Re: Sports Illustrated NBA Players Rankings

by **Sam** Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:58 pm

Crappy as in crap shoot.

Sam

by **bobheckler** Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:05 pm

bobheckler wrote:
steve3344 wrote:
k_j_88 wrote:The problem with viewing things through a microscope is that you don't really see the entire picture. That's what's being done here with Jeff Green, whether people choose to admit that or not.

I'm optimistic about his prospects this upcoming season, and I'm sure he'll do better.

KJ

The microscope I use to focus in on Green's game showed me that last year wasn't pretty for him. And I looked at the whole picture. Granted, it wasn't pretty for the whole team but other players have been known to have good years on bad teams. Jeff didn't, that's obvious. Let's see what happens this year. It's a critical one for him. No excuses. Play hard and play well. You were a #5 pick. Play like one.

To nobody in particular, just about high draft picks...

Here's the top 10 picks for the past 10 years. The ones that, in MY opinion, have gone on to distinguish themselves as we are being led to believe high draft picks should do, are in bold. In the case of the last 2 drafts or so excuses might be made for why they're not exploding out of the blocks, but for the ones that are more than 3 years old...

2004

Dwight Howard* C United States Orlando Magic Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy (Atlanta, GA) HS Sr.
Emeka Okafor PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats (from L.A. Clippers)[6] Connecticut (Jr.)
Ben Gordon G United Kingdom[7] Chicago Bulls Connecticut (Jr.)
Shaun Livingston PG United States Los Angeles Clippers (from Charlotte)[6] Peoria HS (Peoria, IL) HS Sr.
Devin Harris+ G United States Washington Wizards (traded to Dallas)[8] Wisconsin (Jr.)
Josh Childress G/F United States Atlanta Hawks Stanford (Jr.)
Luol Deng+ SF South Sudan United Kingdom[9]
Phoenix Suns (traded to Chicago)[10] Duke (Fr.)
Rafael Araújo C Brazil Toronto Raptors BYU (Sr.)
Andre Iguodala+ G/F United States Philadelphia 76ers Arizona (So.)
Luke Jackson

2005

Andrew Bogutx C Australia Milwaukee Bucks Utah (So.)
Marvin Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks North Carolina (Fr.)
Deron Williams* G United States Utah Jazz (from Portland)[f] Illinois (Jr.)
Chris Paul* G United States New Orleans Hornets Wake Forest (So.)
Raymond Felton G United States Charlotte Bobcats North Carolina (Jr.)
Martell Webster G/F United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Utah)[f] Seattle Prep. School (Seattle, WA) HSSr.
Charlie Villanueva F United States
Dominican Republic Toronto Raptors Connecticut (So.)
Channing Frye C United States New York Knicks Arizona (Sr.)
Ike Diogu F United States
Nigeria Golden State Warriors Arizona State (Jr.)
Andrew Bynum*

2006

Andrea Bargnani F Italy Toronto Raptors Benetton Treviso (Italy) 1985
LaMarcus Aldridge* F United States Chicago Bulls (from New York, traded to Portland)[o][a] Texas (So.)
Adam Morrison F United States Charlotte Bobcats Gonzaga (Jr.)
Tyrus Thomas F United States Portland Trail Blazers (traded to Chicago)[a] LSU (Fr.)
Shelden Williams F United States Atlanta Hawks Duke (Sr.)
Brandon Roy* G United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Portland) Washington (Sr.)
Randy Foye G United States Boston Celtics (traded to Minnesota via Portland) Villanova (Sr.)
Rudy Gay F United States Houston Rockets (traded to Memphis)[c] Connecticut (So.)
Patrick O'Bryant C United States Golden State Warriors Bradley (So.)
Mouhamed Sene

2007

Greg Oden C United States Portland Trail Blazers Ohio State (Fr.)
Kevin Durant* SF United States Seattle SuperSonics Texas (Fr.)
Al Horford* C Dominican Republic Atlanta Hawks Florida (Jr.)
Mike Conley, Jr. PG United States Memphis Grizzlies Ohio State (Fr.)
Jeff Green SF United States Boston Celtics (traded to Seattle)[a] Georgetown (Jr.)
Yi Jianlian PF China Milwaukee Bucks Guangdong Southern Tigers (China) (born 1987)[23]a[›]
Corey Brewer SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Florida (Jr.)
Brandan Wright PF United States Charlotte Bobcats (traded to Golden State) North Carolina (Fr.)
Joakim Noah* C Franceb[›] Chicago Bulls (from New York)[l] Florida (Jr.)
Spencer Hawes

2008

Derrick Rose* PG United States Chicago Bulls Memphis (Fr.)
Michael Beasley SF United States Miami Heat Kansas State (Fr.)
O. J. Mayo SG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Memphis)[a] USC (Fr.)
Russell Westbrook* PG United States Seattle SuperSonicsa[›] UCLA (So.)
Kevin Love* PF United States Memphis Grizzlies (traded to Minnesota)[a] UCLA (Fr.)
Danilo Gallinari SF Italy New York Knicks Olimpia Milano (Italy) 1988
Eric Gordon SG United States Los Angeles Clippers Indiana (Fr.)
Joe Alexander SF United States Milwaukee Bucks West Virginia (Jr.)
D. J. Augustin PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Texas (So.)
Brook Lopez+

2009

Blake Griffin* PF United States Los Angeles Clippers Oklahoma (So.)
Hasheem Thabeet C Tanzania Memphis Grizzlies Connecticut (Jr.)
James Harden* SG United States Oklahoma City Thunder Arizona State (So.)
Tyreke Evans SG United States Sacramento Kings Memphis (Fr.)
Ricky Rubio PG Spain Minnesota Timberwolves (from Washington)[a] DKV Joventut (Spain) (born 1990)[19]
Jonny Flynn PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (So.)
Stephen Curry* PG United States Golden State Warriors Davidson (Jr.)
Jordan Hill PF United States New York Knicks Arizona (Jr.)
DeMar DeRozan+ SG United States Toronto Raptors USC (Fr.)
Brandon Jennings

2010

John Wall+ PG United States Washington Wizards Kentucky (Fr.)
Evan Turner SG United States Philadelphia 76ers Ohio State (Jr.)
Derrick Favors PF United States New Jersey Nets Georgia Tech (Fr.)
Wesley Johnson SF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Syracuse (Jr.)
DeMarcus Cousins C United States Sacramento Kings Kentucky (Fr.)
Ekpe Udoh PF United States Golden State Warriors Baylor (Jr.)
Greg Monroe C United States Detroit Pistons Georgetown (So.)
Al-Farouq Aminu SF United States
Nigeria[n 2] Los Angeles Clippers Wake Forest (So.)
Gordon Hayward SF United States Utah Jazz (from New York via Phoenix)[a] Butler (So.)
Paul George*

2011

Kyrie Irving+ PG United States[n 2] Cleveland Cavaliers (from L.A. Clippers)[a] Duke (Fr.)
Derrick Williams SF/PF United States Minnesota Timberwolves Arizona (So.)
Enes Kanter C Turkey[n 3] Utah Jazz (from New Jersey) Kentucky (Fr.)[n 4]
Tristan Thompson PF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers Texas (Fr.)
Jonas Valančiūnas C Lithuania Toronto Raptors[c] Lietuvos Rytas (Lithuania)
Jan Veselý PF Czech Republic Washington Wizards Partizan (Serbia)
Bismack Biyombo PF DR Congo Sacramento Kings (traded to Charlotte)[A] Fuenlabrada (Spain)
Brandon Knight PG United States Detroit Pistons Kentucky (Fr.)
Kemba Walker PG United States Charlotte Bobcats Connecticut (Jr.)
Jimmer Fredette PG

2012

Anthony Davis+ PF/C United States New Orleans Hornets Kentucky (Fr.)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist SF United States Charlotte Bobcats Kentucky (Fr.)
Bradley Beal SG United States Washington Wizards Florida (Fr.)
Dion Waiters SG United States Cleveland Cavaliers Syracuse (So.)
Thomas Robinson PF United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Jr.)
Damian Lillard* PG United States Portland Trail Blazers (from Brooklyn)[a] Weber St. (Sr.)
Harrison Barnes SF United States Golden State Warriors North Carolina (So.)
Terrence Ross SG United States Toronto Raptors Washington (So.)
Andre Drummond C United States Detroit Pistons Connecticut (Fr.)
Austin Rivers

2013

Anthony Bennett PF/SF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers UNLV (Fr.)
Victor Oladipo SG/PG United States Orlando Magic Indiana (Jr.)
Otto Porter SF United States Washington Wizards Georgetown (So.)
Cody Zeller PF/C United States Charlotte Bobcats Indiana (So.)
Alex Len C Ukraine Phoenix Suns Maryland (So.)
Nerlens Noel# C United States New Orleans Pelicans (traded to Philadelphia)[A] Kentucky (Fr.)
Ben McLemore SG United States Sacramento Kings Kansas (Fr.)
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope SG United States Detroit Pistons Georgia (So.)
Trey Burke PG United States Minnesota Timberwolves (traded to Utah)[b] Michigan (So.)
C.J. McCollum

That's 27, out of 300. Less than 10% of the Top 10 draft picks in every year going back 10 years have made me think that tanking for the high pick is a successful strategy. You can get much better odds at the track.

bob

.

If we only look at the 1-5 picks above, the number improves to 17 out of 50, instead of 28 out of 100 (both numbers giving Bradley Beal the benefit of the doubt).

34% may be better than 28%, but considering the first 5 teams to draft are getting to choose who is the pick of the litter without having to hope a gem falls to them (like Sully did to us), I don't see it as a major improvement.

bob

.

by **NYCelt** Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:11 pm

sam wrote:Steve,

Actually, the Celtics drafted him.

Sam

Yep, remember that night well. Well, part of it.

Was in San Antonio for an annual advisory board meeting, sitting in front of a bar on the Riverwalk with a few business associates on draft night. Caught the report we had made the trade for Ray Allen and couldn't understand what the heck we were thinking. One of the guys with me was a NY attorney, there to conduct a compliance review and, by his office and home locale, an avid Knicks fan. He gave me this understanding look, said "welcome to the club," and started buying me drinks.

Therefore I remember part of the night well, although I was late for the compliance review that same fellow was conducting the next morning.

I do remember we selected Green for Seattle, and included his rights along with Delonte West in the trade for Allen.

I do not remember, however, how we ended up at Coyote Ugly, doing shots with that girl as she danced on the bar.

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:05 am

k_j_88 wrote:
steve3344 wrote:
Point of fact is, anyone drafted at #5 better be a terrific player or your pick was wasted. Granted, a lot of teams blow their drafts. I know WE didn't draft Jeff Green but we gave up a significant piece to get him (just ask cowens). Doesn't change the fact that he was a high pick and we gave up a very valuable asset. Time for him to raise his game.

This I don't agree with, for a number of reasons:

1. Some drafts are not as deep as others.

2. Every draft will have sleepers somewhere that aren't the top pick.

3. Jeff was a high pick in 2007, yes, but you'll be hard pressed to find a bunch of players better than him from that draft. The best that came out that year were Durant, Noah, Horford, Conley, T. Splitter (2nd round), Thaddeus Young, Marc Gasol (2nd round), and Jeff Green. That's 8 players, and we're supposed to gripe about Jeff being picked 5th? (Side note to remember, the Celtics originally drafted Jeff, but he was part of the trade to bring in Allen.)

4. Ainge traded Perkins because of his injury. His value was significantly diminished at the time. As of 2014, Perkins is not the same impact player in OKK that he was in Boston. Jeff Green has remained about the same level, so who's to say it was that terrible of a trade. Sure, it did shut the championship window a bit earlier, but even if Perkins was retained, we don't know who else could have been injured between then and now. That's dealing too much in what-ifs and not a substantial argument.

KJ

are you kidding me? what has Jeff Green ever done in this league? hes a mediocre player at best who never plays up to his talent level.

Perk was a starting center on a championship team, on a team that never lost a playoff series with all 5 starters intact, he anchored a defense that was the best defense of that decade and was instrumental in his role, a load in the paint, that took Thunder to the Finals in 12. We blew 2 great chances to get that championship in 11 and 12 without Perk. Its obvious without Perks toughness and with the soft Jeff Green and Kristic no way Thunder get near Finals without that trade.

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:32 am

sam wrote:Hey Cow,

Is there any truth to the rumor that you wish the Celtics hadn't traded Perk for Jeff Green?

Honestly, Cow, we get your concern. Truly! We get it. We get it.

Sam

what a shame Sam, the only Celtic team that didn't win multiple titles, guys like KG and Pierce played their hearts out for the franchise as did Rondo and Perk, who were great young role players, they all represented the franchise in a noble way, if we just had alittle more health in 09 and 10....damn.

by **Sam** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:42 am

We get it, Cow. We get it. We get it. We get it. We get it. We get.

Get it?

Sam

by **bobheckler** Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:02 pm

Gerald Wallace 229.

Gerald Wallace
Boston Celtics
SF | Age: 32 | Stats
2013 rank: #149
@CrashWallace

Knicks Memes @KnicksMemes
Follow
The Nets traded the Damian Lillard pick for @CrashWallace. Think they regret it now? #NBARank @ESPNNBA
12:47 PM - 25 Sep 2014

Tyler Zeller - #234

Tyler Zeller
Boston Celtics
C | Age: 24 | Stats
2013 rank: #250
@ZellerTyler

The Legend, Steve Blake, is #221.
Hump is 231.

These people are idiots.

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