POST GAME TORONTO - HOME

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:The bottom line for me is and always will be winning championships.  This may not happen right away so there should be adequate opportunities for a coach to get there.  When Brad takes a team to the big dance and wins then I can see comparisons that have some relevance.

Otherwise Brad is just another NBA coach.  Nothing special, nothing profound and nothing new.

dboss,

Doc has won 1 Championship in 21 years of coaching.  He was the All-Star coach 3X, which means his team had the best record in their conference at the All-Star break 3X, and he's won the Championship only 1X.  He was a head coach in Orlando for a little over 4 years and never won more than 44 games.  Not particularly impressive.  He came to Boston and won a total of 102 games in 3 years.  That's an average of 34 wins/year.  Even less impressive.  Then Trader Danny pulled a couple of rabbits outta his ass and Doc won 66 games and a Championship in 2007-2008.  Did he suddenly become a great coach, or did he then have killer talent?  He went on to LAC for 7 years and didn't make much noise, although he had good winning %.  Now he's in Philly, with great talent again, and he's a "great coach" again.

Everybody wants Championships, there isn't a coach or player in any league in any sport that doesn't, but with only rare exceptions (e.g. 2003-2004 Detroit Pistons, '69 Miracle Mets) does coaching alone overcome seriously flawed rosters.


Bob


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Or in Doc’s case, Great rosters couldn’t overcome flawed coaching?

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:The bottom line for me is and always will be winning championships.  This may not happen right away so there should be adequate opportunities for a coach to get there.  When Brad takes a team to the big dance and wins then I can see comparisons that have some relevance.

Otherwise Brad is just another NBA coach.  Nothing special, nothing profound and nothing new.

dboss,

Doc has won 1 Championship in 21 years of coaching.  He was the All-Star coach 3X, which means his team had the best record in their conference at the All-Star break 3X, and he's won the Championship only 1X.  He was a head coach in Orlando for a little over 4 years and never won more than 44 games.  Not particularly impressive.  He came to Boston and won a total of 102 games in 3 years.  That's an average of 34 wins/year.  Even less impressive.  Then Trader Danny pulled a couple of rabbits outta his ass and Doc won 66 games and a Championship in 2007-2008.  Did he suddenly become a great coach, or did he then have killer talent?  He went on to LAC for 7 years and didn't make much noise, although he had good winning %.  Now he's in Philly, with great talent again, and he's a "great coach" again.

Everybody wants Championships, there isn't a coach or player in any league in any sport that doesn't, but with only rare exceptions (e.g. 2003-2004 Detroit Pistons, '69 Miracle Mets) does coaching alone overcome seriously flawed rosters.


Bob


.

Bob

As you should know by now, doc rivers is not one of my favorites coaches. So again this is not about doc rivers. You compared Pop's coaching record to that of Brad Stevens and to me that makes no sense because what you are actually doing is comparing Pop to Stevens. They could not be more different on so many levels. One coach has a philosophy that has translated into 5 titles but Stevens has not been there. One coach commands respect and attention from his the players and the other one is an enabler. Coaching makes a huge difference.

So I will continue to call it like I see it. Brad Stevens is not a great coach.

You have to win to really be considered a great coach in any sport. Personally, I do not think he has what it takes to win a title. I think he's a choker. If he wins, then he will no longer be just another good coach. Until he wins.

He certainly has a huge recent choker moment, that forced the Raptor series to go 7 games and weakened us the next round, that decision led to costing us from going to the Finals last year. In 18, 2 youngsters were ice cold from 3 in game 7 ECF, Jaylen and TR, how about coming up with an alternate strategy in case you know, your team is trying hard, but the 3 ball is not falling? I find him unprepared too many times to come up with the right methods/strategy in the heat of the battle. That call in game 3 with .4 seconds left still baffles me....???? If the coach is doing most things right and we lose I can accept that, but to give it away pisses me off.

cowens/oldschool wrote:He certainly has a huge recent choker moment, that forced the Raptor series to go 7 games and weakened us the next round, that decision led to costing us from going to the Finals last year. In 18, 2 youngsters were ice cold from 3 in game 7 ECF, Jaylen and TR, how about coming up with an alternate strategy in case you know, your team is trying hard, but the 3 ball is not falling? I find him unprepared too many times to come up with the right methods/strategy in the heat of the battle. That call in game 3 with .4 seconds left still baffles me....???? If the coach is doing most things right and we lose I can accept that, but to give it away pisses me off.

He still has an opportunity to learn from his mistakes. We should have taken out the Raptors in no more than 5 games which would have given the team more energy to go after the Heat. The team was totally unprepared to play against zone defenses in both series. That's inadequate coaching.

We lost to the Cavs after being up 3-2 in the series and when our pups were missing all those 3 point shots (Tro and Jb) in game 7 there was no reaction to do something different. Do you think coach Pop would have allowed his team to just keep chucking away? Hell no.

And let me also mention the Bucks humiliation series. Kyrie Irving sabotaged the team. He had help because Brad Stevens should have put his ass on the bench win or lose. Do you think Pop would have put up with the Kyrie antics? Hell no.

We shall see if Brad has been learning on the job.
One good sign is that he is giving RWill minutes.
Another is the team has not quit on him as evidenced by our 4-0 run.

worcester wrote:We shall see if Brad has been learning on the job.
One good sign is that he is giving RWill minutes.
Another is the team has not quit on him as evidenced by our 4-0 run.

True he did get his team to play hard for him and he got others to step up, to take some of the pressure off the 2 J’s, the J’s actually did quite well in the all star game, definitely showed they belong. It was a good experience for both of them and should only add further confidence to their games going forward. Both young pups exceeded my expectations and nice to see Jaylen look like the better version of himself that we are used to seeing. Also have a few more days of rest for both, so thinking they will come on strong when the games start up again.

dboss wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:He certainly has a huge recent choker moment, that forced the Raptor series to go 7 games and weakened us the next round, that decision led to costing us from going to the Finals last year. In 18, 2 youngsters were ice cold from 3 in game 7 ECF, Jaylen and TR, how about coming up with an alternate strategy in case you know, your team is trying hard, but the 3 ball is not falling? I find him unprepared too many times to come up with the right methods/strategy in the heat of the battle. That call in game 3 with .4 seconds left still baffles me....???? If the coach is doing most things right and we lose I can accept that, but to give it away pisses me off.

He still has an opportunity to learn from his mistakes.  We should have taken out the Raptors in no more than 5 games which would have given the team more energy to go after the Heat.  The team was totally unprepared to play against zone defenses in both series.  That's inadequate coaching.  

We lost to the Cavs after being up 3-2 in the series and when our pups were missing all those 3 point shots (Tro and Jb) in game 7 there was no reaction to do something different.  Do you think coach Pop would have allowed his team to just keep chucking away?  Hell no.

And let me also mention the Bucks humiliation series.  Kyrie Irving sabotaged the team.  He had help because Brad Stevens should have put his ass on the bench win or lose.  Do you think Pop would have put up with the Kyrie antics?   Hell no.

I remember seeing Eli Manning on the podium on television after his last SB victory and he was describing some of his friends at and after the game, how they wanted him to win more than he did. I think that describes a lot of us too, so you can imagine how disappointed I was watching during some of those moments. I remember cursing during game 7 and my son saying it’s alright Dad we’re such a young team and I screamed how can Stevens keep letting them shoot 3’s, drive god damn it...??? That was still a winnable game in the 4th despite our missing/bricking so many 3’s, we could have so had that game if Brad just decided to start driving and stop with the f..king 3 balls. And styles make fights, we played GS tough that year, there’s no question in my mind we would have given GS a more competitive series than Cavs that year.

Same shit with that game 3, my son thought oh it’s one game, we’ll be alright and I said no, at this level you can’t afford to give games away, it bites you in the ass. Brads boneheaded zone had one confused talented player off for a split second, and that’s all it took and it forced us to be an energy depleted young team the next series.....costing us another Finals appearance IMHO. Not necessarily Pop, any coach, even me, could have made better simple basic moves to secure game 3 and come up with a better strategy in game 7 than continuing bombs away, like just attacking the f..king rim!!!

cowens/oldschool,

Eventually ALL teams die by the 3 unless you're GS. They were an anomaly.

BKN will be no exception as well but their demise will be based upon putting so much talent on the floor and figuring they can outscore every team in a shootout sans defense and in particular outscore you 4 times in a 7-game series. I've never seen that happen in the history of the NBA. May be wrong, but I'd like to see one example of a team that won the title with no defense.

Plus they just added Lob City. I couldn't have drawn this disaster/train wreck up any better if I tried. BKN is going to repeat looking like they did for 10 years after Danny fleeced them, except add another 10 years to the decimation.

db