Cleveland Watch

Sam wrote:Why belabor the "punk" thing? That was retracted graciously.

When "momentary" lapses in judgement occur with increasing regularly, they become the norm and cease to be "momentary."

And the body language I see from him in every game is incessant.

Sam

I dont get to watch Lebron that often...if I watched him every game, I might be on board with you guys.

dbrown4 wrote:GA,

What exactly was LeBron saying, w/o getting too explicit? I recorded the game but wasn't paying attention to that part.

Nothing obscene or XXX rated in content. The obscenity was in the delivery.

I was struck watching LBJ screaming over and over again at the top of his lungs drowning out someone he was not looking at......"I'm not talking to you. I'm not talking to you. I'm not talking to you!" but of course he was talking... DOWN... to the guy... or ref? Hard to know.

My take: You are beneath me. I don't have to talk to you. You are dismissed from my presence. Out of my sight, naive! Off with your head!

Very condescending, haughty, indignant yammering. Somebody clearly had LBJ's number and had pushed his buttons to the point of distraction and loss of composure.

GC

I've said it before...I wouldn't start measuring for their coffin just yet.

MDCelticsFan wrote:Jeb: You're far too harsh on Lebron. He's just somewhat misguided at times, and at other times needs to be more judicious about his choice of words and topics. If you want to see a punk, look at the scum that wears #24 for the Lakers.-MD.

At least # 24 for the Lakers was man enough to shake the Celtic's hands and congratulate them after a humiliating game 6 beatdown.

As opposed to LBJ, who I used to like, but have been really put off by over the last year.

LBJ ran off the court instead of manning up and shaking hands with the better team, which included his Olympic teammate and supposed "friend" Dwight Howard.

You think "punk" is too harsh ? OK, how about "little biyatch", because that's how he acted that night. Absolutely no class. He's fine to dance and prance around and taunt his opponents when he's winning, but can't stick around to congratulate his opponents when he loses ? That was pathetic.

Hi,
Since I live in zip that still considered to be Cleveland and I have to keep peace in the family by being Cavs fan as long as they don't play Celtics, I'll give my $.02.
Cavs have zillion problems, as any other NBA team, but the major one is LJ. His talent, incredible abilities in all aspects of the game mask many problems of the team, e.g. glaring need for a true PG, horrible coach.
I don't know if the presence of a coach such as PJ will fly. For the last 4-5 years with Mike Brown as a pal not a coach (as one of the posters said) really spoiled LJ. Now, whoever comes has to first break him which I doubt will go smoothly.
As for "punk" - it depends what meaning you put into the word. I'd say he's a spoiled prodigy child in dire need of a guidance. Hopefully, it's not too late.

AK

Sinusoo7

Well said. He came into the nba a pretty damned well rounded unselfish player. No one is telling him no. It's written all over him. That aint good. urround yourself with yes men and toadies at yoour own peril. Kid needs a reality check double bad. His game is more selfish by far than it was.

I didn't like Rasheed until this year. If LJ wore the green who would like that dance if he used it against the Lakers?

I can't say I'm disagreeing with anyone's opinions about LJ. Despicable, if I could spell it in a word. But let us face it. If he were a Celtic how much immaturity could you handle? Remember PP and the face bandage?

Cuttin him some slack isn't on my list of things to do however. I know I'll draw heat for this but.....Today's athletes aren't what they once were and are grossly overpaid especially in Baseball and Basketball......I'm not talking about skill. I'm talking about attitude.

Hoop

Jeb,
Thanks. But I disagree about his game being selfish a la Kobe. His competitiveness forces it. Unfortunately and fortunately for us, he can't or doesn't want to rely on the other 4 at the crunch time and, there's nobody to make him to do so.

AK

Sinus

He is worse this year than last.

Lebron's a physical freak, one of the most dangerous scorers ever to play basketball, who knows how to play defense, and is intelligent. He's still immature? Wonderful. What happens if Shaq starts to whisper in his ear about making his teammates better? That's the secret, your highness, let your teammates carry you as far as they can before you lower the boom. Then, Leon Powe comes back and becomes Leon, the king's sidekick, the inside complement to James's outside game, Leon, household name, well-deserved, couldn't happen to a better guy, but, but please, basketball gods, let it happen in some alternate universe. In this one, let 'em lose to the Cs in 7.

LaCelt

No coffin yet but it seems very clear they have taken a step back. It also seems clear there are some problems in the locker room. It's kinda turning into a freak show.

McHale on LeBron.

"If a guy was doing the Riverdance like that, coach would come over and say, 'Who's got the fewest amount of fouls of my big fellas?' " said ex-Celtic and TNT analyst Kevin McHale. "If you raised your hand, he would say, 'We will let him drive and then we will throw him on the ground.'

"When he is laying there we would say, 'Do you feel like dancing now?'

"And that pretty much solved the dancing problem."

Ah the old days.

Greg Kite!

Billy Paultz!

MDCelticsFan wrote:As far as Phil Jackson is concerned, I think he's done with coaching after his contract expires with the Lakers. I think he's tired of the grind and the aggrivation. I wouldn't look for him in Cleveland or any place else.

MD-

you're right about that. There's no way he's going to Cleveland. Why would he want to take on that dog of a roster ? LA is much much better positioned over the next five years than Cleveland (and most other teams for that matter). Plus- with his arthritis, he's not going to want to spend the winter in Cleveland.

Phil will coach the Lakers until his health becomes too much of an issue for him.

He's got a lot of time invested into turning Kobe into a team player- no reason for him to walk away from that as it's starting to bear fruit. And KObe is talking about playing until he is 40- that's nine more years. I don't know if Phil (or Kobe) will last that long, but he wants to keep going for a while.

He's got Artest as a new challenge and getting Bynum to be a defensive force is also on his plate.

He knows how to coach a team to repeat as champions better than anyone else in the modern era, so he's right where he wants to be.

And given Phil's history with Red Holzman, I think it means a lot to him to try to get the Lakers past the Cs in total championships.

He's probably feeling like that's a reasonable possibility in the next five years based on the ages of the respective rosters.

Shaq praises LBJ's basketball IQ and says that he could step in and coach in the NBA right now!!!! LBJ is flattered but at the moment... coy and non-commital. (Is there an opening somewhere? In Cleveland maybe?)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4731136

With such a unique appreciation for the game, one has to wonder how our multitalented LBJ possibly takes Mike Brown role as the designated head coach seriously. Or does he?

Could Lebron possibly be ready to step in as a player coach.... doing it all?

I ponder this question breathlessly.

Besides no one would look up to "Coach" Lebron more admiringly than.... Lebron himself! Can his teammates be far behind?

GC

Well, its only been done by one other person that I know. And that was after winning 8 championships, I think. (Correct me Sam/others if I am wrong. I'm speaking out of my comfort zone.)

There were many reasons why he only did it for only one season, one of which I imagine was that it is extremely difficult/impossible to split your mind between being a great player and a great coach and be effective at both.

But hey, if anyone can do it, it's LEBRON!!!!! (Trust me, I want to be derogatory here but I will resist the temptation.)

It is fitting, deserving and amazing that Russell accomplished what he did that season. Truly remarkable.

"Jerk" is probably a word not best used, unless it is in the context of "Jerk Chicken". Then you can call me all you want and I'll ask for seconds.

bob

Dave DeBusschere became player-coach of the Pistons at age 24. It didn't go all that well, though (79-143), and he was finally replaced as coach and later traded as a player.

There is an argument that Russ succeeded as a coach primarily because he had such great chemistry with his best player—himself.

Sam

dbrown

Remember Russ failed his first coaching season, to the 76'ers great 67 team. Afterwords I recall reading somewhere that coaching and playing were to much for him to do and he went to some of his teamates like Hondo and Sam for help with subs, and keeping track of fouls, minutes ect. Once he spread out the duties and could focus a bit more on playing, he won the next two years, 68 and of course 69.

beat

I know a little about this subject. For one thing, there's a great story about a guy named Alex Hannum.

In 1957 the St. Louis Hawks owner Ben Kerner fired his coach and told Slater Martin he would have to coach the team. Martin was the St. Louis point guard and had won multiple championships with George Mikan and Minneapolis. Martin told Kerner he didn't want the job, didn't think he could do it. When Kerner insisted, Martin said he would only do it if another player, bench warmer Alex Hannum, could be his assistant. Slater went to Hannum, a friend, and told Hannum he couldn't run the offense and keep track of substitutions, foul situations, all the myriad things a coach has to keep in his head, so Hannum, sitting on the bench, had to do that for him. After a couple of weeks, Hannum became the player coach and Slater went back to playmaking and plaguing Bob Cousy.

At the end of that season, Hannum led the Hawks to a thrilling seven game NBA Final against the Celtics that was only decided by the brilliance of rookies Bill Russell and Tommy Heinsohn. The next year, Hannum led the Hawks past the Celtics for the title. They were back in the Finals twice more in the next few years.

Hannum also was the coach of the '67 76ers who were the only other team to beat a Bill Russell team in the playoffs. In the '67 series, Bill made a few slight coaching errors, particularly regarding substitutions, that opened the door just enough for a fantastic team like that Sixers team. Bill corrected the problem in the following years primarily by allowing John Havlicek to be the unacknowledged assistant coach. Curiously enough, Havlicek's most important coaching contribution was that he was the only player who could yell at Bill on those few occasions when Bill coasted. Havlicek would see Russell jogging up the court and yell, "Get going, Bill!" and Russell would pick up the pace.

Dave Cowens was the only other player-coach of the Boston Celtics, late in his career.

One more thing about Alex Hannum. In the double overtime thriller that launched the Celtics Basketball Camelot in 1957, The Hawks had the ball with 2 seconds left at the end of the second overtime. Hannum called the players into the huddle, told Bob Pettit to stand at the foul line of the Celtics basket and Hannum himself would throw a length of court pass off the Celtics backboard so that the rebound would come to Pettit.

After he said that, Ed Macauley later related, some of the Hawks players were thinking, 'Hannum can't hit the backboard fron 10 feet away, so how's he going to hit from the other end of the court?'.

Of course, Hannum did just as he said he would, and Pettit had the ball 15 feet away from the basket with the chance to tie the score. He shot, it bounced on the rim and away. Celtics won their first of many. Now, if it hadn't been for those pesky guy wires that kept those backboards so tight, it might have gone to triple overtime. But that's another story.