Jaylen and Jayson

So dboss, Jaylen scored 20 in 17.07% of regular season games Last year and 50% in games this year. I'd call that Siakam like progress.

Worcester

He is clearly making a statement. He is averaging 1.1 ppg less than Jason. These two young studs are special.

Indeed. And YOUNG!

mrkleen09 wrote:

kdp59 wrote:so, if understand correctly.....

Jaylen may be Jimmy Butler or better.

Jason may be Paul George or better.

not too bad in wing oriented NBA, I would say.

Hard to say, but in comparing both sets of players at the same age - those predictions sound very possible.

Paul George vs Jayson Tatum at 21




Jimmy Butler vs Jaylen Brown at 23

Excellent Kleen, this confirms these 2 prized possessions are way ahead of schedule....

KyleCleric wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Worse totally agree with every point, even when Jayson is not in an elite zone, he still does so many 2 way things that help us on the floor. I have no doubt his efficiency in all areas we improve and keep on improving as my eyes see the talent/foundation that is there, and he’s 21.

I was surprised after the game that he’d had a tough shooting game. He seemed so locked in defensively and on the boards that I just didn’t notice.

He’s really shown me toughness playing a lot of 4 and going after it!!!

worcester wrote:In two years Tacko will be untouchable too, and not just because no one can reach up to him.

Hope you haven’t given up on Robert Williams, he has loads of talent and attributes for his position as a 6’10” big as Jaylen has for a 6’7” wing. If he can stay healthy and keep working/adding to his game....so exciting to have such a young study team, Danny did good.

He did get 10 rb vs. Miami.

worcester wrote:He did get 10 rb vs. Miami.

.

I know he’s bouncy and long, very light on his feet for a big. If he starts rebounding like he could, like his talent level....WOW

He could easily be a highlight reel type player, keep working and working and working kid.

True Cow, and these are his first real NBA minutes this season. If only he woukd keep progressing...

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 6 hours ago
Since Gordon Hayward went down, Jaylen Brown has led the #Celtics in PPG (21.1) and RPG (7.2). A closer look at his strengthening All-Star case at the quarter pole of the NBA season:
https://t.co/1BNJysp2gq


.
bob


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worcester wrote:True Cow, and these are his first real NBA minutes this season. If only he woukd keep progressing...

I don’t care about his offense, anything there is all gravy, if he can get/earn enough minutes to get 10+ boards a game at some point, with all our other pieces that would be all we would need with his defense from him right now to contend.

bobheckler wrote:Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 6 hours ago
Since Gordon Hayward went down, Jaylen Brown has led the #Celtics in PPG (21.1) and RPG (7.2). A closer look at his strengthening All-Star case at the quarter pole of the NBA season:
https://t.co/1BNJysp2gq


.
bob


.

Nice read. What a great collection of players on this team.

Hard work pays off.

RW has a future in Boston. He has a lot of things to work on but he is still very young.

He needs to hit the weights and work on his stamina.

Free throw shooting, elbow jumpers and maybe a jump hook in the lane.

Repetition will yield better results. It is very important that Brad gets him in the game. This year 16 to 18 mpg seems about right.

dboss wrote:If you look at the top 12 players in the East,  Jason is # 7 in scoring and Jaylen is #11.  I think they are making a strong case for an allstar slot

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/conference/5/table/offensive/sort/avgPoints/dir/desc

First, I love both these guys.  Tremendous Young talent.  You have to give guys 3-5 years to develop.  As mrkleen09 pointed out, these two are ahead of schedule.

Celtics fans have often looked at the two of them and have made the assumption that Jason is the better player.  He has a smoothness about his game from day one.  Jaylen came in as a tremendous athlete with more flaws than Jason.  Jason has been the darling of Celtics fans and has been a starter from day one.  Jaylen became a casualty of too much depth last year and had to take a back seat to Jason.  Jaylen had a big jump from year one to year 2.  It took a high level of maturity and discipline for him to accept a reduced role in his 3rd year.

Before the season started I hoped that all 3 of our wings would get the minutes and shot opportunities that they did not have last year.

Bingo!

Walker has gone from a 20.5 FGA guy down to a 17.3 FGA guy.

Right now JT leads the team in FGA at 18.7.

I could make an argument that his shot attempts are too high given his offensive efficiency.  Each of the last 3 years as he takes more shots his shooting percentage has gone down.  His scoring efficiency has declined.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum

The most efficient scorer at the wing position (in absence of GH) is Jaylen Brown.  Maybe he should be getting more shots up and maybe Jason should be taking a few less.

Scoring however is just one aspect of their games.  I see almost a mirror image of the two of them in terms of their multi-positional value on defense and how both of them are becoming better all around players.

At this point I think both of them are untradeable.  They are building blocks.  The 3 guys on this team that should be untouchable are the J's and Marcus Smart.

One thing I have noticed about Jayson recently is his ball handling and has made some very creative assists. I know he has caught a lot of flack over his passing, but it is improving game by game. His FG% will go up a lot when he starts using his left hand to finish layups. As great as he played tonight against the Nuggets, he missed two very makeable layups, on with the left hand.
I preached all year last year that Kyrie was stunting both Brown and Tatum. (a lot a time getting ripped about Kyrie having such a great year) I have seen both guys really improve so much since the start of this year. Imagine if they hadn't had two years of Kyrie how much further along they would be.

Since that Knick game, these 2 guys have really kicked ass and taken it up a notch. As bob h pointed out karmically having 2 young studs like this so makes up for the loss of Len Bias....

With a healthy Bias that team gets at a minimum 5 titles, 87 and 88.

Cow

Bias is far removed from this team.  PP made up for the loss of Bias during the last rebuild and title.

The J's are the Golden Eggs!  A young dynamic duo of pure basketball talent.  They are the type of dudes that some other lucky team seems to draft while Celtics fan wish that we could be so blessed.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/12/like-fire-ice-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-justify-danny-ainges-non-trades-john-karalis.html



’Like Fire & Ice,’ Boston Celtics’ Jayson Tatum & Jaylen Brown justify Danny Ainge’s non-trades |


John Karalis
Updated Dec 07, 2019;Posted Dec 07, 2019




Boston Celtics forward Jayson Tatum (0) drives against Denver Nuggets forward Juan Hernangomez (41) in the second half of an NBA basketball game, Friday, Dec. 6, 2019, in Boston. (AP Photo/Elise Amendola)



By John Karalis | JKaralis@masslive.com



BOSTON - Jayson Tatum was supposed to be a New Orleans Pelican.

Jaylen Brown was supposed to be an Indiana Pacer. Or a San Antonio Spur.

Danny Ainge took his fair share of criticism for passing up chances to trade his young wings. One of them was a key to getting Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, or Anthony Davis. For various reasons, Ainge never pulled the trigger. Sure, he might have been willing to if certain circumstances were different, but they weren’t. So he didn’t.


Part of why Tatum and Brown are still Celtics is the belief that they weren’t just trade bait; that while there’s always a right deal for nearly anyone, there was enough promise in these players that they weren’t going to be traded if the situation wasn’t exactly right.

Ainge’s patience is now being rewarded, and the vision for what each player could be is becoming clearer. The realization of potential is starting to materialize, as is the justification for Ainge’s hesitance to pull the trade trigger.

“Those guys are still getting better,” Brad Stevens said after the Celtics blowout win over Denver, their ninth straight at home to start the season. “They are really enjoying playing together and figuring it out with the rest of our team… Those two guys in particular have done a really good job in this early part of the season, just focusing on making the right plays.”


Improvement isn’t linear. There are bumps along the way for every player. That was certainly true after a season where internal and external pressures nearly derailed more than a season. The path to improvement is how a player bounces back from the pitfalls along the way.

“It feels good,” said Marcus Smart, the longest-tenured Celtic. “I think everybody sees the steps that they’ve taken towards becoming better basketball players, and it shows.”

It especially showed in a pivotal third quarter stretch against Denver where Boston’s lead ballooned from nine to 21 in a heartbeat. On back to back plays, Tatum found Brown for a vicious dunk in transition, and then hit a step-back 3-pointer that sent him skipping down the sidelines in celebration.

“I guess we feed off each other,” Brown said. “Kind of different games, kind of opposite, but it makes sense, like Fire and Ice. We just try to come out and be aggressive.”


Their aggressiveness showed itself in 47 combined points on about 53 percent combined shooting against Denver. It’s their lowest combined point total of their past three games (50 points vs. Miami, 58 points vs. New York).

“It’s a lot of fun,” Tatum said. “When we’re playing hard, playing together, making the right plays and he’s doing things like that, it’s hard not to get excited.”

Both Brown and Tatum are showing growth where it might not have been expected. They’re taking simultaneous steps forward, adding the their own games in ways that benefits not just themselves, but also their teammates. There is more vision, there is more recognition, and there is more respect for one another.

“It’s developed a lot I guess. At first it was like we was cool but at the same time we was totally different so we kind of just did our own things," Brown said. "But as we’ve gotten older it kind of just made sense.”


Tatum added that their relationship has “grown a lot. I mean, we spend so much time together, obviously, over the course of two-and-a-half seasons. We’ve been in some tough battles and we trust each other. I know what he’s capable of and you know what he’s going to bring to the table. You know what I’m going to bring to the table, especially in the toughest times. I (would) go to war with him any day.”

Unless someone has the power to travel through parallel universes, we’ll never know how the decisions to keep Brown and Tatum instead of include them in a deal for an established star would work out. Sure, Boston might have won another championship, but it all might have fallen apart, too.

We also don’t know how this is going to work out, either. Things can go sideways in a hurry in professional sports. An all-out victory lap right now could be he equivalent of Nick Young celebrating a 3 that didn’t fall.

What we do know is that the faith in Tatum and Brown was not unwarranted. They are showing why Ainge wasn’t just going to give them up in scenarios where a star wasn’t going to make a long-term commitment. The belief that they could, in fact, develop into star players in their own right makes more sense now.


Will they? That’s mostly up to them at this point. There is still work to be done. Resting on laurels now would be hanging the painting before it’s dry.

Can they?

Watching how they’ve played this season, especially over the last week, the answer is clearly yes.


bob


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I like Jaylen's recent quote that they are like fire and ice. Jaylen is all power, strength, and athleticism while Jayson is more about skill and grace (although, let's be real, Tatum has plentyof athleticism and Brown plenty of skill). Also, it provides a great literary analogy for the Tatum/Brown Celtics era - The Song of Ice and Fire. Hope GRRM is a Celtics fan (for the board members who might have real lives, GRRM is George R.R. Martin, the guy who wrote game of thrones, which is part of a series of books he calls the Song of Ice and Fire).

"Fire and Ice"! I'm a big fan of Pat Benatar and of the 2 Jay's.

Shamrock1000 wrote:I like Jaylen's recent quote that they are like fire and ice. Jaylen is all power, strength, and athleticism while Jayson is more about skill and grace (although, let's be real, Tatum has plentyof athleticism and Brown plenty of skill). Also, it provides a great literary analogy for the Tatum/Brown Celtics era - The Song of Ice and Fire. Hope GRRM is a Celtics fan (for the board members who might have real lives, GRRM is George R.R. Martin, the guy who wrote game of thrones, which is part of a series of books he calls the Song of Ice and Fire).

I would say Jaylen has more ferocity and raw speed, Jayson also has an abundance of speed and quickness, he also has more grace and greater variety of moves then Jaylen, but Jaylen can use his strength in ways that Jayson just can’t right now, like that bullyball move right at Adebayo. I look at Jaylen as more of a Lebron/Kawhi type of physical power player, Jayson is more a Durant or Alex English type. Amazing how well they are defending anyone in the 1-4 range this year. Jaylen just goes after anyone on the perimeter and can come down and crash the boards and Jayson has really showed me alot of toughness I didn’t know he had in mixing it up rebounding and defending the 4’s.

dboss wrote:Cow

Bias is far removed from this team.  PP made up for the loss of Bias during the last rebuild and title.

The J's are the Golden Eggs!  A young dynamic duo of pure basketball talent.  They are the type of dudes that some other lucky team seems to draft while Celtics fan wish that we could be so blessed.

Love Paul Pierce, love his toughness and big shot take over the game ability....still love the way he kicked Kobe’s ass in 08 Finals.

My son and I have discussed in detail imagine how much greater Pierce could have been if he had Jaylen’s raw athleticism with his skill and craftiness.

I saw a blogger on Celticsblog describe the two Js as "Trouble-0-7".

I like it.


bob


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"Trouble-0-7" makes me laugh. What a perfect title for our two J's.

If putting the ball in the hole, defending and rebounding means anything in awarding an Allstar selection, the J's are already there. They are going to get even better.

Celtics fans are being blown away by the level of their development. The media however is still not giving Jaylen his due.

Both of them are so good you could almost see a singularity to their games in what they can do.

I think Jayson will continue to fill out and he has the body type to be much more physical and assertive than KD or Alex English. Having said that, if he can score without having to crash into bodies 40x a night, his game will be more consistent and his body will hold up over a longer period of time.

To top it all off, they both seem to be good kids - and good people, so I see nothing but positive upside here. Exciting time to be a Celtics fan.