POST GAME CROOKLYN - AWAY

kdp59 wrote:

bobc33 wrote:I totally agree with what you say about the balance of the team BobH.   Something BIG needs to be done, probably in this off season.  I think we are close, but as presently constituted we are not quite at the top echelon of teams with a realistic chance of winning a title.  I believe we would be well served to trade one of Jason or Jaylen for a young dominant ball handler or big.

“I am starting to question how good it is to have both Js and have our 3rd star being a non-point guard guard in a point guard's body (try saying that 3X fast!).  Trading for Harrison Barnes, in my opinion, will just give us 3 Js, in essence.  Danny needs to step back from the wing buffet table and reconsider the balance of this team, both from quality at numerous positions as well as age.  In my opinion we need more floor generals and a dominating big.”

I wondered on another thread if a Brown for Porzingis deal could be worked out. I'm not sure if that would be a good idea or not myself, but if you are right it would certainly take care of that issue.

my thoughts were something like

Brown
Thompson
next years first

for

Porzingis
Richardson

Richardson has a player option Next year though, so I'd want him to opt in for sure to do that deal myself.

Porzingis cant stay on the floor or defend. Sorry, no deal. Next!! :>)

They mentioned that the core four have played 20 something minutes together this season. That's the two J's, Kemba and Smart. To give up on this team this early is, to me, premature.

Diluted. Although perhaps deluded also.

Dboss,

Like I said, premature. You act like it has already been written in stone, as do others.

See me in *checks schedule* May.

I agree with mostly all of the thoughts and comments here, we’re kind of where I thought we might be this year at this stage. This was a possible outcome of where we might be, 2 J’s showing better levels and flashes of their talent and skills, but still are not the finished product that knows how to lead and consistent enough to carry us or make all the other young pieces better enough to be a top Finals team. Again very very few players come in like Magic and Bird and carry a franchise and win at such an early age. Compared to other mere mortals like say a PG, Kawhi or Jimmy Butler our 2 wings are still in great positions at their real active ages. Paul George and Jimmy Butler were up and coming wings that had no chance at contending on their teams when at similar ages of our young cornerstones. Kawhi was more a great young defensive role player to slow down opposing superstar wings and a 3rd or 4th scoring option playing with championship stars/veterans.

We are still seeing them make mistakes and go thru growing pains and levels of bad plays mixed in with spectacular hero plays which is why the coaches still wanted both in the all star game. The 2 superstar wing combo seems to be working for the Clippers, they have more vets in supporting roles than us, we have more young players that are still learning their roles and developing their games to mixed results, so thats where were at. Other GM’s have done a great job of getting veteran role players that can come right in and do their jobs, where our bench is even still young at a lot of positions.

Would love to see better coaching and better strategy and more positive growth going forward. So many games like recent Pelicans and Mavs games went down to wire, just a play here or there. Could a good coach have gotten just a little more out of certain plays or players to turn the tide to a win? Sure, could we have won with a couple less boneheaded plays or turnovers? Sure, we could easily have 4-5 more victories this year and 4th quarter collapses show the overall team is not ready yet to instinctively make the right winning plays at crunch time. We’ll just have to play it out, be patient with young and up and coming team. I wouldn’t break up the foundation of team over a few growing pains unless it is extremely lopsided deal....

There are several issues that have come into play and is affecting not only the Celtics but the league in general.

1) Adam Silver has done nothing to create parity in the league similar to the NFL model.  He has done nothing to prevent players teaming up and stacking a few teams via fee agent signing or trade demands.  I think you begin assigning labels to certain players (Super Stars of the game) while restricting the number of superstars on a team before a heavy tax is imposed on teams having more than 2.   A perfect example is LAL and Davis demanding a trade to them because of James, or Harden demanding a trade to Brooklyn because of Irving and Durant.

2) Analytics have killed the game.  There are many examples of this beginning with -  How many shots you take in a game, the more you shoot, the odds shift to you winning the game - or shooting the 3 ball, the more you can shoot the 3 ball the odds are in your favor to win the game.  WHERE THE HELL IS GOOD OLD DEFENSE!

You must have a balance of both defense and offense - outside shooting and good old inside shooting game.  Look for the best shot - the high percentage shot - not heaving up shots from beyond the arc! Pressure the ball, force the ball handler to either side of the court, not allowing him to take the ball straight up the middle and have choices to run plays on either side of the court verses only one side.

3) RUN UP THE SCORE AND YOU WILL WIN!

Danny and his coach in my opinion have bought into this crap!  That is why you do not see ball movement, only iso plays.  That is why you see very little penetration in the paint to score, but a large percentage of shots from beyond the arc. A La D' Antonio ball where he failed in NY and in Houston!

THERE IS NO DEFENSE PLAYED BY THE CELTICS!  The team has not been shown how to play lock down defense.  Opponents are scoring big time from beyond the arc or crashing the paint with little or no resistance.  

THIS IS DUE IN LARGE PART BY NOT HAVING A FULL TIME RIM PROTECTOR AS YOUR STARTING CENTER!

Notice how the Celtics opponents game changes when Williams III comes into the game.  They do not crash the paint as much and their interior game grinds to a halt.

When Williams is not in the game, the whole Celtic game changes.  The Celtics sage in the middle because the do not have a true rim protector to stop easy buckets.  By sagging, they leave the arc unprotected for opposing players to set up their foot work and fire 3 point shots all day long.

Another thing I have not seen from Stevens on defense is some ball pressure on the inbound pass.  How about putting some good old defensive pressure on the inbound pass to force teams to slow down the advancement of the ball, and eat up some time off the clock which now takes time away from teams setting up to run their plays

ALL I CAN SAY IS RED MUST BE TURNING IN HIS GRAVE ON HOW THE CELTICS ARE BEING RUN!

112288

Cow and 112288, both with excellent, insightful, and superb analyses. Dboss, yes this team needs an upgrade, and no, it is not Porzingus!

I just read that Embiid went down with a knee injury which requires surgery. Anything can happen in the NBA. It is way too early for anyone, including Danny, to quit on the Celtics this season.

Yes, RobLob changes the whole dynamic on D when he is on the floor, and PP turns RWill into a very efficient offensive weapon. He pairs well with Smartie too. How could I write this long without mentioning I love Marcus and his defensive intensity?

Update...MRI reveals Embiid's hyperextended knee does not require surgery.

IMHO, This may require a maximum of six weeks before he gets back on the court. Max.

for everyone's viewing pleasure.......




awwwww...aint' that nice!!!

Latest Embiid update: just a bone bruise. Out for only two weeks.

Also, watch your rear view mirror Celtics. Miami is streaking. Dragon is breathing fire. Butler is back.

Great post 122288, agree or disagree (I mostly agree) appreciate it. The Celtics rank 17th at 114.3 points/game allowed this year in adjusted (for strength of opponent) team defense versus 5th at 108.2 for all of last year. My eyes tell me they’re just not trying as much this year as last year with essentially the same roster and RWill playing more this year than last. Watching the first quarter against Brooklyn I thought that Brooklyn was barely playing defense and if the Celts just turned up their defense they could take over the game early but true to form that didn’t happen. To me that’s the season so far in a microcosm.

A few things to pay attention to going forward.

Is RWill going to be able to give us more minutes? We all know he’s super talented. Every single news outlet and pundit is clamoring for more minutes from him for obvious reasons. If he can’t play more than 15 minutes a game, shame on Danny for drafting an injured player that the training staff can’t ever get healthy enough to be a starter caliber impact player.

Is Jaylen Brown ever going to return to form of first 2 months of season? Some pundits had him in the MVP discussion and were saying he was at a first team all NBA level. His game and energy level have dropped noticeably, maybe this is all we will get, until he has a whole off season to recuperate? Not sure what to do, but hoping nagging injuries will not continue to take their toll.

Is Brad ever going to develop Aaron Nesmith or will Romeo Langford ever be healthy enough to get on the floor and develop? Other teams, Clippers, 76ers, Lakers, Nets all went in with under the radar signings of good vets. A guy like Shamet killed us and could have helped us if he was in green. Danny choose to go thru the draft, well now is the time to get them on the floor and develop them? I was liking the hustle we were seeing from Nesmith, he never had any plays called for him, we have to see what Nesmith and Romeo can do and we need depth at their positions.

Yep. Aaron and Romeo, we need production from you yesterday.

cowens/oldschool wrote:A few things to pay attention to going forward.

Is RWill going to be able to give us more minutes? We all know he’s super talented. Every single news outlet and pundit is clamoring for more minutes from him for obvious reasons. If he can’t play more than 15 minutes a game, shame on Danny for drafting an injured player that the training staff can’t ever get healthy enough to be a starter caliber impact player.

Is Jaylen Brown ever going to return to form of first 2 months of season? Some pundits had him in the MVP discussion and were saying he was at a first team all NBA level. His game and energy level have dropped noticeably, maybe this is all we will get, until he has a whole off season to recuperate? Not sure what to do, but hoping nagging injuries will not continue to take their toll.

Is Brad ever going to develop Aaron Nesmith or will Romeo Langford ever be healthy enough to get on the floor and develop? Other teams, Clippers, 76ers, Lakers, Nets all went in with under the radar signings of good vets. A guy like Shamet killed us and could have helped us if he was in green. Danny choose to go thru the draft, well now is the time to get them on the floor and develop them? I was liking the hustle we were seeing from Nesmith, he never had any plays called for him, we have to see what Nesmith and Romeo can do and we need depth at their positions.

Jaylen looked healthy during the All Star game, did something happen in practice since?

Everyone has a bad day, but a bad month sauf the ASG? What's up JB?

The league can fix/balance the 3-point problem in one of two ways.

1) Expand the court and push back the line until the expected value of a 2 point shot, now 2 x ~0.5 = 1 pt equals the expected value of the 3 pt shot, now 3 x ~0.38 =1.12 pts. That's what the analytics are showing and implying. Heave more 3's.

2) Keep the court the same size, extend the line back into an arc form above the top of the key, lopping off the side court shots until the Expected Value of a 2 point shot equals the expected value of a 3 point shot.

Now the league is somewhat enjoying the fallout from the "new" analytics so don't expect the lines to change anytime soon, but if the league is all about parity, they will come around. Probably not with Silver though.

db

bobc33 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:A few things to pay attention to going forward.

Is RWill going to be able to give us more minutes? We all know he’s super talented. Every single news outlet and pundit is clamoring for more minutes from him for obvious reasons. If he can’t play more than 15 minutes a game, shame on Danny for drafting an injured player that the training staff can’t ever get healthy enough to be a starter caliber impact player.

Is Jaylen Brown ever going to return to form of first 2 months of season? Some pundits had him in the MVP discussion and were saying he was at a first team all NBA level. His game and energy level have dropped noticeably, maybe this is all we will get, until he has a whole off season to recuperate? Not sure what to do, but hoping nagging injuries will not continue to take their toll.

Is Brad ever going to develop Aaron Nesmith or will Romeo Langford ever be healthy enough to get on the floor and develop? Other teams, Clippers, 76ers, Lakers, Nets all went in with under the radar signings of good vets. A guy like Shamet killed us and could have helped us if he was in green. Danny choose to go thru the draft, well now is the time to get them on the floor and develop them? I was liking the hustle we were seeing from Nesmith, he never had any plays called for him, we have to see what Nesmith and Romeo can do and we need depth at their positions.

Jaylen looked healthy during the All Star game, did something happen in practice since?

Not that I know of bob, he just looked very undisciplined jacking up 3’s when he was ice cold.

On why we need Romeo and Nesmith, they are both legit 6’5”-6’6” all our other guys are too small PP, Teague or too slow Semi, GWill, so we could really use them to spell and play with 2 J’s....

Hello, I've been gone awhile and am amazed at how little has changed. We need a better big man, we need to play RW more, and play him with Theis for crying out loud, why are we afraid to be as big as our opponents? The Walker trade was a disaster, Rosier is better dollar for dollar, pound for pound. Dboss, you nailed it; a good team starts with intelligent management and we need it. Seems like Brad proves the Peter Principle. DA blew it with Kyrie. If he'd traded him before the deadline for a good big man, we'd be looking at banners, but Danny was played. The evidence was there; the team sucked with KI on the floor and there was grumbling. It would have been a ballsy move, but look what chickening out has wrought. JT, and a few on the support staff. Take care, all! Tom

dboss wrote:3 pt. shooting percentage is up across the league.  That trend continues to change offensive priorities.  Now there are rumbling for a 4 pt. Shot.

Our perimeter  defense is not good.

I think it is all about energy and hope Smart can whip  these boys into shape.   He leads by example.  

Developing both RL and AN side by side will be difficult unless Danny closes  the door on upgrades this year and the team falters.  But we are likely to be in the playoffs again even without upgrades.  Will there be enough to win?

The fact is that last year's team had more fire power (GH)

My pessimism is based on not replacing his production.

Right we were a match up nightmare for other teams with GH on floor with 2 J’s, he drew so much attention and created so many open lanes and easy baskets for J’s. When either J went to bench, one of them playing with GH was formidable, now when a J goes to the bench, defense can key on the stray J, which is why we need Nesmith or Romeo to pick it up and be best versions of themselves.

BingBang! wrote:Great post 122288, agree or disagree (I mostly agree) appreciate it. The Celtics rank 17th at 114.3 points/game allowed this year in adjusted (for strength of opponent) team defense versus 5th at 108.2 for all of last year. My eyes tell me they’re just not trying as much this year as last year with essentially the same roster and RWill playing more this year than last. Watching the first quarter against Brooklyn I thought that Brooklyn was barely playing defense and if the Celts just turned up their defense they could take over the game early but true to form that didn’t happen. To me that’s the season so far in a microcosm.

Not quite the same roster. Haywood, though injured was a key component to this team last year and laugh if you want to but so was Wanamaker. There was no Teague or Thompson which altered this years lineup significantly. True, there seems to be a lack of effort by some but this doesn’t look and or feel like the same team we had last year-because its not.

I looked up Charlotte’s team D and it has improved a few spots and I agree on Wanamaker as well. But I trust my eyes as well and the perimeter defense in particular, as many others have noted, has been lackluster. Even LeBron plays lockdown defense when needed, and getting back to the Celtics bad habits are hard to break.

No doubt that this team is worse defensively this year. Effort just isn’t there