Roster Reset

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Post by NYCelt Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:57 pm

I'm not sure if this post belongs here, or in the Grant Williams topic. Both have debates involving depth.

I believe there will be a different look to the way an NBA roster is built. In Boston, and every other NBA city.

For those that look at what the Celtics have built so far and say we're looking pretty thin on the bench, worse than before, I agree. I do think that is now the way of the NBA with the new CBA coming at every team. This appears to me to be a game changer, even now in anticipation of what is to come.

It looks to me like we may have among the strongest starting rotations going, maybe a decent rotation among the first 7. There could be a couple of different starting lineups using single big or double big. After that it's a lot of wait and hope and see what happens on the bench. Same everywhere, I expect. But Brad and Co. are trying. Signing some no names, yes, but with specific skill sets, especially on the defensive side. Looks like a plan is in place to me. It's a shot worth taking and may pay off.

Again, I think this is just the way it is. Something had to change with this roster anyway. There was no title coming. Now, there are at least new possibilities that didn't exist before.
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Post by bobheckler Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:21 pm

With the signing of Jordan Walsh we now have 13 players under contract.

Jayson Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Derrick White
Al Horford
Kristaps Porzingis
Robert Williams
Malcolm Brogdon
Sam Hauser
Payton Pritchard
Luke Kornet
Dalano Banton
Oshea Brissett
Jordan Walsh

Looking at it from another perspective, here it is by position (more or less, given today's positionless NBA):

Bigs - Zinger, Al, RWill, Luke
Wings - Jayson, Jaylen, Sam, Oshea, Dalano, Jordan
Guards - Derrick, Malcolm, Payton


Our depth at guard is gone.  We went from no depth under Ime (Brad) to great depth under Joe (Brad) and now right back to being maybe 9 deep, if you are impressed with Sam and Payton. If you like one playing 20+mpg all season but not both then we're only 7-8 deep.

And that's assuming Malcolm stays healthy.


Bob


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Post by jrleftfoot Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:39 pm

Celtics are working out Alize johnson. I guess the theory is that if you can walk and chew gum, no that's wrong, if you spend enough time digging in haystacks.... seriously, word is, the kid can rebound, has a high motor, and was a high school point guard.Wth, why not? A drunk named Mel Fisher found the Santa Maria.
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Post by sinus007 Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:50 pm

Hi,
I think, guys, you're barking at the wrong tree. We have plenty.
Look at what Mia have achieved with a bunch of nobodies. Why can't we?
I hope that a year of head-coaching for CJ, presence of good assistants and good nose for talent by Brad will compensate for absence of top notch bench and depth.

AK
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Post by jrleftfoot Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:35 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I think, guys, you're barking at the wrong tree. We have plenty.
Look at what Mia have achieved with a bunch of nobodies. Why can't we?
I hope that a year of head-coaching for CJ, presence of good assistants and good nose for talent by Brad will compensate for absence of top notch bench and depth.

AK
I'm going to bark one more time and let it go, probably much to the relief of other board members. Celtic fans have been Told 2 closely related lies. The first was that Stevens was given the go ahead to do what was necessary to win . . Somebody, I think it was dboss, said that they never promised to exceed the second ceiling. If so, that was a completely meaningless statement, because we were right up against it. The only possible thing to do to stay under the 2d cap was to jettison salary and shop the bargain bins, which is exactly what we have done since that statement was made.The second ,concomitant lie was that we were going "all in"to win THIS YEAR. If that were the case, Grant Williams would still be a Celtic and some marginal guys would be looking for work or decorating the end of somebody's bench. I thought we were marginally  better after the Kristraps trade. I really don't  see how anybody not wearing wizard of oz gasses could say that anything that has happened since then , except drafting Walsh, has made us better. Years down the line? Maybe. We sure have a plethora of second round draft choices. Just don't lie to us and say you're putting all your chips on the table now.
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Post by sinus007 Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:50 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:
sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I think, guys, you're barking at the wrong tree. We have plenty.
Look at what Mia have achieved with a bunch of nobodies. Why can't we?
I hope that a year of head-coaching for CJ, presence of good assistants and good nose for talent by Brad will compensate for absence of top notch bench and depth.

AK
I'm going to bark one more time and let it go, probably much to the relief of other board members. Celtic fans have been Told 2 closely related lies. The first was that Stevens was given the go ahead to do what was necessary to win . . Somebody, I think it was dboss, said that they never promised to exceed the second ceiling. If so, that was a completely meaningless statement, because we were right up against it. The only possible thing to do to stay under the 2d cap was to jettison salary and shop the bargain bins, which is exactly what we have done since that statement was made.The second ,concomitant lie was that we were going "all in"to win THIS YEAR. If that were the case, Grant Williams would still be a Celtic and some marginal guys would be looking for work or decorating the end of somebody's bench. I thought we were marginally  better after the Kristraps trade. I really don't  see how anybody not wearing wizard of oz gasses could say that anything that has happened since then , except drafting Walsh, has made us better. Years down the line? Maybe. We sure have a plethora of second round draft choices. Just don't lie to us and say you're putting all your chips on the table now.

jrleftfoot,
I think you missed my point. It's not about "why" and " how", it's about what we have and what we can achieve with that. Smile

AK
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Post by gyso Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:18 pm

I'm not sure that they're done yet.  I cannot imagine what they will do, but this cannot be all.

I agree with jrleftfoot that Brad's "green light" statement and then letting Grant go for nothing does not add up.  We've been just under the 2nd apron since the Porzingis trade.   Brad made the statement after that.  It would have been better if Brad had just shut his pie-hole and NOT try to spread his useless green pixie dust fake promise.  

They did the same thing around the trading deadline last season.  Green light for winning it all.  I'm starting to see a pattern.  Unless . . .

They really aren't done yet.  

We're waiting.

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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:44 pm

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I think, guys, you're barking at the wrong tree. We have plenty.
Look at what Mia have achieved with a bunch of nobodies. Why can't we?
I hope that a year of head-coaching for CJ, presence of good assistants and good nose for talent by Brad will compensate for absence of top notch bench and depth.

AK

+1

The key is to break these new guys in over the season, they have as much or more talent than the Miami no names. You have to keep on using them to build up their games and confidence, this is the new NBA where with such high prices for the stars, every team with max players is going to have to rely on minutes with no names.

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Post by NYCelt Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:26 pm

As of July 6…

Guards:

Derrick White
Malcolm Brogdon
Payton Pritchard
Dalano Banton
JD Davison (possible 2-way)

Forwards:

Jayson Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Sam Hauser
Oshae Brissett
Jordan Walsh
Justin Champagnie (non-guaranteed)

Bigs:

Kristaps Porzingis
Al Horford
Robert Williams III
Luke Kornet

Keys to success with those 15…

Brogdon and RWIII need to stay healthy
Porzingis needs to repeat his career year from ‘22 - ‘23
Horford needs to contribute 25 - 30 steady min per game

Lineups that might be worth watching for…

Brown, Tatum, Porzingis, Brogdon, White

Tatum, Porzingis, RWIII, Brogdon, Brown
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Post by jrleftfoot Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:58 pm

gyso wrote:I'm not sure that they're done yet.  I cannot imagine what they will do, but this cannot be all.

I agree with jrleftfoot that Brad's "green light" statement and then letting Grant go for nothing does not add up.  We've been just under the 2nd apron since the Porzingis trade.   Brad made the statement after that.  It would have been better if Brad had just shut his pie-hole and NOT try to spread his useless green pixie dust fake promise.  

They did the same thing around the trading deadline last season.  Green light for winning it all.  I'm starting to see a pattern.  Unless . . .

They really aren't done yet.  

We're waiting.
+1
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Post by dboss Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:05 am

In defense of Brad 'Danny Stevens, I'll play the part of the contrarian.

The big splash was the Porzingis acquisition.   We have not had a top end center on this team since KG.  KP is a career 20 ppg scorer.  No one wanted to see Marcus go but on par this trade was favorable for Boston.  

In KP's introductory news conference Brad talked about having the green light to add to the team.  No one in the media asked him if that meant going over the 2nd apron.  All of us should know by now that the ownership group has NEVER given Celtics management a blank check.  

As much as we may want a full frontal assault, this is a war of attrition.  Brad has to remain mindful of the cost of keeping the Jays long term and adding enough talent around them to keep the Celtics in contention.

The ownership group knows damn well that blowing past the 2nd apron is going to happen.   Why do it this year when new money for the Jays has not even hit the books?  

So Grant was a casualty of that reality.  

I really do not know what Celtics fans expect.   The Celtics have very limited options for bringing on players in absence of making a trade or two. That is because they have already spent a lot of money assembling the group that we have now.  

There are tweaks to this team coming.  Brad has assets at his disposal in terms of draft picks to pretty much make any deal that he wants to.  So far Brad has reconfigured his bench around a totally different concept.  He has injected the team with a collection of very athletic players with length because he wants to see how that impacts the team defensively and in transition.   Our perimeter defense did not look that great last year and the team got beat in transition way too often.

We lost Smart and Grant along with the physicality that they bring.  That hurts.  However Brad can add a physical defensive guy or two to play that role.  

I really like the idea that the Celtics have added young, very energetic and defensive minded guys to the roster so let's give Brad a chance to add or subtract from the mix going forward.
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Post by worcester Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:33 am

Dboss...I concur 100%.
Jr...Mel found the Atocha. I have been diving with his son Kyle who is a good soul. Once I asked him what those funny marks were on his abdomen, and he said his passionate Peruvian ex-wife had stabbed him there in an argument nine times! And I thought my ex was bad! Shut my mouth.
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Post by jrleftfoot Fri Jul 07, 2023 1:57 pm

worcester wrote:Dboss...I concur 100%.
Jr...Mel found the Atocha. I have been diving with his son Kyle who is a good soul. Once I asked him what those funny marks were on his abdomen, and he said his passionate Peruvian ex-wife had stabbed him there in an argument nine times! And I thought my ex was bad! Shut my mouth.
                                                                                                                     small world .I didn't think anybody would have a clue as to who Mel Fisher was.I have a few stories about him, but I won't speak ill of the dead
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Post by worcester Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:07 pm

I hired Mel's admiralty claim lawyer David Horan to establish my own claim. David is top notch. Mel I never met, but his daughter Taffy is a good gal.
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Post by Ktron Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:40 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ktron wrote:
bobheckler wrote:https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/07/what-grant-williams-trade-to-mavs-means-for-celtics-offseason-possibilities.html



What Grant Williams trade to Mavs means for Celtics offseason possibilities

Updated: Jul. 06, 2023, 1:11 a.m.|Published: Jul. 06, 2023, 1:11 a.m.


By Brian Robb | brobb@masslive.com



The Celtics made their second big move of the offseason on Wednesday night, agreeing to sign-and-trade Grant Williams to the Mavericks in a three-team deal that lands Boston two second-round picks, a second roundd pick swap and a trade exception worth somewhere between $6-7 million per league sources. Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.com was first to report the deal.


The move comes as little surprise in the wake of the Kristaps Porzingis blockbuster. Adding a big man with a pricy salary was a sign that Williams was heading out the door without Boston making some payroll cuts elsewhere. Williams would have been tempting to keep at midlevel money for the Celtics but he got his bigger deal from the Mavericks for four years and $54 million. That was high enough for the Celtics to walk away from with a little sweetener from the Mavericks in second-round picks to facilitate a deal. With luxury tax penalties factored in, Williams would have cost Boston about $40 million next year without clearing out more payroll. That’s a lot for a fourth big off the bench.


While the Celtics’ future tax issues look a little easier to manage without Williams on the books, the roster itself is now more of a question mark. Boston’s frontcourt is full of relatively slow-footed defensive bigs in Kristaps Porzingis, Al Horford and Robert Williams with their most versatile big in Grant Williams heading to the lone star state. Backing up that less-than-durable group on the roster at the moment is Oshae Brissett, Sam Hauser, Luke Kornet, Jordan Walsh and a player to be named later. While one of Horford or Rob Williams will come off the bench, the Celtics frontcourt will suddenly look mighty thin if any of the top three bigs goes down with an injury. With Horford likely resting back-to-backs again this year, Boston’s depth will be tested plenty already.


Don’t look for the Celtics to find much notable help on the free agent market however to fill the spot. Even after losing Williams, the team won’t still have access to their taxpayer midlevel exception ($5 million) without cutting more payroll. The Celtics can’t use the mid-level exception to acquire a player in a sign-and-trade either since they are already over the first apron with their payroll.

Barring a trade, that means the Celtics are just relying on veteran’s minimums now to fill out the roster without a guarantee of a big role. In effect, the Celtics traded Smart and Grant Williams for Porzingis, Jordan Walsh and what has now turned into a 2024 first round pick and six second-round picks.


That’s a lot of additional ammo for the Celtics to deal but none of that helps this roster contend next season without some additional action. Boston’s defensive versatility has taken a big hit in the last couple of weeks and while names like Brissett and Banton are cheap replacements, the configuration of this roster looks soft in a couple of areas. How Brad Stevens addresses those spots will loom quite large from a depth standpoint but there’s no questioning the Celtics taking a step back on Wednesday night without a subsequent move.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Well, now we know why Wyc told Brad last year that "this is the year, we're not building for future years.  Do what it takes to win #18 this year".  Wyc knew about this new CBA and knew what it meant with his then-current payroll.  Jaylen getting named to an All-NBA team might have been a bit of a mixed surprise (good surprise because it elevates the quality and marketability of his roster; bad surprise because he's now dealing with having to fork over a supermax contract that is driving these cuts).

This is where Brad's eye for marginal talent that can be developed will be key.  He has to find players (Brissett?  Blanton?) who languished in their previous roles and teams but who can blossom here under Joe's system.  And while I have been as hard on Joe as anybody, maybe even more than anybody, this might be his sweet spot too.  His years of experience developing players, going back to his college coaching days but also as an assistant coach for the, then, Maine Red Claws and onward to assistant coach of the Celtics might be just what we need to turn a bench of not battle-tested young'uns into terrors.  We now have Sam Cassell and Charles Lee for veteran coaching leadership (if Joe will let them, as long as they don't undermine his authority).

Z is definitely an upgrade at center, and that was our weakest link.  We struggled to win inside last season.  We all bemoaned how we were SO 3-centric.  Well, that was in part because we didn't have a beast inside.  I hated having to give up Marcus to get him but, when I go completely cold about it, getting a borderline All-Star like The Unicorn plus two 2nd round picks for Marcus Smart is a good deal for us.  However, the loss of Marcus and Grant makes us very vulnerable to injuries as well as the loss of their talents and, most impactfully, their toughness.  Who's going to step up and be our next dawg?  I'm going to float a name here...Payton Pritchard.  He is one feisty, hyper-competitive little SOB.  I could see him being the next "I'll get in anybody's face if that's what it takes" Celtic.  It's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters, and all that...

BTW, I'm doubling down on my bet that Jordan Walsh makes the team.  I'm not saying he won't be in Maine a lot to get reps, I'm sure he will, but I'm still on board with him getting an NBA contract and not a two-way.  By giving up Grant without getting a player in return we're now down to 12 players, not including him, so there are 2-3 slots open.  We lost a rabid, physical defender with Marcus and need one desperately, and we won't find one cheaper than a #38 pick, and it's pretty clear at this point that money is a serious, serious issue for our front office.  If Brad wants to pick up another veteran to fill out the bench he's going to need to go extra cheap for the remaining 1-2 slots.



.
Bob, agree with many of your points here but Payton Pritchard? Oh you're right. He is one feisty, hyper-competitive little SOB, just like my daughters 2 Shih Tzu’s. They never quit:>). But you are right. He is feisty and all that but he looks like he just got out of Navy boot camp. Taint nobody scared of Pritchard. Bob we need A dog. S**T at this point I’ll settle for a Collie.

On another note. Ive been watching a few Summer League games and the Spurs have a Champagnie on their team too. First name Julian. He’s knocking down a high percentage of 3’s and looks damn good (I know SL).
From the looks of things Brad may have bought the discounted Great Value bottle of the bubbly.


ktron,

I know that Payton Pritchard isn't going to make anybody BTFU, but he won't back down and that will/could/should inspire his teammates.  I'm not looking for a goon, I'm looking for someone who will make you have to kill him before he stops coming at you.  "You might as well kill me now because if you don't I'll be right back here in your grill".

The days of players throwing down are in the past.  They cost too much now, owners don't want them damaged by a stray fist.  They're treated like (Yao) Ming Vases.  Too many minutes in an NBA season for you now?  Oh, don't worry bubala, we'll let you sit games out so you can get your beauty sleep.  I just want someone who challenges, a player with a chip on their shoulder and won't take any shite from anybody and that's Pritchard.  He's not the one I would have wanted, the two I wanted are gone, but we need at least one player like that.  All the players we have now are just too damn nice to get mean.


Bob


.
Can’t disagree on that premise.
I was thinking though that maybe we can dump Kornet and hire Jokic’ big brother just to sit on the bench and every now and then stand up and stare at the likes of a Draymond or a Dillon Brooks.
I don’t know which I’d enjoy seeing more of, His stare down or the War Criminal in hot pursuit of the nearest exit.

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Post by bobheckler Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:49 am

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/07/what-brad-stevens-is-still-looking-to-add-to-celtics-roster-this-offseason.html


What Brad Stevens is still looking to add to Celtics roster this offseason


Published: Jul. 13, 2023, 10:12 a.m.

By Brian Robb | brobb@masslive.com



LAS VEGAS — The Celtics only have one spot open on the 15-man roster at the moment but Brad Stevens does not sound like he is done tweaking the team’s roster amid a host of offseason possibilities.

Boston’s president of basketball operations spoke Wednesday night at Summer League for the first time in free agency. The team has already added Oshae Brissett and Dalano Banton on minimum deals but looks poised to still tinker with the Celtics roster in the weeks to come.


“I think we’ll try to add obviously a little bit,” Stevens said. “I’d like to get a little more depth, maybe on the wing, and then also maybe with a 4/3 type. I feel pretty good about our bigs. We’ve got a couple two ways, so we’ve got some things we’re still very much looking at.”


The Celtics do have a number of non-guaranteed contracts on the roster so it would be easy for Stevens to create more roster space after Summer League if upgrades were acquired via trade or free agency. Boston also acquired a pair of second-round picks and a trade exception in exchange for dealing away restricted free agent Grant Williams to the Mavericks.

“We’re in a unique position obviously where, when we traded, we weren’t going to take much back,” Stevens said of the deal. “But I do think it’ll be a good opportunity for him and it gives us some flexibility here as we move forward. But he did a good job. He’s a hard guy to lose.”


Despite losing Marcus Smart, Stevens also sounded confident in the team’s backcourt as currently constituted, particularly the point guard position.

“Tatum brings the ball up as much as anybody on our team,” Stevens said of the guard rotation. “So we kind of look at it as a positionless team. But Malcolm, Payton, Derrick, Tatum—those will be the guys that get us into offense. You saw tonight, JD is on the court but Banton got us into our offense most of the game. So we’re not really going to have that always designated like you would say, ‘that is a point guard, that is a 2 guard, that is a 3.’ But they’re all really capable. Jaylen as well. Those guys all bring the ball up the court.”

The Celtics currently only have the flexibility to use veteran’s minimum contracts on the free agent market with their payroll but do have a trade exception worth $6.3 million after the Williams deal. The team has also acquired seven future draft picks in trades over the last month.


“We’ll see where it all lands,” Stevens said of the added picks. “But there’s a lot of things to use those things for.”


Bob
MY NOTE:  There's actually quite a bit here, especially coming from someone as tight-lipped as Brad.  

“I’d like to get a little more depth, maybe on the wing, and then also maybe with a 4/3 type.  I feel pretty good about our bigs."  So I guess there's not much point in paying attention to Oleg or Azuibuke anymore, huh?  Brad's fair-haired boy, Luke Kornet, appears safe.  You cannot finesse the biggest mofo on the court.  You have to body them up and who do we have for that?  We had marginal player Semi Ojelaye for years because he was one of the few who had the footspeed and strength to defend Giannis in the handful of games we played against the Bucks.  A roster spot consumed to defend one key opponent.  I'll admit that Luke impressed the shite outta me last season (proving he was an NBA player at all was fall down shocking to me) but I'd still like to have a beast like Azuibuke banging with the Joel Embiid's and Nikola Jokic's of the league.  

"Those guys (Tatum, White, Brogdon, Pritchard, Banton, Brown) all bring the ball up the court.”  "So we’re not really going to have that always designated like you would say, ‘that is a point guard, that is a 2 guard, that is a 3.’"  A point guard-less offense.  This makes me uncomfortable.  When Marcus was running the offense it was coherent.  His assist-to-turnover ratio was 2.73:1, which is excellent.  Only Derrick White had a better assist-to-turnover ratio @ 3.25:1 but Smart had more assists on a /minute basis.  Defense aside we lost the most prolific passer, and the 2nd most efficient floor general, we had.  Brad's talking about "fixing" that by having less prolific, less efficient playmakers doing more.  Nope.  Not buying that as a solution.  Relying more on widespread mediocrity is not the answer to loss of excellence.
 





.
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Post by NYCelt Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:50 pm

It sounds to me as if Brad may be running a bit of a screen himself.

I think he's deflecting and avoiding answering completely.

What leads me there is the classic twin comments about being position-less and who brings the ball up. Both are usually head fakes. Position-less basketball was more of an attempted fad and an invented term. It had it's roots in NCAA ball with Jabari Parker due to the way he was utilized in multiple roles each game. Overall, a big is still a PF/C, a wing is still a wing and a guard is still a guard. The player bringing the ball up has little to do with playing point guard. Al Horford grabs a rebound and brings it up. Is he a point guard? Most of the point guard's work is done after the ball crosses the mid-court line, especially with set plays. So Al brings it up and passes it to Brogdon. Position-less? Nope. There are times offenses do run through a forward, depending on the roster and group skill-set. I'd buy Brad's explanation more if he was talking about a Larry Bird type player frequently initiating set plays.

Nice try, Brad. My guess is your shopping list is bigger than you're telling. You just don't know if you're going to get every item checked off.

My guess, anyway.
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Post by worcester Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:25 pm


Bob Cousy recently made the same point, Bob. The Celts need a PG to distribute the ball to Z, JB, and JT, especially now that Marcus is gone. Cooz liked Smart but did think he lacked some of those pure PG skills. Nevertheless, MS was a better PG than we currently have, although I think Derrick will step up.
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Post by dboss Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:20 pm

With the SL games just about completed where does the team stand in our roster reset.

I would be very interested in opinions about what they need to do to complete the roster.

The Celtics have 14 players under contract.

2 of those players have non-guaranteed contracts.

Kornet contract will not be fully guaranteed until 1/10/24

Champagnie 2023-24: non-guaranteed, $50,000 guaranteed 8/1/23, $350,000 guaranteed opening night, fully guaranteed 1/10/24

My thoughts.  share yours

It does not appear that the Celtics will bring back Blake Griffin.  Kornet is pretty much in the safe zone

Champagnie is a different story.  His contract has several end points before it becomes fully guaranteed.

Champagnie is the player most likely to be cut because the Celtics have added 3 players in Brissett, Walsh and Banton who have similar profiles.  Our SF depth off the bench begins with Sam Hauser.  

If Champagnie is cut, the Celtics would have 13 guys under contract.

The next question is Boston's intentions on building out the roster to 15 guys on opening day.

If the answer is yes, then potentially Brad could add 2 players (assuming Champagnie gets cut)

It is my expectation that Brad will hold off on having a 15 man roster.  He will have 3 (2 way) guys to play if needed.

Last question.  What should be their #1 need (guard, forward or big) and you can specify 1,2,3,4 or 5)

My preference would be to go with a big (4)
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Post by worcester Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:33 pm

Cheerleaders
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Post by bobheckler Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:39 pm

worcester wrote:Cheerleaders



DING! DING! DING!!!

We have a winner.


Bob


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Post by bobheckler Sat Jul 15, 2023 6:30 pm

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 14 minutes ago
According to multiple league sources, Celtics summer league standout Jay Scrubb has agreed to a two-way contract with Boston.


Bob
MY NOTE: So there's JD and Jay. As of this year a team can have 3 two-way players. I'm glad. I like Jay Scrubbs. Congrats.


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Post by dboss Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:33 pm

bobheckler wrote:Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 14 minutes ago
According to multiple league sources, Celtics summer league standout Jay Scrubb has agreed to a two-way contract with Boston.


Bob
MY NOTE:  So there's JD and Jay.  As of this year a team can have 3 two-way players.  I'm glad.  I like Jay Scrubbs.  Congrats.


.
I like the signing and the depth it adds if needed.

The 'J' team.
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Post by bobheckler Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:13 pm

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/07/what-can-brad-stevens-do-with-celtics-roster-after-summer-league-deals.html



What can Brad Stevens do with Celtics roster after Summer League deals?


Published: Jul. 19, 2023, 11:26 a.m.


By Brian Robb | brobb@masslive.com



NBA Summer League came to an end this past week as Celtics players and executives went their separate ways for the next couple of months. Boston finished Summer League with a 2-3 record leading into a quieter time in the team’s offseason after some big roster changes by Brad Stevens over the past month.

Stevens did some additional work in Las Vegas by agreeing to two-way deals with JD Davison and Summer League guard Jay Scrubb. However, between Jaylen Brown’s unresolved extension talks and potential other roster openings, there is still work to be done. Let’s take a closer look at the group that Stevens has assembled and what possibilities lie ahead this offseason.


2023-24 Celtics projected payroll (14 players signed)

Kristaps Porzingis: $36 million

Jayson Tatum: $32.6 million

Jaylen Brown: $30.7 million

Malcolm Brogdon: $22.5 million

Derrick White: $18.1 million

Robert Williams: $11.8 million

Al Horford: $10 million

Payton Pritchard: $4 million

Luke Kornet: $2.4 million (non-guaranteed)

Oshae Brissett: $2.2 million

Dalano Banton: $2 million

Sam Hauser: $1.9 million

Justin Champagne: $1.9 million (non-guaranteed)

Jordan Walsh: $1.1 millón

JD Davison (two-way)

Jay Scrubb (two-way)


Open roster spots on 15-man roster:  1

Open two-way roster slots:  1


Total guaranteed salary: $174.1 million to 12 players

Salary cap for 2023-24:  $136 million


Luxury tax line for 2023-24:  $165.2 million

First Apron:  $172.3 million

Second Apron:  $182.7 million


Analysis:  The first intriguing decision the Celtics have to make soon is with the future of Champagne, who had a mediocre run in Summer League last week. He was a late-season signing last year with Boston’s open roster spot at the very end of the regular season so he hasn’t played any meaningful minutes with the team. Champagne’s partial guarantees on his deal begin to kick in on August 1st with a $50,000 guarantee and that jumps up to $350,000 on opening night. With luxury tax penalties figured in, those guarantees are far more costly to Boston’s books than those totals indicate. Champagne could compete for a roster spot in camp with just the $50,000 guarantee but it sounds like the Celtics have bigger goals for the wing spot based on Brad Stevens’ comments last week.


“I think we’ll try to add obviously a little bit,” Stevens said of the roster. “I’d like to get a little more depth, maybe on the wing, and then also maybe with a 4/3 type. I feel pretty good about our bigs. We’ve got a couple two ways, so we’ve got some things we’re still very much looking at.”

The Celtics don’t have many options to add in free agency beyond giving out more veteran’s minimum deals. They would need to cut salary elsewhere in a trade to gain access to the taxpayer midlevel ($5 million) under the second apron so cheap deals are probably what’s left for them to spend on the open market.

Boston did add a $6.2 million trade exception in the Grant Williams sign-and-trade that could be helpful in a minor move. Whether they want to use that now or keep it as a tool for the trade deadline remains to be seen. If Boston wants to do something bigger, they will likely need to use a sizable salary with Malcolm Brogdon being an obvious candidate to be moved after his trade to the Clippers fell through last month. Stevens also has an open two-way slot to fill, likely with a big for added depth.


Boston has the ability to have 21 players on their roster entering training camp so with just 16 signed right now, there are still a lot of possibilities left. Keep an eye out for at least two more signings/trade additions to the 15-man roster along with a two-way deal to be added in the coming weeks.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Adding Porzingis might have been a necessary move (despite the loss of Smart) because the one area where our team did not dominate last year was in the pivot, in the paint, but the addition of his salary has really hamstrung us quite a bit and killed our depth.  I realize it's the first 8, at most 9, that wins Championships and not the bottom third of the roster but we saw what happened two years ago when we didn't have much depth.

Our "Championship 9" as of now:

1.  Jayson Tatum
2.  Jaylen Brown
3.  Kristaps Porzingis
4.  Derrick White
5.  Malcolm Brogdon
6.  Al Horford
7.  Robert Williams
8.  Sam Hauser
9.  Payton Pritchard

Everybody after #7 makes me uneasy.  I'm not saying they can't play, I'm saying I have qualms about them being Championship caliber.  Is Payton Pritchard Eddie House?  Is Sam Hauser James Posey?  See what I mean?

Oshae Brissett and Dalano Banton didn't make the list because they are young (Oshae is 25 and Dalano is only 23) and relatively inexperienced (Dalano has played 975 minutes.  Oshae has played 3301 minutes in 172 games, so he's fairly experienced).  By comparison Sam has played 1448 minutes in 106 games and Payton has played 2912 minutes in 185 games.  Could Oshae replace Sam sometime during the season?  Yes, he has the best shot of doing that because he has the experience, he just needs to learn Joe's system, but he's not the shooter Sam is.  Not.  Even.  Close.  Same with Dalano vs Payton.  Not.  Even.  Close.  And Dalano is younger and doesn't have anywhere near as much experience as Payton, so the path for him to move him down isn't as clear.

An argument could easily be made we couldn't win a Championship with a Big 3 of Tatum, Brown and Smart but could be made that a Big 3 of Tatum, Brown and Z could get us #18, but we gutted the quality players on our bench for that by losing Grant to Dallas and having to bring Brogdon up to starter to replace Smart.  In my never-humble opinion Brad needs to pull off another coup (or two) and move some of the players we have @ 10+ and try to get a top 9 player in return.  We don't need a top 7 for those players, which would be expensive, we just need a #8 or #9.  We need (once again, in my opinion) to replace Sam or Payton or move one or both down one or two places on the list with a new player.  Oshae might do that by mid-year, and that would be great.  We need him to be a Championship level #8 or #9 by the playoffs, not in January.  I don't see anyone on the roster who could bump Payton, not if we need a back court shooter.   Jay Scrubb can shoot, whether he can shoot like Payton I don't know, but he's a two-way player and they cannot play in the playoffs.

Good thing Brad has > 2 months to practice his magic tricks.



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Post by gyso Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:26 pm

Bob,

IMO, we are going back to a 2-big lineup.  Smart was replaced by Porzingis, White remains a starter and Brogdon still comes off the bench.  Brogdon was brought in to solidify the bench and that has not changed, at least until (if?) he is traded.

It looks like Oshae is going to replace Grant.  He'll slide into the 8th spot, pushing Sam and Payton down a spot.  Hopefully.  Great expectations, right?  If it works out, he is your Posey.

So, we added Porzingis and Oshae.  We lost Smart, Grant and the ghost of Gallo.  Are we better?  Worse?  Just different?

Sam, Payton and Luke (  Cool  ) could each improve with another year under their belts, but is it enough?  Like you, I don't believe it is.  

Brad needs to pull another rabbit out of his hat.

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