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Post by dboss Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:02 pm

BobH

I do not think that Brogdon will start.  He excelled in his 6th man role last year and I think that they will want to continue to use him in that role.

The addition of Porzingis screams 2-big lineup.

The Celtics could not win a championship with a big 3 of JT, JB and Marcus because that is not a big 3.

I never liked the starting backcourt of Smart and White.  Reason:  Just not enough fire power.  That pair only averaged 24 PPG.  That has to be the lowest scoring backcourt in the NBA.

Starting White and Brown will push our starting backcourt production up to somewhere in the 40 PPG level.  JT at the 3 is a top 5 scorer in the NBA and KP at center is a top scoring center in the NBA.

The KP addition simply gives the Celtics a more balanced offensive attack in their starting unit.

The big big question is rotation guys 8-10.  I do not see SH as a top 8 guy on the team and the same can be said for PP.   Those guys are not top 8 rotation players. Therefore Brad needs to add a player that can be an everyday 8th guy in the rotation.   Can Brissett be that guy?  I do not know but he is the more likely candidate in absence of another addition to the team.  Ideally, we need a guard, a wing and a big off the bench. The Wing is the obvious position that needs to be strengthened.
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Post by RosalieTCeltics Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:50 pm

I loved Marcus for what he brought to the floor, 9 years of crazy basketball, it was fun. Do not know what Porzingas brings to replace him, but, in my eyes this was a move that owners felt had to be made. As much as they loved Marcus, this team needed a shock to it's system. I am not convinced that Brogden is here for the duration. Notice no comments from him at all since the season ended. My opinion is, he was not a happy camper. Maybe he wants to be moved, who knows??? So much has been made of how old Al is, but they wore him out in that Philly series and he had nothing left for Miami. I have read all the reports about Rob, here is hoping this is HIS year and he gives the team everything they have been saying he could. If so, it could be one heck of a year. I still feel we need a decent point guard, and Brad knows it too
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Post by dboss Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:44 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I loved Marcus for what he brought to the floor, 9 years of crazy basketball, it was fun.  Do not know what Porzingas brings to replace him, but, in my eyes this was a move that owners felt had to be made. As much as they loved Marcus, this team needed a shock to it's system.  I am not convinced that Brogden is here for the duration.  Notice no comments from him at all since the season ended.  My opinion is, he was not a happy camper.  Maybe he wants to be moved, who knows??? So much has been made of how old Al is, but they wore him out in that Philly series and he had nothing left for Miami.  I have read all the reports about Rob, here is hoping this is HIS year and he gives the team everything they have been saying he could.  If so, it could be one heck of a year.  I still feel we need a decent point guard, and Brad knows it too

Rosalie

I think MB will be here for the remainder of next season.  I just do not see the Celtics trading Smart and then trading MB.  He probably was not thrilled with almost being traded but at the same time, he is a professional and as such realizes that it's a business.  The hand writing is on the wall down the road, if the Celtics want to keep the jays into the future.  MB's salary along with the recent KP extension, probably forces Boston to move him.  They do not have to do that this season.  He will be easier to move with just one year remaining on his contract.  

I thought AH was worn out before the Sixers series.  In round 1 he only averaged 5.8 PPG against Atlanta.  I felt that they played him too many minutes during the regular season but that was influenced by RW missing a ton of games early and the lack of quality big man depth off the bench.  

Brad making the trade to get KP was driven by a clear need to upgrade our center position.

I believe that D White will do well as our starting PG.  His career high in assists per game came during the 21-22 season with the Spurs before he got traded to the Celtics..  He averaged 5.6 assists.  He did not have anything close to the offensive talent as he will have now.  He can focus on distribution, keeping the defense honest and defending at a high level.  He plays with great pace on offense.

It's a tricky situation.  You always hope that a team can add high end talent through the draft and the Celtics managed that with Danny's B2B #3 picks.  However the cost of keeping that level of talent or trading for it is very expensive.  From what I can see, Brad and his front office team are doing a great job within the financial parameters that impact the team.
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Post by RosalieTCeltics Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:06 pm

I agree with most of what you say. My point about Al, yes, he was struggling, his shot was flat, but without Al, we never ever would have beat Philly. He was tremendous, especially in the last two games. He was in Embid's head constantly. I kept saying in the second half of the season that he was going to be worn out by the playoffs, and basically, for the most part, he was except for Philly. There is a time when he will have to take a seat and come off the bench, it is going to happen. I love Derrick White's game, his personality is so even keel, but there is a fire in his belly, so I believe you are right, he will be okay
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Post by bobheckler Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:59 am

Bobby Manning @RealBobManning
yesterday
#Celtics technically maintain up to 4 roster spots with Champagnie, Kornet, Banton all partial or non-guaranteed through opening night or January. Flexibility for camp competitions, a Blake Griffin return or bigger moves.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Banton's contract is a two year contract.  There is $200K guaranteed, which jumps to $1M if he makes the opening night roster.  The second year is a team option.  Champagnie is guaranteed $50K by 8/1, $350K opening night and all $1.927M guaranteed on 1/10/24.  Luke's $2.413M contract is fully NON-guaranteed until 1/10/24, then it's FULLY guaranteed.  I'd be surprised if Banton didn't make the opening night roster, barring some weird offseason injury.  He didn't play much in SL but he played enough, and he played well in his 2nd game, that you could see something that Brad and Joe might like, such as that he's being billed as a 6'7" point guard and we just traded away our best point guard.  Brad has until 1/10/24 to decide what to do with whatever is remaining of the combined $4.34M from Champagnie and Kornet.  Champagnie's $1.9M can be included in a trade before 1/10/24 and the receiving team could just cut him and save the money.  If they are paying luxury tax, and most teams are, that'd be saving more than just the $1.9M.



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Post by worcester Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:03 am

Our best PG based on an analysis of all offensive stats last season was Derrick White...not Marcus Smart.
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Post by bobheckler Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:16 am

worcester wrote:Our best PG based on an analysis of all offensive stats last season was Derrick White...not Marcus Smart.


worcester,

According to basketball-reference.com:

2022-2023................................Offensive Rating....................Defensive Rating....................Net Rating
Marcus Smart............................111......................................112......................................-1
Derrick White............................124......................................112......................................+12

These numbers do not, of course, take into account intangibles, in which Marcus Smart is richer than Midas.


Bob


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Post by dboss Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:37 pm

I may take a flyer on Wenyen Gabriel. Not much of an offensive player but I like his energy and athleticism.

He plays the 4 (Lakers) Attended school in MA. Went to KY. Has a very interesting background
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Post by dboss Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:42 pm

https://www.google.com/search?q=wenyen+gabriel+highlights&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS1064US1064&oq=Wenyen+Gabriel+hi&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgBEAAYFBiHAhiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgwIARAAGBQYhwIYgAQyDAgCEAAYFBiHAhiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB7SAQ44NjY1Mjk4NzRqMWoxNagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:3516f4bd,vid:6M8CqBxEiVQ
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Post by dboss Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:32 pm

I expect Champagnie to make it into the preseason.  Then, the Celtics will make a decision to keep him or waive him.  This basically will be similar to an Exhibition 10 contract where he will earn $50K.

IMO he will not be on the opening day roster because his skill level and positional flexibility is already accounted for.

Brad Stevens & Company will stay below the 2nd apron.  

Brad Stevens is one smart cookie.  All those 2nd rounders will provide him with an option to  buildout his rosters in later years with inexpensive players.  

As fans we just want a quality product on the floor however the cost of making that happen requires a juggling act.  

The two short timers are MB and AH.  I predict that the Celtics will be looking to move  MB next summer at the latest.  AH also has 2 years remaining.  His contact will still be on the books in 24-25 when the BIG payday for JB kicks in.  Rob will have another year after AH contacts ends.

A D White extension is getting closer.

The Celtics have moved into a win now timeframe.  

I think a big key to success will hinge on at least one of our recent additions (not KP) becoming an everyday rotation guy.

Whatever is added to the team for the upcoming season will be a low cost addition so do not get your hopes up.
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Post by bobheckler Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:42 pm


Bobby Manning @RealBobManning
about 3 hours ago
Not a huge surprise, but Mazzulla confirmed Derrick White will start at PG for the #Celtics this season. Says the organization has talked to Brogdon, and they're taking small steps in the 'healing process' regarding reintegrating him back into the team after the near trade...


Bob


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Post by worcester Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:49 pm

MB's $22M paycheck should be a pretty effective bandaid in the healing orocess.
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Post by bobheckler Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:52 pm

worcester wrote:MB's $22M paycheck should be a pretty effective bandaid in the healing orocess.


worcester,

I'd love to take two of those and see you in the morning.


Bob


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Post by worcester Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:59 pm

We may know Saturday if we found one of those bandaids.
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Post by bobheckler Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:09 pm

https://us.yahoo.com/sports/celtics-head-coach-joe-mazzulla-090036789.html



Celtics head coach Joe Mazzulla updates Malcolm Brogdon’s recovery


Celtics Wire
Sat, July 29, 2023 at 2:00 AM PDT


The construction of the Boston Celtics‘ roster for the 2023-24 NBA season could have ended up very differently had the original version of the deal sending Washington Wizards star big man Kristaps Porzingis to the Celtics had been completed. That attempt would have sent 2023 Sixth Man of the Year Malcolm Brogdon to the Los Angeles Clippers.

Of course, that attempt did not pan out. Brogdon’s elbow tendon injury derailed the deal and caused concern about his future availability. Instead, veteran point guard Marcus Smart headed to the Memphis Grizzlies.

At the signing of Jaylen Brown’s supermax contract extension, the Celtics updated the floor general’s recovery. Head coach Joe Mazzulla shared how well Brogdon’s progress has been with the injury.

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/NSM6855951183?selected=NSM8881694422


Bob


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Post by RosalieTCeltics Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:17 pm

This was a very concerning interview.  And, the most annoying thing about the whole story is, after the whole thing blew up, a couple of weeks later they wanted to revisit the trade. By then, Marcus was gone and the damage was done.  I am wondering if they are not telling us that Malcolm has told them privately that he would like a trade.  I know he is under contract for this coming year, but a disgruntled player is not the healthiest thing for a locker room already dismantled in part with the loss of Smart, Williams and even, Blake Griffin. This is going to be a story that needs to be followed.  What a shame after the year Brogden had until the finals
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Post by dboss Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:50 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:This was a very concerning interview.  And, the most annoying thing about the whole story is, after the whole thing blew up, a couple of weeks later they wanted to revisit the trade. By then, Marcus was gone and the damage was done.  I am wondering if they are not telling us that Malcolm has told them privately that he would like a trade.  I know he is under contract for this coming year, but a disgruntled player is not the healthiest thing for a locker room already dismantled in part with the loss of Smart, Williams and even, Blake Griffin. This is going to be a story that needs to be followed.  What a shame after the year Brogden had until the finals

Rosalie

I do not see a source for (they wanted to revisit the trade)

I am sure that MB was not particularly happy that the Celtics were willing to part ways after just one year and a 6th man award showing.

However he may be thinking, gee they traded Marcus who was our top tenured player..  They really wanted to get the KP deal done.  

That is what it comes down to.  A basketball decision that reflected a need to add a significant piece and having to part with a core player.

All the kiss and makeup is a pile of horse manure.  MB has been around the block a few times  and he is no dummy.  He can see the handwriting all over the wall.  He is very unlikely to finish the remaining two years left on his contract in Boston.  The Celtics really need him now so buttering him up is somewhat disingenuous unless they give it to him straight.  'Malcolm we need you for this upcoming season but we may have to trade you after that'   The Celtics did not try to trade him to some bum team so i believe they would seek to find a favorable landing spot down the road.
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Post by bobheckler Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:58 pm

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 45 minutes ago
Can confirm @ShamsCharania report that Celtics have waived Justin Champagnie. He would have had $50,000 of his deal guaranteed if he remained on the roster past today. C's now have had 2 open roster spots.


Bob


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Post by bobheckler Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:07 pm

As of August 1…

Guards:

Derrick White
Malcolm Brogdon
Payton Pritchard
Dalano Banton
JD Davison (2-way)
Jay Scrubb (2-way)


Forwards:

Jayson Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Sam Hauser
Oshae Brissett
Jordan Walsh


Bigs:

Kristaps Porzingis
Al Horford
Robert Williams III
Luke Kornet


13 players under NBA contracts and two out of three two-ways.   We need to add one more to have the league minimum 14.   You can go with 13 for a few weeks but that all.

Where do you our biggest remaining need?


Bob


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Post by RosalieTCeltics Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:52 pm

Backup for JT, and ? A guard

I feel something might be coming, would not be surprised to see a move before camp. Banton is low $ guarantee before camp, he did not play that much and did not impress in summer, but then again, it was the summer league. We definitely need a backup Wing, and….Pritchard may do well enough while playing ball before camp to see himself traded as he wants. Any decent guards out there still floating around or is a deal in the making
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Post by jrleftfoot Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:40 am

From what I've read , Brogdon is happy he wasn't traded. These guys are professionals. I don't think they get their feelings hurt as easily as people think. It seems to me that when Mazzulla spoke of a " heakling process" he was referring to Brogdon's tendon , though some of the nitwit utubers jumped to the conclusion that he was talking about " feelings."
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Post by worcester Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:55 am

Astute, jr. Astute.
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Post by RosalieTCeltics Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:41 am

Celtics focused on ‘healing’ relationship with Malcolm Brogdon
August 2, 2023
Before the Boston Celtics parted ways with Marcus Smart as part of the trade to acquire Kristaps Porzingis, Malcolm Brogdon was supposed to find himself in a new city this summer. The original trade package for Porzingis would have seen Brogdon head to the Los Angeles Clippers. However, the Clippers pulled the plug in the eleventh hour, forcing the Celtics to pivot and incorporate the Memphis Grizzlies into the deal.
Since then, there have been questions regarding how well Brogdon would have taken the news that Boston was willing to part ways with him. This past season, Brogdon accepted a bench role for the first time in his career and excelled. In fact, Brogdon performed so well in his new role that he was named the 2023 Sixth Man of the Year.
Buy Celtics Tickets
Yet, the Celtics were still willing to trade him.
I only post what I read, this has been in a couple of Boston newspaper stories. I do not make it up as I go along
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Post by bobheckler Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:41 am

Bobby Manning @RealBobManning
yesterday
Upcoming #Celtics guarantee dates: Dalano Banton - $200K already $1M opening night $2M Jan. 10 Luke Kornet - Non-guaranteed $2.4M Jan. 10 Champagnie ends up counting as $0. Rest of roster is fully guaranteed, including Sam Hauser’s $1.9M.


Bob


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Post by RosalieTCeltics Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:00 am

what has happened to Blake Griffin? did he retire? another team sign him? Personally, he was a plus on this team, and I was never a Blake fan before last year. Any spot for him? Or is he gone?
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