ingram..................112....................114.......................-2
Brown...................114....................104.......................+10

bob

.

It’s impossible to compare ratings from a player in a good team vs a player on a bad team.
On nba.com Jaylen has a defensive rating of 103.4 which is 13th best on the Celtics.
Only Kemba, RW and Green have a worse rating.

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