Hayward trade rumors

NYCelt wrote:

worcester wrote:I have to split the gold with my dive partners, so $24 M. Enough to pay Marcus' salary for a couple of years.

W -

One more issue; you have to declare the value of found gold and pay tax on it.

You're in FL right? No personal income tax, but the Fed bite is going to be a good 40% or so on that $24 mil value.

That's not going to be enough to pay Marcus after your split and have a little mad money for you. That new Lamborghini ain't coming cheap you know.

Maybe better to lose the partners and see if you can pick up a couple lower cost employees in the labor market.

Regards

NYCelt,

Nothing a faulty Stage 2 dive regulator can't fix.


Bob


.

This is an interesting story about Hayward.
Could he follow what Horford did and sign a multi-year offer with a different team?

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/10/gordon-hayward-rumors-hes-doing-the-al-horford-plan-something-is-mildly-afoot-here-per-espns-lowe-post-podcast.html

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/10/gordon-hayward-rumors-hes-doing-the-al-horford-plan-something-is-mildly-afoot-here-per-espns-lowe-post-podcast.html



Gordon Hayward rumors: ‘He’s doing the Al Horford plan,’ & ‘something is mildly afoot here’ per ESPN’s Lowe Post podcast
Updated 3:59 PM; Today 3:59 PM




Boston Celtics forward Gordon Hayward (20) reacts after making a three-point basket against the Orlando Magic during the first half of an NBA basketball game Sunday, Aug. 9, 2020, in Lake Buena Vista, Fla. (Kim Klement/Pool Photo via AP)AP


By John Karalis | JKaralis@masslive.com



The biggest question of the Boston Celtics offseason is Gordon Hayward’s decision regarding his $34.2 million player option. He could simply opt-in, he could opt-out and re-sign a long-term deal to stay in Boston, or he could simply opt-out and leave.

Leaving would be bit of a shock considering there aren’t many teams with cap space this offseason and Boston is better than all of them. However, the recent report that the Indiana Pacers are possibly interested in trading for Hayward may be signaling something.

“There’s some buzz out there. And I can’t figure out what the buzz means,” ESPN’s Zach Lowe said on the latest Lowe Post podcast. “The buzz that I’m hearing is like the smoke, the smoke indicating that something is happening. I’m not sure what’s up, but I don’t think it’s a lock that Gordon Hayward is on the Celtics next year.”

Lowe’s guest, ESPN’s front office insider and former Brooklyn Nets assistant GM Bobby Marks, says Hayward is very likely exploring the open market to get a sense for what his options might be.

“I think what his agent Mark Bartelstein is doing right now is canvassing the league. He’s doing the Al Horford plan,” Marks said, referencing the surprise Horford move to Philadelphia on a four-year, $109 million contract.

Lowe is careful to say “We don’t know that there’s a Gordon Hayward chase. We don’t know that any of this is happening. I’m just saying that there’s a little bit of buzz.” He also added, “something is mildly afoot here.”

Players in Hayward’s situation have to explore their options just like the Celtics have to explore theirs. The business of the NBA makes an option year like Hayward’s potentially messy, so it makes sense for his agent to explore the market and gauge interest.

It also helps inform Hayward of what his decision should be. The buzz could simply be Bartelstein getting a sense of how much teams like Hayward as a negotiation tactic. Hayward’s goal could simply be to opt out and re-sign in Boston with his agent’s canvassing setting the bar for talks with Danny Ainge.

The key in negotiations is leverage, and there’s really only one team with enough money to give that to Hayward.

“I think Atlanta is a wild card in this whole offseason here as far as adding guys, veteran guys trying to kind of accelerate the rebuild a little bit now,” Marks said. “And how does Gordon Hayward fit in there at a $24, $25 million number because they’ve got the cap space to do it.”

As Lowe notes, Atlanta is “yearning” to make the playoffs, and they could look at Hayward as a veteran option to help the young players along. He helped Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, so the Hawks could be interested in Hayward helping their young players like Cam Reddish find some success.

Whatever is happening here, it seems that Hayward’s camp is at least getting a lay of the land. What his motivations are, as of right now, remain a mystery.


Bob
MY NOTE:  On one hand I cannot blame his agent for doing what agents are paid to do, find out what a "good deal" for their client is.  On the other hand, "F him".  He has vastly underperformed on his contract-to-date.  I realize his injuries weren't his fault but nevertheless his contributions are not what we had a right to expect from a max player.  If he's "shopping us" then he can drop dead.  I think we the fans, as well as management, have been very patient with him.  I like Gordon, I think he's the type of Swiss Army Knife that could help us a lot, but given his last 3 years I'm expecting some loyalty from him.  Compare Gordon "playing the field" vs Jaylen Brown knowing he wanted to be here, in green and no other colors, and cut the right deal for everybody.


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NYCelt, Actually I have to pay federal income tax on any treasures I may find only after I sell the items, whatever they may be. Not before. Also,  I could use the treasure if gold or silver as collateral for a loan, and I wouldn't have to pay tax on the loan, just the interest, which should be low considering the rock solid collateral the bank would have in its vault. Of course, I would have to pay income tax on any profits I generated from the loan.

I can't lose the partners at this point. We joined at the scuba tanks.

BTW, for a superb experience, watch Netflix's My Octopus Teacher.

worcester wrote:NYCelt, Actually I have to pay federal income tax on any treasures I may find only after I sell the items, whatever they may be. Not before. Also,  I could use the treasure if gold or silver as collateral for a loan, and I wouldn't have to pay tax on the loan, just the interest, which should be low considering the rock solid collateral the bank would have in its vault. Of course, I would have to pay income tax on any profits I generated from the loan.

I can't lose the partners at this point. We joined at the scuba tanks.

BTW, for a superb experience, watch Netflix's My Octopus Teacher.

W -

I was being (somewhat) funny, of course, but seriously, the gold thing, may be best to run that one by your accountant. The Treasury Dept is a little funny about found precious metals. Naturally, that is if you're fortunate enough to find precious metals on a dive!

You may have seen Bob H's solution to the partner part of the equation.

Tough crowd in here!

Retgards

Yes NYC, and Bob was going to be one of my dive partners!

worcester wrote:Yes NYC, and Bob was going to be one of my dive partners!

Worcester,

Been there, done that, almost had the pulmonary embolism to prove it.

(Cozumel, mid-80s, 75' down).

Glad you lived to see another day.

It is so nice of you to want to share your bullions with young millionaires. BUT....listen to your accountant, NY Celt, you could be in the hole for millions as they walk into the sunlight with their $$$$$

bobheckler wrote:https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/10/gordon-hayward-rumors-hes-doing-the-al-horford-plan-something-is-mildly-afoot-here-per-espns-lowe-post-podcast.html



Gordon Hayward rumors: ‘He’s doing the Al Horford plan,’ & ‘something is mildly afoot here’ per ESPN’s Lowe Post podcast
Updated 3:59 PM; Today 3:59 PM






Bob
MY NOTE:  On one hand I cannot blame his agent for doing what agents are paid to do, find out what a "good deal" for their client is.  On the other hand, "F him".  He has vastly underperformed on his contract-to-date.  I realize his injuries weren't his fault but nevertheless his contributions are not what we had a right to expect from a max player.  If he's "shopping us" then he can drop dead.  I think we the fans, as well as management, have been very patient with him.  I like Gordon, I think he's the type of Swiss Army Knife that could help us a lot, but given his last 3 years I'm expecting some loyalty from him.  Compare Gordon "playing the field" vs Jaylen Brown knowing he wanted to be here, in green and no other colors, and cut the right deal for everybody.


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I don't blame Hayward for doing due diligence here at all. it is a business and one has to take care of oneself first off. IF Haywards agents knows another team is willing to sign him for anew max deal this off-season, Hayward needs to know that.

However it would be a lot worst if Hayward does what Horford did last season here. Last year we had some ways to maneuver under the cap, this year we DO NOT.

If Hayward opts out we will still be OVER the likely salary cap still, with our holds. That would leave Ainge in a not good spot.

Perhaps IF Hayward does want to opt out and sign elsewhere, Ainge/Stevens can work with his agent to find a way for the Celtics to get some type of return . But that would be Haywards decision not the teams.

I think of it this way...why shouldn't he look around? What if he can get a deal to go near home instead of Danny shipping him to Sacramento. no man's land???? Everyone is in charge of their own life. This has been a flipping nightmare for him, I am sure. No one works harder getting back from an injury than him. He even went out on the floor when he should never have been there.

This whole topic is just getting old. And....f....him???? What has he done to deserve that type of an attitude from a Celtics fan. Listen, I love the Celtics, no one could care more about where they are heading. This will be done, we will have no control over it, and if he goes or if he stays, I will always consider him a Celtic as he has done whatever he can to help whenever possible.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/celtics-offseason-preview-one-gordon-hayward-trade-destination-stands-out-but-his-fate-is-still-in-question/



One Gordon Hayward trade destination stands out, but his fate is still in question


Boston has some decisions to make with Hayward and the luxury tax
 
   

By Sam Quinn
57 mins ago




USATSI


The Boston Celtics may not have reached the 2020 NBA Finals, but they have a credible claim to the title of "best team in the Eastern Conference." They outscored the Miami Heat in an Eastern finals series that they lost in six games, the first two of which were played without Gordon Hayward. Their second-round series followed a similar trajectory. Despite Hayward's absence, they actually outplayed the Toronto Raptors somewhat easily, winning the series by 38 points but needing seven games to seal the deal. Their regular-season resume doesn't hold a candle to the Milwaukee Bucks', but remember, their five best players missed 70 combined games. We barely saw Boston's completed roster, and it still almost reached the Finals.

There are weaknesses to be addressed, but the reasons the Celtics lost aren't necessarily fixable through offseason moves. It really boiled down to bad luck late in games. They outscored regular-season opponents by 4.4 points per 100 possessions in clutch situations, and then got outscored by 23.7 points per 100 by the Raptors and Heat. Nothing they do this offseason could prevent, say, OG Anunoby's miraculous Game 3 buzzer-beater. Clutch numbers, even in the playoffs, tend to be somewhat random outside of a few isolated superstars. Jayson Tatum projects as an ideal late-game closer. He's going to get better with another postseason under his belt.

The Celtics don't have to go all-in yet. All evidence suggests that they're already close to a championship-caliber team, and neither of their two best players have seen their 25th birthday yet. That should lead to a wider scope for the Celtics this offseason. Their moves aren't necessarily going to be based purely on winning right now. They can focus on the three-to-five-year window that they almost certainly have. Expect younger targets and financial prudence as we preview Boston's 2020 offseason.

One note before beginning: We will be using Spotrac for player salaries, and 2019-20 cap numbers for this exercise as a whole. That includes previously agreed-upon numbers like the rookie scale and the minimum salary. A frozen cap is the likeliest outcome of negotiations between the league and the NBPA, but these numbers could theoretically change in either direction.

Under the assumption that the 2019-20 numbers will be used, these are the pertinent numbers for these projections.

Salary cap.................................................................$109,140,000  

Luxury tax.................................................................$132,627,000  

Luxury tax apron........................................................$138,928,000  

Salary floor................................................................$98,226,000  

Non-taxpayer mid-level exception (Year 1).....................$9,258,000  

Taxpayer mid-level exception (Year 1)............................$5,718,000  

Cap room mid-level exception (Year 1)...........................$4,767,000  

Bi-annual exception......................................................$3,623,000


Cap situation and overall finances

Boston may or may not have a championship roster yet, but it is certainly paying for one. The Celtics are a staggering $17 million above the 2019-20 luxury tax line at this moment. Before a single move is made, these obligations would create a $36 million tax payment in addition to their total salary.

Players......................................2020-21 Salary

Kemba Walker.............................$34,379,100

Gordon Hayward*........................$34,187,085

Jaylen Brown...............................$23,883,929

Marcus Smart..............................$13,446,428

Jayson Tatum...............................$9,897,120

Enes Kanter*...............................$5,005,350

Daniel Theis**.............................$5,000,000

Romeo Langford...........................$3,631,200

Vincent Poirier..............................$2,619,207

Grant Williams.............................$2,498,760

Robert Williams............................$2,029,920

Semi Ojeleye**............................$1,752,950

Carsen Edwards...........................$1,517,981

Javonte Green**..........................$1,517,981

Guerschon Yabusele (dead salary)..$1,039,080

Demetrius Jackson (dead salary)....$92,857

No. 14 pick..................................$3,458,400

No. 26 pick..................................$2,035,800

No. 30 pick..................................$1,936,440

Total...........................................$149,929,588

*player option
**non-guaranteed

The Celtics' financial commitments are so great that they literally can't fit all of them on the roster. They currently have 17 players and first-round picks for 15 slots. That doesn't even include restricted free agent Brad Wanamaker, who may simply lose a game of musical chairs here (especially if the Celtics want to give his minutes to their younger guards). They have moves to make, and expect them to be aggressive. Boston is heavily incentivized to avoid the tax this season.

Jaylen Brown's second contract kicks in next season. Jayson Tatum's is coming, and may cost 30 percent of the cap, thanks to the Rose Rule, which states that a team is not allowed to have two designated players on their roster at the same time. Kemba Walker is making the max for the next three years. Oh, and Marcus Smart is only two seasons away from a new contract of his own. The Celtics are going to be expensive for the foreseeable future. The dreaded repeater tax triggers after three consecutive tax seasons, or when a team pays it four years out of five. The Celtics might be willing to pay up eventually, but no ownership group is going to pay it forever. Savings now could keep Boston's window open a year longer down the road.

There are smaller moves that could help save some money. Vincent Poirier is almost certainly getting dumped in a trade. He isn't playing for this team next season. Enes Kanter is more expensive, but fits the same mold. They will almost certainly trade away some or all of their draft picks. But those are supplementary moves. Their tax status is going to come down to Gordon Hayward and that enormous $34.2 million player option.

Do the Celtics want him back? Maybe. Hayward is still a valuable player when healthy, and he's an insurance policy against a prolonged absence from Tatum or Brown. There are theoretical financial benefits to him opting in. His contract is expiring, so Boston could resolve to keep him, take another run at the title, and then let him walk just as its roster hits its most expensive point. A trade, on the other hand, likely brings in long-term money. A potential path to repeater tax avoision might involve paying it next season, and then ducking below the line for the 2021-22 season. That at least buys Boston time.

What can't be denied is this: If Hayward opts into that $34.2 million figure and remains in Boston, the Celtics are paying the tax. They would probably prefer not to do that, so it's worth discussing the four possible ways they could avoid that.

Hayward opts out based on a pre-arranged extension. He would have to cut his 2020-21 salary in half to get the Celtics below the tax. That's a four-year pact at around $76 million. He isn't taking that, but there's a framework here. Say Hayward demands $100 million over four years. That's a first-year salary hovering around $22 million, putting them a couple of cap dumps away from the tax line. The downside, of course, is that it means committing three extra expensive years to Hayward.

Hayward opts out and leaves for nothing. Boston goes from deep in tax territory to far enough below the line to use the full mid-level exception comfortably. The argument here is, essentially, that Hayward is better than anyone they could sign with that exception, but not so much better that he warrants a tax bill for that meager gap. This is a weak market, and that exception could get Boston a strong player. Danilo Gallinari wants to sign with a winner. Would you rather have Gallinari for $9.3 million, or Hayward for $34.2 million? This is the least likely scenario. Hayward shouldn't turn down $34.2 million in a depressed market given his injury history, but it can't be ruled out.

Hayward opts out and cooperates on a sign-and-trade. This makes Hayward available to most of the NBA, with the only exceptions being the contenders unable to hard-cap themselves by acquiring a player through sign-and-trade (think Golden State and Philadelphia). The fact that Hayward could negotiate a new salary with the acquiring team removes the primary financial obstacle, as they would be able to find a number that both facilitates a trade and makes sense on their books for the long haul.

Hayward opts in, and Boston trades him wherever it wants. This would keep Hayward's larger cap figure intact, but open the entire NBA up as possible trade partners, as a Hayward acquisition in this manner wouldn't trigger a hard cap. All it would take would be around $27.4 million in matching salary. That's easier for some teams than others. Not everyone can afford a $34.2 million acquisition. Those that can, however, wouldn't have to make a long-term commitment to Hayward.

None of this rules out a possible return to Boston, but the Celtics have real reason to move on from Hayward, at least at his current cap figure. There are pros and cons to each of these methods, and we'll discuss them in a bit more depth later on. For now, let's pivot into Boston's (surprisingly barren) cupboard of draft picks, and how that might inform the Hayward situation.


Draft capital

2020 picks: Nos. 14, 26, 30, 47
Owed future first-round picks: N/A
Incoming future first-round picks: N/A

Remember when Boston had a seemingly endless war chest of future draft picks to dangle in trades? Well, that's gone now. If the 2020 NBA Draft passes without a deal, the Celtics would not own a single draft pick from another team for the first time in nearly a decade. This should be categorized as extremely unlikely. The Celtics have 14 players and four draft picks. They couldn't keep everyone even if they wanted to. There are going to be trades.

In a perfect world, Boston would probably prefer not to use any of these picks. Who are the Celtics going to draft, even at No. 14, that would definitely play for them next season? This has been a common theme for Boston over the past decade:  It has so many draft picks that each subsequent pick becomes less valuable because there just aren't any available minutes to develop them with. The Celtics already have Romeo Langford, Robert Williams, Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards in the pipeline. The last thing they need is more developmental talent.

If the Celtics do use a pick, the goal should be to take a foreign prospect that they don't need to bring over yet. If they resolve to trade all of them, there are three logical goals:

Dump salary: This should be relatively simple. Cap space teams are usually open to taking on bad money in exchange for draft capital. The Knicks stand out as an easy example here. They have more cap space than they could possibly use, but as the Marcus Morris trade proved, they value late first-round picks. The Knicks would probably take on Kanter and Poirer to get their hands on No. 26 and No. 47. Atlanta, who took on Allen Crabbe from Brooklyn last offseason, is another option in this vein.

Acquire a future pick: The longer the Celtics can wait to avoid making a pick, the better. That gives them more flexibility in trade talks, and prevents them from taking a player they won't use. The No. 14 pick obviously has the most value. This draft isn't top-heavy, but the consensus is that good players will be available through the first round. All they'd need is one team to fall in love with a particular prospect and boom, the Celtics have a trade partner.

Include a pick in a Hayward deal as a sweetener: Many of the players Boston might target with Hayward are more valuable than he is. They might need to sweeten the pot a bit, and their own future picks are expected to be so low that they aren't particularly valuable.

If Boston does wind up keeping its picks, there isn't an easy need to identify. Yes, it could use improvement at center and backup point guard, but it already have prospects there. The Celtics don't have any young, up-and-coming wings on the bench, but they have two future stars there. That makes this simple: If they keep any of their picks and take players it expects to roster next season, they'll just lean on the best available prospect. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. There will almost certainly be a place for some of their picks in Hayward talks, at the very least.


Trade options

Boston's trade outlook is almost entirely based on Hayward. Tatum and Brown aren't going anywhere. The city might revolt if Smart got dealt, and Walker's contract would limit the return beyond a worthwhile point. Any major Celtics trade would have to be built around Hayward, and there are two routes the Celtics could take here. The obvious is to try to use Hayward to upgrade their biggest weakness: center. Bam Adebayo killed the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals, but dealing Hayward for a big man could offer Boston an antidote to the NBA's best bigs. Four established names stand out.

Myles Turner is the name you're going to hear most often, both in Boston talks and rumors involving other teams, and rightfully so. Indiana has two expensive centers and seems to prefer the idea of only keeping one. Turner's shooting and rim protection makes him a fit almost anywhere, but especially in Boston. Think back on Brad Stevens' big men. Al Horford, Aron Baynes and Daniel Theis can all shoot. He prizes five-out spacing, and Turner could provide it. Reports have suggested that the Pacers are interested in Hayward, an Indiana native. Boston would probably have to include another asset. That likely wouldn't bother Danny Ainge. Money is a concern as well. The small-market Pacers aren't coming close to the tax, so this would either need to be a cheaper sign-and-trade or a bigger deal involving multiple players. Turner makes around half as much as Hayward, but the injured Jeremy Lamb stands out as salary the Pacers probably wouldn't mind dumping. Turner, based on his age and shooting, is probably Boston's preferred target.

Steven Adams is probably available, and what he lacks in shooting, he makes up for as a rebounder. The Thunder might take Hayward as salary filler, but wouldn't view him as a positive rebuilding asset. This is, realistically, a three-team trade involving another team that values him more. The Celtics would ship Hayward to a team that would, in turn, pay Oklahoma City for Adams before shipping him off to Boston. The salaries are closer here, with Adams making $27.5 million.

Nobody knows if Rudy Gobert is on the block, but sooner or later, the Jazz are going to have to make a decision on the supermax contract he is already eligible for. Gobert will be 29 before that contract kicks in and 34 when it ends. If they want to take a step back and find younger assets to pair with Donovan Mitchell, Gobert is their logical trade piece. Boston would probably be at the back of the line to start given its lack of high-upside assets, but if a better deal doesn't materialize, something around Hayward along with a combination of the Celtics' young players and picks could get a deal done. The irony of Hayward returning to Utah in a deal shipping out Gobert would be delicious.

One more center name to watch: Jarrett Allen. There isn't a way to make the money work with Hayward, but maybe as part of a three- or four-team deal, or even as a swap involving some of Boston's 2020 picks. The Nets seem deadset on DeAndre Jordan as their starting center. The Celtics would love a clear starting-caliber big man on a rookie deal. So would most teams.

The alternative route is to trade Hayward with the understanding that such a deal would make the Celtics worse next season. In exchange, they could save money and pick up some future assets.

Miami has an interesting set of expiring deals in Andre Iguodala and Kelly Olynyk (another shooting big man Stevens knows well), and the Heat pitched Hayward in 2017 free agency. A rules quirk makes it tough for the Heat to access their future draft picks for trades, but it's doable if necessary. The real question is how motivated Boston would be to help the Heat right now.

Portland could use a wing upgrade, has expiring salary to trade and could offer some interesting young players (Zach Collins, Gary Trent Jr., Anfernee Simons, Nassir Little).

By internet law, we have to mention the Knicks in any trade talks involving a declining star. They'd prefer to sign him outright after an opt out, but if he opts in, the Celtics could try to extract some draft capital to move him into New York's cap space. That would also create a hefty trade exception.

Sticking to the desperate big-market motif, Otto Porter Jr.'s expiring contract and some draft picks make sense if the Bulls want to win right now.

There are plenty of other options. Hayward fits on almost any team, and if the Celtics want to move him, they shouldn't find it particularly difficult to do so.


What would an ideal offseason look like?

There are three scenarios on the table: one in which Hayward opts in and stays, one in which he is traded and one in which he leaves outright. An extension is possible, but given Boston's long-term financial outlook, it is probably the least likely.

If Hayward stays, the plan is probably to offload salary and commit to letting him go in 2021 in order to avoid paying that season's tax. This plan is straightforward. The Celtics would bring back the bulk of its 2019-20 team and hope that better health and luck along with some moves on the fringes would be enough to put them over the top. Kanter and Poirer are the easiest dumps. If the Celtics are willing to go deeper into the tax for a one-year free agent at the taxpayer mid-level exception, some of the older centers would probably be targeted. Dwight Howard might take that sort of offer. Boston would love to have Baynes back, but he should expect to get more. Paul Pierce openly pitched Tristan Thompson on joining the Celtics via buyout at the trade deadline. Maybe he'd consider a one-year offer if his market is dry? Ownership would probably prefer to avoid using the exception, though, and instead focus on developing the two incumbent young centers.

If Hayward leaves for nothing, go throw the full MLE at the best available player. The Celtics can be flexible positionally. If they sign a center, Smart gets a promotion into Hayward's starting slot. If it's another wing, turn around and offer the bi-annual exception to a cheaper center as an additional option there, and continue to bring Smart off the bench. Gallinari would be the best mid-level target under this scenario. He fits so cleanly into Hayward's role for a far lower price, and as well as Boston shot as a team last season, it lacked a single deadeye target. Gallinari fixes that. If the Celtics believe they have minutes for rookies in this situation, they also have the money to use their picks. A defensive-minded wing to complement Gallinari off the bench would be ideal at No. 14, and this draft has plenty.

If a Hayward trade comes, it almost has to be for a center. Turner should be the first choice, and if Stevens can get him to increase his 3-point volume meaningfully (a safe bet considering the Pacers were almost always at the bottom of the league under Nate McMillan), he might actually be a steal on his current contract. This should be viewed as Boston's best-case scenario overall. If the Celtics can swap Hayward for Turner, that could fill their biggest short- and long-term hole with a 24-year-old and potentially avoid the tax as an added bonus.

Door No. 1 is probably the likeliest. Door No. 2 creates the most optionality. Door No. 3 is the best-case scenario. The ball is in Hayward's court now, but no matter what he does, the Celtics can rest easy knowing that they're already comfortably in the championship conversation.


Bob



.

Hi,
All of the same. Mostly.
One thing I couldn't understand "... the Celtics can rest easy knowing that they're already comfortably in the championship conversation ..." I thought the goal of this team is to win championship...

AK

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
All of the same. Mostly.
One thing I couldn't understand "... the Celtics can rest easy knowing that they're already comfortably in the championship conversation ..." I thought the goal of this team is to win championship...

AK

the goal yes, but you have to be one of the top 4-5 teams in the NBA to get a chance at that goal. I think the Celtics were in that area this past season. We should be again, unless there is a major injury.

BTW, I promise I did NOT write that article......

kdp59 wrote:

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
All of the same. Mostly.
One thing I couldn't understand "... the Celtics can rest easy knowing that they're already comfortably in the championship conversation ..." I thought the goal of this team is to win championship...

AK

the goal yes, but you have to be one of the top 4-5 teams in the NBA to get a chance at that goal. I think the Celtics were in that area this past season. We should be again, unless there is a major injury.

BTW, I promise I did NOT write that article......

KDP59,
I know that you didn't write it. Your article would be much better.
As for my comment - the Celtics can not "rest easy" and "comfortably" being one of the top 4 teams. I bet Danny and Brad are pulling the last hairs trying to figure out why they're not the top 1 team (maybe they did already figure it out).
Also, as the last season/playoffs showed us you don't have to be the top 4-5 teams to get a chance to win the championship.

AK

no way...anything I write to short with bad spelling and punctuation !!


see?


I was referencing the M. Turner stuff to be honest

Discussing a potential Gordon Hayward trade is not a happy thing for me.  The Celtics will miss him and I hope they can find a way to retain him.   My gut feeling tells me he will opt in so this thread may prove to be premature.   We will get to see him next season and who knows what will happen in 2021.  There is no easy way to keep him but if the NYK called looking to add hometown guy Kemba Walker, I would move him in a NY minute.

Here is a trade that I thought about which would let us keep GH.

The Celtics Trade Kemba Walker to the KNY for Julius Randle $18.9M and Taj Gibson, $9.45 M.  Included in this trade is the 14th pick going to NY and the 8th pick goes to Boston.  This would be a great deal for Boston.  Randle has one years plus only $4 m guaranteed next year and Gibson has $1M guaranteed this year so the Knicks would need to fully guarantee his $9.45M  to make the numbers work.

This deal will make it easier to resign GH and the 8th pick can be traded if necessary or you probably can find a really good player at #8.  

This move will correct Danny's mistake of shelling out way too much cash on Kemba.  I do not dislike Kemba.  Him and GH are around the same age but GH clearly adds more to this team than Walker will ever add.  GH moves into our big three and his production takes a jump in scoring and everybody is happy.

As usual dboss, you and I are on the same page. I do want us to retain Gordon, albeit on a restructured deal, and moving Kemba to NYC would be great for us under the terms you've outlined. Here's how I'd like to see Gordon's deal go.

Currently he is pegged to get $34M from us for next year, but since the cap and league revenues will take a BIG hit, which will reduce players' actual revenues, he will under current terms of his contract most likely only get $24M. Help me out here Gyso, please. Also, since Trump will most likely win reelection next week (don't shoot me, I'm just a messenger), and since he may probably create a new tax law next year, Gordon stands to have a lower tax bill in 2022, 2023, and 2023. Thus he will want lower income in 2021 when his taxes are relatively higher and when his paycheck will suffer probably a 25% REDUCTION DUE TO the NBA's 2020 and 2021 COVID-19 CREATED LOSS OF INCOME. There will be 72 regular season games MAX in 2021 (which foreshadows at least a 10% reduction in gate receipts). I seriously doubt that Covid will be affecting league attendance in 2022, 2023, and 2024, thus paychecks will be higher in those years, a time when taxes may well be lower.

If Gordon were to restructure his contract so that he would earn $16-20M in 2020-21 (only a real drop of $4M to $8M) and have three more years added onto his contract at $21M per year, he may become a happy and financially secure player...and a teammate on a multi-year Celtics championship run. Tom Brady did such a service many years for the Patriots, and they prospered accordingly. So Gordon would get $79 to $83M for four years rather than probably just an actual in the pocket pre-tax paycheck of $24M for 2020-21. Danny could structure bonuses into the contract to reflect increases in league income and cap space as well. The Celts would have some cap room, perhaps, and be in really great shape if Kemba were to be traded to the Knicks. Someone send Doyle a few cases of Irish whiskey asap, please!

How long did you work on that Worcester???? Too much time on your hands???? That is all just numbers to me, I have no ideal of the cap and it's workings. But it was interesting reading, except for the prediction of the returning president.

If Biden gets elected, taxes on the uber rich will probably go up. By the time Danny starts reworking a deal with Gordon, he and Gordon will have a clearer view of the impending tax structure. I think Trump will win because the polls mostly show Biden winning, just like they showed Hillary winning, and I don't think they have changed their methods of sampling. But what do I know, really? Not enough to put a dime down on my prognostication. I will bet, though, that the NBA lost money that the players expected to get as well, and there will be a reduction in actual paychecks for 2020-21.

Methods of sampling are constantly changing. 538, which correctly called 2016 a tossup, gives Biden an 88% chance of winning .I don't want to get farther in the political weeds than that. As for Hayward, I like him as a player, but I think his greatest value to the team would be for him to opt in , and then be traded, because we  can bring back matching salaries. I haven't heard anything about Kemba being moved and hope that he  isn't. Hayward's situation is far different than Hayward's because of the timing of their  contracts terminating. A lot will depend on Ainge's perception of the draft class. I could see all the major guys cooming back and some of the dead wood being pared. It will be interesting.

We do have a lot of dead wood. Edwards and Poirier to start. Any chance Daryl Morey would want them in exchange for....(fill in the blank)?

Money got let go in Houston

dboss wrote:Discussing a potential Gordon Hayward trade is not a happy thing for me.  The Celtics will miss him and I hope they can find a way to retain him.   My gut feeling tells me he will opt in so this thread may prove to be premature.   We will get to see him next season and who knows what will happen in 2021.  There is no easy way to keep him but if the NYK called looking to add hometown guy Kemba Walker, I would move him in a NY minute.

Here is a trade that I thought about which would let us keep GH.

The Celtics Trade Kemba Walker to the KNY for Julius Randle $18.9M and Taj Gibson, $9.45 M.  Included in this trade is the 14th pick going to NY and the 8th pick goes to Boston.  This would be a great deal for Boston.  Randle has one years plus only $4 m guaranteed next year and Gibson has $1M guaranteed this year so the Knicks would need to fully guarantee his $9.45M  to make the numbers work.

This deal will make it easier to resign GH and the 8th pick can be traded if necessary or you probably can find a really good player at #8.  

This move will correct Danny's mistake of shelling out way too much cash on Kemba.  I do not dislike Kemba.  Him and GH are around the same age but GH clearly adds more to this team than Walker will ever add.  GH moves into our big three and his production takes a jump in scoring and everybody is happy.

the only problem with that is we really only get to move up 6 spots in the draft for trading Kemba. Randle is a shorter A. Drummond only with Kelly O alligator arms. Has and will move from team to team, getting meaningless stats year after year. Gibson is what 48YO now?

plus now the Celtics need a starting PG , unless you insert Smart into that role. Of course Ainge would probably have one of Hayes or Haliburton there at #8 to pick at PG. But does that deal move us forward or back?

Maybe if you keep the 14th pick.