Re: Those big bad paid off refs...

by **MDCelticsFan** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:11 pm

Let's use NCAA Officals for the rest of the playoffs so the Celtics can get an even break!

MD!

by **beat** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:13 pm

MDCelticsFan wrote:Let's use NCAA Officals for the rest of the playoffs so the Celtics can get an even break!

MD!

HEAVENS NO

We'd have to deal with Jim Burr!!

And you think you have seen "bad" calls before, watch ole Jim do a couple games!

beat

by **KyleCleric** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:15 pm

MDCelticsFan wrote:Let's use NCAA Officals for the rest of the playoffs so the Celtics can get an even break!

MD!

Let's use international officials!! Razz

Oh the flopping ...

by **beat** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:18 pm

KyleCleric wrote:
MDCelticsFan wrote:Let's use NCAA Officals for the rest of the playoffs so the Celtics can get an even break!

MD!

Let's use international officials!!

Oh the flopping ...

Maybe only the one's that don't understand English then you can curse at them and they will smile at you!

beat

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:28 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote:How do you want Stern and the refs to be transparent?

Are you kidding? You act like accountability and transparency are new concepts.

Here are a few things the NBA should immediately implement - many of which are ALREADY IN PLACE in other sports:

-Review and comment on ALL incorrect game changing calls. Refs who blow a call should receive a point. Too many points, you no longer get to ref in the playoffs. Too many points in consecutive season - find a new job.

-Along those same lines, grade the refs and make those grades known to players and executives.

-Open up a more reasonable dialogue between all parties involved - including fans, by explaining rule changes and then implementing those changes for ALL players, not just the scrubs on the bench.

-Immediately remove all convicted felons who are working in the NBA and fire on the spot any future ref who is convicted of a crime which calls into question his judgement and impartiality.

-Institute a mandatory retirement age. Clearly people like Dick Bavetta and Joey Crawford cant keep up along longer, which is why they are out of position half the time.

Basketball is a tough game to officiate....maybe the hardest of them all. But something has to change.....or people are going to simply tune out.

You are quite un-informed.
The referees are reviewed by an independent organization.
The results help the league to determine who should be fired and who should have the privilege of working the playoffs/Finals.

What rule changes should fans be made aware of?
Rule changes are posted before each season starts.

Saying Crawford and Bavetta are out of position half the time is wrong.
That is just age discrimination disguised as the inability to do their job.

People are NOT tuning out the NBA.
It is extremely popular worldwide.

by **sinus007** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:33 pm

tjmakz wrote:Sinus,

One of the problems is that some Celtics fans are complaining about every call and not looking at this objectivly.
1) They say KG shouldn't have received a T in game 1. Yes he should have.
2) They say Rondo should not have received a T in game 1. Yes he should have.
3) The foul called on KG when Wade drove through the lane was a foul against KG.
4) Who are we to say Doc didn't deserve a T for something else earlier in the game and he finally got it when he said "Come On Ed"?
5) Rondo should have been called for a foul when he undercut LeBron who was closest to the ball.

To me here are the questionable or wrong calls:
1) Ray did not deserve a T even though he jumped in the air.
2) Wade did foul Rondo on his drive to the basket.
3) KG did hit the ball out of bounds in game 2 but they gave it to Boston.
4) Pierce's 6th foul was either a foul on Pierce or a non-call. It's hard to have a non-call with significant contact.

TJ,
Objectivity is very relative.
I have a suspicion that you are not looking at the whole picture objectively. For example, there's only one point out of 9 calls/no-calls in favor of Celtics. Can you name more? I'm going to help you: in game 2 refs didn't give Chalmers and1 when KG hit his arm.
As for the points you mentioned:
1. KG barely tapped the ball. It happens many times in a game with or without prior Game delay warning and, unless a player really throws the ball, there's no T.
2. Agree. Thou Battier was clearly blocking RR from getting back and pushing him into the stands. It should've been double T.
3. DW's foot hit KG before KG touched DW. ESPN announcers unequivocally declared it as an offensive foul.
4. This T was ridiculous. Coaches yell at and chat with the refs dozens times a game without any ramifications. It's unwritten rule.
5. The closeness to the ball doesn't count - the possession does. In that case neither LJ nor RR had it - the ball was up for grabs. Also, LJ was falling because he lost his balance not because RR tripped him.

1-3. Agree.
4. DW launched himself into the body of PP, who established his position way before DW's jump, because he has nowhere else to go; at the very last moment he even managed to turn around to throw the ball up. PP jumped straight up which is allowed by the rules. Also, PP was outside of the restricted area.

AK

by **mrkleen09** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:40 pm

tjmakz wrote: The referees are reviewed by an independent organization.

Really? You mean this guy, the "head of nba officials" who is a convicted felon?

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32212253

Yeah, sound independent to me....LOL

You are right TJ. We are the uniformed ones. Oh, us and the hundreds of media outlets talking about this all over the country today.

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:44 pm

Sinus,

KG hit the ball into the stands. That is a delay of game.
Go on youtube and watch the DW/KG replay. KG had both hands on DW before he was touched by Wade foot.
Also, watch the replay when Rondo undercut LeBron. LeBron only lost balance when Rondo hit into his legs.

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:46 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote: The referees are reviewed by an independent organization.

Really? You mean this guy, the "head of nba officials" who is a convicted felon?

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32212253

Yeah, sound independent to me....LOL

You are right TJ. We are the uniformed ones. Oh, us and the hundreds of media outlets talking about this all over the country today.

No, the "head of NBA officials" is not part of the group that evaluates the referees.

by **mrkleen09** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:52 pm

tjmakz wrote: No, the "head of NBA officials" is not part of the group that evaluates the referees.

So that clearly excuses his lack of integrity and credibility.

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote: The referees are reviewed by an independent organization.

Really? You mean this guy, the "head of nba officials" who is a convicted felon?

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32212253

Yeah, sound independent to me....LOL

You are right TJ. We are the uniformed ones. Oh, us and the hundreds of media outlets talking about this all over the country today.

Here's the bio for the man that is the NBA's Senior VP of Referee Operations.

http://www.nba.com/careers/executives/johnson.html

Here's a story about why Stern wanted to hire him:

"I was looking for a skill set," Stern said. "I was looking for somebody that had integrity, who could deal with the trove of data that we have." Stern said Johnson was "straight out of central casting."

In July 2008, Stern named Johnson, 56, senior vice president of referee operations. His new mission: Lead a new department, responsible for all aspects of referee operations (the management of league officials had previously fallen under basketball operations). Johnson's key lieutenants would be Bernie Fryer, a 28-year veteran official, who retired from the hard-court pounding a year earlier to become director of officials, and former referee Joe Borgia, an NBA vice president charged with developing new officials.

"This job is not about the person being an expert in refereeing. I've got people below me that are expert at that," Johnson told "Outside the Lines" in a recent interview at the NBA's Manhattan offices. "The key thing that is needed in this organization, I think, is both the leadership and the management of all that data … I've definitely got credentials for doing that."

Johnson's renewed emphasis on data analysis as a yardstick for measuring referee performance comes at a time when the NBA has a multitude of ways to assess the way officials do their jobs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5734373

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:01 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote: No, the "head of NBA officials" is not part of the group that evaluates the referees.

So that clearly excuses his lack of integrity and credibility.

I'm not saying anything about this guy.
I am stating that you have the wrong person.

by **mrkleen09** Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:13 pm

tjmakz wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote: No, the "head of NBA officials" is not part of the group that evaluates the referees.

So that clearly excuses his lack of integrity and credibility.

I'm not saying anything about this guy.
I am stating that you have the wrong person.

You are wrong. The current VP and Director of Officials is DON VADEN...same guy in the article I posted

http://www.nba.com/careers/executives/vaden.html

But nice try with the misdirection.

by **mrkleen09** Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:02 pm

And the plot thickens

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381842,00.html

NBA referee Tim Donaghy made repeated phone calls to a second referee at the same time he provided inside information to professional gamblers during the course of the 2006-2007 season, according to court documents and phone records obtained by FOXNews.com.

The records show Donaghy placed 134 calls to referee Scott Foster — more than the 126 calls Donaghy made to his bookie — between October 2006 and April 2007, the period during which he has confessed to either betting on games or passing on game information to gamblers. The majority of the phone calls lasted no more than two minutes and occurred prior to and after games Donaghy officiated and on which he admits wagering.

Calls between Foster, 41, and Donaghy, also 41, took place immediately before and after 54 of the 57 games Donaghy officiated from the beginning of the 2006-2007 season until mid-March

Donaghy also had three other cell phone numbers registered in his name, all of which he used. But he called Foster using the phone the feds say he designated for mostly gambling-related use.

The short calls with Foster stopped abruptly in mid March 2007, when Donaghy is believed to have stopped his gambling.

Guess who is one of the refs tonight in Boston.....Scott Foster.

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:24 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
tjmakz wrote: No, the "head of NBA officials" is not part of the group that evaluates the referees.

So that clearly excuses his lack of integrity and credibility.

I'm not saying anything about this guy.
I am stating that you have the wrong person.

You are wrong. The current VP and Director of Officials is DON VADEN...same guy in the article I posted

http://www.nba.com/careers/executives/vaden.html

But nice try with the misdirection.

The NBA's Senior VP of Referee Operations is a different person and holds a different position then the VP and Director of Officials.
Sorry, I don't play misdirection games.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:25 pm

this is one conversation that I will not get into. I have my feelings here and most of you know what they are. I am a die hard long, long time Celtics fan.
I have seen it all, the good, the bad and the ugly. Right now, I will watch tonight, as the Celtics win at home, and hopefully have nothing but good things to say at the end of the game!!

by **tjmakz** Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:27 pm

mrkleen09 wrote:And the plot thickens

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381842,00.html

NBA referee Tim Donaghy made repeated phone calls to a second referee at the same time he provided inside information to professional gamblers during the course of the 2006-2007 season, according to court documents and phone records obtained by FOXNews.com.

The records show Donaghy placed 134 calls to referee Scott Foster — more than the 126 calls Donaghy made to his bookie — between October 2006 and April 2007, the period during which he has confessed to either betting on games or passing on game information to gamblers. The majority of the phone calls lasted no more than two minutes and occurred prior to and after games Donaghy officiated and on which he admits wagering.

Calls between Foster, 41, and Donaghy, also 41, took place immediately before and after 54 of the 57 games Donaghy officiated from the beginning of the 2006-2007 season until mid-March

Donaghy also had three other cell phone numbers registered in his name, all of which he used. But he called Foster using the phone the feds say he designated for mostly gambling-related use.

The short calls with Foster stopped abruptly in mid March 2007, when Donaghy is believed to have stopped his gambling.

Guess who is one of the refs tonight in Boston.....Scott Foster.

Would you care AT ALL about Scott Foster if he was refereeing in the SA/OKC series?

by **NYCelt** Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:40 pm

OK, OK...

I started this conversation, so how about allowing me to end it.

When Rosalie kicks in that this is a conversation she has no interest in joining I think it's time we all move on. She's earned her reputation for knowing what is and isn't worthwhile to pursue, which I respect.

How about this...

- Some of us think the foul issue is an overreaction

- Some of us think the foul issue is part of a bigger problem

- One of us (me) is sorry he mentioned it.

I'm going to guess we're done here.

Regards and, oh yeah, there's a game tonight...

GO CELTICS!

by **tardust** Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:59 pm

Beat for all your ramblings earlier, you hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph. I to don't believe on any great fix or conspiracy however the league seems to do nothing to dispell these beliefs by not addressing the incompetent officals and benching/suspending them when they "blow" it.

As far as KG tipping the ball after a made basket in game one, you know how many times I saw Miami do that the next game?

by **tardust** Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:02 pm

It also funny that even though us Celtic fans are complaining,, all you have to do is watch other game with certain players and you see the same thing. Hate to bring up the Lakers but their games a lot of times remind me of Heat games. How is it that Lebron can go 6 games and have 4 fouls called on him? I understand he takes it to the rim and gets more foul shots but how can he never foul? That right there is enough to get me thinking.

by **tardust** Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:06 pm

tjmakz wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:And the plot thickens

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381842,00.html

NBA referee Tim Donaghy made repeated phone calls to a second referee at the same time he provided inside information to professional gamblers during the course of the 2006-2007 season, according to court documents and phone records obtained by FOXNews.com.

The records show Donaghy placed 134 calls to referee Scott Foster — more than the 126 calls Donaghy made to his bookie — between October 2006 and April 2007, the period during which he has confessed to either betting on games or passing on game information to gamblers. The majority of the phone calls lasted no more than two minutes and occurred prior to and after games Donaghy officiated and on which he admits wagering.

Calls between Foster, 41, and Donaghy, also 41, took place immediately before and after 54 of the 57 games Donaghy officiated from the beginning of the 2006-2007 season until mid-March

Donaghy also had three other cell phone numbers registered in his name, all of which he used. But he called Foster using the phone the feds say he designated for mostly gambling-related use.

The short calls with Foster stopped abruptly in mid March 2007, when Donaghy is believed to have stopped his gambling.

Guess who is one of the refs tonight in Boston.....Scott Foster.

Would you care AT ALL about Scott Foster if he was refereeing in the SA/OKC series?

Yes sir I would. I live halfway between both cities and have always been a Spurs fan and now also a Thunder fan, and all I want is a well officiated game. I have mixed feelings on who I want to win but I don't want the refs to have anything to do with the outcome.

by **NYCelt** Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:11 pm

Sorry guys and gals; this topic is now locked and done.

No disrespect intended to anyone, we've just beaten the topic to death.

Let's all watch the game tonight...

GO CELTICS!

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