Celtics have a new center.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=66878.msg1524168;topicseen#new

3 year contract.

Well, at least we have one experienced center now. I'm looking forward to watching him play.


bob

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Here's his stat page.

http://basketball.eurobasket.com/player/Vitor_Faverani/Valencia_Basket/77584


What jumps out at me is that he's a young, 6'11", 260# center who only averaged 17mpg and 4.6rpg. If he's so good why did he play bench player minutes? 4.6rebs/17mpg comes out to 9.74rebs/36mpg. Not that great. The NBA is much more physical than Euro basketball. He better be ready to fight for his boards here.

I also noticed Valencia is his 5 Spanish team. He has, however, been with Valencia since 2009. A lot of bouncing around his first few years, I guess.

He wears #13.

bob

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Bob,I have the answer to your question.In Europe teams are allowed to have at much as 10 import players,but they can use only 3 at a time.In Spain teams has many centers or pivots and rotate them very much.

Bob,I am not sure that the NBA is much more physical than Euro basketball,teams there play only once or two games in a week and they spend a lot of time lifting weights.Players from the old Yugoslavia and the former Soviet Union are considered dirty players who play very hard and are very strong,players like Nikola perovic .Another reason for the lack of minutes is that they play only 40 minutes instead of 48 minutes like in the NBA.

Well, hardly into the offseason, things seem to be taking preliminary shape. I took the following roster off a site reporting the Faverani trade. Personally, I would have listed Iverson at center and Olynyk at power forward, although I still believe we'll see some of Kelly at the center position. If the season were starting tomorrow (perish the thought), I'd dump Melo, Joseph and Crawford to get down to 15; but that's ENTIRELY premature, as I expect at least some (if not many) of the following players to be replaced by others by training camp. But a couple of things pop out.

• Danny's obviously intent on adding toughness to the center position.

• With Olynyk, Bass, Sully and Humphries sharing the PF position, that position will be extremely versatile, with someone for just about any situation and great depth preventing fatigue.

• Pressey, under the tutelage of Rondo, could be the answer at backup PG.

• The SG position has more numbers than quality. I hope Danny will find a way to get a real starting sharpshooter, and I'll be fine if he has to sacrifice Lee, Crawford and maybe Brooks in the process.

• It could be fun to watch Pressey and Bradley as a defensive duo, driving opposing backcourts crazy.

• I'm still hoping for an NBA-experienced center to join the team, with Shavlik probably being the odd guy out. Even if they get a center who's on the downside of his career, it would be nice to think someone's on board to tutor the young centers.

• Please Danny, please Danny, either dump Melo or send him to Lourdes for a transformative miracle.

Sam

8I assume that Iverson is going overseas?

CHECK THIS GUY OUT!

http://acbtv.acb.com/video/5705-lacb-20122013-copa_del_rey-77-vitor_faverani_el_hombre_indestructible

THIS GUY HAS THE BODY!

112288

112288 wrote:CHECK THIS GUY OUT!

http://acbtv.acb.com/video/5705-lacb-20122013-copa_del_rey-77-vitor_faverani_el_hombre_indestructible

THIS GUY HAS THE BODY!

112288

112288,

I've seen this on youtube, under a different name. His offense is all dunks and in close. He seems to have an Al Jefferson bank shot from 3'. His footwork seems to be good, ala Tim Duncan. Of course, not knowing the players who are defending him I can't say much about how tough getting that position and using it was for him.

Let's hope it all translates into the NBA.


bob


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international wrote:Bob,I have the answer to your question.In Europe teams are allowed to have at much as 10 import players,but they can use only 3 at a time.In Spain teams has many centers or pivots and rotate them very much.

international,

I hope you're right about this guy.  I always root for players in green and he's now in green.

I looked at his game logs for last year.  He had some good rebounding games (12, 13 and a couple of 10 rebound games) but most of his games he disappeared on the boards.  Of the 14 games in which he played his season average of 17 minutes or more, he averaged 6.07rpg. He played 23 games last year, so that means he played 9 games in which he played less than 17mpg.  I don't know if he battled chronic injuries last year, but if your starting center plays less than 17mpg for 40% of your season, that not a lot of minutes.  40 minutes is the same length as a NCAA game.  Those starters play more than 17mpg.

Regardless of how many players you have, can play or the length of the game, he still only played 17mpg.  The game could be 30 minutes long, instead of 40 or 48, he still only played 17.  Assuming he's on the team and starting this year, is he suddenly going to go from 17mpg to 30+mpg just because the game is 8 minutes longer?  I suspect not.

On his team, Valencia, there is only one other player over 6'9".  So, they are not a tall team, at least not by NBA standards.  My point here is that he didn't have great depth behind him at center and therefore could afford to be sat down.

As far as the physical Russian and Eastern Euro players, you may be right, but every time I watch Euro highlights (I don't watch entire games, so I cannot speak with as much authority as you can on this) but I don't see a lot of physical play, especially not under the boards.  I see a lot more run-and-gun.  There are some great, great shooters in Europe, some tremendous transition players.  As far as bruising, physical play under the basket, I haven't seen much and that's what Faverani is going to be staring at every night.

Like I said at the top, I'm hoping and praying you're right on this guy.  We NEED a center and Fab Melo isn't him.  Colt Iverson has some good points but, at best, he's a rookie and will be treated as such by the refs.  I'm crossing my fingers and will try to be patient as he learns the NBA game and players, but we need him to be able to come in and play well quickly.  Given our roster, as it currently stands, we cannot afford to send him to Maine to get some seasoning.

Thanks for addressing my concerns.


bob


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Bob...in that team of Valencia 14 players played over 10 minutes,7 played over 20 minutes and 13 played around 15 minutes or more.As I told you the rule aloud only 3 imports playing at the same time and the majority of the teams use import point guards and small forwards that spend a lot of time in the court,so there is not a lot of time for the centers,thats why you see the bigs playing between 17 and 20 minutes.Do you know how much time did Lucas Nogueira play with Estudiantes de Madrid?13 minutes.Nikola Miirotic considered the best NBA ready prospect in Europe only played 22 minutes and he play as a Spaniard because he was nationalized.

The deal has been described by Marc Spears of Yahoo as being 3 years, $6M total.

If this guy is anywhere near as good as international is describing him, $2M/year for a 6'11", 260# center is a very good deal.  The proof is in the pudding, of course, but he's got an NBA body and he's a seasoned pro.  It will be interesting to see how well he transitions from Euro ball to NBA ballin'.  Fighting for position in the low post against Dwight Howard, Jordan, Drummond and Pekovic will be a real eye-opener for him.  I hope he's not a golden retriever like Melo.  He's going to need some inner hostility to hold his own against those players and goldens just don't have a mean bone in their bodies.

In other, tangential news Colton Iverson's agent is saying they are willing to work with the Celtics and accept an overseas contract for a year. There were rumblings from overseas websites that he was considering a contract with a team in Turkey, but that was shot down. Bottom line, Danny needs to move contracts, still, with or without Iverson.

I guess that means we're stuck with The Retriever this year.  Damn.  I hope Iverson's agent is smart enough to get an NBA out in his contract.  Just in case.  You know, in case of injuries.  Or Danny starts shipping bodies out of town en masse.  Or all the above.  Iverson needs to work on his game, no doubt, but I loved the way he grinned everytime he set a pick that rocked someone's world.


bob

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Correction Bob,I am not saying if Faverani is a good player or not ,I am clarifying the fact about why he played only 17 minutes.Ihave never seen him playing,but I read a lot of articles about European basketball and I know the different rules about the foreign players.In that league a good rebounder average about 4 to 5 per game due to the limited playing time.In fact the leader of the league in rebounds won it with 6.2.Today I was reading an articles about the new center of Valencias team and they were saying this in Spanish.....He is going to have a hard time providing the offense that Faverani gave to our team.

http://encestando.es/juanjo-trigurero-nuevo-fichaje-del-valencia-basket-para-suplir-la-baja-de-faverani/

I guess he'll get the nick name KING VITOR!

112288

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/




NBA scouts give their take on Celtics' new center, Vitor Faverani
Posted by Baxter Holmes, Globe Staff July 23, 2013 12:10 PM


In time, Vitor Faverani will make an all-important first impression with Celtics fans and others who don't yet know what to make of the 25-year-old Brazilian center's game. The season will begin, he'll play, and then his skill-set will be picked apart by the masses.

For now, though, there will largely only be speculation about what exactly the Celtics are getting in the 6-foot-11, 260-pound Faverani, whom they signed to a three-year deal Monday that's said to be worth $6 million. Likewise, it's unclear how the Celtics might use him.

A little background, first: He played last year for Valencia Basket Club of the Spanish ACB League, averaging 9.3 points and 4.6 rebounds in 17 minutes in 23 games.

Also, Faverani was eligible for the 2009 NBA draft but was not selected.

"He was not drafted because he was very immature and did not take the game seriously," said an Eastern Conference scout who said he spent considerable time scouting Faverani.

"He could not be trusted. He has done a lot of growing up, both on and off the floor, and has turned the corner, so to speak."

In terms of how Faverani fits in with the Celtics, the scout said, "I can see him as a pick-and-pop big, offensively. Where he fits defensively and being a consistent rebounder will be the key."

In describing Faverani's strengths and weaknesses, both offensively and defensively, the scout noted that Faverani can shoot and that offense, overall, is his biggest strength.

"That's what puts him on the floor – being hard to guard versus mismatches," the scout said. "He was never considered a defender/rebounder. He can run, is a good athlete."

A Western Conference scout provided this take:

"He has got an NBA frame and great wingspan. He is pretty athletic and likes to work on the defensive end of the floor. He has good feet and he is good in (pick-and-roll) defense.

"He is active, can block shots from the weak side and likes to bang. This is where his nickname "El Hombre Indestructible" comes from.

"On offense he is still raw, he is not selfish and has decent passing skills from the low post. He is good as a roller in pick and rolls. He was shooting threes decently three years ago in a weaker team, but not consistently enough to let him continue that in Valencia (a high level team).

"I don't remember back-to-the-basket moves except an interesting half-hook (shot). He never had great exposure with the Brazilian (national team) because they have plenty of big guys and coach always preferred other bigs.

"I don t know how good he can be in the NBA, but he is worth a try."


bob
MY NOTE:  Gleaning what I can from this article, I'm feeling like our pick-and-roll defense will be very weak this year if our centers are Faverani and Melo.  Part of that will be due to Faverani not knowing the NBA game and the rest of it is that his fellow Brazilian, Senhor Retriever, still plays like he's never seen a pick-and-roll.  Offensively, though, King Vitor might be good.  Also, if he's a banger, he might work out in the low post defense, it's switching where we'll see his weaknesses.  I can almost guarantee they play different defensive schemes in Europe.  If they didn't, then the Euros coming to the NBA would be better defenders coming straight out of the box.

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gyso wrote:Bobh,

A Western Conference scout provided this take:

"He has got an NBA frame and great wingspan. He is pretty athletic and likes to work on the defensive end of the floor. He has good feet and he is good in (pick-and-roll) defense.

Do you know something that the scout (who has seen him) doesn't know?

gyso

Gyso,

Nope just brain-farted past that part. Happy to be wrong here.


bob


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http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9503638/vitor-faverani-brings-size-intrigue-boston-celtics


Vitor Faverani brings size, intrigue
Celtics hope Brazilian big man's game translates from Spain to NBA stage
Updated: July 23, 2013, 10:02 PM ET
By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com


Call him an international man of mystery.

Vitor Faverani arrives in Boston as a great unknown, but on a young Celtics team thin on size at center, there exists an opportunity for the 25-year-old big man to prove himself early on the NBA stage.

Vitor Faverani has shown considerable offensive skills, but his defense could be an issue.

Here's what we know about Faverani: The Brazilian native landed in Spain as a teenager and began his professional career at age 17. The 6-foot-11, 260-pound power forward/center has been slowed at times by injuries, which didn't aid his cause while being passed over after declaring for the 2009 NBA draft. He spent the past two seasons with Valencia BC of Spain's Liga ACB and averaged 9.3 points and 4.6 rebounds over 17 minutes per game in 23 appearances this past season.

Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said the team has kept close tabs on Faverani in recent seasons. According to overseas reports, Faverani worked out privately for Boston last month as part of a 10-day showcase for NBA teams, and the Celtics came away impressed enough to pay a reasonable escape clause (one overseas report pegged it at 500,000 euros, which would be $661,650).

Reports also have indicated that Faverani signed a three-year, $6 million contract, meaning the Celtics used a portion of their midlevel exception to sign him (likely with an option for the final season). For a team now dancing on the luxury tax apron and hard-capped after receiving Keith Bogans in a sign-and-trade with the Nets, that's no small commitment despite being a reasonable contract.

The lingering question: What can he do on the floor?

The scouting report from those who have watched Faverani overseas is nearly universal: a skilled and athletic offensive player but a question mark on the defensive end.

That's confirmed by the advanced stats from his play overseas. In 34 games for Valencia last season, Faverani averaged 0.976 points per play (324 points over 332 plays), which ranked him in the 72nd percentile among all international players, according to Synergy Sports data. His post numbers won't wow you (0.888 ppp), but he thrived last season in the pick-and-roll (1.2 ppp) and off of offensive rebounds (1.361 ppp). He's prone to turnovers, but his offensive skills are obvious.

He isn't afraid to fire away from the perimeter either, having showcased 3-point range in recent seasons, but he made just 5 of 28 shots (17.9 percent) from beyond 17 feet last year. He does have nice touch around the basket, shooting 66 percent in non-post-up situations around the hoop.

Teams quickly will identify that he thrives around the right blocks and likes to run the middle of the floor in transition and off the pick-and-roll. He'll have to prove he can finish as effectively against NBA back lines that will be bigger and more physical than what he's seen overseas.

The bigger question mark is whether Faverani can elevate his defensive play in the NBA. According to Synergy data, he allowed 0.88 points per play, ranking in the 42nd percentile among all international players last season. He was exploited at times in the post (1.081 ppp, 10th percentile), but was stout against the pick-and-roll (0.632 ppp, 79th percentile).

Film study from Valencia clips last season reveal a player who, defensively, seems to be slow to react around the basket at times and sometimes gets caught on his heels. The Boston Globe offered two interesting takes on Faverani from NBA scouts, and one revealed an entertaining nickname: "El Hombre Indestructible." For a player who has battled injuries and needs to show more defensive toughness, that's a nickname he's going to have to reestablish stateside. But his desire to joust will serve him well at this level.

Ainge has noted he's content with Boston's center depth at the moment, though Faverani joins Shavlik Randolph (whose contract is non-guaranteed) and the still raw Fab Melo (a Brazilian countrymate) as the only players on the current roster who would be dubbed pure centers. (Second-round pick Colton Iverson remains unsigned as Boston juggles its roster.)

It's more likely that Boston will mix and match up front with its growing stable of versatile 4s, maybe utilizing Jared Sullinger as a back-to-the-basket 5, while rookie Kelly Olynyk plays a more typical power forward role at times. Boston also has Kris Humphries and Brandon Bass at a log-jammed power forward spot that could get a facelift before training camp depending on how Boston trims salary and manages its roster space.

But Faverani undeniably is an intriguing addition. It might be unfair to expect too much in his first season in the NBA, but he's still young enough to mold. He's another young body with potential whom Boston will allow new coach Brad Stevens to work with. At a low-risk salary, it's worth a roll of the dice on a high-mystery big man.


bob


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Yes, I agree, get rid of Fab. That was the lamest attempt I have seen at finding a big man, while at the same time picking up 3 new shooting guards, and resigning green for way to much $.

Before I go in too deep on this topic, I just want to reintroduce myself to the forum. The reason I left, was because I could not stand doc rivers (post Perkins trade), and for the first year of my life, I actually routed against the Celtics this past season. I did not think that wilcox,bass or oneal, were realistic replacements for a real big man. And, I don't think that we needed a big man for offense, or for rebounds, or even for blocked shots. We needed a big man for a real defensive presence downlow. It is a very simple and important concept. I think small ball is a sham, & I think it will crumble to pieces this season, now with a Asik and Howard, kg and Lopez, World Peace/chandler/Stoudemire. Speed is good, but you need height as well. I believe that had Doc played stiemsma and/or Darko (gave him only 5 minutes in 3 weeks), we could have won it 2011 and 2012. Selavi, but let's just say, I'm glad to see Doc go.

As for this new center, I think it's incredibly hard to tell how someone will play in the NBA, unless they are a star in college ball. And, even then plenty of lottery picks have bit the dust once they came to the NBA. So I say, wait and see. Fab Melo is no good. Juwan Johnson on the other hand was very good. & I think doc should have given him a chance.
The problem now, defensively, is that we've gotten rid of an amazing defensive power forward, KG. So even with a decent Center, we are still going to be weak downlow (though Sully is fantastic!) . Its irrelevant though, because we are rebuilding. But in the next few years, it won't be a matter so much of WHO plays center, so much as how much importance ainge and Bradley place on height with regards to defense. not rebounds, not blocked shots, but merely Defending the Hole. If you can create an intimidating presence in the hole, then you push the other teams offense outside. And if you have quick defenders on the perimeter, such as Bradley, then you are you taking away a variety of options from the opposing teams offense. Any player from the old days will tell you this. And while those players might not have been as athletic as those of today, their game concepts were far superior.
That said, I'm super psyched about this season in general. Brooklyn, Rose and the Bulls, the knicks, the heat, the Spurs, rockets, pacers, warriors.... it's looking exciting.

One other note. I think the next 10 or 15 years is going to see a serious wild card with regards to international players joining the league. The reason being that some players play better when they play against better players. I was always like that in soccer and basketball myself. Anytime the competition stepped up, I did as well. So as the influx becomes greater from the International realm, as well as from the D League, we're going to see some pretty impressive surprises. To put it short, in 10 years, money isn't going to buy everything. It's going to be about scouting, and luck.

Josh

Josh,

Good to see you back here. I hope you will contribute your thoughts often.

Regards

Welcome back, Josh. Sorry your Celtics allegiance got temporarily derailed (although it's understandable, given their recent performances), but I'm glad you're back on board.

Sam

Thanks:) I appreciate it.

Josh

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2013/07/boston_celtics_news_2013_brad_1.html


Boston Celtics news 2013: Brad Stevens calls Vitor Faverani 'a skilled guy,' explains his philosophy about the starting 5

Boston Celtics head coach Brad Stevens likes Vitor Faverani's skills. (AP Photo/Josh Reynolds)
Print Jay King, MassLive.com By Jay King, MassLive.com
on July 26, 2013 at 10:10 AM


Boston Celtics news 2013: Brad Stevens calls Vitor Faverani 'a skilled guy,' explains his philosophy about the starting 5


Boston Celtics ranked 13th in Eastern Conference by ESPN writer, who predicts a woeful offense

We still don't know much about Vitor Faverani, the 25-year old Brazilian center signed by the Boston Celtics last week.

ESPN Boston's Chris Forsberg provided a nice scouting report based on game film and a statistical study, two NBA scouts gave conflicting reports of Faverani's strengths to the Boston Globe, YouTube clips show glimpses of what he can offer, and still the aura of mystery surrounding Boston's newest big man won't be eliminated until he plays a few games in green.

Head coach Brad Stevens hasn't seen Faverani in person, but he's watched tape as he attempts to learn the pros and cons of every player on his roster. Stevens has said his top priority this summer is gaining an understanding of everything his players can provide, in order settle on a system that should maximize the Celtics talent at both ends of the court. During a podcast Thursday with WEEI's Ben Rohrbach, Stevens praised Faverani's offensive abilities.

“He’s a skilled guy," said the coach. "He can shoot the ball away from the basket. He can also score in the post. He’s obviously been well coached. I have seen him only on film. I have spent some time in communication with him, and we’re looking forward to getting him over here and obviously a guy with size that gives you some flexibility on both ends of the court.”

When a Twitter follower of Jonathan Givony's recently disparaged Faverani's game, Givony -- who runs the phenomenal NBA Draft resource DraftExpress.com -- replied: "Faverani can really score. Very good offensive rebounder."

The Brazilian's per-game statistics last season in the Spanish ACB league (9.3 points, 4.6 rebounds) don't look impressive, but they become far more attractive when adjusted for pace and extrapolated over 40 minutes per game (20.6 points, 10.2 rebounds, 60 percent true shooting). In just 17 minutes per game, he led his team in rebounding.

Stevens will be tasked with finding out how to get the most from Faverani. The coach spent about half an hour on Rohrbach's podcast, going over everything from why he wore No. 31 as a player (Reggie Miller) to his real dislike for the word tanking (actually, he said it's not in his vocabulary at all). You should check out the podcast if you have time, but here's what he had to say about intangibles needed to complement talent and his philosophy regarding the starting five:

“There’s a minimum level of ability that goes into making this thing successful anyway," he said. "All the other intangibles are certainly extremely important and maybe give you an advantage in a low possession game, so you have to have that minimum level of talent, and you coach to those intangibles the best you can, and the guys that combine the two the best usually play the most."

"I really don’t give that a lot of thought (to the starting five) in general," Stevens added. "One of the reasons why is because you don’t necessarily always start the five guys that are going to finish the game. You don’t start the five games who are maybe the best five. You may start the best couple and then the guys who complement them. You just find that out as you go through the early season.

“I think that’s why some guys in this league have played a long time who may be less talented than others, because they’ve figured out how to be complementary guys to the best players, so obviously the best ones have to separate themselves, which they will do in the training camp, and then we’ll go from there.”



bob


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