POST GAME NETS

I see a lot of over reaction here. Trying to , get up for the nets is like trying to get up for a date with someone that does not excite you.

This is not a slump. This is just a lull, a break, the eye off s storm on the horizon.

It is time to let go of the notion that we are not a better team without perk. Kristic and green more than make up for that.

Rondo is in a funk. Rare but understandable. Rr, pp, kg, etc, all have had slumps. Keep in mind that the two hardest jobs since the trade belong to doc and rajon.

This is still a championship level team. They r still a top defensive team and now they have more offense. Relax and stop all the complaining.

Dboss

dboss wrote:I see a lot of over reaction here. Trying to , get up for the nets is like trying to get up for a date with someone that does not excite you.

This is not a slump. This is just a lull, a break, the eye off s storm on the horizon.

It is time to let go of the notion that we are not a better team without perk. Kristic and green more than make up for that.

Rondo is in a funk. Rare but understandable. Rr, pp, kg, etc, all have had slumps. Keep in mind that the two hardest jobs since the trade belong to doc and rajon.

This is still a championship level team. They r still a top defensive team and now they have more offense. Relax and stop all the complaining.

Dboss

agreed this is a championship level team, but if they can't get up for it and don't want to play, sit em, rest em

dboss wrote:I see a lot of over reaction here. Trying to , get up for the nets is like trying to get up for a date with someone that does not excite you. This is not a slump. This is just a lull, a break, the eye off s storm on the horizon.

It is time to let go of the notion that we are not a better team without perk. Kristic and green more than make up for that.

Rondo is in a funk. Rare but understandable. Rr, pp, kg, etc, all have had slumps. Keep in mind that the two hardest jobs since the trade belong to doc and rajon.

This is still a championship level team. They r still a top defensive team and now they have more offense. Relax and stop all the complaining.

Dboss

dboss,

Or even worse yet, when you get a date with that incredibly gorgeous girl and she turns out to be completely boring. I remember one in particular; guys were literally afraid to talk with her for fear of rejection, but I got her to go out on a date. Took her to a concert, Boston actually, and... anyway...

Where was I going with that?

Oh, yeah, The Celtics. You're right. Well said.

Regards

NYC,

You should have consulted Sam before that date, I'll bet he would have told you to take her to a drive-in movie.

Bob,

Why do you think I currently live in a town with one of the three remaining drive-in theaters in Massachusetts?

Sam

I didn't see the game, so I cannot comment directly but it seems to me that this loss has significance ONLY in that it puts us in a tie with Chicago. The loss itself, to the Nets, is meaningless.

They are not a playoff team. If they were a playoff team (which would probably require a mass murder of half the league) we would still obliterate them in a 7-game series. Since beating teams in 7-game series is all that matters, it is the end-all-be-all, losing to a team we will not face in a 7-game series doesn't matter.

Cursing the heavens over something meaningless is something one expects from a Greek Tragedy, and this is not one.

We are tied with Tom T's Bulls, and that matters, since they have a very good home winning record this year. We need to get healthy (and it'd be nice if they had an injury or two) and finish up strong so we can maybe keep the #1 spot. Losing this game put us into that tie, but to extrapolate forward from that game through the rest of the playoffs is to say that we have learned nothing from the Celtics' run last year.


bob

.

bob

The Bulls have had injuries all year, they won last night without Boozer and Noah, that is a scary young emerging team. They gave the Cavs all they could handle last year in playoffs, every game was close. If we go against them in playoffs will be epic struggle......please comeback strong Shaq and JON, knock on wood.

cow

Shaq and Jermaine against the athleticism of Noah? I see them as secondary (at best) in that scenario. A series against the Bulls would be very much about controlling the pace. I don't see those two as being instrumental in that struggle. They'd be the controllees rather than the controllers. It's popular to say that their fouls could be useful, but a succession of fouls usually results in some kind of disadvantage.

Sam

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob

The Bulls have had injuries all year, they won last night without Boozer and Noah, that is a scary young emerging team. They gave the Cavs all they could handle last year in playoffs, every game was close. If we go against them in playoffs will be epic struggle......please comeback strong Shaq and JON, knock on wood.

cow

cow,

They beat the extremely incapable Washington Wizards. We've been beating teams better than that all season, usually without 2 of our top 3 centers and without a backup guard, minimum.

Yes, they are scary, but our performance against the Nets doesn't make them scarier. That was the point I was trying to make. Projecting our performance against the Nets forward to a 7-game playoff series against the Bulls is not sensible, to me.

If we get healthy, and our newbies get another 10 games under their belts learning our system and each other, it won't matter if we have the #1 seed or not because we will be tearing everybody up anyway.

bob

.

cowens/oldschool,

They can be scary all they want come next year. They will probably have to carry our "Beat Down Miami" Torch over the next couple of seasons. We'll take it this year. I'm still surprised DA didn't work out a deal with T2 to replace Doc. He's definitely coach of the year.

sam wrote:Shaq and Jermaine against the athleticism of Noah? I see them as secondary (at best) in that scenario. A series against the Bulls would be very much about controlling the pace. I don't see those two as being instrumental in that struggle. They'd be the controllees rather than the controllers. It's popular to say that their fouls could be useful, but a succession of fouls usually results in some kind of disadvantage.

Sam

Shaq actually did well vs Noah in last years playoffs,if we can get the same JON that we saw vs Spurs, I'm hopeful they can give us enough hardnosed inside play. If Noah had a jumper like KG then we'd be in BIG trouble.

The biggest impact Shaq can have on the Bulls' big men is that they don't have the bulk to guard him (I know, who does, but Noah is on the light side), and they pick up fouls on the defensive end.

As for dismissing the Bulls' injuries, especially in comparison to the Celtics, I don't think that's fair. First, the Celtics have a roster with some players guaranteed to miss a significant number of games; if you don't think so, then you need to look at the number of games played in recent seasons by Shaq, JON, Daniels, and West. So if you discount the expected injuries for that group, then the injuries the Celtics have experienced are what I'd consider normal for an NBA season. And second, the Bulls have been hit significantly by injuries, probably more than most teams considering that they've lost two starters (Boozer and Noah) for significant chunks of the season.

Outside

dboss wrote:I see a lot of over reaction here. Trying to , get up for the nets is like trying to get up for a date with someone that does not excite you.

This is not a slump. This is just a lull, a break, the eye off s storm on the horizon.

It is time to let go of the notion that we are not a better team without perk. Kristic and green more than make up for that.

Rondo is in a funk. Rare but understandable. Rr, pp, kg, etc, all have had slumps. Keep in mind that the two hardest jobs since the trade belong to doc and rajon.

This is still a championship level team. They r still a top defensive team and now they have more offense. Relax and stop all the complaining.

Dboss

Well I guess we will find out in a few months if this is a championship team, eh? I don't think they are as good as the Bulls (who are playing hungrier) or the Lakers right now. The Heat will also give them a run for their money, and if they play the Knicks they will also struggle.
If we fail to secure the #1 seed it will be very tough to win a ring, probably beyond what this team is capable of. And we can look back to late season losses to the Clipper, the Sixers, and the Nets as the reason we didn't get the top seed, and possibly why we didn't make it out of the East.

A quick general response to various points above.

I think the whole point of the trade and various player moves was so we would be built to compete with the Bulls and Heat. Shaq and JO aren't part of that equation and don't really seem to be needed against either team. To beat both of those teams we need a perimiter game and quickness along with some rebounding, especially on the offensive boards (unless we're planning on nailing all of our shots).

There have been repeated comments by a few posters whom I consider to have very high basketball IQs that we need the 1 seed to get to the finals. We could debate it all day but using just one recent example; didn't our path through the playoffs last year prove anything?

Pumpsie, who the hell cares about "right now?" "Right now" isn't the playoffs. Regardless of who is available by playoff time, one sure thing is that the Boston Celtics will be a different team from what they are "right now."

We can all see what "right now" is like. What differentiates Celtics fans at this juncture is where they stand on the scale from dourness to enthusiasm, as they follow the team through what should be a very eventful, interesting, and hopefully productive month leading to the playoffs. Having been a Celtics fan since 1950, I have found that, far far more often than not, they have rewarded me for straining to go beyond the "enthusiastic" end of the scale.

In other words, it's last year all over again, but with a much better Celtics team likely to confront better opposition. Last year's team didn't need the #1 seed, and neither should this year's team. Mostly (if not totally) without Perk, West, Green, Krstic, and Sasha, and partly without Shaq, they have played .500 ball against the top six contenders on the contenders' home courts this season. With a far more complete team now, they shouldn't have to succeed even that well on enemy courts in order to prevail.

All they have to do is to round into cohesive shape. And that's what we should all be focusing on. Not visions for future outcomes based on present situations.

Sam

I have to agree with Sam and many others about the Celtics play recently.
Last season Boston won 3 of their final 10 games and the Lakers won 4 of their final 11 games.
What matters are the games in April and later.
The new players will be much more cohesive 3-4 weeks from now and most likely Boston will have at least 1 key player return to the regular rotation.
I am not expecting Shaq or JON to contribute much of anythng in the playoffs but Delonte should make a significant impact to the team.
Throughout the season many wrote off LA for their apathetic play but what do those losses mean now other then being 2nd in the West? Is anyone bringing up the stat from earlier in the year that a Phil Jackson championship winning team never lost 4 games in a row now?
Of course we talk about individual games throughout the season but it is very shortsighted to think that the way Boston has played recently will be the way they will play in the playoffs.

sam wrote:Pumpsie, who the hell cares about "right now?" "Right now" isn't the playoffs. Regardless of who is available by playoff time, one sure thing is that the Boston Celtics will be a different team from what they are "right now."

We can all see what "right now" is like. What differentiates Celtics fans at this juncture is where they stand on the scale from dourness to enthusiasm, as they follow the team through what should be a very eventful, interesting, and hopefully productive month leading to the playoffs. Having been a Celtics fan since 1950, I have found that, far far more often than not, they have rewarded me for straining to go beyond the "enthusiastic" end of the scale.

In other words, it's last year all over again, but with a much better Celtics team likely to confront better opposition. Last year's team didn't need the #1 seed, and neither should this year's team. Mostly (if not totally) without Perk, West, Green, Krstic, and Sasha, and partly without Shaq, they have played .500 ball against the top six contenders on the contenders' home courts this season. With a far more complete team now, they shouldn't have to succeed even that well on enemy courts in order to prevail.

All they have to do is to round into cohesive shape. And that's what we should all be focusing on. Not visions for future outcomes based on present situations.

Sam

YOU should care about "RIGHT NOW" because that is all there is Sam. You ought to know that. The past is gone and the future is unpredictable, so NOW is all there is. Thats not just true for basketball and other sports, its generally true in life.
Last year was, IMO, an anomaly. The Celtics played like crap for over half of the season then somehow managed to come together and nearly win a ring. The observant and impartial fan can see that RIGHT NOW this is not a very good team. Good teams do not lose to the Clippers at home, the Nets, and the Sixers when the top seed is on the line. You do not see the Bulls playing like this. RIGHT NOW then evidence is that the Bulls are the younger and hungrier team. Unlike us, they seem to be coming together at just the right time.
Of course I realize that things can change, and if they do, then the RIGHT NOW of it will also change. And I will be right there watching and cheering the team on in the playoffs, just like you. No, I don't wave pompoms like some here. Each of us supports the team in a different manner; each of us would be cheering for the Celtics at the Garden if we were there together.
I certainly hope that I am wrong about this team. I hope that the lockdown defense of years past will somehow reappear. There is no evidence that they can play that way any more, however, and me wishing it were so (or even ALL OF US wishing it were so) does not change the reality of the RIGHT NOW. And RIGHT NOW is all any of us have. I think thats good advice for sports fans and its good advice outside of sports as well. Its the basis of being grounded in reality.

Pumpsie Green wrote:

sam wrote:Pumpsie, who the hell cares about "right now?" "Right now" isn't the playoffs. Regardless of who is available by playoff time, one sure thing is that the Boston Celtics will be a different team from what they are "right now."

We can all see what "right now" is like. What differentiates Celtics fans at this juncture is where they stand on the scale from dourness to enthusiasm, as they follow the team through what should be a very eventful, interesting, and hopefully productive month leading to the playoffs. Having been a Celtics fan since 1950, I have found that, far far more often than not, they have rewarded me for straining to go beyond the "enthusiastic" end of the scale.

In other words, it's last year all over again, but with a much better Celtics team likely to confront better opposition. Last year's team didn't need the #1 seed, and neither should this year's team. Mostly (if not totally) without Perk, West, Green, Krstic, and Sasha, and partly without Shaq, they have played .500 ball against the top six contenders on the contenders' home courts this season. With a far more complete team now, they shouldn't have to succeed even that well on enemy courts in order to prevail.

All they have to do is to round into cohesive shape. And that's what we should all be focusing on. Not visions for future outcomes based on present situations.

Sam

YOU should care about "RIGHT NOW" because that is all there is Sam. You ought to know that. The past is gone and the future is unpredictable, so NOW is all there is. Thats not just true for basketball and other sports, its generally true in life.
Last year was, IMO, an anomaly. The Celtics played like crap for over half of the season then somehow managed to come together and nearly win a ring. The observant and impartial fan can see that RIGHT NOW this is not a very good team. Good teams do not lose to the Clippers at home, the Nets, and the Sixers when the top seed is on the line. You do not see the Bulls playing like this. RIGHT NOW then evidence is that the Bulls are the younger and hungrier team. Unlike us, they seem to be coming together at just the right time.
Of course I realize that things can change, and if they do, then the RIGHT NOW of it will also change. And I will be right there watching and cheering the team on in the playoffs, just like you. No, I don't wave pompoms like some here. Each of us supports the team in a different manner; each of us would be cheering for the Celtics at the Garden if we were there together.
I certainly hope that I am wrong about this team. I hope that the lockdown defense of years past will somehow reappear. There is no evidence that they can play that way any more, however, and me wishing it were so (or even ALL OF US wishing it were so) does not change the reality of the RIGHT NOW. And RIGHT NOW is all any of us have. I think thats good advice for sports fans and its good advice outside of sports as well. Its the basis of being grounded in reality.

Right now the C's look like crap.... and I think that we can reasonably expect it to continue unless something very dramatic happens... particularly Rondo getting his act together. The beginning of the playoffs hardly constititues a needed dramatic happening.

Last year is last year and right now is right now.

Since right now is all I have, I sincerely hope that last year was indeed a fluke because there should be no short cuts to excellence or to championships. That's not the way the world works.

Particularly worrisome is the notion that our best bet for #18 is to believe in... or to come to rely on... flukes.

gc

GC, another way to look at it is that what we are witnessing RIGHT NOW is reality, and how the team is playing is not of championship character. To say that they are a championship caliber team is in the realm of WISHING for things to be different in the future. I wish for that too, but its not what I have been seeing in this team over the past several weeks.

Pumpsie Green wrote:GC, another way to look at it is that what we are witnessing RIGHT NOW is reality, and how the team is playing is not of championship character. To say that they are a championship caliber team is in the realm of WISHING for things to be different in the future. I wish for that too, but its not what I have been seeing in this team over the past several weeks.

Considering how badly we have been playing, wishing seems to be most of what we have left. That and superstition maybe.

From a social psychology perspective, the best single predictor of future behavior is recent past behavior. Those implications might seem pretty grim for #18... but that is what scientists find.

GC

gacracker wrote:

Pumpsie Green wrote:GC, another way to look at it is that what we are witnessing RIGHT NOW is reality, and how the team is playing is not of championship character. To say that they are a championship caliber team is in the realm of WISHING for things to be different in the future. I wish for that too, but its not what I have been seeing in this team over the past several weeks.

Considering how badly we have been playing, wishing seems to be most of what we have left. That and superstition maybe.

From a social psychology perspective, the best single predictor of future behavior is recent past behavior. Those implications might seem pretty grim for #18... but that is what scientists find.

GC

...which is thankfully why most scientists never made the cut or even went out for the team.

What did you guys do when a team you were playing on got behind or lost one; quit?

Scientists? Really? Now we're talking about scientists, psychology and the value of "right now?".

Come on guys; I've read your stuff before and I know you're better than that.

We're talking about a couple of losses here. Lighten up. Have a Coke and a smile.

NYCelt wrote:

gacracker wrote:

Pumpsie Green wrote:GC, another way to look at it is that what we are witnessing RIGHT NOW is reality, and how the team is playing is not of championship character. To say that they are a championship caliber team is in the realm of WISHING for things to be different in the future. I wish for that too, but its not what I have been seeing in this team over the past several weeks.

Considering how badly we have been playing, wishing seems to be most of what we have left. That and superstition maybe.

From a social psychology perspective, the best single predictor of future behavior is recent past behavior. Those implications might seem pretty grim for #18... but that is what scientists find.

GC

...which is thankfully why most scientists never made the cut or even went out for the team.

What did you guys do when a team you were playing on got behind or lost one; quit?

Scientists? Really? Now we're talking about scientists, psychology and the value of "right now?".

Come on guys; I've read your stuff before and I know you're better than that.

We're talking about a couple of losses here. Lighten up. Have a Coke and a smile.

Well actually I've tried prayer when the C's were doing poorly believing that God smiled on me and on the C's too.

I have tended to fall back on superstition, I'm ashamed to say. Not sure it works but it doesn't cost me anything either.

GC

GC,

No-one can blame you for trying!

Sign of a good fan.

Regards

And if the Celtics win every game from now on, that will be the "new now", and all this "old now" will be forgotten.

Unless someone chooses to resurrect it and critique this short-term definition and subjective value of "now"...

bob

.

Pumpsie, that's self-contradictory nonsense. If you contend that all there is is now, then why do you try to project what is "now" into the future by suggesting what the Celtics will or won't be able to accomplish against other teams in the future based on what is happening now? Don't deny it. In the post I replied to, you used the verb "will" three times to describe how the Celtics would fare in the future. "Will" means the future, not "now." The reason the "now" is largely irrelevant, although it is ever-present and convenient to discuss, is that the Celtics are specifically in the midst of a rather formidable evolution. The Celtics now are not what the Celtics will be at playoff time. Anyone with a smattering of basketball knowledge would know that.

As for the Celtics' resurgence last year, your glibly and erroneous dismissal of that feat with the words "somehow managed to come together" displays an unfortunate lack of appreciation of detail for how the dynamics of professional basketball work.

I know that, if things change, you'll be right there. There are some fans who choose to be dour in full knowledge that they can scamper back on the bandwagon when circumstances change. Many of us prefer to cast our lot in unyielding support of our team, while being entirely realistic in analyzing the present.

Personally, I'm not predicting anything for the future, as I'm a well-known opponent of predictions. Making a prediction for the Celtics' future would be as ill-advised as trying to draw inferences for the future based on the current state of major evolution.

And I found your pom pom remark to be snide and frankly beneath you.

Sam