POST GAME CLEVELAND

The players haven't asked for the rules to change to protect them.
The owners want to protect their players as much as they can from unnecessary injuries. The league wants to protect the players (the assets) from injury. The defensive players are bigger, stronger and faster too which can result in serious injuries for reckless or careless play.

So, are we talking about the NBA or pick up games with friends in Tampa or Boston? The NBA sets the rules of conduct that all players must abide by or be penalized. In Tampa we play basketball very hard, but play very clean games. If you knock someone on their ass or hit them in the head, it is a foul and if the contact is unintentionally hard, you apologize. We are very competitive but none of us want to receive a broken nose or dislocated shoulder from some fool that is playing reckless.

You have to realize that rules change. The NBA changes rules almost every single year. I think they do make rule changes every year. Businesses change rules all the time. Schools change the rules all the time. The IRS changes rules all the time....

mrkleen09 wrote:That is bullshit and another example of the NBA watering down the game. When you get the ball first...it is a clean play. ALWAYS has been.

Makes no difference what the clowns at the NBA feel about it. And if I was Doc, Collins get the game ball for plays like that...and the team should pay his fine.

Mrkleen,

I believe the league requires the individuals fined to pay their own penalties and do not allow the clubs to pay it for them.


bob


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Bob

And Senators are not allowed to take cash donations and Donald Trump has a head of natural hair.

Hi,
The area of foul vs flagrant foul is so gray, murky, muddy - it's not even funny. The judgement usually depends on 3 factors: the refs, the teams and the players involved. Rarely it depends on the actual event (despite the ability to review it). Last night was a classical example.
I agree with other posters who suggested that the last night was equal opportunity screw-ups: refs decided to spread calls/no-calls evenly.
This particular game is OK for such approach, IMO. But what if it is a critical game in playoffs, equal teams, very close game? The answer is one of the teams is going to be screwed.

As for the game, win is a win. Regardless of the opponent.

Also, I disagree with suggestion that Bobh could make a lot of money on his post-game analysis. In order to sell it with any media outlet you have to be PC. I don't know him personally but judging by his posts here I'd say Bobh being PC - I don't think so....

AK

TJ,

I saw the repeat today and saw the replay 3X on KG.......not even close......all ball........even Mike Gorman who is not a homer said it was a clear block by KG.

On Collins..........sorry .......saw the replay again today several times......Thompson was going up as Collins had his arms up and pushed down......the rules is intent to injure.......sorry but he was blocking the ball not intending to hit the player.

This again is a rule that is in the grey area that needs better understanding by the league. Also the league gives the ref's a subjective approach when determining the call.......which can be biased at times.

Tommy and Mike said the guy making these calls have been one sided against the Celtics every time he has come into TD Garden.

112288

112288 wrote:TJ,

I saw the repeat today and saw the replay 3X on KG.......not even close......all ball........even Mike Gorman who is not a homer said it was a clear block by KG.

On Collins..........sorry .......saw the replay again today several times......Thompson was going up as Collins had his arms up and pushed down......the rules is intent to injure.......sorry but he was blocking the ball not intending to hit the player.

This again is a rule that is in the grey area that needs better understanding by the league. Also the league gives the ref's a subjective approach when determining the call.......which can be biased at times.

Tommy and Mike said the guy making these calls have been one sided against the Celtics every time he has come into TD Garden.

112288

I saw the foul on Collins differently then you did and so did the referees even when they looked at the replays.
There is no gray area when it comes to making hard contact above the shoulders.
When a player comes down hard (especially with 2 arms like Collins did) and hits the offensive player in the head, it is a flagrant foul.
Do you think the refs were biased toward Tristan Thompson and against Jason Collins?
Collins has been a very good citizens in the league for a dozen years.
I am pretty confident that no referee has anything against him.
I am not sure how you can take seriously anything that Tommy says about the referees.
I hear him complain and either say or insinuate game after game that a specific referee has something against the Celtics.

As far as flagrant fouls are concerned, retribution is in order for giving submarines (not Subway variety) on high flying dunks to 1 Kobe for his cheap shot on Perkins two years ago in the 2010 Finals that put him out for more than 6 months. 2. D. Wade for intentionally dislocating Rondo's elbow in 2011 for falling back on him when his (Rondo's) elbow was prone & vulnerable. 3' One to LeBum James for his defication on Cleveland by defecting from Jim Brown's city by leaving before he vowed to bring a title to the City by the Lake. That would be-"And Justics for All." Credit to Al Pacino who's NEVER out of order.

MD!

First I did not say Tommy, I said Mike Gorman. Second they said it during the game. Third the view from the opposite end of the court clearly...clearly showed that Collins got all ball....and the ball hit Thompsons' head not his arms!

I coupled the clear charge that was a no call which was called a blocking foul against Collins with flagrant foul.........and the KG clear block which was called a foul that got my suspicions up that the refs either are completely blind or ...or .....calling a different game or..........if ever I was to accuse a ref of covering the point spread it sure smelled like it.

I guess we can agree that we disagree....................and we'll leave it at that 'cause this can go on endlessly.......more important things to debate about!

112288

112288 wrote:First I did not say Tommy, I said Mike Gorman. Second they said it during the game. Third the view from the opposite end of the court clearly...clearly showed that Collins got all ball....and the ball hit Thompsons' head not his arms!

I guess we can agree that we disagree....................and we'll leave it at that 'cause this can go on endlessly.......more important things to debate about!

112288

You did say Tommy and Mike.

I can't find a video but I know from what I saw and from this picture in this story that Collins clearly didn't get "all ball".

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2012/12/jason_collins_boston_celtics.html

I have one question, where was Wilcox last night? Did they announce at the beginning of the game that he wasn't playing?

As far as the call on Collins, I guess they have to call it, but how about giving out a flopping warning for the call on Rondo when he got up and laughed with his bench. That was disgusting. This is supposed to be what this flopping rule is supposed to stop

Rosalie

Tj

That is intellectually dishonest! I have seen that trick before, its old and out dated!

You show a still picture of after the fact where you should be showing the ball goes off the guys head first. Why not be honest and show the whole video to prove your point. You cannot!

I guess they do that sort of thing on the West Coast when trying to dis celebs like in National Enquirer. You may have a new career!

112288

112288 wrote:Tj

That is intellectually dishonest! I have seen that trick before, its old and out dated!

You show a still picture of after the fact where you should be showing the ball goes off the guys head first. Why not be honest and show the whole video to prove your point. You cannot!

I guess they do that sort of thing on the West Coast when trying to dis celebs like in National Enquirer. You may have a new career!

112288

What are you talking about intellectually dishonest? You are really grasping for anything at this point.
I told you I can't find the video. If you can, feel free to post it for all of us.
I found that same picture on multiple different websites.
Below is a close up picture from NESN.
Here is what the story said about the foul:
When Collins delivered the hard foul to Thompson that ended his night, he was greeted at the bench by high-fives and fist-pounds by thankful teammates.

http://nesn.com/2012/12/jason-collins-stays-ready-contributes-in-ways-beyond-box-score-for-celtics/

It's hard to believe that some can't get past what Tommy tells them and see the facts.

So TJ

So where is the video hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

I guess the California smog is clouding your vision....and your thought process!
If you cannot produce the facts........you tend to use distortion ......job well done!

112288

112288 wrote:So TJ

So where is the video hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

I guess the California smog is clouding your vision....and your thought process!
If you cannot produce the facts........you tend to use distortion ......job well done!

112288

How many times do I need to tell you that I can't find the video?
Again, if you find it, please post it.
So, a picture of a player with his arm across the face of another player while his head is being pushed backwards is me using distortion?
Sorry to tell you that I don't live anywhere near California.

I proved my point.
I have pictures to show it and the fact that the referees called it a foul (and a flagrant) and confirmed that decision when they watched it on video many times.
You have brought no facts to the table concerning this discussion, just your opinion earlier in this thread:
This gets into a grey area of the game. If you do not exert enough downward pressure on a potential block.......the ball may go in. If you looked closely......the ball and not Collins arms hit the player.
Do you still stand by that comment?

TJ,

We have more to worry about....the world is going to end tomorrow.........so we'll debate this on the other side.............bring sun tan lotion!

As I said we agree to disagree................Happy Holidays!

112288

tjmakz wrote:

112288 wrote:This gets into a grey area of the game. If you do not exert enough downward pressure on a potential block.......the ball may go in. If you looked closely......the ball and not Collins arms hit the player.

I say on review it just should have been a foul....nothing else.

The proof of what was going on with the refs last night was towards the end when they called a quick foul on KG's block when it was clear as day that Kg had all ball.

Oh and how about the blocking foul on Collins when it was clearly a charge!
Get glasses for the ref's for X'Mas!!!!!!

112288

Sorry, the rule is clear that what Collins did is a flagrant foul.

If you look at the KG foul call again slowly, you will see that he hit Thompson on the right arm.

I would agree that the blocking foul called on Collins (I think) should have been called an offensive foul.

Its funny that Dwight Howard can block a shot and knock someone into the second row and its not even called a foul let alone flagrant.

112288 wrote:TJ,

I saw the repeat today and saw the replay 3X on KG.......not even close......all ball........even Mike Gorman who is not a homer said it was a clear block by KG.

On Collins..........sorry .......saw the replay again today several times......Thompson was going up as Collins had his arms up and pushed down......the rules is intent to injure.......sorry but he was blocking the ball not intending to hit the player.

This again is a rule that is in the grey area that needs better understanding by the league. Also the league gives the ref's a subjective approach when determining the call.......which can be biased at times.

Tommy and Mike said the guy making these calls have been one sided against the Celtics every time he has come into TD Garden.

112288

It also depends a lot on who is actually doing the blocking. If Lebron or Dwight did he same thing I doubt there would have even been a foul called.

Tardust

Agreed!

112288

tardust wrote:

112288 wrote:TJ,

I saw the repeat today and saw the replay 3X on KG.......not even close......all ball........even Mike Gorman who is not a homer said it was a clear block by KG.

On Collins..........sorry .......saw the replay again today several times......Thompson was going up as Collins had his arms up and pushed down......the rules is intent to injure.......sorry but he was blocking the ball not intending to hit the player.

This again is a rule that is in the grey area that needs better understanding by the league. Also the league gives the ref's a subjective approach when determining the call.......which can be biased at times.

Tommy and Mike said the guy making these calls have been one sided against the Celtics every time he has come into TD Garden.

112288

It also depends a lot on who is actually doing the blocking. If Lebron or Dwight did he same thing I doubt there would have even been a foul called.

Dwight does not have a good reputation with the referees because of the amount of elbows he has used over the years.
For an interesting stat about LeBron, he has not committed 1 foul in any of his last 5 games and has been called for only 3 fouls in his last 8 games.

tjmakz wrote:For an interesting stat about LeBron, he has not had 1 foul called on him in his last 5 games and has been called for only 3 fouls in his last 8 games.

Fixed. Lebron commits LOTS of fouls. Whether the 3 blind mice at the direction of King Stern call them is a different story.

I thought you would like that stat.

A view from the other side...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/12/paul_pierce_has_40_points_as_b.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Here's a few excerpts:


BOSTON -- Alonzo Gee was having a running dialogue with Paul Pierce
while chasing him all over the court on Wednesday night at TD Garden.


"I actually was trying to talk to him," Gee said, "but it wasn't working."


Indeed, nothing Gee tried bothered Pierce in the least as the
Celtics' veteran forward, who has torched the Cavs so many times in the
regular season and the playoffs, went off for a season-high 40 points to
lead the Celtics to a 103-91 victory. Pierce made 13 of 16 shots, six
of seven 3-pointers as the Celtics snapped a three-game losing streak to
improve to 13-12.


"I was like, 'Man calm down a little bit,'" Gee said with a smile. "He said, 'I'm just trying to make you better.'



MY NOTE: I love that last part. Heheheh...


"There was nothing we could do with him tonight," Scott said. "A
great player like that, a future Hall of Famer, sometimes they get it
going and there's really nothing much you can do. Paul got it going. He
hit some shots tonight. I haven't seen him play that way in a while.
Sometimes you just gotta pat him on the butt and say great job."

Even Pierce seemed a bit surprised to be told he was the oldest Celtic (35) to score 40 points in a game.


"When I first got into the league, I always asked myself if I wanted
to be good, if I wanted to be great," he said. "Every time I stepped up
and worked on my game, that's the question I asked: How good did I want
to be? ... Working on my craft as hard as I could because I wanted to
be one of the great players. And that's the same hard work I feel I've
put in over the years."



bob


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