what in the world is wrong with the Lakes

They are just getn owned by the griz...not putting up a fight, just epic mackin awful body language.

No teamwork and losing hustle points. Lotta uncertainty in their eyes. Everything seems hard to them right now, guys getn right to the rim unchallenged.

I think Kobe has yet to adknowledge his diminished athletic capabilities...still playing like he can just out athlete opposing players and the truth is that he cant. I fully expect him to adjust and Phil will i am sure add and subtract where needed but something is going on over there and i cant put my finger on what.

Just not much of bobhecks ganas.

Knowing there is some serious hoop iq here at Sam's i ask yall for your thoughts.

Outside what do you think?

Best

Jeb

Lakers now 7 games behind San Antonio in the loss column for best record in the West. I know there are still nearly 50 games to play but that margin will be a difficult one to make up unless Spurs suffer a major injury to Duncan, Parker or Ginobili.

Looks like the Lakes probably won't be the #1 seed in the West this year like they thought was pre-ordained.

I expect San Antonio to fight them fang and claw and right now would call it a draw inna 7 game series with the home court being awful important.

I would think with Bynum in there that the Lakes would be a tad too big for the Spurs but Gasol has gone back to being very passive and hesitant. The lack of teamwork affects pau the worst i think.

Kobe will get better and healthier i THINK but i am starting to wonder if his health issues are not season long. If Kobe goes back to passing and unselfish play I think the lakes can pull right outta this and get back to the finals. But Kobe has to do that or they face implosion.

The new guys Blake and Barnes are both gamers and king hell gym rats but lack athleticism and hence the ability to freelance if things break down.

Wonder if Joe Smith will help them? I cant effin BELIEVE how bad their body language was out there tonight.

It must be driving Sky and MG nuts. Or hell maybe they are not worried about it at all. I guess it's like they felt watching our regular season unfold last year.

jeb

.....and Tony Allen started and had a productive game

Jeb,

I've only seen the Lakers in bits and pieces during their latest troubles, and I didn't see any of the game tonight because we were taking one of my sons back to college. But I can discuss what I've seen in general with them.

I'd point to three key factors behind their lackluster play:

-- Injuries

-- Not going inside enough on offense

-- Lack of commitment defensively

With injuries, Bynum has just come back, Theo Ratliff is still out, and Kobe doesn't look 100%. This has affected them several ways:

-- As we've discussed elsewhere, Bynum's return is a double bonus because he can be a force at both ends of the court and his return allows Pau to play PF, where he is more effective. It will take him another few weeks or even a month or more to be fully back. He doesn't have explosiveness, quickness, and timing yet, plus they're all getting used to him being back in the rotation.

-- Ratliff is an important piece because he is the backup center. Per 36 minutes of play, he gives you 8 points, 7 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks, which is good production for a backup. When Bynum and Ratliff were both out, they didn't have any true centers. They need both of them back to get their rotations right. Joe Smith gives them another option there, but he just joined the team two weeks ago and hasn't played a minute yet.

-- Along the lines you talked about, Kobe isn't 100% healthy but is trying to play as if he is. I've seen a game or two that he tries to "take over" but can't perform like he's done in the past and hurts them more than helps them. In the past, when the Lakers offense bogs down or other guys aren't hitting, Kobe has gone into "mamba mode" to carry the team. In recent years, this has been a good thing in many cases (not always, but many times). He needs to quit doing it because he's not good enough physically to take over like he used to. He needs to either get healthy or adjust his game.

When I saw part of the Lakers-Spurs game, I was befuddled why the Lakers didn't take advantage of their height. With Bynum, Gasol, and Odom, they have such a potentially dominating front line rotation, yet they didn't go to it very often. Part of it could be that Bynum is still recovering, but man, Kobe should quit shooting so darn much and feed the big guys. They look pretty darn good when the move the ball and get shots inside.

In addition to all that, the Lakers don't seem like an elite team defensively. They don't seem committed to putting in the effort to stifle the opposition on every possession. In my opinion, this is the biggest reason why the Lakers aren't as good as they should be. The other stuff will work itself out as the season progresses, but once they make a commitment to defense, they'll be elite again. I'm sure a factor is that they've been to the finals three years in a row, Kobe and Pau had the Olympics, plus Pau had the European championship last year. They're not going to play with peak efficiency and intensity all the time, but if they want to get back to being a championship contender, they need get back to playing with intensity at some point, especially defensively.

Other, less important stuff:

-- Artest is still effective defensively, but he's a liability offensively. When he runs, he looks restricted in his movement, and I'm not sure what that's about. But he apparently still doesn't get the offense (he looks out of position a lot) and doesn't shoot well -- 40% FG, 35% 3PT, 72% FT. Ariza would be nice right about now. I bet both Ariza and the Lakers wish he'd signed that contract.

-- Fisher is valuable in the locker room and in the playoffs, but he obviously doesn't set the world on fire during the regular season. Blake is apparently going through a shooting slump. Together, that means they're not getting much out of that position at the moment.

-- As I've mentioned before, I think their bench is better this year, when they're healthy. Odom, Blake, Barnes, Brown, and Ratliff are a good group of subs. Joe Smith may be a bonus for them. I've paid more attention to Blake the past few weeks, and I like his play. He works well as a floor leader and sees the court well. I've seen him make numerous passes that only someone would really good court awareness would recognize, but he didn't get assists for some of them because the recipient missed the shot. But he "gets" it, like Artest doesn't. Barnes seems hot and cold, very streaky, but that's often what you get with subs. Shannon Brown seems much improved. It would help to have Ratliff back.

I still think the Lakers will be fine come playoff time, but they're not a lock to win the West. The Spurs look very, very good and are playing with confidence. They have to be considered the favorites at this point, though things could change if Ginobli and/or Parker gets hurt, which seems to happen to both of them every year but hasn't happened yet this season. I wouldn't consider the Spurs a lock for best record in the West, because they haven't had serious injuries yet, and because Popovich typically values resting his players over getting a better record. We'll see.

Outside

thanks outside

real good observations and i think spot on. I guess the main thing i cant figure too is why the lakes dont use their great team size more...that is just coaching and a lack of discipline.

I've got a somewhat nutty theory about that Jeb... Several of the players have been playing a lot of basketball over the past 3 years without much down time and I think that mental fatigue may have set in...causing them difficulty in focusing, I'm pretty sure that whatever funk they are in will fade away by playoff time but, they may dig themselves quite a hole to climb out of, on the other hand, the C's came very close to climbing out of a hole last year.

lac

well the thing is they are not just losing close games at home but just getn housed by double digits. So home court means very little right now.

Gasol took the summer off didnt he? Man he looks to be in a huge funk, just no pep in his step or boom boom in his bam bam

Maybe someone more familiar with the Lakers than I am can tell me whether there are some commonalities among the kinds of teams that have been beating them. I know that, with the Celtics, it tends to be some combination of speed, crashing the boards, or perimeter shooting.

From the relatively little I've seen, coupled with what I've read and heard, the problem may not be so much individual deficiencies as much as the fact that the various parts are adding up to much less than they need (especially on defense) in order to be an elite team.

If I were a Laker fan, I'd certainly be playing the discontinuity card and telling people to see me in April. As a Celtics fan, I'm wondering whether it would be possible to do a rewind, replaying last season's Game 7, with Artest performing as he now is.

Sam

jeb wrote:
lac

well the thing is they are not just losing close games at home but just getn housed by double digits. So home court means very little right now.

Gasol took the summer off didnt he? Man he looks to be in a huge funk, just no pep in his step or boom boom in his bam bam

Jeb,

Losing by double-digits is common for them. Of their 35 losses last season and so far this season, half (17) have been by double-digits. My guess is that Phil knows losses happen and doesn't care if they lose by 20 or 2.

Yes, Gasol took this summer off, but it's his first summer off in quite some time. He has spent a lot of time with the Spanish national team.

2009 -- European championships, gold medal, MVP
2008 -- Olympics, silver medal
2007 -- European championships, silver medal
2006 -- World championship, gold medal, MVP
And so on.

Add to that, with Bynum and Ratliff out, Gasol played heavy minutes to start the season, and also consider that he did that playing center instead of power forward, which would be more taxing. He started off very productive, averaging 23 points and 12 rebounds through the first 14 games, but tailing off since then so that he's now averaging 19 points and 9 rebounds. Like the Lakers, he should be fine when the playoffs start.

Outside

My 2c,

There's something going on with Gasol. I don't know what, but he looks slow and distracted. No ganas from him. I don't know if he's got "Celtics Disease" (not giving a shit until the playoffs) or if he's just mentally worn down from the intensity of the past few years. It must be tough being #2 on a team with Mr. Intensity himself. As Outside pointed out, he played a lot of minutes at the start of this season and they were at center, which is more physically draining. He is MUCH more effective and stays fresher at 4 than at 5.

Kobe is physically diminished. He'd never admit it, not even to himself, but the truth is he's fresh off of knee surgery and we've seen that it takes time well past normal rehab to get back to where you were before. KoME can't do it anymore and Kobe won't accept that. Maybe he's getting stronger. Maybe he'll be back by the playoffs, but I doubt it. I think Laker fans will have to wait until next season before they see if Kobe comes all the way back.

Ron Artest was always the 4th offensive option, if not 5th, on that team. His lack of offense shouldn't be such a drag on the team, then. The problem is that he's dedicated to defense, just like always, but the Lakers aren't following him. They're following their offensive leaders, Kobe and Pau, and that makes him the odd man out. One-on-one offense is common in the NBA (unfortunately, from my perspective) but defense needs the whole team to work together. The commitment to defense from the Lakers as a team isn't there.

The Laker point guard corp is the weakest in the league. Everybody knew that going in. They're just showing us we were right all along, that's all. The triangle offense requires players in the triangle to draw the defense's focus to them, and then kick it, if necessary, to the other 2 players. Fisher and Blake's place, in the triangle, is in the corners, waiting. If the defense doesn't swarm the triangle because Kobe can't overwhelm his player and Gasol is playing without energy then Fisher/Blake's shots are going to be more contested and that reduces their effectiveness.

Bynum is coming back. When the quality of his play improves, he'll make a BIG difference in the Lakers. The question with Bynum is "how long will he be back?". His knees are 22 going on 36.

bob

.

I don't quite understand what the big deal is about Ratliff being out. Wouldn't that have been pretty much expected? It's been five seasons since he played in more than 49 games and seven years since he played in more than 63 games. And it's been three years since he averaged more than 16 minutes when he was active. From what I understand, he's a good guy, and I wish him well. But, frankly, I was shocked when the Lakers got someone that gimpy to back up someone who also has a gimpy history at a much younger age.

Sam

Sam wrote:But, frankly, I was shocked when the Lakers got someone that gimpy to back up someone who also has a gimpy history at a much younger age.

Looking at his history, I have to agree. Bad decision, or they should've picked up a third center like the Celts did.

The more I think about it, the more I think the Lakers are likely to fade this year and not win it or even make it out of the West. There's a reason so few teams win back-to-back and that a three-peat is so rare. The fact that the Lakers did it in 2000-2002 and the Bulls did it twice in the '90's makes it look more achievable than it actually is. The Bird Celtics, as great as they were, didn't win back-to-back. The Magic Johnson Lakers, despite winning five titles in the '80's, won back-to-back only once and barely staggered over the finish line for the 1988 title after Riley's "guarantee." The Spurs haven't won back-to-back.

Somebody once said that winning the title is hard, but repeating is harder. The thing that pushes teams, that gives them that "extra" needed to win a title, is not winning the title. Once you've won, it's harder to summon that "extra," plus there is fatigue associated with being a champion that has to be overcome. The fatigue is physical, because you've played longer and harder than anyone else except the finals runner-up. You also have to absorb every team's best shot as champion, which is both physically and mentally draining. It's so common to see the champion struggle a bit and try to turn on the switch in the playoffs, but the switch doesn't work like it used to. Plus, champions are typically older, veteran teams, and age and injuries take a toll. It all adds up. It seems that a team that wins the title needs a year or two on the outside to recapture the fire, which is where the Celtics and Spurs are.

I see a lot of "champion fatigue" in this year's Lakers. Maybe they'll get it together by the playoffs; it's possible. But they look like a tired champion who will have difficulty summoning the "extra" that is driving the Celtics, Spurs, and other contenders.

Outside

http://www.nba.com/lakers/video/2011/01/03/010211JacksonPostgame-1512181/index.html

Phils view on it

Makes you fully appreciate how great Russell, Sam, KC, Havlicek, really were.
Remember all those wraps around the thighs, knees, calfs, etc, that those guys wore. If you could walk you could play. Right now I am watching Phil moan and groan. Imagine, Ron Artest doesn't get along with Phil, what a shock.

Started the season 15-2.

8-9 since.

I'm glad you said it, Rosalie. I've been talking too much about the old Celtics lately, so I resisted the temptation. But, whenever people annoint some team or other as the greatest of all-time, the continual winning insistence of those Celtics teams is just one of numerous factors that makes a total mockery of such claims.

Sam

Hey Sam,
I'll talk about the old Celtics...
What they did, win 8 in a row...and 10 out of 11, will never, ever be duplicated and you got to live through it, you lucky so and so, I was just a young man on the west coast, following them from a distance.

"The Los Angeles Lakers are in disarray after a 104-85 loss to the Memphis Grizzles at home. After the game, both Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson traded shots, criticizing each other for the loss and the team's recent struggles.

Phil blamed Kobe for the loss, noting that the Lakers couldn't get in rhythm despite a late surge, saying, "Kobe had to screw up the game and start energizing the team by going one-on-one." Kobe responded by blaming Jackson's strategies, saying, "I think we're looking too far down the road instead of looking just at the game that's right in front of you."

TROUBLE IN LAKERLAND

mrkleen09 wrote:"The Los Angeles Lakers are in disarray after a 104-85 loss to the Memphis Grizzles at home. After the game, both Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson traded shots, criticizing each other for the loss and the team's recent struggles.

Phil blamed Kobe for the loss, noting that the Lakers couldn't get in rhythm despite a late surge, saying, "Kobe had to screw up the game and start energizing the team by going one-on-one." Kobe responded by blaming Jackson's strategies, saying, "I think we're looking too far down the road instead of looking just at the game that's right in front of you."

TROUBLE IN LAKERLAND

I heard Kobe's demanding a trade to the Clippers.

imagine Doc throwin Kevin under the bus in such a fashion? This might get really ugly.
Something weird going on behind the scenes. Jackson will point his bejeweled fingers at everybody but the man in the mirror.

Gasol looks major bummed. Kobe going backwards. Artest absent. There is a thing that's there when a team is moving in unison as one mind. Specially on defense. It's like a form of glue...a bond. The Lakers had it in spades the year they beat the magic and they had it on d even more last year.

They dont have it this year. Not yet. Kobe is so smart and just brilliant hoopwise in his understanding of the game. I expect him to adjust as he begins to realize his body cant do what it could. But i aint sure he even knows it yet.

i agree with Outside that Steve Blake is a good find for LA, has that court vision and is generally "pass first". he'll find his way out of recent struggles. he'd be starting on many clubs.

re: Kobe. an NBA player's recovery from knee surgery is not the same as, say, mine will be when i get that next knee replacement. i'll simply be working toward strength and range of motion, but they need to look for building explosiveness and lift. that is a different world, and it does take a lot more time to get back those NBA-level skills than a more everday recovery/rehab timetable.
so i agree that Kobe most likely will not be the same this year, and would have to adjust to that if he is going to maximize what he can bring to this year's party. but he is more used to using sheer effort and force of will, and the athleticism he is accustomed to, to carry him, and he may not have a mind-set compatible with adjusting his game for the restrictions he currently seems to have. i think he'll push through it for next year, but for this one, his "mental" game probably won't allow him to accommodate and shift his approach.

Michael

I read the quote attributed to Phil and then watched video of it. Perhaps I'm crazy, but I'm not really convinced that Phil was being critical of Kobe. His choice of the term "screw up" might be considered pejorative, but I think his choice of the words "had to" was more to the point. By "had to," I think Phil meant "was forced to," which would mean that what followed was an allusion to the fact that the system got messed up because the play of the team as a whole forced Kobe to take things into his own hands.

I could be the poster boy (boy—I wish) for being touch on Phil and Kobe, neither of whom I can stand. But, in this instance, I'm not certain Phil's motive was as critical of Kobe as many are quick to assume.

I have no idea what Kobe may have said about Phil because I try to make it a point to scream and ring cowbells whenever Kobe's on the tube.

Sam

Sam

Phil's "language" was so thick and confusing it makes Joyce seem like an easy crapper read. Hell I aint sure what he said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-jacksonlakers010411

At a recent practice, league sources said, Artest loudly confronted Jackson. As he tried to fit into the defending champions a season ago and earn his way, Artest grudgingly went along with Jackson’s public floggings. This season, Artest has less tolerance for it. Essentially, Artest told Jackson that if he wants to coach him, coach him. Just stop embarrassing him in public.

and

In a lot of ways, this run is nearing an end for the Lakers. The Zen B.S. has run its course, the way every coach’s mantra does over time. Why it worked so well, for so long, had far less to do with the meditations and far more to do with the staggering array of talent under Jackson’s watch. This promises to be an excruciating season for the Lakers, and they still have so much to reassemble about themselves to be champions again.