Sports Illustrated NBA Players Rankings

I thought kleen was way overboard, regardless of Kirolenko, I think 9 out of 10 Celtic fans if we could go back in time, wish we could have kept Perk and not done that trade. Both players have their strengths and weaknesses, but Perk fit in seamlessly, his defensive presence was a big part of that teams identity.... Jeff Green has no identity, he doesn't do one thing well that you can rely on night in and night out.

steve3344 wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:It is unfortunate, because clearly Steve is a very smart basketball fan with a good mind for numbers and stats, but time and time again - his system has fallen down against criticism.  Reminds me of John Hollinger (I am sure Sam would be happy to tell us once again what a fan he is of Mr Hollinger and his statistical background), who year after year was proven to be a failure in his rankings - yet continued to persevere.

As for specific discourse about Jeff Green, Steve has long since lost any semblance of credibility or objectivity on the subject.  Not sure if this board has an "ignore" feature like so many other message boards.  But Steve is the first and only person in the history of this board that has me searching for such an option.  SMH.

When I interviewd Jack Ramsay for my research (one of the five coaches I interviewed, along with Red Auerbach, Pat Riley, Hubie Brown and Stan Albeck in '81-'82), Dr. Jack said - and I quote - "For a system based purely on stats, your system is the best one I've ever seen."  And I've got that on tape.

OK, so you're right and Hall of Fame coach Jack Ramsay is wrong.  I get it.  

And I got similar responses from Hubie Brown and Pat Riley.   And Red was fun to talk to about it because of his famous quote "statistics are for losers" so I knew he wasn't the one to compliment me on it.  On the other hand, he never belittled it in our chat either.  But to him it was all about the wins and nothing else mattered.  So even knowing that, I chose to interview him to get his thoughts and he was terrific in his observations.

Hope you can find that ignore option.

I think he said fockin losers!!! LOL

I knew it was only a matter of time before the annual "Jeff Green BashFest 2014" reared its ugly head.

I still can't fathom why on Earth people want to criticize a complimentary player for being a complimentary player. It's not like the Celtics made a trade for a Kevin Durant/Lebron James type and ended up with JR Smith.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:I knew it was only a matter of time before the annual "Jeff Green BashFest 2014" reared its ugly head.

I still can't fathom why on Earth people want to criticize a complimentary player for being a complimentary player.


KJ

KJ,

The same reason Sam Bowie and Joe Smith were panned despite both having decent, but not spectacular, careers. They failed to come up to expectations. Jeff Green has eye-popping talent, he was a #5 pick, he's getting paid $9M a year and he's a, to use your description, "complementary player".




bob




.

We have been around and around this circle before. 9 million dollars a year is CHUMP change in relation to what NBA players are paid. Here are a few in that relative price range

RK NAME TEAM SALARY
Nicolas Batum, SF Portland Trail Blazers $11,765,500
Danilo Gallinari, SF Denver Nuggets $10,854,850
Gerald Wallace, SF Boston Celtics $10,105,855
DeMar DeRozan, SG Toronto Raptors $10,100,000
Steve Nash, PG Los Angeles Lakers $9,701,000
Kendrick Perkins, C Oklahoma City Thunder $9,654,342
Tiago Splitter, C San Antonio Spurs $9,250,000
Jeff Green, SF Boston Celtics $9,200,000
Jordan Hill, PF Los Angeles Lakers $9,000,000
Trevor Ariza, SG Houston Rockets $8,579,089
Channing Frye, PF Orlando Magic $8,579,088
Marcus Thornton, SG Boston Celtics $8,575,000
Jeremy Lin, PG Los Angeles Lakers $8,374,646
George Hill, PG Indiana Pacers $8,000,000

But yeah, Jeff Green is overpaid. SMH

BobH,

How many top of the line players make $9M/year? Top shelfers make $12M+ easy.

That's not Jeff's level, and that's fine. He's getting paid as a complimentary player, not a max contract player; hence why guys like Durant can command twice as much if not more per year.

I don't recall many people calling him the next great wing player as he was coming out of Georgetown, which has been my point all along. Ainge knew what he was getting, an athletic wing with some defense and scoring ability, not a premier go-to guy.


KJ

It appears that Jeff's going to be with the team this season, and it appears that he's not going to be refunding any of his salary.  Isn't it about time to live with both facts and root for a good guy to make the best possible contribution to the team he's named after?

Sam

I'm rooting for him, have no choice, hes our starting SF and acquiring him years ago ruined a legit shot to win it all....what a shame to do that to guys like KG and Pierce.

as great a job as Danny did building that team overnight in one offseason, that trade for Green crippled that team, what a huge mistake!!!!!!!

mrkleen09 wrote:We have been around and around this circle before.  9 million dollars a year is CHUMP change in relation to what NBA players are paid.  Here are a few in that relative price range

RK NAME TEAM SALARY
Nicolas Batum, SF Portland Trail Blazers $11,765,500
Danilo Gallinari, SF Denver Nuggets $10,854,850
Gerald Wallace, SF Boston Celtics $10,105,855
DeMar DeRozan, SG Toronto Raptors $10,100,000
Steve Nash, PG Los Angeles Lakers $9,701,000
Kendrick Perkins, C Oklahoma City Thunder $9,654,342
Tiago Splitter, C San Antonio Spurs $9,250,000
Jeff Green, SF Boston Celtics $9,200,000
Jordan Hill, PF Los Angeles Lakers $9,000,000
Trevor Ariza, SG Houston Rockets $8,579,089
Channing Frye, PF Orlando Magic $8,579,088
Marcus Thornton, SG Boston Celtics $8,575,000
Jeremy Lin, PG Los Angeles Lakers $8,374,646
George Hill, PG Indiana Pacers $8,000,000

But yeah, Jeff Green is overpaid.  SMH

theres alot of overpaid players and for all his overall game shows or mostly doesn't show anything for most stretches, Green is overpaid.

cowens/oldschool wrote:as great a job as Danny did building that team overnight in one offseason, that trade for Green crippled that team, what a huge mistake!!!!!!!

Cow - I don't hold that against Jeff Green. As a Celtic fan of course I root for him but am constantly annoyed by his complete disappearance every several games and his lack of contribution in many areas other than scoring, especially in assists. And even when he does that he does it at a poor shooting percentage. If you're not gonna pass well, at least shoot well. And Jeff doesn't. Not consistently anyway. He had a stretch last year where he shot under 30% for around a dozen games I remember. Good shooters don't have prolonged droughts like that.

Hey Cow,

Is there any truth to the rumor that you wish the Celtics hadn't traded Perk for Jeff Green?

Honestly, Cow, we get your concern. Truly!  We get it.  We get it.

Sam

The problem with viewing things through a microscope is that you don't really see the entire picture. That's what's being done here with Jeff Green, whether people choose to admit that or not.

I'm optimistic about his prospects this upcoming season, and I'm sure he'll do better.



KJ

k_j_88 wrote:The problem with viewing things through a microscope is that you don't really see the entire picture. That's what's being done here with Jeff Green, whether people choose to admit that or not.

I'm optimistic about his prospects this upcoming season, and I'm sure he'll do better.



KJ

The microscope I use to focus in on Green's game showed me that last year wasn't pretty for him. And I looked at the whole picture. Granted, it wasn't pretty for the whole team but other players have been known to have good years on bad teams. Jeff didn't, that's obvious. Let's see what happens this year. It's a critical one for him. No excuses. Play hard and play well. You were a #5 pick. Play like one.

steve3344 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:The problem with viewing things through a microscope is that you don't really see the entire picture. That's what's being done here with Jeff Green, whether people choose to admit that or not.

I'm optimistic about his prospects this upcoming season, and I'm sure he'll do better.



KJ

The microscope I use to focus in on Green's game showed me that last year wasn't pretty for him.  And I looked at the whole picture.  Granted, it wasn't pretty for the whole team but other players have been known to have good years on bad teams.  Jeff didn't, that's obvious.  Let's see what happens this year.  It's a critical one for him.  No excuses.  Play hard and play well.  You were a #5 pick.  Play like one.

To nobody in particular, just about high draft picks...


Here's the top 10 picks for the past 10 years.  The ones that, in MY opinion, have gone on to distinguish themselves as we are being led to believe high draft picks should do, are in bold.  In the case of the last 2 drafts or so excuses might be made for why they're not exploding out of the blocks, but for the ones that are more than 3 years old...

2004

Dwight Howard* C United States Orlando Magic Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy (Atlanta, GA) HS Sr.
Emeka Okafor PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats (from L.A. Clippers)[6] Connecticut (Jr.)
Ben Gordon G United Kingdom[7] Chicago Bulls Connecticut (Jr.)
Shaun Livingston PG United States Los Angeles Clippers (from Charlotte)[6] Peoria HS (Peoria, IL) HS Sr.
Devin Harris+ G United States Washington Wizards (traded to Dallas)[8] Wisconsin (Jr.)
Josh Childress G/F United States Atlanta Hawks Stanford (Jr.)
Luol Deng+ SF South Sudan United Kingdom[9]
Phoenix Suns (traded to Chicago)[10] Duke (Fr.)
Rafael Araújo C Brazil Toronto Raptors BYU (Sr.)
Andre Iguodala+ G/F United States Philadelphia 76ers Arizona (So.)
Luke Jackson


2005

Andrew Bogutx C Australia Milwaukee Bucks Utah (So.)
Marvin Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks North Carolina (Fr.)
Deron Williams* G United States Utah Jazz (from Portland)[f] Illinois (Jr.)
Chris Paul* G United States New Orleans Hornets Wake Forest (So.)
Raymond Felton G United States Charlotte Bobcats North Carolina (Jr.)
Martell Webster G/F United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Utah)[f] Seattle Prep. School (Seattle, WA) HSSr.
Charlie Villanueva F United States
Dominican Republic Toronto Raptors Connecticut (So.)
Channing Frye C United States New York Knicks Arizona (Sr.)
Ike Diogu F United States
Nigeria Golden State Warriors Arizona State (Jr.)
Andrew Bynum*


2006

Andrea Bargnani F Italy Toronto Raptors Benetton Treviso (Italy) 1985
LaMarcus Aldridge* F United States Chicago Bulls (from New York, traded to Portland)[o][a] Texas (So.)
Adam Morrison F United States Charlotte Bobcats Gonzaga (Jr.)
Tyrus Thomas F United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Chicago)[a] LSU (Fr.)
Shelden Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks Duke (Sr.)
Brandon Roy* G United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Portland) Washington (Sr.)
Randy Foye G United States Boston Celtics (traded to Minnesota via Portland) Villanova (Sr.)
Rudy Gay F United States Houston Rockets (traded to Memphis)[c] Connecticut (So.)
Patrick O'Bryant C United States Golden State Warriors Bradley (So.)
Mouhamed Sene


2007

Greg Oden C United States Portland Trail Blazers Ohio State (Fr.)
Kevin Durant* SF United States Seattle SuperSonics Texas (Fr.)
Al Horford* C Dominican Republic Atlanta Hawks Florida (Jr.)
Mike Conley, Jr. PG United States Memphis Grizzlies Ohio State (Fr.)
Jeff Green SF United States Boston Celtics (traded to Seattle)[a] Georgetown (Jr.)
Yi Jianlian PF China Milwaukee Bucks Guangdong Southern Tigers (China) (born 1987)[23]a[›]
Corey Brewer SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Florida (Jr.)
Brandan Wright PF United States Charlotte Bobcats (traded to Golden State) North Carolina (Fr.)
Joakim Noah* C Franceb[›] Chicago Bulls (from New York)[l] Florida (Jr.)
Spencer Hawes


2008

Derrick Rose* PG United States Chicago Bulls Memphis (Fr.)
Michael Beasley SF United States Miami Heat Kansas State (Fr.)
O. J. Mayo SG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Memphis)[a] USC (Fr.)
Russell Westbrook* PG United States Seattle SuperSonicsa[›] UCLA (So.)
Kevin Love* PF United States Memphis Grizzlies (traded to Minnesota)[a] UCLA (Fr.)
Danilo Gallinari SF Italy New York Knicks Olimpia Milano (Italy) 1988
Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
Brook Lopez+


2009

Blake Griffin* PF United States Los Angeles Clippers Oklahoma (So.)
Hasheem Thabeet C Tanzania Memphis Grizzlies Connecticut (Jr.)
James Harden* SG United States Oklahoma City Thunder Arizona State (So.)
Tyreke Evans SG United States Sacramento Kings Memphis (Fr.)
Ricky Rubio PG Spain Minnesota Timberwolves (from Washington)[a] DKV Joventut (Spain) (born 1990)[19]
Jonny Flynn PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (So.)
Stephen Curry* PG United States Golden State Warriors Davidson (Jr.)
Jordan Hill PF United States New York Knicks Arizona (Jr.)
DeMar DeRozan+ SG United States Toronto Raptors USC (Fr.)
Brandon Jennings


2010

John Wall+ PG United States Washington Wizards Kentucky (Fr.)
Evan Turner SG United States Philadelphia 76ers Ohio State (Jr.)
Derrick Favors PF United States New Jersey Nets Georgia Tech (Fr.)
Wesley Johnson SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (Jr.)
DeMarcus Cousins C United States Sacramento Kings Kentucky (Fr.)
Ekpe Udoh PF United States Golden State Warriors Baylor (Jr.)
Greg Monroe C United States Detroit Pistons Georgetown (So.)
Al-Farouq Aminu SF United States
Nigeria[n 2] Los Angeles Clippers Wake Forest (So.)
Gordon Hayward SF United States Utah Jazz (from New York via Phoenix)[a] Butler (So.)
Paul George*


2011


Kyrie Irving+ PG United States[n 2] Cleveland Cavaliers (from L.A. Clippers)[a] Duke (Fr.)
Derrick Williams SF/PF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Arizona (So.)
Enes Kanter C Turkey[n 3] Utah Jazz (from New Jersey) Kentucky (Fr.)[n 4]
Tristan Thompson PF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers Texas (Fr.)
Jonas Valančiūnas C Lithuania Toronto Raptors[c] Lietuvos Rytas (Lithuania)
Jan Veselý PF Czech Republic Washington Wizards Partizan (Serbia)
Bismack Biyombo PF DR Congo Sacramento Kings (traded to Charlotte)[A] Fuenlabrada (Spain)
Brandon Knight PG United States Detroit Pistons Kentucky (Fr.)
Kemba Walker PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Connecticut (Jr.)
Jimmer Fredette PG


2012

Anthony Davis+ PF/C United States New Orleans Hornets Kentucky (Fr.)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist SF United States Charlotte Bobcats Kentucky (Fr.)
Bradley Beal SG United States Washington Wizards Florida (Fr.)
Dion Waiters SG United States Cleveland Cavaliers Syracuse (So.)
Thomas Robinson PF United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Jr.)
Damian Lillard* PG United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Brooklyn)[a] Weber St. (Sr.)
Harrison Barnes SF United States Golden State Warriors North Carolina (So.)
Terrence Ross SG United States Toronto Raptors Washington (So.)
Andre Drummond C United States Detroit Pistons Connecticut (Fr.)
Austin Rivers


2013

Anthony Bennett PF/SF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers UNLV (Fr.)
Victor Oladipo SG/PG United States Orlando Magic Indiana (Jr.)
Otto Porter SF United States Washington Wizards Georgetown (So.)
Cody Zeller PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats Indiana (So.)
Alex Len C Ukraine Phoenix Suns Maryland (So.)
Nerlens Noel# C United States New Orleans Pelicans (traded to Philadelphia)[A] Kentucky (Fr.)
Ben McLemore SG United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Fr.)
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope SG United States Detroit Pistons Georgia (So.)
Trey Burke PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Utah)[b] Michigan (So.)
C.J. McCollum


That's 27, out of 300.  Less than 10% of the Top 10 draft picks in every year going back 10 years have made me think that tanking for the high pick is a successful strategy.  You can get much better odds at the track.



bob



.

Steve,

I don't think using a pick # is the proper tool for determining how good a player should be, or even how good that player will become.

-Darko Milicic was a #2 pick. Did he play like one?

-Kobe Bryant was drafted at #13. I think he has a handful of rings.


KJ

bobheckler wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:The problem with viewing things through a microscope is that you don't really see the entire picture. That's what's being done here with Jeff Green, whether people choose to admit that or not.

I'm optimistic about his prospects this upcoming season, and I'm sure he'll do better.



KJ

The microscope I use to focus in on Green's game showed me that last year wasn't pretty for him.  And I looked at the whole picture.  Granted, it wasn't pretty for the whole team but other players have been known to have good years on bad teams.  Jeff didn't, that's obvious.  Let's see what happens this year.  It's a critical one for him.  No excuses.  Play hard and play well.  You were a #5 pick.  Play like one.

To nobody in particular, just about high draft picks...


Here's the top 10 picks for the past 10 years.  The ones that, in MY opinion, have gone on to distinguish themselves as we are being led to believe high draft picks should do, are in bold.  In the case of the last 2 drafts or so excuses might be made for why they're not exploding out of the blocks, but for the ones that are more than 3 years old...

2004

Dwight Howard* C United States Orlando Magic Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy (Atlanta, GA) HS Sr.
Emeka Okafor PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats (from L.A. Clippers)[6] Connecticut (Jr.)
Ben Gordon G United Kingdom[7] Chicago Bulls Connecticut (Jr.)
Shaun Livingston PG United States Los Angeles Clippers (from Charlotte)[6] Peoria HS (Peoria, IL) HS Sr.
Devin Harris+ G United States Washington Wizards (traded to Dallas)[8] Wisconsin (Jr.)
Josh Childress G/F United States Atlanta Hawks Stanford (Jr.)
Luol Deng+ SF South Sudan United Kingdom[9]
Phoenix Suns (traded to Chicago)[10] Duke (Fr.)
Rafael Araújo C Brazil Toronto Raptors BYU (Sr.)
Andre Iguodala+ G/F United States Philadelphia 76ers Arizona (So.)
Luke Jackson


2005

Andrew Bogutx C Australia Milwaukee Bucks Utah (So.)
Marvin Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks North Carolina (Fr.)
Deron Williams* G United States Utah Jazz (from Portland)[f] Illinois (Jr.)
Chris Paul* G United States New Orleans Hornets Wake Forest (So.)
Raymond Felton G United States Charlotte Bobcats North Carolina (Jr.)
Martell Webster G/F United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Utah)[f] Seattle Prep. School (Seattle, WA) HSSr.
Charlie Villanueva F United States
Dominican Republic Toronto Raptors Connecticut (So.)
Channing Frye C United States New York Knicks Arizona (Sr.)
Ike Diogu F United States
Nigeria Golden State Warriors Arizona State (Jr.)
Andrew Bynum*


2006

Andrea Bargnani F Italy Toronto Raptors Benetton Treviso (Italy) 1985
LaMarcus Aldridge* F United States Chicago Bulls (from New York, traded to Portland)[o][a] Texas (So.)
Adam Morrison F United States Charlotte Bobcats Gonzaga (Jr.)
Tyrus Thomas F United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Chicago)[a] LSU (Fr.)
Shelden Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks Duke (Sr.)
Brandon Roy* G United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Portland) Washington (Sr.)
Randy Foye G United States Boston Celtics (traded to Minnesota via Portland) Villanova (Sr.)
Rudy Gay F United States Houston Rockets (traded to Memphis)[c] Connecticut (So.)
Patrick O'Bryant C United States Golden State Warriors Bradley (So.)
Mouhamed Sene


2007

Greg Oden C United States Portland Trail Blazers Ohio State (Fr.)
Kevin Durant* SF United States Seattle SuperSonics Texas (Fr.)
Al Horford* C Dominican Republic Atlanta Hawks Florida (Jr.)
Mike Conley, Jr. PG United States Memphis Grizzlies Ohio State (Fr.)
Jeff Green SF United States Boston Celtics (traded to Seattle)[a] Georgetown (Jr.)
Yi Jianlian PF China Milwaukee Bucks Guangdong Southern Tigers (China) (born 1987)[23]a[›]
Corey Brewer SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Florida (Jr.)
Brandan Wright PF United States Charlotte Bobcats (traded to Golden State) North Carolina (Fr.)
Joakim Noah* C Franceb[›] Chicago Bulls (from New York)[l] Florida (Jr.)
Spencer Hawes


2008

Derrick Rose* PG United States Chicago Bulls Memphis (Fr.)
Michael Beasley SF United States Miami Heat Kansas State (Fr.)
O. J. Mayo SG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Memphis)[a] USC (Fr.)
Russell Westbrook* PG United States Seattle SuperSonicsa[›] UCLA (So.)
Kevin Love* PF United States Memphis Grizzlies (traded to Minnesota)[a] UCLA (Fr.)
Danilo Gallinari SF Italy New York Knicks Olimpia Milano (Italy) 1988
Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
Brook Lopez+


2009

Blake Griffin* PF United States Los Angeles Clippers Oklahoma (So.)
Hasheem Thabeet C Tanzania Memphis Grizzlies Connecticut (Jr.)
James Harden* SG United States Oklahoma City Thunder Arizona State (So.)
Tyreke Evans SG United States Sacramento Kings Memphis (Fr.)
Ricky Rubio PG Spain Minnesota Timberwolves (from Washington)[a] DKV Joventut (Spain) (born 1990)[19]
Jonny Flynn PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (So.)
Stephen Curry* PG United States Golden State Warriors Davidson (Jr.)
Jordan Hill PF United States New York Knicks Arizona (Jr.)
DeMar DeRozan+ SG United States Toronto Raptors USC (Fr.)
Brandon Jennings


2010

John Wall+ PG United States Washington Wizards Kentucky (Fr.)
Evan Turner SG United States Philadelphia 76ers Ohio State (Jr.)
Derrick Favors PF United States New Jersey Nets Georgia Tech (Fr.)
Wesley Johnson SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (Jr.)
DeMarcus Cousins C United States Sacramento Kings Kentucky (Fr.)
Ekpe Udoh PF United States Golden State Warriors Baylor (Jr.)
Greg Monroe C United States Detroit Pistons Georgetown (So.)
Al-Farouq Aminu SF United States
Nigeria[n 2] Los Angeles Clippers Wake Forest (So.)
Gordon Hayward SF United States Utah Jazz (from New York via Phoenix)[a] Butler (So.)
Paul George*


2011


Kyrie Irving+ PG United States[n 2] Cleveland Cavaliers (from L.A. Clippers)[a] Duke (Fr.)
Derrick Williams SF/PF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Arizona (So.)
Enes Kanter C Turkey[n 3] Utah Jazz (from New Jersey) Kentucky (Fr.)[n 4]
Tristan Thompson PF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers Texas (Fr.)
Jonas Valančiūnas C Lithuania Toronto Raptors[c] Lietuvos Rytas (Lithuania)
Jan Veselý PF Czech Republic Washington Wizards Partizan (Serbia)
Bismack Biyombo PF DR Congo Sacramento Kings (traded to Charlotte)[A] Fuenlabrada (Spain)
Brandon Knight PG United States Detroit Pistons Kentucky (Fr.)
Kemba Walker PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Connecticut (Jr.)
Jimmer Fredette PG


2012

Anthony Davis+ PF/C United States New Orleans Hornets Kentucky (Fr.)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist SF United States Charlotte Bobcats Kentucky (Fr.)
Bradley Beal SG United States Washington Wizards Florida (Fr.)
Dion Waiters SG United States Cleveland Cavaliers Syracuse (So.)
Thomas Robinson PF United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Jr.)
Damian Lillard* PG United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Brooklyn)[a] Weber St. (Sr.)
Harrison Barnes SF United States Golden State Warriors North Carolina (So.)
Terrence Ross SG United States Toronto Raptors Washington (So.)
Andre Drummond C United States Detroit Pistons Connecticut (Fr.)
Austin Rivers


2013

Anthony Bennett PF/SF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers UNLV (Fr.)
Victor Oladipo SG/PG United States Orlando Magic Indiana (Jr.)
Otto Porter SF United States Washington Wizards Georgetown (So.)
Cody Zeller PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats Indiana (So.)
Alex Len C Ukraine Phoenix Suns Maryland (So.)
Nerlens Noel# C United States New Orleans Pelicans (traded to Philadelphia)[A] Kentucky (Fr.)
Ben McLemore SG United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Fr.)
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope SG United States Detroit Pistons Georgia (So.)
Trey Burke PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Utah)[b] Michigan (So.)
C.J. McCollum


That's 27, out of 300.  Less than 10% of the Top 10 draft picks in every year going back 10 years have made me think that tanking for the high pick is a successful strategy.  You can get much better odds at the track.



bob



.

Bob - I think I would've also highlighted Bradley Beal from the 2012 draft. He's a real solid shooting guard and I think will have a terrific career.

k_j_88 wrote:Steve,

I don't think using a pick # is the proper tool for determining how good a player should be, or even how good that player will become.

-Darko Milicic was a #2 pick. Did he play like one?

-Kobe Bryant was drafted at #13. I think he has a handful of rings.


KJ

Point of fact is, anyone drafted at #5 better be a terrific player or your pick was wasted. Granted, a lot of teams blow their drafts. I know WE didn't draft Jeff Green but we gave up a significant piece to get him (just ask cowens). Doesn't change the fact that he was a high pick and we gave up a very valuable asset. Time for him to raise his game.

Actually, Steve, didn't the Celtics draft Jeff Green and include him in the trade for Ray Allen?

Sam

steve3344 wrote:
Point of fact is, anyone drafted at #5 better be a terrific player or your pick was wasted.  Granted, a lot of teams blow their drafts.  I know WE didn't draft Jeff Green but we gave up a significant piece to get him (just ask cowens).  Doesn't change the fact that he was a high pick and we gave up a very valuable asset.  Time for him to raise his game.

This I don't agree with, for a number of reasons:

1. Some drafts are not as deep as others.

2. Every draft will have sleepers somewhere that aren't the top pick.

3. Jeff was a high pick in 2007, yes, but you'll be hard pressed to find a bunch of players better than him from that draft. The best that came out that year were Durant, Noah, Horford, Conley, T. Splitter (2nd round), Thaddeus Young, Marc Gasol (2nd round), and Jeff Green. That's 8 players, and we're supposed to gripe about Jeff being picked 5th? (Side note to remember, the Celtics originally drafted Jeff, but he was part of the trade to bring in Allen.)

4. Ainge traded Perkins because of his injury. His value was significantly diminished at the time. As of 2014, Perkins is not the same impact player in OKK that he was in Boston. Jeff Green has remained about the same level, so who's to say it was that terrible of a trade. Sure, it did shut the championship window a bit earlier, but even if Perkins was retained, we don't know who else could have been injured between then and now. That's dealing too much in what-ifs and not a substantial argument.


KJ

sam wrote:Actually, Steve, didn't the Celtics draft Jeff Green and include him in the trade for Ray Allen?

Sam

Seattle drafted him in 2007 and he played 3 1/2 seasons for them (later to be OKC) before we got him.

steve3344 wrote:

sam wrote:Actually, Steve, didn't the Celtics draft Jeff Green and include him in the trade for Ray Allen?

Sam

Seattle drafted him in 2007 and he played 3 1/2 seasons for them (later to be OKC) before we got him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_draft


Boston drafted him, and he was subsequently traded to Seattle.



KJ

Steve,

Actually, the Celtics drafted him.

Sam

I'm not sure it matters which team drafted him since he was part of a draft day trade for Ray Allen. It would be reasonable that the deal was in place before the draft started and the trigger was pulled when Jeff Green was available at #5. Technically, Danny drafted him. In reality, Seattle drafted him, Danny just did it for them.


bob



.

steve3344 wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:The problem with viewing things through a microscope is that you don't really see the entire picture. That's what's being done here with Jeff Green, whether people choose to admit that or not.

I'm optimistic about his prospects this upcoming season, and I'm sure he'll do better.



KJ

The microscope I use to focus in on Green's game showed me that last year wasn't pretty for him.  And I looked at the whole picture.  Granted, it wasn't pretty for the whole team but other players have been known to have good years on bad teams.  Jeff didn't, that's obvious.  Let's see what happens this year.  It's a critical one for him.  No excuses.  Play hard and play well.  You were a #5 pick.  Play like one.

To nobody in particular, just about high draft picks...


Here's the top 10 picks for the past 10 years.  The ones that, in MY opinion, have gone on to distinguish themselves as we are being led to believe high draft picks should do, are in bold.  In the case of the last 2 drafts or so excuses might be made for why they're not exploding out of the blocks, but for the ones that are more than 3 years old...

2004

Dwight Howard* C United States Orlando Magic Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy (Atlanta, GA) HS Sr.
Emeka Okafor PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats (from L.A. Clippers)[6] Connecticut (Jr.)
Ben Gordon G United Kingdom[7] Chicago Bulls Connecticut (Jr.)
Shaun Livingston PG United States Los Angeles Clippers (from Charlotte)[6] Peoria HS (Peoria, IL) HS Sr.
Devin Harris+ G United States Washington Wizards (traded to Dallas)[8] Wisconsin (Jr.)
Josh Childress G/F United States Atlanta Hawks Stanford (Jr.)
Luol Deng+ SF South Sudan United Kingdom[9]
Phoenix Suns (traded to Chicago)[10] Duke (Fr.)
Rafael Araújo C Brazil Toronto Raptors BYU (Sr.)
Andre Iguodala+ G/F United States Philadelphia 76ers Arizona (So.)
Luke Jackson


2005

Andrew Bogutx C Australia Milwaukee Bucks Utah (So.)
Marvin Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks North Carolina (Fr.)
Deron Williams* G United States Utah Jazz (from Portland)[f] Illinois (Jr.)
Chris Paul* G United States New Orleans Hornets Wake Forest (So.)
Raymond Felton G United States Charlotte Bobcats North Carolina (Jr.)
Martell Webster G/F United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Utah)[f] Seattle Prep. School (Seattle, WA) HSSr.
Charlie Villanueva F United States
Dominican Republic Toronto Raptors Connecticut (So.)
Channing Frye C United States New York Knicks Arizona (Sr.)
Ike Diogu F United States
Nigeria Golden State Warriors Arizona State (Jr.)
Andrew Bynum*


2006

Andrea Bargnani F Italy Toronto Raptors Benetton Treviso (Italy) 1985
LaMarcus Aldridge* F United States Chicago Bulls (from New York, traded to Portland)[o][a] Texas (So.)
Adam Morrison F United States Charlotte Bobcats Gonzaga (Jr.)
Tyrus Thomas F United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Chicago)[a] LSU (Fr.)
Shelden Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks Duke (Sr.)
Brandon Roy* G United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Portland) Washington (Sr.)
Randy Foye G United States Boston Celtics (traded to Minnesota via Portland) Villanova (Sr.)
Rudy Gay F United States Houston Rockets (traded to Memphis)[c] Connecticut (So.)
Patrick O'Bryant C United States Golden State Warriors Bradley (So.)
Mouhamed Sene


2007

Greg Oden C United States Portland Trail Blazers Ohio State (Fr.)
Kevin Durant* SF United States Seattle SuperSonics Texas (Fr.)
Al Horford* C Dominican Republic Atlanta Hawks Florida (Jr.)
Mike Conley, Jr. PG United States Memphis Grizzlies Ohio State (Fr.)
Jeff Green SF United States Boston Celtics (traded to Seattle)[a] Georgetown (Jr.)
Yi Jianlian PF China Milwaukee Bucks Guangdong Southern Tigers (China) (born 1987)[23]a[›]
Corey Brewer SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Florida (Jr.)
Brandan Wright PF United States Charlotte Bobcats (traded to Golden State) North Carolina (Fr.)
Joakim Noah* C Franceb[›] Chicago Bulls (from New York)[l] Florida (Jr.)
Spencer Hawes


2008

Derrick Rose* PG United States Chicago Bulls Memphis (Fr.)
Michael Beasley SF United States Miami Heat Kansas State (Fr.)
O. J. Mayo SG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Memphis)[a] USC (Fr.)
Russell Westbrook* PG United States Seattle SuperSonicsa[›] UCLA (So.)
Kevin Love* PF United States Memphis Grizzlies (traded to Minnesota)[a] UCLA (Fr.)
Danilo Gallinari SF Italy New York Knicks Olimpia Milano (Italy) 1988
Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
Brook Lopez+


2009

Blake Griffin* PF United States Los Angeles Clippers Oklahoma (So.)
Hasheem Thabeet C Tanzania Memphis Grizzlies Connecticut (Jr.)
James Harden* SG United States Oklahoma City Thunder Arizona State (So.)
Tyreke Evans SG United States Sacramento Kings Memphis (Fr.)
Ricky Rubio PG Spain Minnesota Timberwolves (from Washington)[a] DKV Joventut (Spain) (born 1990)[19]
Jonny Flynn PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (So.)
Stephen Curry* PG United States Golden State Warriors Davidson (Jr.)
Jordan Hill PF United States New York Knicks Arizona (Jr.)
DeMar DeRozan+ SG United States Toronto Raptors USC (Fr.)
Brandon Jennings


2010

John Wall+ PG United States Washington Wizards Kentucky (Fr.)
Evan Turner SG United States Philadelphia 76ers Ohio State (Jr.)
Derrick Favors PF United States New Jersey Nets Georgia Tech (Fr.)
Wesley Johnson SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (Jr.)
DeMarcus Cousins C United States Sacramento Kings Kentucky (Fr.)
Ekpe Udoh PF United States Golden State Warriors Baylor (Jr.)
Greg Monroe C United States Detroit Pistons Georgetown (So.)
Al-Farouq Aminu SF United States
Nigeria[n 2] Los Angeles Clippers Wake Forest (So.)
Gordon Hayward SF United States Utah Jazz (from New York via Phoenix)[a] Butler (So.)
Paul George*


2011


Kyrie Irving+ PG United States[n 2] Cleveland Cavaliers (from L.A. Clippers)[a] Duke (Fr.)
Derrick Williams SF/PF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Arizona (So.)
Enes Kanter C Turkey[n 3] Utah Jazz (from New Jersey) Kentucky (Fr.)[n 4]
Tristan Thompson PF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers Texas (Fr.)
Jonas Valančiūnas C Lithuania Toronto Raptors[c] Lietuvos Rytas (Lithuania)
Jan Veselý PF Czech Republic Washington Wizards Partizan (Serbia)
Bismack Biyombo PF DR Congo Sacramento Kings (traded to Charlotte)[A] Fuenlabrada (Spain)
Brandon Knight PG United States Detroit Pistons Kentucky (Fr.)
Kemba Walker PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Connecticut (Jr.)
Jimmer Fredette PG


2012

Anthony Davis+ PF/C United States New Orleans Hornets Kentucky (Fr.)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist SF United States Charlotte Bobcats Kentucky (Fr.)
Bradley Beal SG United States Washington Wizards Florida (Fr.)
Dion Waiters SG United States Cleveland Cavaliers Syracuse (So.)
Thomas Robinson PF United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Jr.)
Damian Lillard* PG United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Brooklyn)[a] Weber St. (Sr.)
Harrison Barnes SF United States Golden State Warriors North Carolina (So.)
Terrence Ross SG United States Toronto Raptors Washington (So.)
Andre Drummond C United States Detroit Pistons Connecticut (Fr.)
Austin Rivers


2013

Anthony Bennett PF/SF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers UNLV (Fr.)
Victor Oladipo SG/PG United States Orlando Magic Indiana (Jr.)
Otto Porter SF United States Washington Wizards Georgetown (So.)
Cody Zeller PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats Indiana (So.)
Alex Len C Ukraine Phoenix Suns Maryland (So.)
Nerlens Noel# C United States New Orleans Pelicans (traded to Philadelphia)[A] Kentucky (Fr.)
Ben McLemore SG United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Fr.)
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope SG United States Detroit Pistons Georgia (So.)
Trey Burke PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Utah)[b] Michigan (So.)
C.J. McCollum


That's 27, out of 300.  Less than 10% of the Top 10 draft picks in every year going back 10 years have made me think that tanking for the high pick is a successful strategy.  You can get much better odds at the track.



bob



.

Bob - I think I would've also highlighted Bradley Beal from the 2012 draft.  He's a real solid shooting guard and I think will have a terrific career.

steve,


Fine. That makes it 28 out of 100. Still a crappy win %.



bob



.