Lakers looking to trade D'Angelo Russell

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/lakers-reportedly-willing-trade-dangelo-013048110.html

Doubt anyone would trade a Top 5 pick for him after his somewhat disappointing season and the taping his teammate blunder that made him look like a fool.

As much as this guy may already need a "change of scenery" it will take more than just him to get the Cs #3 pick in my opinion, and I am not sure that the Lakers have much to offer our team in a trade.

Here's an article about the Lakers that says less than any article I've ever read.  Because it so amazingly lacks any possible reason for writing and publishing it, I just had to share it here.  And you'll never get those 45 seconds back!

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/6/19/11972156/lakers-may-make-major-draft-move-which-could-affect-brandon-ingram

Wasn't there an editor that said, "Um no, buddy.  You need a REASON to write something!"  Evidently not.

I doubt they will get a top 5 for him either.  There was quite a bit of surprise the Lakers took him #2 as it was, so trying to market him as if he is a top 5 is also a bit of a stretch especially since he had a memorable rookie season for all the wrong reasons and damn few of the good ones.


17 hours ago – via Twitter MarkG_Medina
Mark Medina: Lakers aren’t expected to have any more workouts for consideration of No. 2 pick. Doesn’t look like Simmons will work out w/ them.


Simmons will not work out for the Lakers?  Either he has a promise from Philly OR his agent is ridiculously sure of himself.  Oh, wait a second, Simmons' agent is Klutch Sports which represents LeBron and is owned by LBJ's good friend Rich Paul.  I believe this is the same guy who organized LeBron's dog-and-pony show in 2010 when he said he was going to "take his talents to South Beach".  Simmons didn't go to the NBA Combine neither.

Wouldn't it be funny if Philly goes with Ingram, the Lakers take Dunn with #2 and so they can trade Russell (or Buddy Hield/Jamal Murray with #2 so they can trade Jordan Clarkson) and we do what we do but we don't take Simmons and now he's all the way down to fourth?  And nobody has worked him out, nobody has measured him, nobody has done a physical on him because his agent held him out of workouts?


bob


.

overated hes not Lebron, he be Lamar Odom maybe

him not working out for these teams is not good, for the love of the game he should be going to show his stuff and get pointers as he can still improve, what he's so good he doesn't need to get better?

cowens/oldschool wrote:overated hes not Lebron, he be Lamar Odom maybe

"hes not lebron."

You could say that about every other player who's ever played, and maybe every other player who will play.

Even if you're a Lebron hater you have to appreciate how unique and gifted this extraordinary player is and grudgingly admit he's a force at both ends of the court the likes of which we've very rarely seen.  If ever.  I went into this series neutral as to who I would root for but find myself rooting for Lebron and the Cavs for several reasons.  First, I'm just getting tired of the Warriors and all the "best ever" talk about that team that I vehemently disagree with.  Let them face a front line of Bird, Parish, McHale and Walton, a defensive guard like DJ to hound Curry and some terrific shooters like Ainge, Wedman, Sichting, etc. to go along with those bigs and see how they would fare in a seven game series.  Or a Laker team with 7'2" Jabbar, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Mychal Thompson, Byron Scott, etc.  Or the Bulls with MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Ron Harper, Kukoc and their suffocating defense.  It's natural for a diehard Celtic fan to want to see a team so slobbered over get knocked off.  ESPECIALLY this GSW team.  

Draymond Green's fixation with opposing players' nutsacks has also led to a further disdain for him personally.  

Curry's constant shimmying after threes is also unappealing (as was Antoine Walker's when he did it for the C's).  I thought Curry had a gripe with at least two fouls last game but the whining was excessive and his mouthpiece fling which hit a son of one of the Cavs owners was comical.  GS caught a huge break last year playing a team that lost both Love and Kyrie (and still got beat twice by Lebron and his D-Leaguers).  Let's see how they fare with Lebron the Locomotive tonight.  Gonna be fascinating. Not rooting hard for Cleveland (I could never do that) but I'll be pulling for them to win it for that city.  Those fans deserve a title after 52 years of not celebrating anything.  Should it happen they will go absolutely nuts.  

Now let's have the Celtics take them out in next year's playoffs.

steve3344 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:overated hes not Lebron, he be Lamar Odom maybe

"hes not lebron."

You could say that about every other player who's ever played, and maybe every other player who will play.

Even if you're a Lebron hater you have to appreciate how unique and gifted this extraordinary player is and grudgingly admit he's a force at both ends of the court the likes of which we've very rarely seen.  If ever.  I went into this series neutral as to who I would root for but find myself rooting for Lebron and the Cavs for several reasons.  First, I'm just getting tired of the Warriors and all the "best ever" talk about that team that I vehemently disagree with.  Let them face a front line of Bird, Parish, McHale and Walton, a defensive guard like DJ to hound Curry and some terrific shooters like Ainge, Wedman, Sichting, etc. to go along with those bigs and see how they would fare in a seven game series.  Or a Laker team with 7'2" Jabbar, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Mychal Thompson, Byron Scott, etc.  Or the Bulls with MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Ron Harper, Kukoc and their suffocating defense.  It's natural for a diehard Celtic fan to want to see a team so slobbered over get knocked off.  ESPECIALLY this GSW team.  

Draymond Green's fixation with opposing players' nutsacks has also led to a further disdain for him personally.  

Curry's constant shimmying after threes is also unappealing (as was Antoine Walker's when he did it for the C's).  I thought Curry had a gripe with at least two fouls last game but the whining was excessive and his mouthpiece fling which hit a son of one of the Cavs owners was comical.  GS caught a huge break last year playing a team that lost both Love and Kyrie (and still got beat twice by Lebron and his D-Leaguers).  Let's see how they fare with Lebron the Locomotive tonight.  Gonna be fascinating. Not rooting hard for Cleveland (I could never do that) but I'll be pulling for them to win it for that city.  Those fans deserve a title after 52 years of not celebrating anything.  Should it happen they will go absolutely nuts.  

Now let's have the Celtics take them out in next year's playoffs.

steve my sentiments EXACTLY, I'm shocked I'm rooting for Lebron....??? WTF ???

Celtics of 80's would have destroyed these guys, 4-1, no problem, the way they carelessly turn the ball over and they go through hot stretches and cold stretches from 3, during the cold stretches, we would rebound the ball and run right on and at them!!, whose gonna stop Bird? nobody, McHale? nobody....this team would be made to order for us, too easy, would be a beautiful clinic of fast break, wide open looks inside and outside and whenever we felt like it a post up game and mid range clinic too.

I think its way to early to judge the 19 year old Russell off of his rookie season. Check out his rookie season compared to other 19 and 20 year olds in their rookie season. His .478 efg rating has him ranked 7th. That's not to shabby when compared to some pretty good players that had lower efg rating as rookies. See below link.

http://bkref.com/tiny/n85mT

swish

cowens/oldschool wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:overated hes not Lebron, he be Lamar Odom maybe

"hes not lebron."

You could say that about every other player who's ever played, and maybe every other player who will play.

Even if you're a Lebron hater you have to appreciate how unique and gifted this extraordinary player is and grudgingly admit he's a force at both ends of the court the likes of which we've very rarely seen.  If ever.  I went into this series neutral as to who I would root for but find myself rooting for Lebron and the Cavs for several reasons.  First, I'm just getting tired of the Warriors and all the "best ever" talk about that team that I vehemently disagree with.  Let them face a front line of Bird, Parish, McHale and Walton, a defensive guard like DJ to hound Curry and some terrific shooters like Ainge, Wedman, Sichting, etc. to go along with those bigs and see how they would fare in a seven game series.  Or a Laker team with 7'2" Jabbar, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Mychal Thompson, Byron Scott, etc.  Or the Bulls with MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Ron Harper, Kukoc and their suffocating defense.  It's natural for a diehard Celtic fan to want to see a team so slobbered over get knocked off.  ESPECIALLY this GSW team.  

Draymond Green's fixation with opposing players' nutsacks has also led to a further disdain for him personally.  

Curry's constant shimmying after threes is also unappealing (as was Antoine Walker's when he did it for the C's).  I thought Curry had a gripe with at least two fouls last game but the whining was excessive and his mouthpiece fling which hit a son of one of the Cavs owners was comical.  GS caught a huge break last year playing a team that lost both Love and Kyrie (and still got beat twice by Lebron and his D-Leaguers).  Let's see how they fare with Lebron the Locomotive tonight.  Gonna be fascinating. Not rooting hard for Cleveland (I could never do that) but I'll be pulling for them to win it for that city.  Those fans deserve a title after 52 years of not celebrating anything.  Should it happen they will go absolutely nuts.  

Now let's have the Celtics take them out in next year's playoffs.

steve my sentiments EXACTLY, I'm shocked I'm rooting for Lebron....??? WTF ???

Celtics of 80's would have destroyed these guys, 4-1, no problem, the way they carelessly turn the ball over and they go through hot stretches and cold stretches from 3, during the cold stretches, we would rebound the ball and run right on and at them!!, whose gonna stop Bird? nobody, McHale? nobody....this team would be made to order for us, too easy, would be a beautiful clinic of fast break, wide open looks inside and outside and whenever we felt like it a post up game and mid range clinic too.

Steve and cowens

I don't know who would win but I think that you greatly under rate the capabilities of the present generation nba when compared to the teams of the 80's. There tends to be a favoritism (bias) towards the teams of one youth - sort of a good old days mentality. Those that watched the Russell years lean toward them as the best and ditto for those that were Bird watchers during the 80's. And in Chicago its all about the Jordan led teams of the 90's and of course in San Antonio the fans make their case for the Spurs. The steady up-ward evolution of the game over the last 66 years as been remarkable and bear in mind the fact that its been 30 years since that great 85-86 Celtic team were the champs.

swish

I too am routing for the Cavs mainly because I tend to route for the underdog.  And I have grown weary of GS.

Anyways LeBron and his Cavs team has a shot at history.

I guess I'll record Game of Thrones.

Dboss

There are different styles at work but let's be real. GS could not stop Jabbar and Magic. And they could not match up with the Celtics front line.

Dboss

dboss wrote:There are different styles at work but let's be real.  GS could not stop Jabbar and Magic.  And they could not match up with the Celtics front line.

Dboss

dboss,

And the slow down style of the Celtics would get run off the court by GSW. And which Celtic would go out to the perimeter to guard all their shooters?


bob


.

Bob, DJ, Danny, and Sichting would guard the perimeter.

Who is gonna check Bird.  Who is gonna check Parish.  Who is gonna check McHale. Who is going to match up with Walton?

If gs is being manhandled by the Cavs it would be worse much worse because Boston would pound those punks relentlessly.  Playoffs are not the regular season.

Dboss

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:There are different styles at work but let's be real.  GS could not stop Jabbar and Magic.  And they could not match up with the Celtics front line.

Dboss

dboss,

And the slow down style of the Celtics would get run off the court by GSW.  And which Celtic would go out to the perimeter to guard all their shooters?


bob


.

bob

Not just out to the perimeter - but out to the 3 point line and beyond. 36.2% of their shots came from 3 point land while the Celts only shot 3 pointers 5.4 % of the time


swish

dboss wrote:Who is gonna check Bird.  Who is gonna check Parish.  Who is gonna check McHale. Who is going to match up with Walton?

If gs is being manhandled by the Cavs it would be worse much worse because Boston would pound those punks relentlessly.  Playoffs are not the regular season.

Dboss

DBoss

There are 2 huge differences between the 2 generations
* The huge differences in the use of the 3 point shot.
The Warriors 2592 attempts and the Celtics 393 attempts.
* The huge differences in the weight of the front court players.
In 1985-86 the league average for front court players was 223.0 lbs .
In 1985-86 the average weight for the Celtic front court players was 217.0.0 lbs
In 2015-16 the league average for front court players was 246.0 lbs.
In 2015 16 the average weight for the Warriors front court players was 242 lbs.
I'm not convinced that the feather weight front court of the 1986 Celtics would fare as well against the heavy weight front court of the 2016 Warriors, as they did against their feather weight opponents of 1986.


swish

swish wrote:

dboss wrote:Who is gonna check Bird.  Who is gonna check Parish.  Who is gonna check McHale. Who is going to match up with Walton?

If gs is being manhandled by the Cavs it would be worse much worse because Boston would pound those punks relentlessly.  Playoffs are not the regular season.

Dboss

DBoss

 There are 2 huge differences between the 2 generations
 * The huge differences in the use of the 3 point shot.
      The Warriors 2592 attempts and the Celtics 393 attempts.
 * The huge differences in the weight of the front court players.
    In 1985-86 the league average for front court players was 223.0 lbs .
    In 1985-86 the average weight for the Celtic front court players was 217.0.0 lbs
    In 2015-16 the league average for front court players was 246.0 lbs.
    In 2015 16 the average weight for the Warriors front court players was 242 lbs.
 I'm not convinced that the feather weight front court of the 1986 Celtics would fare as well against the heavy weight front court of the 2016 Warriors, as they did against their feather weight opponents of 1986.
 

 swish

You mean the heavyweight front court of Bogut, Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes (and now Igoudala) that has started most of the games for GS? If you think Bogut or Ezeli would give the '86 C's much trouble (for the 15-20 minutes per game they play), there were a few of Hall Of Fame frontcourt players in their weight class that Celtic team had to go up against. And didn't have much trouble with.

Per Basketball-Reference.com

Robert Parish = 7'0", 230#
Kevin McHale = 6'10", 210#
Larry Bird = 6'9", 220#
Dennis Johnson = 6'4", 185#
Danny Ainge = 6'4", 175#


Andrew Bogut = 7'0", 260#
Draymond Green = 6'7", 230#
Harrison Barnes = 6'8", 210#
Klay Thompson = 6'7", 205#
Steph Curry = 6'3", 185#

SO,

Bogut is as tall as Parish but 30# heavier.  Who would be pounding whom?

McHale is 3" taller than Green but 20# lighter.  McHale could shoot over him but absolutely could not keep up with him in a footrace.  Couldn't back him down neither.  Green would run him ragged off of high screen cuts.

Bird is only 1" taller than Barnes and 10# heavier.  Greater skill too, but if we're talking about who can out-muscle whom it would be close.  Bird was MUCH bigger than his contemporaries.  Hell, his own player, Paul George is 6'9", 220#, the exact same measurements as Bird in his prime and George plays SF exclusively. Larry played some PF when McHale sat and Wedman came in and that was still considered a big lineup even though Wedman was only 6'7", 215#. That's a SF that is the same height and only 10# heavier than SG Klay Thompson.

Thompson is 3" taller and 20# heavier than DJ.

Ainge has 1" on Curry but Curry has 10# on him.  There's the skill level difference too, just as there is with Bird, but the point I'm making is that slender, not-very-muscular Steph Curry is still 10# heavier than Danny was in his prime and our dual 6'4" back court was considered to be pretty big for its day.


The '86 Celtics LOOKED really big, and they were, for their time.  That's the point.  For their time they were HUGE but compared to today's players?  6'8 and 6'9" SFs are almost normal now.  Barnes doesn't LOOK big compared to other SFs, but he's only 1" shorter than Bird and Bird was HUGE for a SF back then.  We have the Greek Freak and Zinger and Bender and maybe Maker coming in and they're 7'0", with ridiculous wingspans, and can play SF.

I don't think DJ could keep up with Thompson in the open floor.  No way Danny could stay in front of Curry, not with his ballhandling skills and going under a screen is like giving up a layup to him and that screen could be set 25' out.  Green sets a screen for Curry at 30'.  If they switch you have Kevin McHale on Curry out in no-man's land and Ainge on Green.  If they don't switch you've got Green rolling to the hoop on the pnr with 25' of nobody in front of him because McHale is behind him.  Or he pops and shoots from 3 and McHale is FAR away from the basket for any rebound.

Byron Scott shot a very nice 37% from 3 for his career.  Thompson is shooting 42.5% from 3. James Worthy shot 24% from 3.  Barnes is shooting 37.6% from 3.  Bird shot 37.6% from 3, and was thought to be one of the best 3pt shooters of his era.  Now?  38% is almost pedestrian.  Bradley shoots 36% and he isn't considered a great 3pt shooter. The beat goes on.

Who will match up with Walton?  Who will match up with Mo Speights outside?  He isn't a particularly good defender but he is 6'10", 255#.  Bill Walton was 6'11", 210#.  Ben Simmons is 6'10", 240# and is uber-athletic.  He can run like a gazelle, he's only 1" shorter than Walton, 30# heavier and he will play PF, maybe even SF.  And oh, Festus Ezeli is 6'11", 255# with an almost 7'6" wingspan.  No, he doesn't have Walton's talent but he is 45# heavier.  I doubt Bill Walton would be pushing him around much.

Were the '86 Celtics a talented bunch?  Hell freaking yeah they were, they had more future HOFers on that team than almost any other team besides the Russell Celtics, but they just looked big compared to their peers.  By today's standards they are emaciated.  We've been talking about whether Thon Maker has a body that can handle NBA physicality?  If he just puts those 10# back on that he lost in the month between the end of his season and the NBA Combine he'll be 225# again and that would make him only 5# less than Parish and he's only 19 years old.  In today's NBA a 7'0" 230# player might be expected to play some SF.



bob


.

Here's a list of the top 11 rebounders in the NBA in 85-86.
Bill "the Twig" Laimbeer - 7', 240
Charles "Marie Osmond" Barkley - 6'6" , 252
Ralph "Beanpole" Sampson - 7'4", 228
Moses "the Midget" Malone - 6'10", 215
Hakeem "the Anorexic" Olajuwon - 7', 255
Buck "the Obviously Bulemic" Williams - 6'8", 215
Larry "Mr. Mean (actual nickname)" Smith - 6'8", 215
Larry "Eats Like a Bird" Bird - 6'9", 220
James "the Dainty" Donaldson - 7'2", 273
Robert "Puny" Parish - 7', 230

No competition for any modern NBA team.

So the Celts of old never had to contend with any brawny big men. And then there was that 7'2" 215 lb. toothpick pushover they faced, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who proved once and for all that skinny, scrawny  men can't really compete in the NBA.

steve3344 wrote:

swish wrote:

dboss wrote:Who is gonna check Bird.  Who is gonna check Parish.  Who is gonna check McHale. Who is going to match up with Walton?

If gs is being manhandled by the Cavs it would be worse much worse because Boston would pound those punks relentlessly.  Playoffs are not the regular season.

Dboss

DBoss

 There are 2 huge differences between the 2 generations
 * The huge differences in the use of the 3 point shot.
      The Warriors 2592 attempts and the Celtics 393 attempts.
 * The huge differences in the weight of the front court players.
    In 1985-86 the league average for front court players was 223.0 lbs .
    In 1985-86 the average weight for the Celtic front court players was 217.0.0 lbs
    In 2015-16 the league average for front court players was 246.0 lbs.
    In 2015 16 the average weight for the Warriors front court players was 242 lbs.
 I'm not convinced that the feather weight front court of the 1986 Celtics would fare as well against the heavy weight front court of the 2016 Warriors, as they did against their feather weight opponents of 1986.
 

 swish

You mean the heavyweight front court of Bogut, Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes (and now Igoudala) that has started most of the games for GS?  If you think Bogut or Ezeli would give the '86 C's much trouble (for the 15-20 minutes per game they play), there were a few of Hall Of Fame frontcourt players in their weight class that Celtic team had to go up against.  And didn't have much trouble with.  

Steve

No - I mean the front court of Bogut - 260,,, Ezeli - 255,,, Speights - 255,,, Green - 230,,,Barns - 210 - All listed as playing principally as forwards or centers. In 1985-86 only 12 of 120 front court players weighted 246 lbs or more which is the average for front court players in 2016. Of those heavyweights in 86 only 3 were Hall Of Famers.

swish

Getting back to D'Angelo Russell, I doubt the Lakers trade him.
Some games he played great, some crappy.
He came into the league with an entitled attitude.
He knows he needs to put the work in and check his attitude at the door if he will be successful in the league.

worcester wrote:Here's a list of the top 11 rebounders in the NBA in 85-86.
Bill "the Twig" Laimbeer - 7', 240
Charles "Marie Osmond" Barkley - 6'6" , 252
Ralph "Beanpole" Sampson - 7'4", 228
Moses "the Midget" Malone - 6'10", 215
Hakeem "the Anorexic" Olajuwon - 7', 255
Buck "the Obviously Bulemic" Williams - 6'8", 215
Larry "Mr. Mean (actual nickname)" Smith - 6'8", 215
Larry "Eats Like a Bird" Bird - 6'9", 220
James "the Dainty" Donaldson - 7'2", 273
Robert "Puny" Parish - 7', 230

No competition for any modern NBA team.

So the Celts of old never had to contend with any brawny big men. And then there was that 7'2" 215 lb. toothpick pushover they faced, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who proved once and for all that skinny, scrawny  men can't really compete in the NBA.

worcester

Barkley, Olajuwon, and Donaldson were by far the exception rather than the rule. Those 215 pounders that you list as rebounders in 1985-86, were playing at a weight that is quite normal for guards in 2016.

swish

And the Russell Celtics were even smaller than the Bird Celts. and were just plain horrible shooters to boot. By far the best of the 50's and 60's but no match for teams of future generations.

swish

worcester wrote:Here's a list of the top 11 rebounders in the NBA in 85-86.
Bill "the Twig" Laimbeer - 7', 240
Charles "Marie Osmond" Barkley - 6'6" , 252
Ralph "Beanpole" Sampson - 7'4", 228
Moses "the Midget" Malone - 6'10", 215
Hakeem "the Anorexic" Olajuwon - 7', 255
Buck "the Obviously Bulemic" Williams - 6'8", 215
Larry "Mr. Mean (actual nickname)" Smith - 6'8", 215
Larry "Eats Like a Bird" Bird - 6'9", 220
James "the Dainty" Donaldson - 7'2", 273
Robert "Puny" Parish - 7', 230

No competition for any modern NBA team.

So the Celts of old never had to contend with any brawny big men. And then there was that 7'2" 215 lb. toothpick pushover they faced, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who proved once and for all that skinny, scrawny  men can't really compete in the NBA.

Worcester,

So, you're saying you could put together a team consisting solely of All-Stars to compete against the '86 Celtics?


bob


.