Re: a humble prayer for KG's health

by **Sam** Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:19 am

GK,

I'm sorry if you found my post "threatening." I deliberately took great pains to word it so it would be interpreted as "threatening" only by someone who felt some guilt. It should have come as good news to someone with the motives you claim.

In case you didn't notice, I also tried to take some of the heat off you by asking other posters to let me handle this situation. I thought there might be some overreaction by some posters when you politely explained that the GK was a mistake. In fact, I suggested three measures that might make it easier for you on the board. Four if you include my welcoming you to the board. Actually, five if you include my invitation to you to contact me privately if you wish. But I guess you elected to ignore those gestures in favor of attempting to denigrate my "objectivity." Heck, you have no corner on being raised a Christian. I just didn't know that "Thou shalt ignore sincere overtures" was one of the Ten Commandments.

My job is not to be prejudiced against someone, as you imply VERY incorrectly but, rather, to try to moderate problems. Regardless of who might have been at fault, a problem occurred, and I tried to moderate it.

Go back and read over my post again. Go ahead; I'll wait right here. It was full of encouragement. I never accused you of one single thing. I was quite supportive. Yes, in the interest of completeness, there was also a warning. Because I don't know you, I wanted to lay out the ground rules as best I could.

Read or post as you wish, and I'll continue to monitor as I wish. I will change your moniker to KG so that, if you do decide to post again, you won't have the specter of Green Killer working against you.

Sam

by **jeb** Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:20 am

If I am wrong here I offer sincere apologies to GK or KG.

The timing strikes me as funny. Along with the tone. Anyway Sam I love you buddy and hell it's the last thing I would want to do to make it tougher on you.

I am going to ease on out of this thread. Best wishes for a happy new year to all board members and thank God KG is shackled by a muscle injury in his calf and not his knee. On that ALL us celtic fans can just be very happy.

Of course nobody would wish misfortune and injury on a great core player like Kevin.

Beyond that I will place all of my trust in the mods to keep this a wonderful place for knowledgeable Celtic fans to find great conversation and in my case here extended family. Basketball

by **Sam** Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:31 am

Thanks Jeb. That's much appreciated.

Happy, HEALTHY New Year to you and Dawn too.

Sam

by **beat** Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:39 am

Jeb

I just don't know about this nor shall I worry because we have good controls here. and Sam I think your response was quite appropriate.

We can always use new people on here and GK or KG whoever is certainly welcome as you so pointed out.

Just can't help but wonder when a person makes his debut here when we are down just a tad?

Not gonna lose any sleep over it! Happy New Year to Everyone

beat

by **bobheckler** Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:06 pm

Just popped in on this little row.

First off, as someone who exchanged many posts with Greenkiller on BDC, I feel I can state quite affirmatively that GK/KG is not him. Greenkiller might try to play the "wolf in sheep's clothing" to get into the flock, but he cannot disguise his grammar. Greenkiller is an immigrant and English was his 3rd language. As a result his spelling and grammar was not anywhere as near as good as our GK/KG here. If your English is badly flawed, for whatever reason, you cannot suddenly become Hemingway just because you've decided to become sly.

More pertinent to the issue of KG's injury, and GK's opinion of what's coming out of the Celtic front office about it, I think there's some legitimate reason for doubt. He is absolutely right about us being misled in '09 about the seriousness of it. MrKleen is also absolutely right about the Celtics not having any obligation to tell us anything other than what they think is in the best interests of the franchise. The two are not mutually exclusive. The proof will be in the pudding. When KG comes back will tell if Danny was right or hosing us again and, unless you are KG or his doctor/trainer/masseuse, we have no other way of knowing at this time either way.

Great events and momentums are what often draw people to things. Winning a championship, winning streaks and yes, sometimes scary injuries and losing streaks. I don't think we should pigeonhole someone simply based upon the timing of their arrival, but rather upon the body of their work over time and across multiple issues. GK might be bitter about how the organization handled the reporting of KG's '09 injury but we might find he's the biggest Rondo fan we've ever seen. We haven't gotten there yet.

If GK (or, I guess, KG since Sam said he'll change his ID) decides this isn't for him and wants to get the flock out, that's his call. If he wants to stick around and stand his ground, that's his call too. I remember how shaky TJ's start was, including and especially with me (I remember Outside and babyskyhook, two other Laker fans, having a chat with him and telling him that I'm a nice guy and he should relax), and yet after he settled down a bit (and we all settled down a bit after our initial visceral reaction to him being a hardcore Laker fan) he became a thoughtful, knowledgeable poster (who occasionally pissed people off, but not all the time). Once TJ's aggressive rhetoric cooled and started writing calmly, he became easier to swallow and, as a result of that, so was I for him.

Anyway, my unwanted 2c,

bob

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by **mrkleen09** Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:25 pm

bobheckler wrote:The proof will be in the pudding. When KG comes back will tell if Danny was right or hosing us again and, unless you are KG or his doctor/trainer/masseuse, we have no other way of knowing at this time either way.

Bob - very well written and thoughtful post.

I guess I dont see how anyone here expects DA to know what is going on in KGs leg. He is being pestered every 5 minutes for an explanation on what happened and more so, for a prediction on how long KG will be out of commission. If he says 3 weeks and KG is back in 2, people will say DA was playing coy. If he says 3 weeks and KG is out for 9 - everyone will say we got the run around again.

I think the truth of the matter is two fold

a) They dont know yet.....no one does, not even KG....so how would it be possible to make a prediction?

b) They dont have any obligation to show their cards to their opponents. So say they are playing the Lakers and Spurs in 3 weeks. Why would they give Greg Popovich or Phil Jackson ANY advanced information on where their team might be? I would rather make the preparation of my opponents more difficult by being "secretive " about who is and who is not playing. If you give NBA coaches weeks of advanced notice on how to plan for a KG-less team - they will be much more prepared to attack the Celtics.

I think this is what is lost in all this 'we are loyal fans and deserve straight answers' conversation.

Anyway, lets hope KG is back soon and all of this discussion becomes moot.

by **Outside** Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:55 pm

BobH,

Nice post. I hope GK/KG considers what you said.

One eensy teensy clarification -- I purposely do not position myself as a Laker fan. Yes, I live in Southern California, and yes, I do follow the Lakers, but I participate on this board first and foremost as a general basketball and NBA fan. I was born and bred a SF/GS Warrior fan, and they will always be the team closest to my heart (much to my dismay the past 20 years). It's no coincidence that my avatar includes Nate Thurmond, my favorite Warrior, in a group shot with other great NBA centers. Besides the Warriors and Lakers, I also follow the Clippers (as if being a Warrior fan wasn't painful enough) and take more than a passing interest in the Sacramento Kings. I do post occasionally on Laker-related topics, and I suppose in those situations I often provide a countering view to what would be considered an anti-Laker position, but I intentionally do that rarely and do it from the viewpoint of a general NBA fan. I hope that doesn't classify me as a Laker fan, because I consider my interests well outside the realm of being one team's fan.

So I guess I beat your 2c to death and raise you 2c.

As for the main topic at hand...

bobheckler wrote:More pertinent to the issue of KG's injury, and GK's opinion of what's coming out of the Celtic front office about it, I think there's some legitimate reason for doubt. He is absolutely right about us being misled in '09 about the seriousness of it. MrKleen is also absolutely right about the Celtics not having any obligation to tell us anything other than what they think is in the best interests of the franchise. The two are not mutually exclusive. The proof will be in the pudding. When KG comes back will tell if Danny was right or hosing us again and, unless you are KG or his doctor/trainer/masseuse, we have no other way of knowing at this time either way.

Well said. I agree completely.

Outside

by **Sam** Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:59 pm

For what it's worth, I believe in trying my best to gather evidence before making judgments on things like this. I happen to believe that this guy is NOT Greenkiller and is NOT a troll. His gripe about Celtics management mirrored those expressed by many board members over time. I don't happen to agree with this viewpoint, being in the camp that feels management owes us nothing except to try to win a championship. But simply having an opposing opinion is no reason to ostracize someone for politely expressing his very different opinion.

As for "evidence":

• This guy does not exhibit any of the idiosyncrasies of Greenkiller. None of the CAPITAL LETTERS for instance.

• He has a different writing style from Greenkiller, and I consider myself a pretty good analyst of writing styles.

• If this guy were Greenkiller trying to sneak onto the board to cause disruption, he'd have to be pretty stupid to use "GK" as his moniker. I don't believe Greenkiller could resist letting us know who was taunting us. And this guy never taunted us. Not one time. He expressed an opinion.

• This guy's first reaction, after some early responses to his initial post, was to offer to back off and not post any more. Greenkiller's approach would have been to charge ahead with guns ablaze.

• I have this guy's email address (which, of course, I would never reveal), and I have Greenkiller's email address. They are not at all alike. Yes, I know many people have more than one email address. But I believe the weight of evidence trends strongly in the direction that he's not Greenkiller.

• Oh, by the way, it also happens that Greenkiller has been banned from this board, and I believe he was banned by IP number. (Gyso or NYCelt would know better than I.)

I take my role as moderator very, very seriously. I go to the extent of considering all sorts of factors and possibilities (such as the preceding list) when tense situations arise. My modus operandi is to try to defuse such brush fires with the fewest possible negative repercussions.

I have my own methods of doing this; and, frankly, it's often counterproductive when others simultaneously try to do it on their own. It's extremely helpful to read (and respond to) your opinions privately, and my very frequent pleas for private messages and emails are not just empty words. But, at some point, I have to be allowed to do my job. I like to think my track record is not all that bad despite the fact that it's sometimes extremely difficult to be a moderator among good friends with many diverse points of view.

By the way, I did immediately change this guy's board name to "KG," because I believe the initials, "GK," caused the bulk of this problem. From what he says, I guess we've heard the last from him. But, if he does decide to post again (which he's very welcome to do), at least he won't be hamstrung by our memories of Greenkiller.

Thanks to everyone for reading this, for the amazing number of constructive contributions to this board, and for being so understanding of some of the challenges in running the board. Happy, Healthy New Year to all of you and your families.

Sam

by **bobheckler** Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:03 pm

Outside wrote:BobH,

Nice post. I hope GK/KG considers what you said.

One eensy teensy clarification -- I purposely do not position myself as a Laker fan. Yes, I live in Southern California, and yes, I do follow the Lakers, but I participate on this board first and foremost as a general basketball and NBA fan. I was born and bred a SF/GS Warrior fan, and they will always be the team closest to my heart (much to my dismay the past 20 years). It's no coincidence that my avatar includes Nate Thurmond, my favorite Warrior, in a group shot with other great NBA centers. Besides the Warriors and Lakers, I also follow the Clippers (as if being a Warrior fan wasn't painful enough) and take more than a passing interest in the Sacramento Kings. I do post occasionally on Laker-related topics, and I suppose in those situations I often provide a countering view to what would be considered an anti-Laker position, but I intentionally do that rarely and do it from the viewpoint of a general NBA fan. I hope that doesn't classify me as a Laker fan, because I consider my interests well outside the realm of being one team's fan.

Outside

outside,

If someone decides to start a "sticky" that is for "gluttons for punishment", I expect you to be a charter member.

Living in NorCal, I try to root for the local team (whenever they're not playing a team playing in green). It is much tougher than I imagined. It was tough rooting for the Celtics during the 2 decades they sucked, but at least we had Bird etal and before them Cowens etal and before that Russell etal. So, "keeping the faith" was easier. Warrior fans only have Barry. Clipper fans don't even have that. They're in even deeper shit than Cubs fans, because at least Cubs fans don't have an owner that mocks his own players while they're playing.

I pointed out you were a Laker fan only because you identified your allegiance as such when we "introduced" ourselves on a thread started by Sam way back and NOT because you come across as one in your posts. IMO, you are one of the most balanced posters I've read in any sports venue (Sam being another) and that includes posters whose allegiances mirrors my own. Of course, maybe that's just a reflection on where I'm coming from too and my lack of balance when it comes to most things Celtics. I've never claimed to be impartial when it comes to the Celtics and will never try to insult someone's intelligence by suggesting that I am. I try to be a realist, but if I fall off the fence you should better damn well believe I'm falling off towards "greener" pastures. You've done a great job of walking the line, buddy, through a field of thorns. I'm glad you're active on this board.

bob

.

by **Outside** Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:30 pm

Bob,

Thanks for the kind words. As for the "gluttons for punishment" category, I guess I more than qualify, but there's always hope. The Giants won the World Series! I keep hoping for the Warriors, too, and I have new reason to hope with the ownership change.

The Warriors may have been bad the past 20 years, but they were good when I was growing up. I was too young to remember the years Chamberlain and Guy Rodgers played, but they were a good team from 1966-67 on (when I was 10), and they've had lots of good players other than Barry -- my beloved Nate Thurmond, Al Attles, Jeff Mullins, Tom Meschery, Fred Hetzel, Rudy LaRusso, Bernard King, Jamaal Wilkes (on the title team as a rookie in 1975, before he moved to the Lakers), the two-headed center combo of Clifford Ray and George Johnson the title season, Cazzie Russell, Robert Parish before he was traded to the Celtics (what an awful trade), even Jerry Lucas for a while. I looked it up, and Sleepy Floyd still holds the playoff record for most points in a quarter (29) and a half (39). They went through some lean years but were entertaining and moderately successful for a while with "Run TMC" (Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, and Chris Mullin), but there hasn't been a whole lot to brag about since then. Nellie small ball, Chris Webber, Latrell Spreewell... it turned into a black hole I'd just as soon forget about. But there is history there worth remembering, even if they've only won the title once since they moved to the Bay Area. I hope the new ownership can restore the team to that former glory.

Outside

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