Those big bad paid off refs...

+11
KyleCleric
Outside
tjmakz
mrkleen09
beat
112288
gyso
sinus007
cowens/oldschool
MDCelticsFan
NYCelt
15 posters

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by NYCelt Thu May 31, 2012 3:53 pm

I thought this one deserved it's own thread.

Has the officiating been inconsistent to poor? Yes. On both sides.

The calls have been bad, but I don't think anyone is going to turn up a grand case for collusion.

Before anyone starts to feel like we're getting picked on, look at some basics; start by looking at us versus Miami. There is a fundamental reason for the disparity we're seeing in calls. It might help if you take a look at something like GameChannel to follow what's happening here...

Celtics; Heavy reliance on outside shooting. Even our center, KG, generates a heavy dose of his shots from 15 feet out or so.

Heat; Consistently drive to the basket. James, Wade and Chalmers are slash and drive types for example.

When you're driving to the basket, guess what happens? That's right, you draw more fouls. Look at Paul Pierce for example. He's more adept at getting to the line than anyone else we have. For the most part, those trips to the stripe haven't come from shots out at the elbow or top of the key, they're from right around the no charge zone.

That's the way the game works; get to the rim often, get to the stripe often.

Yes, it's always been a factor that marquis players (not Daniels; I'll save you one there MD) seem to get some preferential treatment. Yes, the officials have blown more than their share already in this series. But you have to consider that the way we play away from the hoop has it's effect not only on our offensive rebounding, but on the calls we (don't) get.

Watch the next game, make the comparison, and you'll see this basic fact of hoop life.

I thought it worth pointing out.
NYCelt
NYCelt

Posts : 10794
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by MDCelticsFan Thu May 31, 2012 7:32 pm

NYCelt:

Your reasoning about their drives to the hoop have some validity. However, there is no plausible explanation for how Wade & James maul our players: KG, Allen & Rondo specifically like a Scicilian hit man imported by Tony Soprano to kill the head of the New York Family, or Brock Lessner in a no holds barred UFC cage match.

MD!

MDCelticsFan

Posts : 1314
Join date : 2009-11-03
Age : 72

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by cowens/oldschool Thu May 31, 2012 8:04 pm

nycelt your basic premise is fundamentally correct, but did you notice how hard Haslem is allowed to bang into KG's back, then Rondo outquicks Lebron to a loose ball, Lebron lands on top, why is that a foul on Rondo? how does the baseline ref not see Wade hit Rondo in the face in a crucial tied game stretch in OT? on the foul on Pierce before his final foul, he just jumps and challenges a jumphook, why was that a foul? they are into our bodies the whole game, seems anytime we challenge a shot, we get a foul called on us.....theres alot more fans as or more outraged than me.

cowens/oldschool

Posts : 27707
Join date : 2009-10-18

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by NYCelt Thu May 31, 2012 9:20 pm

MD and Cow,

I'm not saying we weren't on the wrong end of any bad calls. There were plenty and they were against both teams. The feeling that officiating in general has been below NBA playoff standards appears to be well founded.

What I am saying is that the different styles of play will lead to a wide discrepancy of calls in favor of the Heat. I've seen several reports written on various sites claiming that there are too many calls on the Celts and too few on the Heat. I've also seen that written on a few boards including ours. Some claim that there is intent to tilt the calls and therefore the game against us. Counting who got to the line more just doesn't tell the whole story. I think any suggestion that the refs cost us the game is going a little too far; that's just not so.

I'm simply saying that based on how each team plays, the number of calls will normally be in favor of the Heat. That doesn't show any malicious attempt by the officials.

I'm saying we lost because we lost. I'm more concerned that we lost because only one Celtic scored in OT than I am that a call might have thrown it.

As far as MD's comparison of Wade and James to hit men hired by the mob; he's pretty much on target there.

Regards
NYCelt
NYCelt

Posts : 10794
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by sinus007 Thu May 31, 2012 9:43 pm

NYCelt,
I agree with your logic in theory. But let's look what happens in reality. If you look through replay of all those calls and no-calls and count those that clearly wrong I bet the count of mistakes in Mia favor will be 2-3 times more than in Celtics favor.
For example, take those instances that were shown on ESPN and commented by Brin and JVG, big Celtics "lovers" mind you. The ones that I remember (please correct me if I missed any) are: 1 non-call on KG when Chalmers scored but it should've been and1 vs. foul on RR diving for the ball with LJ, foul on KG when DW pushed/kicked him with his foot and no-call on DW hitting RR in the face. Here we have 3-to-1 ratio in favor of Mia.
And all this we have only 48 hours after those Ts that even non-Celtics fans would bogus. And should I mention the timing of all those calls/non-calls, e.g. no-call on DW hitting RR?

Or, maybe you trying to play devil's advocate .....

AK
sinus007
sinus007

Posts : 2652
Join date : 2009-10-22

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by gyso Thu May 31, 2012 10:32 pm

In the "for what it is worth" department,

Here is a link to the shot charts for game 2:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=320530014

Note: some of these "shots" may have been made when a foul was committed. That is one of the comments of a follower on the Bill Simmons twitter account where I found the link to this shot chart.

Bill Simmons also stated that Miami took 11 more three-point attempts in the game.

gyso

PS: I agree that for the most part, the Celtics are a jump shooting team.


Last edited by gyso on Thu May 31, 2012 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : poor typing and added PS)

_________________
Those big bad paid off refs... Logo_f11
gyso
gyso

Posts : 23027
Join date : 2009-10-13

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by 112288 Thu May 31, 2012 10:44 pm

NATIONAL VIEW: OFFICIATING IS CENTER OF DEBATE AGAIN IN CELTICS LOSS 05.31.12 at 4:18 pm ET
By Stephen Hewitt
WEEI

One game after the officiating was a hot topic of debate for five questionable technical fouls called on the Celtics in their Game 1 loss to the Heat in the Eastern Conference finals, Wednesday’s Game 2 was filled with controversy caused by missed calls and free throw disparities.

The biggest missed call in question occurred in overtime. With under two minutes remaining and the game tied at 105-105, Rajon Rondo drove the lane and went up for a layup, but was knocked in the head by Dwyane Wade.

The referees didn’t blow their whistles and missed the call as Rondo sat on the floor holding his head. The Heat quickly took advantage, converted a dunk on the other end and never looked back as momentum completely swung to their side and they secured the win.

“I don’t know how you miss that one,” ESPN basketball analyst Tim Legler said. ”There has to be an official on the baseline. You have a guy driving to the rim, you know that you’re anticipating contact as an official. [When] you get raked across the eye on a layup, it has to be called. It’s that simple. They missed it.”

CBSSports.com NBA blogger Royce Young also chimed in on the play. While he agreed that it was a clear missed call, he was also defensive of the officials.

“Referees miss calls. It happens,” Young wrote. “Nobody wants to hear that and it certainly doesn’t give Boston two points, but in the flow of an NBA game, something that moves really, really fast, sometimes an official doesn’t get it right.

“It’s not like they don’t want to. It’s not like they were thinking, ‘Eh, it’s Wade. Let it go.’ They want to do their job perfectly. It just doesn’t happen.”

Even Brian Windhorst, the Heat beat writer for ESPN.com, was critical of the missed call. He took to Twitter moments after Wade converted on a 3-point play to give the Heat a 5-point lead.

“Great play by Wade but I’m feeling a little sick about that missed foul on Rondo. And I’m a staunch defender of officials as followers know,” Windhorst tweeted.


The criticism of NBA referees also crossed leagues to the NFL, as Falcons receiver Roddy White tweeted his displeasure: ”That’s nba officiating for you right there rondo gets fouled and no call but touch lebron and it’s a foul.”

The missed call on Rondo’s drive wasn’t the only call in question in the overtime period. With about one minute left and the Heat up by two, Wade drove the lane and converted on an “and-1″ as Kevin Garnett pushed his arm. But replays showed that Wade kicked his foot out at the same time that Garnett hit his arm.

The South Florida Sun Sentinel’s Ira Winderman pointed out that the calls that were made and missed is just how the NBA is.

“Plenty of other calls were made and missed. That’s the NBA and the human element of officiating,” Winderman wrote. “If one play is so crucial, then make a stop on the other end.

“Sure the Heat got a heck of a break on the non-call on Wade’s foul, but the Heat never stopped attacking and the aggressor tends to get the benefit.”

Another point of discussion was the free throw disparity between the two teams. For the game, the Heat took 47 free throws, which was 18 more than the Celtics. LeBron James had 24 himself, and combined with Wade, the duo took 35 free throws, six more than the Celtics.

Sports Illustrated’s Chris Mannix appeared on “The Joe Rose Show” on 560 WQAM in Miami on Thursday morning and ripped the officials for that very reason.

“There should not be that big of a gap in free throw shooting,” Mannix said. “We’re not talking about an exclusively jump shooting team in Boston. They’ve got a guy in [Paul] Pierce that, for years, routinely ranks among the league leaders in free throw attempts.

“There just should simply not be that big of a gulf in free throw attempts, especially when you look at the obvious calls that the officials were missing. When you look at that Dwyane Wade slap across the face of Rondo when it was 105 all, that changed the course of the game. … I just think there has been something wrong with the officiating, at least in this Game 2. I just think the way Boston plays, there should not be that big of a gap in free throw attempts.”

112288
112288
112288

Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by 112288 Thu May 31, 2012 11:22 pm

NY,

I hear you.....but...........no. Prior to this series, James had 3, count them....3 fouls called against him verses other teams fouls on him of 26. Not all teams just shot from the outside especially players he is covering.

In addition, Pierce and Rondo drive to the paint for the majority of their scoring. Look at the one sided foul stat. Never on Miami!

The article I posted here confirms something is going on. It is called MUCHO PESO'S that are at stake! Stern is trying to drive ratings by getting Durant verses James series...........nothing different then Stern sending his crooked ref's to bolster the Lakers chances in past years.

Same scam...different year........this time I hope people take notice and push for an investigation...........it smells like the Fresh Kills land fill on Staten Island with the breeze blowing in from the ocean in the direction of the NBA offices on 5th Ave.

112288
112288
112288

Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by cowens/oldschool Thu May 31, 2012 11:35 pm

Thanks 112288

I'm seething, can't tell you how much I hate that little shithead D Wade, will somebody please toss him, send him flying like he did to Collison....please. How could Ray get a T in game 1 when he runs opposite direction, not bothering ref, and Wade kicks KG in the groin and gets away with it. By far worst 2 games ever seen officiated, I'm sick of even thinking about this....Stern has totally ruined the game.

Refs have got to be held accountable, just like players, if they can't do their job, get rid of them, how come they can't get games off with no pay? everybody that works for somebody has to execute their job, why are they beyond reproach. Why can't that blown call on Rondo not deserve a suspension for taking away outcome of game by incompetant call.....every single person that saw that game knows how fucked up that non call was on Rondo....its like baseball. If its a homer or not, you can tell, its white and black, you can tell....that is so obvious, so black and white, how can someone paid to ref a game be so incompetant? that call can't be missed, its like getting a wrong HR call in a baseball playoff game in extra innings.....can't happen. We should have had an oppurtunity to get Rondo to the line, even Heat fans/writers know the game was totally given to Heat.

cow

cowens/oldschool

Posts : 27707
Join date : 2009-10-18

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by 112288 Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:10 am

I say for playoffs only, you get 1 video review a quarter just like in football or tennis matches at the US Open. If you win you keep your review, you lose, you lose a time out.

A far as the ref's, I say they should warrant a suspension or fine for such a blatant missed call! I say we (Press) should keep the pressure on Stern so as to make the little bastard sweat!

112288
112288
112288

Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by beat Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:48 am

Not sure what the answer is or even if there is one. Tough game to officiate. But much like the major league ump that would not allow the yankee catcher to throw a ball back to the pitcher when a new ball was being put in play, the game IS NOT about them. refs/umps. It's about the players. Rules are made and they are to be called as the rules dictate not whom is involved, star or role bench player. However for years this has not been the case.

The other eve I clearly saw a player Miami step on the baseline when in possession of the ball. (while getting a defensive rebound) we played it back and his foot was clearly on the line. NO CALL. Thing I also noticed that the baseline ref was so close to this play he could not look down at the players feet. A few games ago an Indiana player was called for a sideline violation when chasing a loose ball, he retrieved the ball and did NOT touch the sideline yet the ref who had a great view pointed and said he was on the line. Replays again showed he was close but did not touch the sideline. Perhaps the league needs spotters like in tennis????

How many times to we see replays to tell if a shot was a 2 or a 3? Happens alot. If they can do it for that aspect of the game why can't they do it for others?


As for the contact on the court and when is a foul called and when it is not. Thats a tough one. Being consistant on these calls is all any fan could want. A foul is a foul and needs to be called against whomever, whenever.

So what is the recourse when a ref makes a terrible (non)call like the hit to Rondo's face? Answer is NONE.

League has no problem suspending players after they accumulate a number of T's.......... why not suspend refs after a certain number of blaintantly missed calls. And this should apply for the entire crew not just the one ref nearby, after all they are to work as a unit much like the players.

A few of these suspensions might bring a little intergrity back to the league and also put the refs on notice to do their job, enforce the rules, apply them equally regardless if it is a 10 time all star or a rookie. Personally some local high school officials are better than some of these.

beat


beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 71

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by NYCelt Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:31 am

Let me try and put this another way...

The fans, and perhaps the team to a lesser extent, are too concerned with a few bad calls. That's not what cost us the game.

There were bad calls. Style of play, star players wearing teflon, and home court for Miami all played a role.

I went looking for an example of how bad calls should be treated in my opinion, and found it, of all places, in an opinion column by David Neal in The Miami Herald. This is the last paragraph in his sports op-ed about what his home team should expect and how they should react tonight in Boston;

So, the Heat should enter Friday with the goal of putting bullets into Boston before the Celtics can twitch twice. Feed off the angry energy of a Boston crowd seeing its own latest Big 3 era end with only one title, silence it early and keep firing away. Acknowledge the funky calls that go against you on the road with a brief look without fussing, then move on with the killing.

Or, as Tuco says in The Good, The Bad and the Ugly, “When you have to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk.”


I think he's got it right. I think this is how any NBA team, and specifically The Celtics need to look at the situation right now.

My opinion, and my concern, is that the Celtics need to get past the distraction of a few bad calls. I think the fans are getting way too carried away with it; it's done, move on. We fans can get away with obsessing about slights, perceived or real. The team cannot and I hope they don't.

My opinion is that officiating has been bad, but griping about it serves no real purpose. It's bad in both directions. My opinion is that, unfortunately, Celtics fans have taken the 'officials against us attitude' to the extreme of a silly art form.

It's long been my belief that the art of getting to the line has increasingly made the NBA start to look like soccer. I think the Celtics need to make sure they don't carry that mentality into tonight's game. If they do, and the calls don't go their way, it's nothing more than an unneeded distraction.

We need better position for rebounds, we need to pursue loose balls, we need to not rush the clock and settle for often futile 3-point attempts too early, we need more balanced scoring.

If we do those things, the bad calls will barely be noticed.

If fans and writers want to obsess, and keep citing a few tired examples over and over, that's OK.

My hope is that the team has left it behind.

We've done a great job this year with a bunch of wounded warriors, but you go into the game with what you have.

To paraphrase the line above from "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly", the Celtics need to shoot and not talk.

It's put up or shut up time in Boston.

And that's as far as I go.
(Thanks George)


Last edited by NYCelt on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total
NYCelt
NYCelt

Posts : 10794
Join date : 2009-10-12

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by beat Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:38 am

NYCelt

if only it was that simple.

beat
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 71

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by 112288 Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:52 am

NY,

Sorry I know what you are trying to say but it just does not jell. Yes get over a few bad calls.........I agree, however when you have a disproportion of bad calls against you is where your premise falls apart!

I have been to all games of 5 Stanly Cup Finals, 2 NBA Finals, and 4 World Series and I have seen my share of missed calls............it happens.............but there has never existed such an out in out bias against not only us, but other teams playing Miami........especially James and that ass hole thug Wade. Even at its hay day....the Lakers never got such favorable calls as this team of jerks!!!!!!!!!

So I say keep up the pressure on the NBA.......this clearly cheapens the product and brings it to a level of the Black Sox scandal of 1919!!!!


112288

That is why at least I cannot let this go.....and neither should Danny Ainge and the Celtic organization!
112288
112288

Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by mrkleen09 Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:56 am

Kenny Mauer, who was a ref on Wednesday is a CONVICTED FELON. Do people remember that, he went to federal prison for tax evasion for 5 months...and Stern took him back.

Hue Hollins told ESPN that when the FBI was asking him about the betting scandal, they questioned me about Dick Bavetta more than they did about Tim Donaghy....Bavetta is still an active ref.

Here is a quote from Donaghy's father:

"If there is nothing wrong with the NBA, then how can an individual [Tim] successfully pick seven of 10 games a week, week after week?" asked Gerry Donaghy, dressed in dark slacks and a white knit golf shirt. "There's something to it. Other gamblers jumped on the bandwagon. That is why Battista jumped on the bandwagon. So what does that tell you about the NBA?

As bad as what Donaghy did, did you read that? He bet on multiple games a week that he was not working - and based on his inside "information" he won those bets 70% of the time. But that is just luck right

On the same night as the 47 to 29 FT difference - did you happen to catch the fact that with a 13% chance - the Hornets got the 1st pick? Guess who owns the Hornets? THE NBA.

Many of the senior execs from other teams - said BEFORE THE LOTTERY...that they knew the Hornets would win. Then they did.

People who deny the shady nature of the NBA under David Stern have their head buried in the sand. Refs may not "fix" games - but there is absolute evidence that they are getting directives from the NBA to take care of superstars - and watch team A vs. team B.

Such a shame to know that the game we all love is being manipulated by a crocked dictator.
mrkleen09
mrkleen09

Posts : 3873
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 55

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by 112288 Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:12 am

MrK.

Never knew that. Now I am more upset. A convicted felon working a professional game! Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that's Balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

112288

112288
112288

Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by beat Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:20 am

Here is a clip from an older game done by Mauer
Listen to Tommy H rip the officials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjU3nvru9wA

At the end the line is said

Heinshon makes Johnny Most sound like Edward R. Murrow

beat
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 71

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by mrkleen09 Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:21 am

112288

The only explanation for people like Joey Crawford (also a convicted felon), Kenny Mauer and Dick Bavetta (add so many others to the list) - continuing to work for the NBA is that they know too much...and Stern needs to keep his co-conspirators close.

The reason they went to jail was because of tax evasion, based on stealing money from the NBA. They took their first class tickets and game tickets - sold them and pocked the cash and never claimed it.

Think about that for a second. If ANY ONE OF US embezzled money from our boss - do you think he would keep us on at our current job?

Even if you were a street sweeper, you would be OUT ON YOUR ASS.

What is worse is these guys have a job that is predicated on their ability to be fair, impartial and ethical. This is like hiring the fox to look after the hen house.

mrkleen09
mrkleen09

Posts : 3873
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 55

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by 112288 Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:29 am

MrK.

WOW........You are 100% spot on!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish we can send this info to the Globe or Herald and let them run with it. Perhaps a letter to the sports editors. I would gladly sign and send a copy! Perhaps we can gather a petition among us and we enclose all our letters in one envelope with signature request.

I bet 99.9% of the people who follow basketball do not know these facts!!!!!! If they did there would be a up roar!!!

112288
112288
112288

Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by mrkleen09 Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:32 am

At this point, the Celtics dont just have to stay close to the Heat - they have to WHIP THEM in order to be assured they have a fighting chance.

Give the refs a 2 point game with a minute to play - and WATCH OUT....they will do their best to take care of Lebron and Wade.
mrkleen09
mrkleen09

Posts : 3873
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 55

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by tjmakz Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:26 am

mrkleen09 wrote:112288

The only explanation for people like Joey Crawford (also a convicted felon), Kenny Mauer and Dick Bavetta (add so many others to the list) - continuing to work for the NBA is that they know too much...and Stern needs to keep his co-conspirators close.

The reason they went to jail was because of tax evasion, based on stealing money from the NBA. They took their first class tickets and game tickets - sold them and pocked the cash and never claimed it.

Think about that for a second. If ANY ONE OF US embezzled money from our boss - do you think he would keep us on at our current job?

Even if you were a street sweeper, you would be OUT ON YOUR ASS.

What is worse is these guys have a job that is predicated on their ability to be fair, impartial and ethical. This is like hiring the fox to look after the hen house.



The Airline Ticket Exchange that was going on among referees was from the 1990's.
The NBA knew what the referees were doing and didn't have a problem with downgrading their airline seats.
The problem was some didn't report this as income with the IRS.

"Referees have the right to fly first class, and if they want to sell their seats for money and fly coach, they can do that," said Russell T. Granick, deputy NBA commissioner and the league's chief operating officer. ''And we file appropriate tax forms to report whatever's been done."

Why didn't anyone bring up Kenny Mauer's past before he refereed game 2.
This is big time Monday morning quarterbacking against the referees.

The referees were poor in the first two games of this series as they often are.
This is no different from the regular season.
Virtually every regular season game Tommy Heinsohn will spend a significant amount of time railing against the referees about calls and non-calls.

There is no excuse for missing the call when Rondo was hit in the head.

If anyone thinks that Wade's leg touched KG before KG fouled Wade, they are wrong.
You can slow the video down on youtube and it clearly shows that KG had both hands on Wade before Wade's leg touched KG.
tjmakz
tjmakz

Posts : 4278
Join date : 2010-05-19

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by mrkleen09 Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:35 am

tjmakz wrote:

The Airline Ticket Exchange that was going on among referees was from the 1990's.
The NBA knew what the referees were doing and didn't have a problem with downgrading their airline seats.
The problem was some didn't report this as income with the IRS.

"Referees have the right to fly first class, and if they want to sell their seats for money and fly coach, they can do that," said Russell T. Granick, deputy NBA commissioner and the league's chief operating officer. ''And we file appropriate tax forms to report whatever's been done."

Why didn't anyone bring up Kenny Mauer's past before he refereed game 2.
This is big time Monday morning quarterbacking against the referees.

The referees were poor in the first two games of this series as they often are.
This is no different from the regular season.
Virtually every regular season game Tommy Heinsohn will spend a significant amount of time railing against the referees about calls and non-calls.

There is no excuse for missing the call when Rondo was hit in the head.

If anyone thinks that Wade's leg touched KG before KG fouled Wade, they are wrong.
You can slow the video down on youtube and it clearly shows that KG had both hands on Wade before Wade's leg touched KG.

TJ

People on this board have been complaining about the refs and the unprofessional ism of the Refs in the NBA - FOR YEARS. The fact that you choose to ignore it - is your problem.

Kenny Mauer is one OF MANY refs who are CONVICTED FELONS. You tell me what business based on integrity rehires felons?

Lets mark you down as a fan of David Stern - feel free to exclude yourself from ever complaining about the NBA again out here..

mrkleen09
mrkleen09

Posts : 3873
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 55

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by beat Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:54 am

Mrkleen

here is an interesting read!

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32212253

beat

PS: some of the comments are cute!
beat
beat

Posts : 7032
Join date : 2009-10-13
Age : 71

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by tjmakz Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:56 am

What is going on among many Celtics fans is not just complaining about referees. It has moved into referees fixing games. Referees having an agenda. Direction coming down from Stern about what teams should win and in how many games. Many Celtics fans have openly questioned the personal integrity of referees and David Stern.

The NBA is easily the hardest professional sport to referee.
With the amount of flopping that goes on from when guys drive through the lane and from when defensive players take charges, the referees are probably having a hard time deciding what is real and what is fake.

Even though the NBA is my favorite sport and I consider myself an NBA junkie, if I truly felt the NBA was fixed, I would walk away from the sport.
tjmakz
tjmakz

Posts : 4278
Join date : 2010-05-19

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by Outside Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:04 pm

The non-call on Rondo's drive was terrible and game-changing. Wade's drive where he kicked Garnett is an example of how he has turned into a punk who I intensely dislike. Pierce has the right to jump straight up to attempt a block.

But I agree with NYCelt that there is no conspiracy. Also that the refereeing is not as lopsided against the Celtics as some here think it is.

There's no excuse for the Rondo non-call. It was egregious and could very well have changed the outcome of the game. This single play gives fans the most cause for complaint, by far.

Next on the list is all the technicals in game 1. But those did not change the outcome of the game.

Many other refereeing decisions are colored by your position as a fan. The play where Rondo and LeBron fell diving for the ball should've been a non-call. I saw it as two players going for the ball; let it go. But, if anything, I saw Rondo undercut James rather than LeBron falling on Rondo. This is a technique of Rondo's, and I've seen him do it numerous times effectively -- he dives for a ball, not straight at it, but at an angle that shields the ball from a competing player. It's even on that slow-motion NBA promo of the great play against Jason Williams and the Magic last year.



Jason Williams wasn't willing to dive for the ball, and Rondo was. In the game against the Heat, both players were willing to dive for the ball. Like I said, I think the best call there would've been a non-call. But the one extenuating circumstance I see goes against Rondo.

The sixth foul against Pierce, in my opinion, shouldn't have been a foul. A defender is allowed to jump straight up, and that's what Pierce did. But that play going in the favor of the offensive player is hardly new; I was a shotblocker, and I clearly remember arguing that point (and losing) in my playing days long ago. Heck, Pierce has about 5,000 points at the free-throw line during his career from initiating contact on a defender. The main problem fans seem to have with that foul is that it's too minor to be his sixth foul. I have two problems with that: 1) do we really want referees making judgments about what constitutes a 6th foul versus other fouls? And 2) how about if Pierce stops racking up fouls by grabbing people on breakaways or otherwise picking up cheap fouls? He does that a LOT. You've got to expect to get a foul call or two to not go your way during a game. Picking up those cheap fouls can be a savvy veteran move that prevents an easy basket or makes them earn it at the free-throw line, but Pierce needs to realize that he's more important staying in the game.

I think the kick by Wade on Garnett was clearly an offensive foul. But when I brought up a similar play a while back, some of the same people crying conspiracy here had a different opinion.



In that instance, I said it was a foul, but others here said otherwise. Whether it's legal or not cannot be a matter of who's wearing green.

The passion and devotion of Boston fans is legendary, and that's largely a good thing, but it does have it's dark side, and I see it particularly in these claims of league bias and conspiracy theories. Basketball is by FAR the hardest game to officiate, so it's going to have the highest number of blown calls. The league makes matters worse by giving preferential treatment to stars. It's part of the business model -- fans want to see stars on the court and want to see them do well. But I do not see some league-mandated persecution of the Celtics. I wish this talk would just stop. It's nonsense.

It's like the lottery -- New Orleans wins the first pick, the league owns the Hornets, the league wants that franchise to survive, ergo there's a conspiracy to give New Orleans the first pick and Anthony Davis. That's all true except the "ergo" part. I generally like Adrian W. at Yahoo Sports, but he doesn't help matters with his column about how bad the lottery looked and griping by GMs around the league. Instead, I tend to believe Zach Lowe, who was actually there for the ping-pong ball part that determines the draft order.

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/05/31/an-nba-draft-lottery-conspiracy-it-didnt-seem-that-way/?sct=nba_t12_a1

The league doesn't broadcast that event because it's boring and confusing. Team representatives need cheat sheets to figure out what the numbers on the ping-pong balls mean. The league could help their cause by making video of that part (with explanatory commentary) available on the internet. They wouldn't have half this problem if they hadn't stupidly made themselves owners of the Hornets for two years. But just because A and B are true doesn't mean A + B = conspiracy. It just such harmful thinking, because once you see a conspiracy in one place, you see it everywhere.

The non-call on the Rondo play was awful and could very well have changed who won, but bad calls or non-calls happen. In these situations, I always go back to the attitude of the Russell championship teams, which was that it's your own fault if you put yourself in a position where one bad call can decide a game. Get another damn rebound and you win the game. Box out more often to prevent put-backs and you win the game. Move your feet and rotate better to prevent drives to the hoop (they sure wouldn't have allowed that in 2008), and you win the game. Take responsibility for the things you can control and don't put yourself at the mercy of things you cannot. THAT'S a championship attitude.

I wish we could have reasoned discussions about refereeing, but I learned a long time ago that hoping for that is like hoping I'll win the lottery. NYCelt, kudos to you for giving it a try. The main reason for my post is to give you a little support. After all, I know how futile the lottery is -- the best description of it is "a tax on the numerically challenged" -- but I still buy a few tickets every once in a while.

Outside
Outside
Outside

Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05

Back to top Go down

Those big bad paid off refs... Empty Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum