Celts want Kyrie

fierce wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:

fierce wrote:Only way Ainge ends up looking like a fool is if Lebron and IT re-sign with the Cavs next summer and the 2018 Nets pick ends up in the top 3.

If Lebron and IT leave and the the Nets pick ends up in the top 3, it's only fair the Celts gave up a top 3 pick for a proven and legit superstar in Kyrie.

The Cavs would end up the fool if Lebron and IT leave next summer and the Nets pick falls out of the top 5.

If LeBron and IT leave and the Nets pick ends up being Bagley or Porter and either one of them turns into one of the new generation of superstars on par with Kawhi or Giannis and Irving leaves the Celtics as a FA after two title-less seasons or has a post age 27 career like Kevin Johnson or Tim Hardaway AFTER signing an absolutely poisonous max extension that costs 100 million a year in lux tax fees alone... well then the Celtics probably end up looking like fools in that scenario as well.

Kyrie is a former #1 pick who's a proven winner.
He's a legit NBA superstar.

It's only fair you risk giving up the chance to get Bagley or Porter for a proven superstar in Kyrie.

Ainge just sacrificed part of the future for the present.

Remember, the Celts still have the 2018 Lakers pick.
It's not like the Celts gave up both the 2018 BKN and LAL picks.

There's only a small window we get the Lakers pick as it has to fall between 2 and 5. Otherwise it turns into Sacto's first round pick in 2019 as I imagine everyone on here knows. I would've rather given them that pick and keep the Nets pick next year. But we'll see how it all turns out. Bottom line, this trade is one of the most high risk trades in memory with no less than our ability to win a championship in the next several years hanging in the balance. Danny has balls of titanium. Hope he is right about this.

A lot of teams in the east have fallen on hard times.
Teams like the Bulls and Pacers, both playoff teams last season, will most likely miss the playoffs this coming season.
And because the star power in the west has greatly increased, there's really a bigger chance the Lakers pick is going to be better.

Law of averages says it's very difficult for the Celts to end up with the #1 pick in two successive drafts.
So the 2 to 5 range is reasonable.

I really find hard it hard to believe the Lakers will fall out of the top 5 this coming season.

OKC has Westbrook and PG13

Minny has added Jim Butler.

The Clips are still better than the Lakers with Blake and DeAndre.

I think the only team in the west worse than the Lakers is the Kings.
And that's because of Zach Randolph's arrest.

Lavar Ball says Lonzo will win 60 games for the Lakers all by himself. And who are we to question that???

Call me sentimental, but cutting the nucleus out of the team and throwing a bunch of virtual strangers together gives me no pleasure as a fan. The Celtics are still nowhere near as good as GSW , the gods only know where rebounds are going to come from, their defense is torn to ribbons, and I include Amir and Jonas in that equation. IT was the heart and sole of the franchise and the Nets pick might well have brought a talented big. As far as I`m concerned, this trade sucks.

jrleftfoot wrote:Call me sentimental, but  cutting the nucleus out of the team and throwing a bunch of virtual strangers together gives me no pleasure as a fan. The Celtics are still nowhere near as good as GSW , the gods only know where rebounds are going to come from, their defense is torn to ribbons, and I include Amir and Jonas in that equation. IT was the heart and sole of the franchise and the Nets pick might well have brought a talented big. As far as I`m concerned, this trade sucks.

I'm in full agreement. Heckler feels the same (as evidenced in a text to me). And cowens texted, "Terrible trade," when we discussed it earlier. And added, "Great trade for the Cavs." Cavs could get a generational big man with that Nets pick next year. Crowder will be a glue guy for them and I think Zizic will be a productive role player. IT, health permitting, is an All-Star, and proved virtually unguardable in the fourth quarter. Cavs came out of a desperate situation smelling like a rose.

jr and steve

It's true that this trade could be a step back.
But if it's a step back to move two steps forward then it will be worth the wait.

Even with a healthy IT and Crowder as the glue guy, the Celts have no chance against the Warriors.
Not now and not in the not so distant future.

The Celts needed an upgrade.
Kyrie is definitely an upgrade over IT.

In 2 or 3 years, guys like Jaylen and Tatum will be ready for a championship run.
We'll just have to wait a little longer.

IT and Crowder have reached their full potential.
Both players are not enough to overcome the star power of the Warriors.

For the Celtics to win another championship, both Jaylen and Tatum, or at least one of them, will have to become elite players.

This is a trade that will payoff for the Celtics in the not so long term, not short term.

I think 2020 will be the year where the Celts will be able to win another championship.

This is very similar to when Ainge took over in 2003.

Toine and Pierce made the east finals in 2002 and Ainge broke up the Toine-Pierce tandem by trading Toine to the Mavs for LaFrentz.

A lot of Celtic fans were not happy when that happened.

I love IT and really amazed at what he achieved last season with the Celtics.
But IT is just not 1st tier NBA star like Curry or Harden.

Kyrie is very close to becoming a 1st tier star player.
It's an upgrade for the Celts.

fierce wrote:This is very similar to when Ainge took over in 2003.

Toine and Pierce made the east finals in 2002 and Ainge broke up the Toine-Pierce tandem by trading Toine to the Mavs for LaFrentz.

A lot of Celtic fans were not happy when that happened.

I love IT and really amazed at what he achieved last season with the Celtics.
But IT is just not 1st tier NBA star like Curry or Harden.

Kyrie is very close to becoming a 1st tier star player.
It's an upgrade for the Celts.

"It's an upgrade for the Celts."


Maybe for next year, although if everyone has the same year they had last year and we have Zizic providing decent big-man production off the bench, I'm not even sure that's the case. For the full effect we need to see what the Nets 2018 pick turns out to be. THAT will determine the wisdom of this trade. Right now, that's an open question. I was REALLY looking forward to getting that pick and watching it play out next season, where it would land and what big was going to be available to us that we could control for years. Now that fun is gone. 

Rebounds? Who needs rebounds in the NBA? And height? That's vastly overrated. Short people have the same amount of arms as tall people! Zizic is going to need to be replaced by another big asap and now everyone knows we're desperate.

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:

fierce wrote:Only way Ainge ends up looking like a fool is if Lebron and IT re-sign with the Cavs next summer and the 2018 Nets pick ends up in the top 3.

If Lebron and IT leave and the the Nets pick ends up in the top 3, it's only fair the Celts gave up a top 3 pick for a proven and legit superstar in Kyrie.

The Cavs would end up the fool if Lebron and IT leave next summer and the Nets pick falls out of the top 5.

If LeBron and IT leave and the Nets pick ends up being Bagley or Porter and either one of them turns into one of the new generation of superstars on par with Kawhi or Giannis and Irving leaves the Celtics as a FA after two title-less seasons or has a post age 27 career like Kevin Johnson or Tim Hardaway AFTER signing an absolutely poisonous max extension that costs 100 million a year in lux tax fees alone... well then the Celtics probably end up looking like fools in that scenario as well.

Kyrie is a former #1 pick who's a proven winner.
He's a legit NBA superstar.

It's only fair you risk giving up the chance to get Bagley or Porter for a proven superstar in Kyrie.

Ainge just sacrificed part of the future for the present.

Remember, the Celts still have the 2018 Lakers pick.
It's not like the Celts gave up both the 2018 BKN and LAL picks.

Ummm, ok? Stating these already known facts as if I'm not aware of them does not change the fact that there is another scenario in which Ainge and the Celtics would end up looking foolish and having egg on their faces even if LeBron and IT leave Cleveland.

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:

fierce wrote:Only way Ainge ends up looking like a fool is if Lebron and IT re-sign with the Cavs next summer and the 2018 Nets pick ends up in the top 3.

If Lebron and IT leave and the the Nets pick ends up in the top 3, it's only fair the Celts gave up a top 3 pick for a proven and legit superstar in Kyrie.

The Cavs would end up the fool if Lebron and IT leave next summer and the Nets pick falls out of the top 5.

If LeBron and IT leave and the Nets pick ends up being Bagley or Porter and either one of them turns into one of the new generation of superstars on par with Kawhi or Giannis and Irving leaves the Celtics as a FA after two title-less seasons or has a post age 27 career like Kevin Johnson or Tim Hardaway AFTER signing an absolutely poisonous max extension that costs 100 million a year in lux tax fees alone... well then the Celtics probably end up looking like fools in that scenario as well.

Kyrie is a former #1 pick who's a proven winner.
He's a legit NBA superstar.

It's only fair you risk giving up the chance to get Bagley or Porter for a proven superstar in Kyrie.

Ainge just sacrificed part of the future for the present.

Remember, the Celts still have the 2018 Lakers pick.
It's not like the Celts gave up both the 2018 BKN and LAL picks.

Obviously Danny is taking a risk regardless and considering Kyrie is an established superstar it takes something to get something so his approach to building a contender at this time seems valid.  

However, if Irving were to walk away after two seasons that do not bring a title in return AND the Nets pick becomes a superstar than Danny has lost this trade. If Irving were to suffer an injury that makes him 75% or less of the player he was ages 22-26 ages 27-31 like Tim Hardaway or Kevin Johnson did (after signing a max extension and watching the Nets pick become a superstar) than Danny and the Celtics lose this trade.

Just the facts. You say the Celtics will have won this deal if LeBron and IT leave Cleveland even if the Nets pick does land top 3 and that simply is not true. The pick must still not lead to a generational superstar AND Kyrie has to stay in Boston while remaining his 4x all-star level best for the next 6-7 years.

This trade is a like when the T'Wolves got 5'10" 28 year old all-star Terrell Brandon and a 1999 1st rd pick (that ended up being Wally Z) for 6'2" 21 year old Stephon Marbury during the '99 season.

'Starbury' was coming off a 17.7p and 8.6 assist second season at age 20 in 1998. Everyone felt he was going to be an Irving type superstar and he pretty much was a slightly less dynamic on offense but slightly better distributor Irving type PG in his 20's as a 22/8 guy on Nets, Suns and Knicks teams that were often dysfunctional (usually b/c of him) and never had a LeBron paired with him. While he was the same age as KG and not 7 years younger like Kyrie and LeBron he was having a hard time being Robin to someone's Batman in Minnesota.

The undersized but big hearted Brandon averaged 15 pts and 8 assists in Minnesota for 3 years before getting hurt and retiring young at 31. Wally was picked 6th, roughly the average of where the Nets pick probably fall next year (3-9) but could have been Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller or Shawn Marion. If the ping pong balls were lucky it could have been Elton Brand or Lamar Odom.

Similar scenario in my opinion.

BleedGreen wrote:This trade is a like when the T'Wolves got 5'10" 28 year old all-star Terrell Brandon and a 1999 1st rd pick (that ended up being Wally Z) for 6'2" 21 year old Stephon Marbury during the '99 season.

'Starbury' was coming off a 17.7p and 8.6 assist second season at age 20 in 1998. Everyone felt he was going to be an Irving type superstar and he pretty much was a slightly less dynamic on offense but slightly better distributor Irving type PG in his 20's as a 22/8 guy on Nets, Suns and Knicks teams that were often dysfunctional (usually b/c of him) and never had a LeBron paired with him. While he was the same age as KG and not 7 years younger like Kyrie and LeBron he was having a hard time being Robin to someone's Batman in Minnesota.

The undersized but big hearted Brandon averaged 15 pts and 8 assists in Minnesota for 3 years before getting hurt and retiring young at 31. Wally was picked 6th, roughly the average of where the Nets pick probably fall next year (3-9) but could have been Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller or Shawn Marion. If the ping pong balls were lucky it could have been Elton Brand or Lamar Odom.

Similar scenario in my opinion.

How can it be similar to the Marbury-Brandon trade when that trade involved 3 teams?

Marbury went to the Nets.

Brandon went to the Wolves.

Cassell went to the Bucks.

You keep saying you know all the facts.
But you say things like the Celts didn't own Thomas' Bird rights.
And now you say this Kyrie for IT trade is similar to that of the Marbury trade in 1999.

You are absolutely wrong in saying this Kyrie trade is similar to that of the Marbury trade because of the fact that what Ainge did is NOT a trade that involved 3 teams.

Total player value Celtics loses on this one, but they become a better team. Eventually you have to make the step and convert good players into great players and picks into real players. Irving is a an upgrade over Thomas both offensively and defensively, Crowder is replaceable and was who he was, he was not going to turn into a star. Zizic is an unknown and didnt look that great in summer league but will probably end up being a solid backup center.

The pick might or might not turn up to be a high pick for possibly a good player but its an unknown. Already had Brown and Tatum (plus whatever lakers pick) that will need their playing time, theres just so many talented but not good/great players you can have at any given time.

One other plus to this trade is that some roster spots got cleared up and also Celtics are now a true contender which means they will eventually be able to get all those freebie good veteran players looking for a chance to win. The bench should not really be a problem once Tatum and Brown steps up and shows we have 3 allstars + two young and very good players.

swedeinestonia wrote:Total player value Celtics loses on this one, but they become a better team. Eventually you have to make the step and convert good players into great players and picks into real players. Irving is a an upgrade over Thomas both offensively and defensively, Crowder is replaceable and was who he was, he was not going to turn into a star. Zizic is an unknown and didnt look that great in summer league but will probably end up being a solid backup center.

The pick might or might not turn up to be a high pick for possibly a good player but its an unknown. Already had Brown and Tatum (plus whatever lakers pick) that will need their playing time, theres just so many talented but not good/great players you can have at any given time.

One other plus to this trade is that some roster spots got cleared up and also Celtics are now a true contender which means they will eventually be able to get all those freebie good veteran players looking for a chance to win. The bench should not really be a problem once Tatum and Brown steps up and shows we have 3 allstars + two young and very good players.

Agree.

That's why saying that the Celts could end up the fool if Kyrie leaves after 2 years is totally absurd.

I mean Kyrie has not even played a single game for the Celts and he's already leaving?

Hilarious!

Woke up this AM and realized that I was not dreaming.  Danny pulled off a very significant trade yesterday.

The only part to this that has me on edge is the 2018 Nets Pick.  We do not know where that pick will fall.  Danny has been playing the lotto for a few years and finally hit the jackpot because the Nets had the worse record and the odds favored us getting that pick.

Although it is unlikely that the Nets will be the worse team in the league this year,  no one knows what their record will be.  

For several years we have been waiting for Danny to pull off a bigtime deal  when the right situation came along.  Calls for moving assets to get a superstar have periodically found its' way into our discussions.

So the last Golden Egg is gone but in return the Celtics have acquired a 25 year old player that is virtually unstoppable.

Kyrie wants to be here and waived his trade kicker to make it happen.

The Celtics made the right move because IT is 3 years older, 1/2 foot shorter and expecting the Brinks truck to drop off a load of cash.  I did not think he was going to get a max deal from Boston.  Last year he had a historically amazing year but he has never been a 28 PPG scorer and is unlikely to put those numbers up repeatedly.  He spends half of his time picking himself up off the floor and it seems clear to me that he cannot sustain the hits that he takes.  I love the little guy and it is sad to see him get traded but it is still a good move by the Celtics.

Two years ago I suggested that Boston would need an upgrade at the 3.  After drafting Brown, Tatum, Semi and signing Hayward, Crowder was the most expendable playes.

I watched Zizic in summer league and quite frankly I was not impressed.  He really does not fit the pace and space style.

So there you have it.  The only thing that makes me winch was the draft pick however the Celtics still have a boatload of picks moving forward.  If we do not get the Lakers pick next year we will get the better of Philly's pick or that of Sacramento in 2019.

The Celtics are going to be a very different team this year although the style will not change.

Jaylen Brown will be a starter and Tatum will have an opportunity to play big minutes.  Semi will also have a chance to make us forget about Crowder.  Smart and Rozier will be critical leftovers from the team that finished #1.

Morris is a top perimeter defender at the 4 and has traditionally played Lebron tough.  Size and strength matches up

The Celtics will be younger faster, more athletic and more talented from this point on.  It will take a while for the team to gel but Brad Stevens has a knack for integrating new players into his system relatively quickly.  

In sum, the trade gets a thumbs up by me despite my obsession with the Golden Eggs.

dboss

Dboss,

I feel the same way. If the pick was protected, or the Lakers , I would have no concerns at all.

Pete

I'm torn on this deal.

On the one hand, Kyrie is younger, taller, under team control for a couple of years, and a better overall player than IT for their respective careers.

IT had a great 1.5 years with us, but was a defensive liability, is currently injured and could require major surgery in the future, and was about to cost a lot more money. It's also possible that the Stevens factor made him out to be a better player than he would be on another team, as he never approached what he was for the Celtics in any of his other stops.

Crowder was a good player for us, but is the odd man out given the Hayward signing and drafting Brown and Tatum. It makes sense to trade him and give him an opportunity to play somewhere else rather than ride the bench here.

Zizic never played in the NBA, and isn't a big deal, though we will need to sign another big at the end of the bench.

Including the Nets pick is the worst part of this. Given that Irving had to have been persona non grata in Cleveland after demanding a trade, I'm surprised that Danny had to include that pick, rather than the protected Lakers pick. I assume he thinks that the improved Nets in a weakened Eastern conference will not end up at the bottom of the draft pack again.

My biggest concern is that Crowder and IT were really the heart of this team. They both obviously wanted to be here, brought 100% every night, and seemed to inspire their teammates. While Irving and Hayward are better individual players, not sure who is going to step up into that team leader role. It will be interesting to see how Brad brings an essentially new team together and how long it takes them to gel.

Zizic is slow afoot and not a good fit for Brad's type of up tempo game. He was way too slow and usually last man up court during summer league. So seeing him go is no big deal.

IT, BIG HEART will miss his positive attitude but as I said from the beginning, he was a liability on defense - guarding and getting rebounds. Besides at 28 years old, his body is taking a beating with his drives to the hoop and getting knocked to the floor, somewhere down the line his body will breakdown. Perhaps it already started with the hip injury.

Nets draft choice...............would like to have seen what we would have gotten, but the Nets will be a better team this year........so who knows where their pick winds up being.

Crowder, he has maxed out as a player. Good defense, good shooter.....but not great in either category...........he can be replaced by Brown or Tatem at any time.

STILL NEED A BIG!!!!!!!!!

112288

steve3344 wrote:

jrleftfoot wrote:Call me sentimental, but  cutting the nucleus out of the team and throwing a bunch of virtual strangers together gives me no pleasure as a fan. The Celtics are still nowhere near as good as GSW , the gods only know where rebounds are going to come from, their defense is torn to ribbons, and I include Amir and Jonas in that equation. IT was the heart and sole of the franchise and the Nets pick might well have brought a talented big. As far as I`m concerned, this trade sucks.

I'm in full agreement. Heckler feels the same (as evidenced in a text to me). And cowens texted, "Terrible trade," when we discussed it earlier. And added, "Great trade for the Cavs." Cavs could get a generational big man with that Nets pick next year. Crowder will be a glue guy for them and I think Zizic will be a productive role player. IT, health permitting, is an All-Star, and proved virtually unguardable in the fourth quarter. Cavs came out of a desperate situation smelling like a rose.

Zizic is going to be a banger that surprises people, was looking forward to his development and hes a legit 5 that could have let Horford play the 4. He will help Cavs inside and be their version of Perk.

Dboss,
I like your very optimistic outlook. I'm more reserved.
I don't care much about BKN pick. As we know picks by themselves don't play 82 games and win in the playoffs. And the main goal, the only goal, I'd say, is #18. All picks, trades, etc are subjects to it.
So, Danny put all his bets on two "cards": 1) KI successfully integrates into the team and extends his stay in Boston beyond the 2 years remaining on his contract, and 2) Tatum and JB are star level (all symptoms are there) players which, IMO, will allow Celtics with the core of KI, GH, JT and JB to compete with GSW in 2-3 years.
I hope DA has a winning hand, I really do.

AK

sinus007 wrote:Dboss,
I like your very optimistic outlook. I'm more reserved.
I don't care much about BKN pick. As we know picks by themselves don't play 82 games and win in the playoffs. And the main goal, the only goal, I'd say, is #18. All picks, trades, etc are subjects to it.
So, Danny put all his bets on two "cards": 1) KI successfully integrates into the team and extends his stay in Boston beyond the 2 years remaining on his contract, and 2) Tatum and JB are star level (all symptoms are there) players which, IMO, will allow Celtics with the core of KI, GH, JT and JB to compete with GSW in 2-3 years.
I hope DA has a winning hand, I really do.

AK

When you have Uncle Drew on your team, it's a "winning hand!"

Fierce,
Pardon my ignorance. Who's Uncle Drew?

AK

sinus007 wrote:Fierce,
Pardon my ignorance. Who's Uncle Drew?

AK

Kyrie Irving to Star in ‘Uncle Drew’ Movie
Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/nba/kyrie-irving-uncle-drew-movie/#5OxboL0pJQFCpX8g.99

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DnKOc6FISU

bob


.

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:This trade is a like when the T'Wolves got 5'10" 28 year old all-star Terrell Brandon and a 1999 1st rd pick (that ended up being Wally Z) for 6'2" 21 year old Stephon Marbury during the '99 season.

'Starbury' was coming off a 17.7p and 8.6 assist second season at age 20 in 1998. Everyone felt he was going to be an Irving type superstar and he pretty much was a slightly less dynamic on offense but slightly better distributor Irving type PG in his 20's as a 22/8 guy on Nets, Suns and Knicks teams that were often dysfunctional (usually b/c of him) and never had a LeBron paired with him. While he was the same age as KG and not 7 years younger like Kyrie and LeBron he was having a hard time being Robin to someone's Batman in Minnesota.

The undersized but big hearted Brandon averaged 15 pts and 8 assists in Minnesota for 3 years before getting hurt and retiring young at 31. Wally was picked 6th, roughly the average of where the Nets pick probably fall next year (3-9) but could have been Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller or Shawn Marion. If the ping pong balls were lucky it could have been Elton Brand or Lamar Odom.

Similar scenario in my opinion.

How can it be similar to the Marbury-Brandon trade when that trade involved 3 teams?

Marbury went to the Nets.

Brandon went to the Wolves.

Cassell went to the Bucks.

You keep saying you know all the facts.
But you say things like the Celts didn't own Thomas' Bird rights.
And now you say this Kyrie for IT trade is similar to that of the Marbury trade in 1999.

You are absolutely wrong in saying this Kyrie trade is similar to that of the Marbury trade because of the fact that what Ainge did is NOT a trade that involved 3 teams.

Wow how childish you sound.

You were absolutely wrong that the Celtics needed to include Morris to make this trade work or that they had five SF's when Stevens does not even use that term to describe his players/roster.

And a trade where one team got a bigger, younger, flashier PG who wanted to escape the shadow of the superstar he played with for an undersized 28 year old PG and a lotto pick the following year is VERY much like this one regardless of the fact that a 3rd team was involved. Yeesh. Are you serious?

Your reaction to being wrong on this board b/c you impulsively post your opinion as fact when it clearly is not is absurd. You are like Trump pounding his chest while he tweets. Learn some humility and to admit your mistakes and not express your opinion as fact young man. It will go a long way here and in life. You have broken the convivial motto of this board multiple times in the last 24 hours alone. I told you once to relax. Please do so.

swedeinestonia wrote:Total player value Celtics loses on this one, but they become a better team. Eventually you have to make the step and convert good players into great players and picks into real players. Irving is a an upgrade over Thomas both offensively and defensively, Crowder is replaceable and was who he was, he was not going to turn into a star. Zizic is an unknown and didnt look that great in summer league but will probably end up being a solid backup center.

The pick might or might not turn up to be a high pick for possibly a good player but its an unknown. Already had Brown and Tatum (plus whatever lakers pick) that will need their playing time, theres just so many talented but not good/great players you can have at any given time.

One other plus to this trade is that some roster spots got cleared up and also Celtics are now a true contender which means they will eventually be able to get all those freebie good veteran players looking for a chance to win. The bench should not really be a problem once Tatum and Brown steps up and shows we have 3 allstars + two young and very good players.

I am in favor of this trade. I am not in favor of people who say the following scenario would not mean the Celtics lost the trade come 2020.

If Kyrie leaves in free agency in 2 years with 0 titles here AND (wow let's not forget this part) the Nets pick lands a generational superstar on par with Giannis or Kawhi, then the Celtics will 100% feel foolish and have lost the trade. They took a chance and missed and the franchise will still be in ok shape but will really have missed out on being special the entire decade of the 2020's.

That is unlikely to happen. But saying it might and that Boston would lose the trade if it does is just the truth.

BleedGreen wrote:

fierce wrote:

BleedGreen wrote:This trade is a like when the T'Wolves got 5'10" 28 year old all-star Terrell Brandon and a 1999 1st rd pick (that ended up being Wally Z) for 6'2" 21 year old Stephon Marbury during the '99 season.

'Starbury' was coming off a 17.7p and 8.6 assist second season at age 20 in 1998. Everyone felt he was going to be an Irving type superstar and he pretty much was a slightly less dynamic on offense but slightly better distributor Irving type PG in his 20's as a 22/8 guy on Nets, Suns and Knicks teams that were often dysfunctional (usually b/c of him) and never had a LeBron paired with him. While he was the same age as KG and not 7 years younger like Kyrie and LeBron he was having a hard time being Robin to someone's Batman in Minnesota.

The undersized but big hearted Brandon averaged 15 pts and 8 assists in Minnesota for 3 years before getting hurt and retiring young at 31. Wally was picked 6th, roughly the average of where the Nets pick probably fall next year (3-9) but could have been Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller or Shawn Marion. If the ping pong balls were lucky it could have been Elton Brand or Lamar Odom.

Similar scenario in my opinion.

How can it be similar to the Marbury-Brandon trade when that trade involved 3 teams?

Marbury went to the Nets.

Brandon went to the Wolves.

Cassell went to the Bucks.

You keep saying you know all the facts.
But you say things like the Celts didn't own Thomas' Bird rights.
And now you say this Kyrie for IT trade is similar to that of the Marbury trade in 1999.

You are absolutely wrong in saying this Kyrie trade is similar to that of the Marbury trade because of the fact that what Ainge did is NOT a trade that involved 3 teams.

Wow how childish you sound.

You were absolutely wrong that the Celtics needed to include Morris to make this trade work or that they had five SF's when Stevens does not even use that term to describe his players/roster.  

And a trade where one team got a bigger, younger, flashier PG who wanted to escape the shadow of the superstar he played with for an undersized 28 year old PG and a lotto pick the following year is VERY much like this one regardless of the fact that a 3rd team was involved. Yeesh. Are you serious?

Your reaction to being wrong on this board b/c you impulsively post your opinion as fact when it clearly is not is absurd. You are like Trump pounding his chest while he tweets. Learn some humility and to admit your mistakes and not express your opinion as fact young man. It will go a long way here and in life. You have broken the convivial motto of this board multiple times in the last 24 hours alone. I told you once to relax. Please do so.

Please don't say thing like I'm absolutely wrong about including Morris in the trade because you yourself said Rozier would be included in the trade.

You're the one who needs to learn about humility.

You're the one who keeps saying you know all the facts and you don't have to be reminded of the facts.

I'm not the one who needs to relax because I'm not the one posting short stories.
Look at your posts, it's like you love listening to yourself talk.

And please don't give me life lessons.

You're just not credible.

I mean the mere fact you didn't know about the Celts owning Thomas' Bird rights is an indication that you know more about the Patriots than basketball.