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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by cowens/oldschool Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:28 pm
They got off to a good start, but eventually the defensive weaknesses of Frenchy and Kemba caught up with them.
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27706
Join date : 2009-10-18
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dbrown4 Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:50 pm
Well, Lakers record history can relax after PHX got trounced by GSW. It looked like it had a chance. May have to put that record with DiMaggio's.
db
db
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by bobheckler Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:15 pm
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/kyrie-irving-wont-play-again-unless-traded/
NO WAY AROUND IT
Kyrie Irving won’t play again unless traded
DECEMBER 3, 2021
AUTHOR MATTHEW DUGANDZIC
The 2021/2022 NBA season has been pretty exciting and interesting, but one of the most glaring things missing has been Kyrie Irving. The 29-year old point guard is one of the flashiest players in the NBA, but unfortunately, due to social circumstances and political mandates, we are unable to watch Irving play this season. And the return isn’t looking likely.
The question mark over the Brooklyn Nets
Coming into the season, it was hard to say any team has more talent than the Brooklyn Nets. A superstar trio of Kevin Durant, James Harden, and Kyrie Irving, along with a deep and quality supporting cast, looked like the recipe for storming to the championship. But like always, things don’t work out perfectly as they look on paper.
The main story and drama that has been hovering around Kyrie and the Nets are the vaccination status of the star point guard. The state of New York has issued a mandate that requires getting the shot in order to enter certain facilities, like the Barclays Center. That obviously means Kyrie can’t practice or play home games, but the Nets organization simply decided to sit him out completely. It’s only logical as the team couldn’t function properly in that type of arrangement.
Nets fans hoped Kyrie would have a change of heart or be convinced by his good friend KD to get the shot, allowing the Nets to play in all of their power. But here we are, two months since this story started trending, and there is no progress. Kyrie is not with the team, and the return is looking unlikely, as neither the state of New York nor Kyrie will make the first move.
What’s next for Kyrie and the Nets?
Kyrie has got his morals and beliefs, and you have to respect him for standing by it, despite losing out on substantial amounts of money. But the Nets are still playing and trying to win a championship. They would benefit greatly from Irving suiting up, but that isn’t looking likely, as Shams Charania told us on the Pat McAfee Show:
“Kyrie Irving is nowhere closer to getting the vaccine and he’s not gonna play basketball unless he gets traded. Because unless the Nets come up someday and say, ‘fine, we’re gonna let you play road games, we’re gonna let you practice at home, we’re changing our stance.’ Or unless Kyrie Irving decides to get the shot [he won’t play],”
Shams Charania, The Pat McAfee Show
It is obvious Kyrie won’t play this season, at least for the Brooklyn Nets. So what should the Nets do? As much as breaking up such an elite trio hurts, that is the only solution. The Nets are still at the top of the Eastern Conference with a 15-6 record, which speaks volumes of their talent. Durant and Harden have been able to keep them at the top, despite struggling with injuries and problems even outside of the Kyrie situation.
But if they want to establish their place among the elite contenders like the Warriors or the Suns, they will need to make a move. I’m sure you can find interested trade partners, despite Kyrie’s unpredictableness. A player of such caliber isn’t often on the block, and the Nets should explore their options. One thing is for sure. They definitely have more leverage with Kyrie than the Sixers with Ben Simmons and his trade value.
Bob
MY NOTE: Thank God he's not our problem anymore. I couldn't handle this.
.
NO WAY AROUND IT
Kyrie Irving won’t play again unless traded
DECEMBER 3, 2021
AUTHOR MATTHEW DUGANDZIC
The 2021/2022 NBA season has been pretty exciting and interesting, but one of the most glaring things missing has been Kyrie Irving. The 29-year old point guard is one of the flashiest players in the NBA, but unfortunately, due to social circumstances and political mandates, we are unable to watch Irving play this season. And the return isn’t looking likely.
The question mark over the Brooklyn Nets
Coming into the season, it was hard to say any team has more talent than the Brooklyn Nets. A superstar trio of Kevin Durant, James Harden, and Kyrie Irving, along with a deep and quality supporting cast, looked like the recipe for storming to the championship. But like always, things don’t work out perfectly as they look on paper.
The main story and drama that has been hovering around Kyrie and the Nets are the vaccination status of the star point guard. The state of New York has issued a mandate that requires getting the shot in order to enter certain facilities, like the Barclays Center. That obviously means Kyrie can’t practice or play home games, but the Nets organization simply decided to sit him out completely. It’s only logical as the team couldn’t function properly in that type of arrangement.
Nets fans hoped Kyrie would have a change of heart or be convinced by his good friend KD to get the shot, allowing the Nets to play in all of their power. But here we are, two months since this story started trending, and there is no progress. Kyrie is not with the team, and the return is looking unlikely, as neither the state of New York nor Kyrie will make the first move.
What’s next for Kyrie and the Nets?
Kyrie has got his morals and beliefs, and you have to respect him for standing by it, despite losing out on substantial amounts of money. But the Nets are still playing and trying to win a championship. They would benefit greatly from Irving suiting up, but that isn’t looking likely, as Shams Charania told us on the Pat McAfee Show:
“Kyrie Irving is nowhere closer to getting the vaccine and he’s not gonna play basketball unless he gets traded. Because unless the Nets come up someday and say, ‘fine, we’re gonna let you play road games, we’re gonna let you practice at home, we’re changing our stance.’ Or unless Kyrie Irving decides to get the shot [he won’t play],”
Shams Charania, The Pat McAfee Show
It is obvious Kyrie won’t play this season, at least for the Brooklyn Nets. So what should the Nets do? As much as breaking up such an elite trio hurts, that is the only solution. The Nets are still at the top of the Eastern Conference with a 15-6 record, which speaks volumes of their talent. Durant and Harden have been able to keep them at the top, despite struggling with injuries and problems even outside of the Kyrie situation.
But if they want to establish their place among the elite contenders like the Warriors or the Suns, they will need to make a move. I’m sure you can find interested trade partners, despite Kyrie’s unpredictableness. A player of such caliber isn’t often on the block, and the Nets should explore their options. One thing is for sure. They definitely have more leverage with Kyrie than the Sixers with Ben Simmons and his trade value.
Bob
MY NOTE: Thank God he's not our problem anymore. I couldn't handle this.
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by bobheckler Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:37 pm
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10020041-blazers-rumors-former-celtics-gm-danny-ainge-hasnt-been-contacted-by-portland
Blazers Rumors: Former Celtics GM Danny Ainge Hasn't Been Contacted by Portland
TYLER CONWAY
DECEMBER 5, 2021
Maddie Meyer/Getty Images
The Portland Trail Blazers have reportedly not made contact with former Boston Celtics general manager Danny Ainge amid the firing of Neil Olshey.
Longtime Portland journalist Dwight Jaynes reported the Blazers are yet to speak with Ainge, who left his post in Boston after the 2020-21 season.
The Blazers fired Olshey on Friday after an investigation found workplace misconduct.
"Out of respect for those who candidly participated in that privileged investigation, we will not release or discuss it," the team said in a statement. "We are confident that these changes will help build a more positive and respectful working environment."
Joe Cronin is serving as the team's interim general manager while a search takes place for a permanent replacement. The Blazers are in a state of organizational upheaval beyond Olshey, with president and CEO Chris McGowan resigning last month and the team firing longtime coach Terry Stotts after the 2020-21 season.
While Stotts' firing was not a shock, there was widespread criticism over the choice of Chauncey Billups as his replacement. Billups was accused of rape in 1997 during his playing career, and the allegations resurfaced after his hiring.
The Blazers have gotten off to a disappointing 11-13 start this season, with several of their issues that plagued them under Stotts continuing under Billups, particularly on the defensive end.
Ainge took over as the Celtics' president of basketball operations in 2003 and made several successful moves, highlighted by trades for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in 2007 that resulted in a 2007-08 championship.
He was also responsible for the team drafting Jayson Tatum (2017) and Jaylen Brown (2016), moves that were made possible by the Celtics cutting bait on the Garnett-Paul Pierce era by dealing the veterans to the Brooklyn Nets in 2013.
Ainge spent two seasons in Portland during his playing career.
Bob
MY NOTE: Why Danny would voluntarily reinsert himself into the meat grinder when he's 62 years old and has already had 2 heart attacks is beyond me. Once a competitor always a competitor, I guess. I wish him the best whichever road he chooses to take. He's earned a life filled with nothing to do but play and spoil his grandchildren (no doubt to the aggravation of their parents who are trying to instill some discipline and expectations).
.
Blazers Rumors: Former Celtics GM Danny Ainge Hasn't Been Contacted by Portland
TYLER CONWAY
DECEMBER 5, 2021
Maddie Meyer/Getty Images
The Portland Trail Blazers have reportedly not made contact with former Boston Celtics general manager Danny Ainge amid the firing of Neil Olshey.
Longtime Portland journalist Dwight Jaynes reported the Blazers are yet to speak with Ainge, who left his post in Boston after the 2020-21 season.
The Blazers fired Olshey on Friday after an investigation found workplace misconduct.
"Out of respect for those who candidly participated in that privileged investigation, we will not release or discuss it," the team said in a statement. "We are confident that these changes will help build a more positive and respectful working environment."
Joe Cronin is serving as the team's interim general manager while a search takes place for a permanent replacement. The Blazers are in a state of organizational upheaval beyond Olshey, with president and CEO Chris McGowan resigning last month and the team firing longtime coach Terry Stotts after the 2020-21 season.
While Stotts' firing was not a shock, there was widespread criticism over the choice of Chauncey Billups as his replacement. Billups was accused of rape in 1997 during his playing career, and the allegations resurfaced after his hiring.
The Blazers have gotten off to a disappointing 11-13 start this season, with several of their issues that plagued them under Stotts continuing under Billups, particularly on the defensive end.
Ainge took over as the Celtics' president of basketball operations in 2003 and made several successful moves, highlighted by trades for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in 2007 that resulted in a 2007-08 championship.
He was also responsible for the team drafting Jayson Tatum (2017) and Jaylen Brown (2016), moves that were made possible by the Celtics cutting bait on the Garnett-Paul Pierce era by dealing the veterans to the Brooklyn Nets in 2013.
Ainge spent two seasons in Portland during his playing career.
Bob
MY NOTE: Why Danny would voluntarily reinsert himself into the meat grinder when he's 62 years old and has already had 2 heart attacks is beyond me. Once a competitor always a competitor, I guess. I wish him the best whichever road he chooses to take. He's earned a life filled with nothing to do but play and spoil his grandchildren (no doubt to the aggravation of their parents who are trying to instill some discipline and expectations).
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dbrown4 Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:54 pm
The thread I'm thinking of was relative to Brad dodging a bullet with Kemba, but real bullet that was dodged was with this basket case. This very well could be our organization in the midst of this today.
As caring, forgiving and forgetful as Celtics fans are, they never would have forgiven Danny for this if Kyrie were still on the clock here nor would the organization have made it out from under the rock. This would have blown us back easily another 20 years from even smelling a championship. I honestly don't know how the Celtics organization would have handled it all, but it wouldn't have been pretty.
BKN has moved on. "Kyrie's not coming through that door to save your dumasses and make you a super team. Now get out there and play. We'll fix the clueless coach next season. Our bad." Something like that.
And that's what they've done. What Kyrie hasn't had sink in is very similar to BS. NOBODY wants them, except maybe Sacramento, or any of the other teams that just don't give a damn. The NBA Graveyard. The phones aren't ringing and if they are it's with preposterous offers of desperation because everyday Kyrie and BS sit out, their value is dropping like a falling knife. Father time waits for no one. Kyrie's not going to want that option either. So guess what your contract and now your career going forward is worth?! Zilch. Good luck with that. No one cannot speak out about COVID more than anyone else except to say it is here to stay and will eventually line up under the flu category and everyone can or cannot get their flu shot every year. Flu can kill you. COVID can kill you. Roll the dice. Don't roll the dice. No one should care about your health but you. Your choice. Halleluiah! Holy shoot! Where's the Tylenol! (OK, that about sums up the last two years nicely.)
db
As caring, forgiving and forgetful as Celtics fans are, they never would have forgiven Danny for this if Kyrie were still on the clock here nor would the organization have made it out from under the rock. This would have blown us back easily another 20 years from even smelling a championship. I honestly don't know how the Celtics organization would have handled it all, but it wouldn't have been pretty.
BKN has moved on. "Kyrie's not coming through that door to save your dumasses and make you a super team. Now get out there and play. We'll fix the clueless coach next season. Our bad." Something like that.
And that's what they've done. What Kyrie hasn't had sink in is very similar to BS. NOBODY wants them, except maybe Sacramento, or any of the other teams that just don't give a damn. The NBA Graveyard. The phones aren't ringing and if they are it's with preposterous offers of desperation because everyday Kyrie and BS sit out, their value is dropping like a falling knife. Father time waits for no one. Kyrie's not going to want that option either. So guess what your contract and now your career going forward is worth?! Zilch. Good luck with that. No one cannot speak out about COVID more than anyone else except to say it is here to stay and will eventually line up under the flu category and everyone can or cannot get their flu shot every year. Flu can kill you. COVID can kill you. Roll the dice. Don't roll the dice. No one should care about your health but you. Your choice. Halleluiah! Holy shoot! Where's the Tylenol! (OK, that about sums up the last two years nicely.)
db
dbrown4- Posts : 5614
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Age : 61
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dboss Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:00 pm
Regarding the earth is still flat, KI will essentially become FA after the season (player option 2022-23) If a team makes a trade for him they could easily lose the unpredictable Irving next summer. The Nets may very well be stuck with him for the remainder of this year and lose him in the summer with zero compensation.
There will be a big bright red Warning Label attached to him.
There will be a big bright red Warning Label attached to him.
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by bobheckler Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:54 am
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/zion-williamson-reportedly-now-weighs-over-330-pounds/
ZION IS BIGGER THAN EVER
Zion Williamson reportedly now weighs over 330 Pounds
DECEMBER 8, 2021
AUTHOR ALEJANDRO TORRES
The New Orleans Pelicans are currently last place in the Western Conference due to the absence of All-Star Forward Zion Williamson this season, among other team issues. Williamson was diagnosed with a broken foot in the offseason, and his recovery process is one of the many mishaps of the David Griffin era in New Orleans. Zion was cleared for full-contact basketball activity a few weeks ago. Still, the Pelicans have yet to share a timetable for his much-anticipated return, leaving the basketball world disappointed as Zion is box office entertainment for the Pelicans and the NBA.
It appears that the lack of clarity on Zion’s return may not be a blatant withholding of information. The reason for the uncertainty is possibly because the team itself does not know when Williamson will be in good enough shape to take the NBA floor and play at game speed. According to ESPN’s Tim McMahon, Zion Williamson is far from the ideal playing weight for a player listed at 6’8.
“The number i’m hearing is seventy pounds from 260.” – Tim McMahon via The Lowe Post
Weight and injuries have always been an issue for Zion, and many believe that his explosive style of play at his size continues to burden his body in ways it cannot handle. Zion used that unique combination of size and athleticism to finish seventh in the league in scoring last year, averaging over 27 ppg on over 60% shooting. These are Shaquille O’Neal kind of numbers, but right now, it’s not just his stats that are close to that of The Big Diesel; his weight is reportedly also around Shaq’s during his playing days.
Zion is a great player but his biggest weakness is his availability. He started his NBA career with injuries and eventually worked his way to All-Star form, but sustained excellence will be impossible for the young star to achieve if he cannot keep his weight down. When you’re young, and in high school or college, it’s understandable when a player cannot keep his weight down. However, having all the resources could mean that this is a matter of discipline rather than a nagging injury bug. If Zion wants to be back on an NBA floor anytime soon, he will have to address both his injury and his weight.
Bob
MY NOTE: Shaq weighed about 325# in his prime. He's also 7'1". Zion is 6'6". 7" shorter, same weight, maybe even 5# heavier. If it was sad to see Sully eat his way out of the NBA it is even more depressing to see a game-changer like Zion do it. Injuries are part of the game. If you cannot keep weight off while you're rehabbing you are doomed. That's probably true for all of us.
.
ZION IS BIGGER THAN EVER
Zion Williamson reportedly now weighs over 330 Pounds
DECEMBER 8, 2021
AUTHOR ALEJANDRO TORRES
The New Orleans Pelicans are currently last place in the Western Conference due to the absence of All-Star Forward Zion Williamson this season, among other team issues. Williamson was diagnosed with a broken foot in the offseason, and his recovery process is one of the many mishaps of the David Griffin era in New Orleans. Zion was cleared for full-contact basketball activity a few weeks ago. Still, the Pelicans have yet to share a timetable for his much-anticipated return, leaving the basketball world disappointed as Zion is box office entertainment for the Pelicans and the NBA.
It appears that the lack of clarity on Zion’s return may not be a blatant withholding of information. The reason for the uncertainty is possibly because the team itself does not know when Williamson will be in good enough shape to take the NBA floor and play at game speed. According to ESPN’s Tim McMahon, Zion Williamson is far from the ideal playing weight for a player listed at 6’8.
“The number i’m hearing is seventy pounds from 260.” – Tim McMahon via The Lowe Post
Weight and injuries have always been an issue for Zion, and many believe that his explosive style of play at his size continues to burden his body in ways it cannot handle. Zion used that unique combination of size and athleticism to finish seventh in the league in scoring last year, averaging over 27 ppg on over 60% shooting. These are Shaquille O’Neal kind of numbers, but right now, it’s not just his stats that are close to that of The Big Diesel; his weight is reportedly also around Shaq’s during his playing days.
Zion is a great player but his biggest weakness is his availability. He started his NBA career with injuries and eventually worked his way to All-Star form, but sustained excellence will be impossible for the young star to achieve if he cannot keep his weight down. When you’re young, and in high school or college, it’s understandable when a player cannot keep his weight down. However, having all the resources could mean that this is a matter of discipline rather than a nagging injury bug. If Zion wants to be back on an NBA floor anytime soon, he will have to address both his injury and his weight.
Bob
MY NOTE: Shaq weighed about 325# in his prime. He's also 7'1". Zion is 6'6". 7" shorter, same weight, maybe even 5# heavier. If it was sad to see Sully eat his way out of the NBA it is even more depressing to see a game-changer like Zion do it. Injuries are part of the game. If you cannot keep weight off while you're rehabbing you are doomed. That's probably true for all of us.
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by cowens/oldschool Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:00 am
Yup the next Sully, even if he can get on the floor, at that weight he is gonna be such a defensive liability.
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27706
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dbrown4 Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:17 am
Yeah, dboss. The red glaring warning label on KI will read:
"Don't open in the case of ANY emergency, no matter how desperate your situation is!!"
db
"Don't open in the case of ANY emergency, no matter how desperate your situation is!!"
db
dbrown4- Posts : 5614
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by NYCelt Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:51 pm
bobheckler wrote:If you cannot keep weight off while you're rehabbing you are doomed. That's probably true for all of us.
Well, you just changed my lunch plans...
NYCelt- Posts : 10794
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by gyso Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:33 am
41 years. [insert swear word]
Two from Ringo's twitter, this year and last:
Peace and love
Two from Ringo's twitter, this year and last:
Peace and love
_________________
gyso- Posts : 23027
Join date : 2009-10-13
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by gyso Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:06 am
NBA Fact or Fiction: Domantas Sabonis, Myles Turner and the puzzling value of NBA centers
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-fact-or-fiction-domantas-sabonis-myles-turner-and-the-puzzling-value-of-nba-centers-195138392.html
Ben Rohrbach
Fri, December 10, 2021, 2:51 PM·9 min read
The NBA trade market for big men in recent years has not yielded much of value, but the Indiana Pacers are here to test the limits of what teams will pay for either a bona fide All-Star center or a second-tier big.
The 13th-place Pacers (11-16) have opened the bidding for either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner, along with sixth-year wing Caris LeVert, according to The Athletic's Shams Charania and Bob Kravitz. Indiana has inserted itself into a market largely devoid of impact players beyond Philadelphia 76ers star Ben Simmons, whoever the Portland Trail Blazers decide to deal and potentially Houston Rockets center Christian Wood.
Turner added some urgency to those trade discussions in a conversation with The Athletic's Jared Weiss.
"It’s clear that I’m not valued as anything more than a glorified role player here, and I want something more, more opportunity,” said Turner. "I'm trying really hard to make the role that I’m given here work and find a way to maximize it. I’ve been trying to the past two, three seasons. But it's clear to me that, just numbers-wise, I'm not valued as more than a rotational role player, and I hold myself in a higher regard than that."
Simmons, Wood and Portland's Jusuf Nurkic are all cautionary tales of the NBA's big-man trade market that the Pacers are now attempting to navigate. Maximizing the return for Sabonis or Turner won't be easy.
Simmons is a 25-year-old three-time All-Star and two-time First Team All-Defensive selection who has averaged a 16-8-8 on 58% true shooting through his first four seasons. He is under contract through the 2024-25 season on a max rookie extension anyone with his credentials would have received. Yet, Sixers president of basketball operations Daryl Morey can't find anyone to exchange his dollar for enough cents.
Wood was a promising 25-year-old who averaged 23 points and 10 rebounds on 56/40/76 shooting splits as a starter entering 2020 unrestricted free agency. The Detroit Pistons would not offer more than a $10 million starting salary to retain Wood, instead dealing him to Houston for what amounts to the difference between drafting Isaiah Stewart 16th overall in 2020 and a less certain protected future first-round pick.
Wood signed an affordable three-year, $41 million deal with the Rockets, for whom he has averaged 19 points and 10 rebounds on 50/37/61 splits, and he is already the subject of trade speculation. He is an in-his-prime double-double machine shooting better than league average on five 3-point attempts per game, making little more than midlevel exception money, and he may be bound for a third team in three seasons.
Portland acquired Nurkic from the Denver Nuggets for Mason Plumlee and a first-round pick in 2017. What was considered a steal mere days into the deal has proven less so over time. The Blazers suffered an upset first-round sweep to Anthony Davis' New Orleans Pelicans in Nurkic's lone fully healthy season in Portland. They reached the 2019 Western Conference finals with Enes Kanter filling in for the injured Nurkic at center. Now, Nurkic could be valued more for his $12 million expiring contract than his production in the meantime.
The Blazers gave up nothing for Nurkic, a quality center bound to be exposed by the NBA's select few great bigs (i.e., Davis and Nikola Jokic, who handed him three first-round exits in four years). They gave Nurkic a four-year, $48 million deal, and they're still looking for a difference-maker at the position. In the meantime, they won their only two playoff series of Nurkic's tenure with a low-cost journeyman in his place.
This is the problem Indiana is about to face.
Few teams are willing to invest heavily at center, because they rarely pay dividends. Unless you have a truly elite big, the difference between a second-tier and replacement-level center in the pace-and-space era is not worth the added cost, especially if that price includes future first-round picks on rookie-scale contracts.
The Pacers know this all too well. They wanted Gordon Hayward in 2020 free agency, and he wanted them. Indiana offered Turner, Doug McDermott and a first-round pick to facilitate the sign-and-trade swap, only the Boston Celtics balked, instead sending the one-time All-Star to the Charlotte Hornets for a trade exception. The Celtics saw more value in a reserved seat at the table than they did in Turner occupying it.
Turner has since been one of the NBA's best rim protectors, averaging a league-high 3.4 three blocks per game and finishing top-10 in Defensive Player of the Year voting last season. He is shooting 79% at the rim and 40% on nearly five 3-point attempts per game this year. There is little more you could ask of him. Yet, who is giving up the sort of quality young wing or high-end draft pick the Pacers might want in return?
Pacers executive Kevin Pritchard was straightforward with The Athletic's Weiss about his restructuring plan.
"At some point in time, we've got to figure out how to manufacture that real star,” he said, citing recent examples Paul George and Victor Oladipo. "In this sort of marketplace, how do you get a star? It’s hard for us to sign one in free agency, that’s a challenge. But there are other ways to do it, and I think we can do it."
Even Pritchard seems to concede that Sabonis — a 25-year-old two-time All-Star — is not a "real star," at least not the kind you need to contend. If the last decade (or the last four decades) has taught us anything, you need what people have started to call an apex wing predator to be a viable contender, and teams are stacking picks to either find one in the draft or trade for one in the rare instance one becomes available.
This is not to say Sabonis or Turner have no trade value.
The New York Knicks traded Kristaps Porzingis, then a promising 23-year-old All-Star big recovering from knee surgery, for two first-round picks, also parting with Tim Hardaway Jr. in the process. Not great value, considering the first of those picks landed at No. 21 in this year's draft, and the second is top-10 protected. But Porzingis is now viewed as an albatross contract, and New York did get two bites at the draft apple.
It is not so bad, once you remember Clint Capela and Jarrett Allen, two of the league's top rim runners and protectors, were each acquired over the past two years for a late first-round pick and a second-rounder.
Shopping 30-year-old two-time All-Star Nikola Vucevic at the deadline in February, the Orlando Magic did find a Chicago Bulls team desperate to make the playoffs and willing to trade two top-four protected picks, plus recent lottery pick Wendell Carter Jr., in order to make it happen. That is the steepest price a team has paid for a big not named Anthony Davis the past few years, and the deal was widely panned once Vucevic did nothing to alter the Bulls' playoff hopes. The sting from gifting the Magic a top-10 pick (Franz Wagner) has dulled since the arrivals of DeMar DeRozan, Lonzo Ball and Alex Caruso transformed Chicago's roster.
Still, the lesson remains: Rarely is it worth parting with anything of value for a sub-superstar big. The Pacers must find a team convinced either Sabonis or Turner will make them a bona fide contender, or at least one that thinks either Indiana big could be a steppingstone to contention in the years to come. And they must do so in a market that has let Simmons sit on ice for months and may soon include more quality big men.
The Hornets and Minnesota Timberwolves have expressed significant interest in Turner over the past year, according to the Orlando Sentinel's J. Michael Falgoust. Would Charlotte pair James Bouknight with Kelly Oubre Jr.'s contract to plug Turner into its starting lineup? Might Minnesota part with Josh Okogie or Jaden McDaniels, along with Taurean Prince's expiring contract, to play Turner alongside Karl-Anthony Towns?
The Atlanta Hawks wanted Malik Beasley and a first-round pick from the Wolves for John Collins last season, and Minnesota rejected the offer, according to The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor. Turner might carry similar value, but is Pritchard not looking for more than a heat-check scorer and a protected draft pick?
Most potential suitors have exhausted assets to reach the NBA's upper echelon or already have a quality big on the roster. Pritchard might as well inquire about the availability of Jonathan Kuminga in Golden State, R.J. Barrett in New York, Deni Avdija and future picks in Washington, Pascal Siakam in Toronto, De'Aaron Fox in Sacramento, Brandon Ingram in New Orleans, C.J. McCollum in Portland or Jerami Grant in Detroit.
Only, why would any of those teams give up a creator of any significance for one of Indiana's centers when so many bigs have changed hands for less in recent years? And why trade multiple first-round picks when San Antonio Spurs small-ball center Thaddeus Young might only cost you a second-round pick or two?
Both Sabonis and Turner are more valuable to Indiana than they are around the league, which is why they remain together five years into a misfit partnership. Three coaches have tried mediating to no avail in three years. Barring a shift in the NBA's valuation of centers, the Pacers will pay a price for the breakup of theirs.
I still would like to get Sabonis, but Indy may not want anything we are willing to give.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-fact-or-fiction-domantas-sabonis-myles-turner-and-the-puzzling-value-of-nba-centers-195138392.html
Ben Rohrbach
Fri, December 10, 2021, 2:51 PM·9 min read
The NBA trade market for big men in recent years has not yielded much of value, but the Indiana Pacers are here to test the limits of what teams will pay for either a bona fide All-Star center or a second-tier big.
The 13th-place Pacers (11-16) have opened the bidding for either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner, along with sixth-year wing Caris LeVert, according to The Athletic's Shams Charania and Bob Kravitz. Indiana has inserted itself into a market largely devoid of impact players beyond Philadelphia 76ers star Ben Simmons, whoever the Portland Trail Blazers decide to deal and potentially Houston Rockets center Christian Wood.
Turner added some urgency to those trade discussions in a conversation with The Athletic's Jared Weiss.
"It’s clear that I’m not valued as anything more than a glorified role player here, and I want something more, more opportunity,” said Turner. "I'm trying really hard to make the role that I’m given here work and find a way to maximize it. I’ve been trying to the past two, three seasons. But it's clear to me that, just numbers-wise, I'm not valued as more than a rotational role player, and I hold myself in a higher regard than that."
Simmons, Wood and Portland's Jusuf Nurkic are all cautionary tales of the NBA's big-man trade market that the Pacers are now attempting to navigate. Maximizing the return for Sabonis or Turner won't be easy.
Simmons is a 25-year-old three-time All-Star and two-time First Team All-Defensive selection who has averaged a 16-8-8 on 58% true shooting through his first four seasons. He is under contract through the 2024-25 season on a max rookie extension anyone with his credentials would have received. Yet, Sixers president of basketball operations Daryl Morey can't find anyone to exchange his dollar for enough cents.
Wood was a promising 25-year-old who averaged 23 points and 10 rebounds on 56/40/76 shooting splits as a starter entering 2020 unrestricted free agency. The Detroit Pistons would not offer more than a $10 million starting salary to retain Wood, instead dealing him to Houston for what amounts to the difference between drafting Isaiah Stewart 16th overall in 2020 and a less certain protected future first-round pick.
Wood signed an affordable three-year, $41 million deal with the Rockets, for whom he has averaged 19 points and 10 rebounds on 50/37/61 splits, and he is already the subject of trade speculation. He is an in-his-prime double-double machine shooting better than league average on five 3-point attempts per game, making little more than midlevel exception money, and he may be bound for a third team in three seasons.
Portland acquired Nurkic from the Denver Nuggets for Mason Plumlee and a first-round pick in 2017. What was considered a steal mere days into the deal has proven less so over time. The Blazers suffered an upset first-round sweep to Anthony Davis' New Orleans Pelicans in Nurkic's lone fully healthy season in Portland. They reached the 2019 Western Conference finals with Enes Kanter filling in for the injured Nurkic at center. Now, Nurkic could be valued more for his $12 million expiring contract than his production in the meantime.
The Blazers gave up nothing for Nurkic, a quality center bound to be exposed by the NBA's select few great bigs (i.e., Davis and Nikola Jokic, who handed him three first-round exits in four years). They gave Nurkic a four-year, $48 million deal, and they're still looking for a difference-maker at the position. In the meantime, they won their only two playoff series of Nurkic's tenure with a low-cost journeyman in his place.
This is the problem Indiana is about to face.
Few teams are willing to invest heavily at center, because they rarely pay dividends. Unless you have a truly elite big, the difference between a second-tier and replacement-level center in the pace-and-space era is not worth the added cost, especially if that price includes future first-round picks on rookie-scale contracts.
The Pacers know this all too well. They wanted Gordon Hayward in 2020 free agency, and he wanted them. Indiana offered Turner, Doug McDermott and a first-round pick to facilitate the sign-and-trade swap, only the Boston Celtics balked, instead sending the one-time All-Star to the Charlotte Hornets for a trade exception. The Celtics saw more value in a reserved seat at the table than they did in Turner occupying it.
Turner has since been one of the NBA's best rim protectors, averaging a league-high 3.4 three blocks per game and finishing top-10 in Defensive Player of the Year voting last season. He is shooting 79% at the rim and 40% on nearly five 3-point attempts per game this year. There is little more you could ask of him. Yet, who is giving up the sort of quality young wing or high-end draft pick the Pacers might want in return?
Pacers executive Kevin Pritchard was straightforward with The Athletic's Weiss about his restructuring plan.
"At some point in time, we've got to figure out how to manufacture that real star,” he said, citing recent examples Paul George and Victor Oladipo. "In this sort of marketplace, how do you get a star? It’s hard for us to sign one in free agency, that’s a challenge. But there are other ways to do it, and I think we can do it."
Even Pritchard seems to concede that Sabonis — a 25-year-old two-time All-Star — is not a "real star," at least not the kind you need to contend. If the last decade (or the last four decades) has taught us anything, you need what people have started to call an apex wing predator to be a viable contender, and teams are stacking picks to either find one in the draft or trade for one in the rare instance one becomes available.
This is not to say Sabonis or Turner have no trade value.
The New York Knicks traded Kristaps Porzingis, then a promising 23-year-old All-Star big recovering from knee surgery, for two first-round picks, also parting with Tim Hardaway Jr. in the process. Not great value, considering the first of those picks landed at No. 21 in this year's draft, and the second is top-10 protected. But Porzingis is now viewed as an albatross contract, and New York did get two bites at the draft apple.
It is not so bad, once you remember Clint Capela and Jarrett Allen, two of the league's top rim runners and protectors, were each acquired over the past two years for a late first-round pick and a second-rounder.
Shopping 30-year-old two-time All-Star Nikola Vucevic at the deadline in February, the Orlando Magic did find a Chicago Bulls team desperate to make the playoffs and willing to trade two top-four protected picks, plus recent lottery pick Wendell Carter Jr., in order to make it happen. That is the steepest price a team has paid for a big not named Anthony Davis the past few years, and the deal was widely panned once Vucevic did nothing to alter the Bulls' playoff hopes. The sting from gifting the Magic a top-10 pick (Franz Wagner) has dulled since the arrivals of DeMar DeRozan, Lonzo Ball and Alex Caruso transformed Chicago's roster.
Still, the lesson remains: Rarely is it worth parting with anything of value for a sub-superstar big. The Pacers must find a team convinced either Sabonis or Turner will make them a bona fide contender, or at least one that thinks either Indiana big could be a steppingstone to contention in the years to come. And they must do so in a market that has let Simmons sit on ice for months and may soon include more quality big men.
The Hornets and Minnesota Timberwolves have expressed significant interest in Turner over the past year, according to the Orlando Sentinel's J. Michael Falgoust. Would Charlotte pair James Bouknight with Kelly Oubre Jr.'s contract to plug Turner into its starting lineup? Might Minnesota part with Josh Okogie or Jaden McDaniels, along with Taurean Prince's expiring contract, to play Turner alongside Karl-Anthony Towns?
The Atlanta Hawks wanted Malik Beasley and a first-round pick from the Wolves for John Collins last season, and Minnesota rejected the offer, according to The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor. Turner might carry similar value, but is Pritchard not looking for more than a heat-check scorer and a protected draft pick?
Most potential suitors have exhausted assets to reach the NBA's upper echelon or already have a quality big on the roster. Pritchard might as well inquire about the availability of Jonathan Kuminga in Golden State, R.J. Barrett in New York, Deni Avdija and future picks in Washington, Pascal Siakam in Toronto, De'Aaron Fox in Sacramento, Brandon Ingram in New Orleans, C.J. McCollum in Portland or Jerami Grant in Detroit.
Only, why would any of those teams give up a creator of any significance for one of Indiana's centers when so many bigs have changed hands for less in recent years? And why trade multiple first-round picks when San Antonio Spurs small-ball center Thaddeus Young might only cost you a second-round pick or two?
Both Sabonis and Turner are more valuable to Indiana than they are around the league, which is why they remain together five years into a misfit partnership. Three coaches have tried mediating to no avail in three years. Barring a shift in the NBA's valuation of centers, the Pacers will pay a price for the breakup of theirs.
I still would like to get Sabonis, but Indy may not want anything we are willing to give.
_________________
gyso- Posts : 23027
Join date : 2009-10-13
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by bobheckler Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:25 pm
https://www.si.com/nba/2021/12/10/anthony-davis-disappointing-los-angeles-lakers?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab
The Anthony Davis Bubble Has Burst on the Lakers: Unchecked
ROBIN LUNDBERG
Anthony Davis was recently named to the NBA’s 75th anniversary team, and while he certainly won’t be taken off, his play of late is not worthy of being on that list...and that’s a problem for the Lakers.
Robin Lundberg
@robinlundberg
Can they take Anthony Davis out of the NBA top 75?
7:17 PM · Dec 9, 2021
To be clear, LA’s issues go well beyond AD. The roster as a whole is old and poorly constructed. However, Davis being one of the best players on the planet, a trajectory it appeared he was on, would be a rather large fix.
Grizzlies Nation
@GrizNationCP
JJJ bullies Anthony Davis for 2
https://twitter.com/i/status/1469136738907942913
Because good doesn’t cut it from him, the Lakers need great. Davis has displayed tantalizing ability as a virtuoso do it all big who can guard everyone on the floor, shoot from distance and beat you inside. But of late, his play has been rather lethargic as he’s displayed a lack of bounce and what sometimes appears to be a lack of effort.
Josh Eberley
@JoshEberley
Anthony Davis’ lack of, ‘go get it,’is the most puzzling phenomenon from any star in all my time watching hoops.
7:31 PM · Dec 9, 2021
And when it comes to shooting, The Brow has turned into The Brick. Which is exacerbated by his penchant for settling and his miserable splits from beyond the arc, where he is hitting at under 20%.
bev
@thtguybev
This right here is when I knew Anthony Davis wasn’t that guy anymore
https://twitter.com/i/status/1469149047583870976
Now when one plays with LeBron James, the attention can tend to go in The King’s direction. The thing there is that James is in season 19, and if the Lakers were to be the best version of what they could be, they needed to slowly transition toward being AD’s team. While LeBron is still playing at a top level, his race against Father Time was supposed to be mitigated by Davis’s prime.
NBA on TNT
@NBAonTNT
"Anthony Davis, you know I like you as a person, but you ain't doing what you're supposed to do."
Chuck sounds off on the Lakers' struggles this season
https://twitter.com/i/status/1468374263077900289
Perhaps the championship the Lakers won with Davis beasting alongside LeBron is ultimately enough for AD’s legacy. But his current play is clearly not enough for the LakeShow to have any thoughts of hoisting another trophy.
StatMuse
@statmuse
Anthony Davis career 3P%:
38.3% — Bubble playoffs
29.9% — Every other game
Because Anthony Davis hasn’t been the same since Disney, and as a result the bubble may have burst on the Lakers.
Bob
.
The Anthony Davis Bubble Has Burst on the Lakers: Unchecked
ROBIN LUNDBERG
Anthony Davis was recently named to the NBA’s 75th anniversary team, and while he certainly won’t be taken off, his play of late is not worthy of being on that list...and that’s a problem for the Lakers.
Robin Lundberg
@robinlundberg
Can they take Anthony Davis out of the NBA top 75?
7:17 PM · Dec 9, 2021
To be clear, LA’s issues go well beyond AD. The roster as a whole is old and poorly constructed. However, Davis being one of the best players on the planet, a trajectory it appeared he was on, would be a rather large fix.
Grizzlies Nation
@GrizNationCP
JJJ bullies Anthony Davis for 2
https://twitter.com/i/status/1469136738907942913
Because good doesn’t cut it from him, the Lakers need great. Davis has displayed tantalizing ability as a virtuoso do it all big who can guard everyone on the floor, shoot from distance and beat you inside. But of late, his play has been rather lethargic as he’s displayed a lack of bounce and what sometimes appears to be a lack of effort.
Josh Eberley
@JoshEberley
Anthony Davis’ lack of, ‘go get it,’is the most puzzling phenomenon from any star in all my time watching hoops.
7:31 PM · Dec 9, 2021
And when it comes to shooting, The Brow has turned into The Brick. Which is exacerbated by his penchant for settling and his miserable splits from beyond the arc, where he is hitting at under 20%.
bev
@thtguybev
This right here is when I knew Anthony Davis wasn’t that guy anymore
https://twitter.com/i/status/1469149047583870976
Now when one plays with LeBron James, the attention can tend to go in The King’s direction. The thing there is that James is in season 19, and if the Lakers were to be the best version of what they could be, they needed to slowly transition toward being AD’s team. While LeBron is still playing at a top level, his race against Father Time was supposed to be mitigated by Davis’s prime.
NBA on TNT
@NBAonTNT
"Anthony Davis, you know I like you as a person, but you ain't doing what you're supposed to do."
Chuck sounds off on the Lakers' struggles this season
https://twitter.com/i/status/1468374263077900289
Perhaps the championship the Lakers won with Davis beasting alongside LeBron is ultimately enough for AD’s legacy. But his current play is clearly not enough for the LakeShow to have any thoughts of hoisting another trophy.
StatMuse
@statmuse
Anthony Davis career 3P%:
38.3% — Bubble playoffs
29.9% — Every other game
Because Anthony Davis hasn’t been the same since Disney, and as a result the bubble may have burst on the Lakers.
Bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by bobheckler Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:30 pm
https://fullcourtpress.bulletin.com/nba-teams-that-are-wed-to-the-idea-of-winning-at-the-highest-levels-have-an-elite-best-man-baller-right/
NBA teams that are wed to the idea of winning at the highest levels, have an elite "Best Man" baller right?
So I went to a wedding this weekend, hung out with lots of longtime friends, including the best man. And that got me thinking about who the "Best Man" ballers are in the NBA. Who did I miss?
Sherrod Blakely
Today
So I spent this weekend attending the wedding of Boston Globe columnist Gary Washburn, a wedding that I pulled double-duty at as the emcee and as one of Gary’s groomsmen.
Courtesy of A. Sherrod Blakely
As enjoyable as the laughs and libations were, at some point I had to get back to reality and, you know, write a little somethin’ somethin’ about the NBA.
The more I thought about what to write, the more I kept flashing back to the wedding which brought together so many of my sports journo brothers from another mother.
Among them was one of the first people I met in the business years ago, James Black, who is Director of Sports Programming, Strategy with Yahoo! Sports.
It was cool to see JB who was Gary’s best man which got me thinking…
Who are the NBA’s best, “Best Man” ballers?
You know, the guy who is kind of a big deal, but is a clear No. 2 to that team’s main event/superstar.
There’s a lot of guys who fit the mold, but only a handful are truly “Best Man” ballers.
Khris Middleton, Milwaukee Bucks
The 6-foot-8 Middleton does exactly what a Best Man should do, and that is to make sure he does his part to make sure the main attraction (Giannis Antetokounmpo) gets the ring. As great as Antetokounmpo has been in the league, the Bucks would not be the defending NBA champions if it wasn’t for Middleton’s steady-as-she-goes brand of basketball. He’s never going to wow you with fast-break dunks on anyone. He’s not going to hit you with a killer-crossover, either. What he does as good as any second option in the NBA, is get buckets. He’s so good that in what has been a relatively down year for him, he’s still dropping 18.5 points per game while dishing out five assists and grabbing 5.6 rebounds, numbers that only 12 other players in the league average as much or more than, this season. But what really put him on the top of this list? What else? The ring, people.
Rudy Gobert, Utah
Gobert has won multiple Defensive Player of the Year awards, but the Jazz is led by Donovan Mitchell. Gobert has been a reliable number two option to Mitchell, steadily becoming more impactful offensively which makes Utah a much tougher foe. This season, Gobert is averaging a double-double of 14.6 points and 15.1 rebounds to go with 2.2 blocks per game.
Tobias Harris, Philadelphia
Even before Ben Simmons’ future in Philly was on the outs, Harris was doing his part to play that “Best Man” role to Joel Embiid. And with Simmons out of the picture indefinitely, Harris’ status with the team is not in question anymore. He is the next best thing on this Sixers roster, to Embiid. His shooting numbers are slightly down this season, but he’s still chipping in 18.9 points along with 8.2 rebounds and 3.3 assists per game with the latter two categories close to being career-best numbers. He would rank higher if the Sixers (15-12, sixth in the East) had a better record.
Jarrett Allen, Cleveland
One of the early leaders for the league’s Most Improved Player award, Allen has played well enough to where he will get serious All-Star consideration this season. He’s not just playing well, but playing at a near-historic level when you consider he’s averaging 17.3 points per game while shooting 70.3 percent from the field to go with 11.2 rebounds. No player in NBA history has ever averaged 15 or more points and 10 or more rebounds while shooting better than 70 percent from the field. As well as he has played, point guard Darius Garland is the straw that has been stirring up one win after another for the Cavs this season.
Anthony Edwards, Minnesota
On the majority of the teams in the NBA, Anthony Edwards would be must-see basketball on a nightly basis. But the Timberwolves are led by Karl-Anthony Towns with Edwards more than comfortable being at his side. But as important as the 21.5 points and 5.8 rebounds and 3.7 assists Edwards brings to the game on a nightly basis, one of the keys to being a good “Best Man” baller in the NBA, is speaking out from time to time to remind your main guy how amazingly awesome he is. “He’s the best player on the floor every night. He’s gotta kill ‘em,” Edwards said.
Bob
MY NOTE: Uhmm, how about Wiggins? Anthony Davis? Ayton? Bam? Sounds like he doesn't think the Celtics are not "wed to the idea of winning" since he didn't include Jaylen Brown. Did he wait for the celebratory champagne to wear off before coming up with this list?
.
NBA teams that are wed to the idea of winning at the highest levels, have an elite "Best Man" baller right?
So I went to a wedding this weekend, hung out with lots of longtime friends, including the best man. And that got me thinking about who the "Best Man" ballers are in the NBA. Who did I miss?
Sherrod Blakely
Today
So I spent this weekend attending the wedding of Boston Globe columnist Gary Washburn, a wedding that I pulled double-duty at as the emcee and as one of Gary’s groomsmen.
Courtesy of A. Sherrod Blakely
As enjoyable as the laughs and libations were, at some point I had to get back to reality and, you know, write a little somethin’ somethin’ about the NBA.
The more I thought about what to write, the more I kept flashing back to the wedding which brought together so many of my sports journo brothers from another mother.
Among them was one of the first people I met in the business years ago, James Black, who is Director of Sports Programming, Strategy with Yahoo! Sports.
It was cool to see JB who was Gary’s best man which got me thinking…
Who are the NBA’s best, “Best Man” ballers?
You know, the guy who is kind of a big deal, but is a clear No. 2 to that team’s main event/superstar.
There’s a lot of guys who fit the mold, but only a handful are truly “Best Man” ballers.
Khris Middleton, Milwaukee Bucks
The 6-foot-8 Middleton does exactly what a Best Man should do, and that is to make sure he does his part to make sure the main attraction (Giannis Antetokounmpo) gets the ring. As great as Antetokounmpo has been in the league, the Bucks would not be the defending NBA champions if it wasn’t for Middleton’s steady-as-she-goes brand of basketball. He’s never going to wow you with fast-break dunks on anyone. He’s not going to hit you with a killer-crossover, either. What he does as good as any second option in the NBA, is get buckets. He’s so good that in what has been a relatively down year for him, he’s still dropping 18.5 points per game while dishing out five assists and grabbing 5.6 rebounds, numbers that only 12 other players in the league average as much or more than, this season. But what really put him on the top of this list? What else? The ring, people.
Rudy Gobert, Utah
Gobert has won multiple Defensive Player of the Year awards, but the Jazz is led by Donovan Mitchell. Gobert has been a reliable number two option to Mitchell, steadily becoming more impactful offensively which makes Utah a much tougher foe. This season, Gobert is averaging a double-double of 14.6 points and 15.1 rebounds to go with 2.2 blocks per game.
Tobias Harris, Philadelphia
Even before Ben Simmons’ future in Philly was on the outs, Harris was doing his part to play that “Best Man” role to Joel Embiid. And with Simmons out of the picture indefinitely, Harris’ status with the team is not in question anymore. He is the next best thing on this Sixers roster, to Embiid. His shooting numbers are slightly down this season, but he’s still chipping in 18.9 points along with 8.2 rebounds and 3.3 assists per game with the latter two categories close to being career-best numbers. He would rank higher if the Sixers (15-12, sixth in the East) had a better record.
Jarrett Allen, Cleveland
One of the early leaders for the league’s Most Improved Player award, Allen has played well enough to where he will get serious All-Star consideration this season. He’s not just playing well, but playing at a near-historic level when you consider he’s averaging 17.3 points per game while shooting 70.3 percent from the field to go with 11.2 rebounds. No player in NBA history has ever averaged 15 or more points and 10 or more rebounds while shooting better than 70 percent from the field. As well as he has played, point guard Darius Garland is the straw that has been stirring up one win after another for the Cavs this season.
Anthony Edwards, Minnesota
On the majority of the teams in the NBA, Anthony Edwards would be must-see basketball on a nightly basis. But the Timberwolves are led by Karl-Anthony Towns with Edwards more than comfortable being at his side. But as important as the 21.5 points and 5.8 rebounds and 3.7 assists Edwards brings to the game on a nightly basis, one of the keys to being a good “Best Man” baller in the NBA, is speaking out from time to time to remind your main guy how amazingly awesome he is. “He’s the best player on the floor every night. He’s gotta kill ‘em,” Edwards said.
Bob
MY NOTE: Uhmm, how about Wiggins? Anthony Davis? Ayton? Bam? Sounds like he doesn't think the Celtics are not "wed to the idea of winning" since he didn't include Jaylen Brown. Did he wait for the celebratory champagne to wear off before coming up with this list?
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dboss Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:08 am
Writing a little somethin' turned into a lot of nothin'
dboss- Posts : 19220
Join date : 2009-11-01
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by Ktron Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:41 pm
Who is Jaylen Best Man too? I think he and Jason are 1 B and 1 B.bobheckler wrote:https://fullcourtpress.bulletin.com/nba-teams-that-are-wed-to-the-idea-of-winning-at-the-highest-levels-have-an-elite-best-man-baller-right/
NBA teams that are wed to the idea of winning at the highest levels, have an elite "Best Man" baller right?
So I went to a wedding this weekend, hung out with lots of longtime friends, including the best man. And that got me thinking about who the "Best Man" ballers are in the NBA. Who did I miss?
Sherrod Blakely
Today
So I spent this weekend attending the wedding of Boston Globe columnist Gary Washburn, a wedding that I pulled double-duty at as the emcee and as one of Gary’s groomsmen.
Courtesy of A. Sherrod Blakely
As enjoyable as the laughs and libations were, at some point I had to get back to reality and, you know, write a little somethin’ somethin’ about the NBA.
The more I thought about what to write, the more I kept flashing back to the wedding which brought together so many of my sports journo brothers from another mother.
Among them was one of the first people I met in the business years ago, James Black, who is Director of Sports Programming, Strategy with Yahoo! Sports.
It was cool to see JB who was Gary’s best man which got me thinking…
Who are the NBA’s best, “Best Man” ballers?
You know, the guy who is kind of a big deal, but is a clear No. 2 to that team’s main event/superstar.
There’s a lot of guys who fit the mold, but only a handful are truly “Best Man” ballers.
Khris Middleton, Milwaukee Bucks
The 6-foot-8 Middleton does exactly what a Best Man should do, and that is to make sure he does his part to make sure the main attraction (Giannis Antetokounmpo) gets the ring. As great as Antetokounmpo has been in the league, the Bucks would not be the defending NBA champions if it wasn’t for Middleton’s steady-as-she-goes brand of basketball. He’s never going to wow you with fast-break dunks on anyone. He’s not going to hit you with a killer-crossover, either. What he does as good as any second option in the NBA, is get buckets. He’s so good that in what has been a relatively down year for him, he’s still dropping 18.5 points per game while dishing out five assists and grabbing 5.6 rebounds, numbers that only 12 other players in the league average as much or more than, this season. But what really put him on the top of this list? What else? The ring, people.
Rudy Gobert, Utah
Gobert has won multiple Defensive Player of the Year awards, but the Jazz is led by Donovan Mitchell. Gobert has been a reliable number two option to Mitchell, steadily becoming more impactful offensively which makes Utah a much tougher foe. This season, Gobert is averaging a double-double of 14.6 points and 15.1 rebounds to go with 2.2 blocks per game.
Tobias Harris, Philadelphia
Even before Ben Simmons’ future in Philly was on the outs, Harris was doing his part to play that “Best Man” role to Joel Embiid. And with Simmons out of the picture indefinitely, Harris’ status with the team is not in question anymore. He is the next best thing on this Sixers roster, to Embiid. His shooting numbers are slightly down this season, but he’s still chipping in 18.9 points along with 8.2 rebounds and 3.3 assists per game with the latter two categories close to being career-best numbers. He would rank higher if the Sixers (15-12, sixth in the East) had a better record.
Jarrett Allen, Cleveland
One of the early leaders for the league’s Most Improved Player award, Allen has played well enough to where he will get serious All-Star consideration this season. He’s not just playing well, but playing at a near-historic level when you consider he’s averaging 17.3 points per game while shooting 70.3 percent from the field to go with 11.2 rebounds. No player in NBA history has ever averaged 15 or more points and 10 or more rebounds while shooting better than 70 percent from the field. As well as he has played, point guard Darius Garland is the straw that has been stirring up one win after another for the Cavs this season.
Anthony Edwards, Minnesota
On the majority of the teams in the NBA, Anthony Edwards would be must-see basketball on a nightly basis. But the Timberwolves are led by Karl-Anthony Towns with Edwards more than comfortable being at his side. But as important as the 21.5 points and 5.8 rebounds and 3.7 assists Edwards brings to the game on a nightly basis, one of the keys to being a good “Best Man” baller in the NBA, is speaking out from time to time to remind your main guy how amazingly awesome he is. “He’s the best player on the floor every night. He’s gotta kill ‘em,” Edwards said.
Bob
MY NOTE: Uhmm, how about Wiggins? Anthony Davis? Ayton? Bam? Sounds like he doesn't think the Celtics are not "wed to the idea of winning" since he didn't include Jaylen Brown. Did he wait for the celebratory champagne to wear off before coming up with this list?
.
Ktron- Posts : 8378
Join date : 2014-01-21
Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by bobheckler Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:04 pm
Curry just broke Ray Allen's 3pt fgm record vs NYK.
Specifics tomorrow.
Bob
.
Specifics tomorrow.
Bob
.
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by RosalieTCeltics Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:25 pm
I have been waiting for the world to start realizing the Williamson is NOT going to be what everyone is saying he already is. How many times has he been hurt? This weight issue is going to follow him for his career, and I wish everyone would stop comparing him to Charles Barkley. Barkley may have had weight problems, but he was one heck of a ball player. Zion has a long way to go to even come near Barkley. Just because he can block shots and dunk does not make him a stud.
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dbrown4 Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:39 am
Yep, Rosalie, you have to be on the court to rack up the stats that count!
db
db
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by bobheckler Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:31 am
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/stephen-curry-takes-rightful-spot-as-3-point-king-his-next-hurdle-is-joining-lebron-among-all-time-greats/
Stephen Curry breaks Ray Allen's all-time 3-point record in matchup against Knicks at Madison Square Garden
Curry entered the night just two 3-pointers away from breaking the record
By Colin Ward-Henninger
13 hrs ago
1 min read
Stephen Curry was already the NBA's de facto 3-point king. On Tuesday night, he made it official.
With his second 3-pointer in the Golden State Warriors' matchup against the New York Knicks, Curry passed Ray Allen to become the NBA's all-time leader with 2,974 career 3-pointers. Curry entered the game two 3-pointers away from breaking the record, and made the historic basket with 7:33 left in the first quarter on Tuesday night.
Golden State Warriors
@warriors
H I S T � R Y
Stephen Curry is officially the greatest shooter this game has ever seen
https://twitter.com/i/status/1470917348550791168
Curry's accomplishment is all the more remarkable considering it took Allen 1,300 career games to set the previous mark. Curry broke the record in just his 789th career game, adding to his long list of NBA 3-point records, including career 3-pointers per game (3.eight), 3-pointers in a single season (402), most games with double-digit 3-pointers (22) and most 3s in a calendar month (96). Earlier this season, Curry passed Allen's mark of most career 3-pointers in the regular season and postseason combined.
It was only a matter of when, not if, Curry would break Allen's record, so he's had plenty of time to put things in perspective in the leadup to Tuesday night's accomplishment.
"I don't even have words for it, to be honest," Curry said earlier this season. "It's not just getting the record. There's another caveat of hoop heads knowing volume and efficiency is huge. Like, mastering both. So the fact that I have -- I know I still got a lot more in my career -- been able to shoot the percentage that I have in the regular season over the course of my career ... with how defenses have changed against me and the shots that I take, and all of that, to me is pretty special. But to get to that number is a big deal."
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We bring sports news that matters to your inbox, to help you stay informed and get a winning edge.
At 33 years old, Curry is playing arguably the best basketball of his career as the Warriors pursue another title, so there's no telling where his record will stand by the time he hangs up his sneakers. With the 3-point volume increasing every season, there's a decent chance that a player will one day break Curry's record (Draymond Green said he thinks the mark will only last for "five to six more years"), but for now the greatest shooter of all time has rightfully earned his place as the NBA's most prolific 3-point marksman.
Bob
MY NOTE: Curry is the best shooter I've ever seen, that's for sure, and not just because the numbers speak for himself. Ray Allen and Reggie Miller had their shot motions, Ray in particular was extremely precise in his technique, but we've all seen Steph throw up shots off balance, fading left/right, every which way from everywhere including the logo.
789 games vs 1200. That's amazing. Ray played 1300 career games and retired when he was 38. That means he was 2/3 of the way through the season, in his 37th year, when he broke Reggie's record. Steph's only 33 and is averaging 5.4 3pt fgm/game. He's also averaging over 26ppg in >34mpg, so he's still playing at a very high level. There is no reason why he couldn't/shouldn't be doing this for another 2-3 years. Draymond thinks this record will only last 5-6 years? Maybe the 2977 3pt fgm that Steph has this morning will fall, but he's not done yet. That's what the GSW front office was thinking when they signed Curry through 2025-2026 (for $59.6M in his last year). That's 4 more years under contract after this one, and we're only 1/3 through this one.
.
Stephen Curry breaks Ray Allen's all-time 3-point record in matchup against Knicks at Madison Square Garden
Curry entered the night just two 3-pointers away from breaking the record
By Colin Ward-Henninger
13 hrs ago
1 min read
Stephen Curry was already the NBA's de facto 3-point king. On Tuesday night, he made it official.
With his second 3-pointer in the Golden State Warriors' matchup against the New York Knicks, Curry passed Ray Allen to become the NBA's all-time leader with 2,974 career 3-pointers. Curry entered the game two 3-pointers away from breaking the record, and made the historic basket with 7:33 left in the first quarter on Tuesday night.
Golden State Warriors
@warriors
H I S T � R Y
Stephen Curry is officially the greatest shooter this game has ever seen
https://twitter.com/i/status/1470917348550791168
Curry's accomplishment is all the more remarkable considering it took Allen 1,300 career games to set the previous mark. Curry broke the record in just his 789th career game, adding to his long list of NBA 3-point records, including career 3-pointers per game (3.eight), 3-pointers in a single season (402), most games with double-digit 3-pointers (22) and most 3s in a calendar month (96). Earlier this season, Curry passed Allen's mark of most career 3-pointers in the regular season and postseason combined.
It was only a matter of when, not if, Curry would break Allen's record, so he's had plenty of time to put things in perspective in the leadup to Tuesday night's accomplishment.
"I don't even have words for it, to be honest," Curry said earlier this season. "It's not just getting the record. There's another caveat of hoop heads knowing volume and efficiency is huge. Like, mastering both. So the fact that I have -- I know I still got a lot more in my career -- been able to shoot the percentage that I have in the regular season over the course of my career ... with how defenses have changed against me and the shots that I take, and all of that, to me is pretty special. But to get to that number is a big deal."
CBS Sports HQ Newsletter
We bring sports news that matters to your inbox, to help you stay informed and get a winning edge.
At 33 years old, Curry is playing arguably the best basketball of his career as the Warriors pursue another title, so there's no telling where his record will stand by the time he hangs up his sneakers. With the 3-point volume increasing every season, there's a decent chance that a player will one day break Curry's record (Draymond Green said he thinks the mark will only last for "five to six more years"), but for now the greatest shooter of all time has rightfully earned his place as the NBA's most prolific 3-point marksman.
Bob
MY NOTE: Curry is the best shooter I've ever seen, that's for sure, and not just because the numbers speak for himself. Ray Allen and Reggie Miller had their shot motions, Ray in particular was extremely precise in his technique, but we've all seen Steph throw up shots off balance, fading left/right, every which way from everywhere including the logo.
789 games vs 1200. That's amazing. Ray played 1300 career games and retired when he was 38. That means he was 2/3 of the way through the season, in his 37th year, when he broke Reggie's record. Steph's only 33 and is averaging 5.4 3pt fgm/game. He's also averaging over 26ppg in >34mpg, so he's still playing at a very high level. There is no reason why he couldn't/shouldn't be doing this for another 2-3 years. Draymond thinks this record will only last 5-6 years? Maybe the 2977 3pt fgm that Steph has this morning will fall, but he's not done yet. That's what the GSW front office was thinking when they signed Curry through 2025-2026 (for $59.6M in his last year). That's 4 more years under contract after this one, and we're only 1/3 through this one.
.
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by Ktron Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:45 am
Steph is phenomenal. He didn’t have to break any records to prove that.
His numbers are incredible but if we’re going to present stat after stat than we should complete the task and be thorough in doing so.
How was the 3 pt shot used during the bulk of Allen and Miller’s playing days?
I recall watching a few NBA classic games where both took a total of 2 3’s in separate games. The 3 pointer wasn’t being used as it is today. So many more are being taken because of the way the game has changed. That has to also enter into the equation.
With that being said, I too believe that Curry is the best shooter I have witnessed since I’ve been living on this great big ball of dirt we call the earth.
The eye test tells me that. The eye test also tells me that he is a great all around player and not just a shooter.
His numbers are incredible but if we’re going to present stat after stat than we should complete the task and be thorough in doing so.
How was the 3 pt shot used during the bulk of Allen and Miller’s playing days?
I recall watching a few NBA classic games where both took a total of 2 3’s in separate games. The 3 pointer wasn’t being used as it is today. So many more are being taken because of the way the game has changed. That has to also enter into the equation.
With that being said, I too believe that Curry is the best shooter I have witnessed since I’ve been living on this great big ball of dirt we call the earth.
The eye test tells me that. The eye test also tells me that he is a great all around player and not just a shooter.
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dbrown4 Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:23 am
Ktron,
The excessive 3-ball would have been discovered much earlier back in the 70's with simple math. Expected Value. It's been a part of probability theory forever. If a player shoots a 2-pt shot and the league average/percentage made for 2-pt shots is about 50%, your expected value (EV) is 1 point. (2 x .50) Same with a 3-ball. If you shoot a 3-point shot and the NBA overall percentage from its stat book is approx. 33%, the EV is 1 given where the 3-point line is today. If your team is consistently shooting the 3-ball better than 33%, then it is worth your time as a team to keep launching. It results in more bang (points) for your buck, the excess risk of launching a 3-ball. Prior to Monday night's game you can see the antithesis of this with our Celtics. They are not paying attention to the "analytics". They just keep launching and wind up with 2-26 games more than normal. No one is minding the store shall we say.
Now of course there are different places on the court you can shoot a 2-ball and the closer you get to the basket, the higher percentage made you will get. (With layups and dunk, it is the highest I would imagine without looking.)
I'm always amazed that the teams from the 70's on never figured this out until "analytics" became the hot word.
Now as more players emulate Curry, the league can counteract and move the 3-point line out further to make the EV closer to 1 point for 3-balls and thus make it less desirable to launch. Or they could make a 4-point shot further out. Lots of options.
I remember Larry Bird would use the 3-ball constantly in game-killing situations, normally toward the end of games. At those stages, it would be a huge demoralizer if you were on the other side seeing a Bird ball drop from 3 late in the game. It meant the game was over. But Larry wasn't launching from 3-ville in the 80's. No one was. At that time, the league was just wondering if the doors would be open the next night.
I think what Curry has done is absolutely perfected that shot from anywhere on the half-court behind the line. That's what is amazing. I think the record he broke and until he retires will stand like DiMaggio's 54-game hit streak. It will be unbreakable.
A lot of people like myself can launch as many 3-balls as Curry has but you have to make them at a very good clip as to get to where he's going to leave this record. He's in his prime still. That's crazy, too! What he has mastered is the accuracy and mechanics part of the equation. He's hitting 43.1% of his threes. That's ridiculous, Gus!! That's what he needs to bottle up and sell after the NBA lights go out for him. Teach people how to do that and on top of all he makes in the NBA he will be a gazillionaire twice over. Life is good if you are a Curry!
db
The excessive 3-ball would have been discovered much earlier back in the 70's with simple math. Expected Value. It's been a part of probability theory forever. If a player shoots a 2-pt shot and the league average/percentage made for 2-pt shots is about 50%, your expected value (EV) is 1 point. (2 x .50) Same with a 3-ball. If you shoot a 3-point shot and the NBA overall percentage from its stat book is approx. 33%, the EV is 1 given where the 3-point line is today. If your team is consistently shooting the 3-ball better than 33%, then it is worth your time as a team to keep launching. It results in more bang (points) for your buck, the excess risk of launching a 3-ball. Prior to Monday night's game you can see the antithesis of this with our Celtics. They are not paying attention to the "analytics". They just keep launching and wind up with 2-26 games more than normal. No one is minding the store shall we say.
Now of course there are different places on the court you can shoot a 2-ball and the closer you get to the basket, the higher percentage made you will get. (With layups and dunk, it is the highest I would imagine without looking.)
I'm always amazed that the teams from the 70's on never figured this out until "analytics" became the hot word.
Now as more players emulate Curry, the league can counteract and move the 3-point line out further to make the EV closer to 1 point for 3-balls and thus make it less desirable to launch. Or they could make a 4-point shot further out. Lots of options.
I remember Larry Bird would use the 3-ball constantly in game-killing situations, normally toward the end of games. At those stages, it would be a huge demoralizer if you were on the other side seeing a Bird ball drop from 3 late in the game. It meant the game was over. But Larry wasn't launching from 3-ville in the 80's. No one was. At that time, the league was just wondering if the doors would be open the next night.
I think what Curry has done is absolutely perfected that shot from anywhere on the half-court behind the line. That's what is amazing. I think the record he broke and until he retires will stand like DiMaggio's 54-game hit streak. It will be unbreakable.
A lot of people like myself can launch as many 3-balls as Curry has but you have to make them at a very good clip as to get to where he's going to leave this record. He's in his prime still. That's crazy, too! What he has mastered is the accuracy and mechanics part of the equation. He's hitting 43.1% of his threes. That's ridiculous, Gus!! That's what he needs to bottle up and sell after the NBA lights go out for him. Teach people how to do that and on top of all he makes in the NBA he will be a gazillionaire twice over. Life is good if you are a Curry!
db
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by cowens/oldschool Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:46 am
Can you imagine if Bird was in this era and coached and told to put up 9-10 3’s a game? Adding all that to what Bird could already do would have been mind boggling statistically!!! How many more 40 and 50 point games would he put up? Sh!t I miss the clever out of this world post moves with either hand.
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by dbrown4 Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:51 am
Looking back and admittedly out of sequence, Bird was the Gulf War Norman Schwarzkopf of his generation. He only brought out the laser targeting on Iraqi sites to show off our military prowess. Bird was an assassin.
db
db
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Re: Around The Horn 2021-2022 Season
by Ktron Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:57 pm
db, I understand the analytics regarding the 3 point shot and I agree that no one does it better than Curry. Someone else may come along and exceed what he has done. Maybe, and maybe not. As I said he’s a phenomenon and lots of his shots are considered “bad” shots but he makes bad shots. Anyone else trying duplicate what he’s doing may be getting themselves into something that they wish they hadn’t. Steph’s efficiency with the 3 is incredible but look around the league at some of theses other so-called 3 pt specialists and you’ll see a lower efficiency. Kids trying it today is bad for the game in my opinion. Sure the analytics tells us why its better to shoot the 3 but one has to be strategic about it because it really is a Low percentage shot. Going in for a clear layup and kicking it out for a 3 sometimes is not a great strategy. Just lay the ball in because the percentages there are in your favor.dbrown4 wrote:Ktron,
The excessive 3-ball would have been discovered much earlier back in the 70's with simple math. Expected Value. It's been a part of probability theory forever. If a player shoots a 2-pt shot and the league average/percentage made for 2-pt shots is about 50%, your expected value (EV) is 1 point. (2 x .50) Same with a 3-ball. If you shoot a 3-point shot and the NBA overall percentage from its stat book is approx. 33%, the EV is 1 given where the 3-point line is today. If your team is consistently shooting the 3-ball better than 33%, then it is worth your time as a team to keep launching. It results in more bang (points) for your buck, the excess risk of launching a 3-ball. Prior to Monday night's game you can see the antithesis of this with our Celtics. They are not paying attention to the "analytics". They just keep launching and wind up with 2-26 games more than normal. No one is minding the store shall we say.
Now of course there are different places on the court you can shoot a 2-ball and the closer you get to the basket, the higher percentage made you will get. (With layups and dunk, it is the highest I would imagine without looking.)
I'm always amazed that the teams from the 70's on never figured this out until "analytics" became the hot word.
Now as more players emulate Curry, the league can counteract and move the 3-point line out further to make the EV closer to 1 point for 3-balls and thus make it less desirable to launch. Or they could make a 4-point shot further out. Lots of options.
I remember Larry Bird would use the 3-ball constantly in game-killing situations, normally toward the end of games. At those stages, it would be a huge demoralizer if you were on the other side seeing a Bird ball drop from 3 late in the game. It meant the game was over. But Larry wasn't launching from 3-ville in the 80's. No one was. At that time, the league was just wondering if the doors would be open the next night.
I think what Curry has done is absolutely perfected that shot from anywhere on the half-court behind the line. That's what is amazing. I think the record he broke and until he retires will stand like DiMaggio's 54-game hit streak. It will be unbreakable.
A lot of people like myself can launch as many 3-balls as Curry has but you have to make them at a very good clip as to get to where he's going to leave this record. He's in his prime still. That's crazy, too! What he has mastered is the accuracy and mechanics part of the equation. He's hitting 43.1% of his threes. That's ridiculous, Gus!! That's what he needs to bottle up and sell after the NBA lights go out for him. Teach people how to do that and on top of all he makes in the NBA he will be a gazillionaire twice over. Life is good if you are a Curry!
db
I really wish some of these experts would stop messing with the game. I dread the day that they try and implement a 4 pt shot.
Bombs away ball doesn’t make the game more exciting to me. I suggest that the experts leave the game alone. It’s never going to be perfect. It’s a game.
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