POST GAME CHICAGO BULLS

Celtics Wrap: Kemba Walker’s Season-High Not Enough In Loss Vs. Bulls

NESN by Sean T. McGuire

Kemba Walker scored a season-high 33 points while Evan Fournier chipped in a solid night on the offensive end, but the shorthanded Boston Celtics fell to the Chicago Bills 121-99 at United Center on Friday.

Boston cut what was once a 21-point third-quarter lead to just eight points in the fourth, but Chicago used a crunch-time run to pull away.

Walker shot 10-for-21 with six 3-pointers in 35 minutes. Fournier scored 15 of his 17 points in the first-half while playing 36 minutes. Jayson Tatum didn’t offer much on the offensive end as he shot 3-for-15 and concluded with nine points.

On a night the Celtics were already without Jaylen Brown and Robert Williams, that seemed to be a key difference.

Boston falls to 35-32 on the season while Chicago improves to 28-39.

Here’s how it went down:

STARTING FIVE
PG: Kemba Walker
SG: Marcus Smart
SF: Evan Fournier
PF: Jayson Tatum
C: Tristan Thompson



FOURNIER LEADS FIRST
Fournier started off hot by hitting each of his first three shots from the field in helping Boston to a 11-9 lead 4:26 into the contest.

And Fournier kept that going throughout the opening quarter by hitting each of his first five shots from the field including a trio of 3-pointers. He scored 13 points in the first quarter.


Walker chipped in in points of his own as he shot 3-for-6 in the quarter.


Boston’s ball movement led to seven first-quarter assists as the Celtics shot 46 percent (11-for-24) from the field. Tatum was 1-for-5 with two points in the quarter.

Still, the Bulls held a 30-28 lead after the first quarter.

BULLS GO ON A RUN
The Celtics didn’t get much in the scoring column from Tatum in the first half (1-for-7) all while the Bulls put together a run late in the quarter with three players — Nikola Vucevic (12), Coby White (12) and Zach LaVine (10) — scoring double figures.

Boston shot 8-for-23 in the quarter and 40 percent (19-for-47) in the half.

Thompson, though, found himself making some plays on both ends.

Fournier was held to just two points in the quarter while Walker scored six as both recorded 15 in the first half.

The Bulls, though, were able to extend their lead to as much as 17 before taking a 60-46 at the half.

MORE BULLS
The Celtics weren’t able to gain much ground on the Bulls as Chicago held a 73-59 lead midway through the quarter.

And then the Bulls added to their hold with a 10-2 run late in the period. Tatum was the only who to score during the stretch as Chicago extended its lead to as much as 87-66 with 1:45 left in the quarter.

Walker hit a 3-pointer in the final seconds to cut Boston’s lead to 91-74 entering the fourth quarter.



BULLS PULL AWAY
The Celtics and Bulls traded punches to open up the fourth quarter while Chicago kept its 14-point lead eight minutes in.

Grant Williams closed the gap to 98-90 with a 3-pointer midway through the quarter. Williams finished on a pair of free throws to get the deficit back to eight, 100-92, less than a minute later, but from there the Bulls turned it back on.

Chicago used a 12-0 run in a three-minute span to retake a 112-92 lead and essentially put the game on ice.

112288

I don’t understand how Frenchy just goes for 2 points in the 2nd half, that has got to be on Brad, how does he not ride the hot hand and are the players ignoring him again? Danny gambled that RWill was ready to take the next step and be the starting center, for 10-12 games it looked good, but the kid is fragile goods and this is suddenly looking like a colossal mistake, like Joe Dumars level drafting Darko. TT sure looked outclassed against an all star caliber center. This training staff that thought or must have told Danny RWill is ready to make a jump should also be fired, plenty of blame to go around and no Theis; no RWill, TT labors, can rebound against weaker 5’s, but that’s about it, he’s got no offense, we got a big hole in the middle now. Anybody have any ideas how we get a breathing functional 5?

Tell Wyc to buy one.

cowens/oldschool wrote:I don’t understand how Frenchy just goes for 2 points in the 2nd half, that has got to be on Brad, how does he not ride the hot hand and are the players ignoring him again? Danny gambled that RWill was ready to take the next step and be the starting center, for 10-12 games it looked good, but the kid is fragile goods and this is suddenly looking like a colossal mistake, like Joe Dumars level drafting Darko. TT sure looked outclassed against an all star caliber center. This training staff that thought or must have told Danny RWill is ready to make a jump should also be fired, plenty of blame to go around and no Theis; no RWill, TT labors, can rebound against weaker 5’s, but that’s about it, he’s got no offense, we got a big hole in the middle now. Anybody have any ideas how we get a breathing functional 5?

Good question. Chicago gave up who for Vuc? I know its now water under the bridge but how did we not swing a deal for Vuc and instead send Theis packing? Danny couldn’t pull it off aye?
I don’t know who’s out there but we got a hole that needs to be filled.
I also agree with you on Fournier. How do you not keep him involved in the game when he is the only other player scoring? Also, can a coach do nothing to get their star going when they’re in a funk like Tatum was today?
Yes, Jay Williams was right, some of this is on Brad. Let’s quit making excuses. Tonight was a must win and we didn’t play like it as a team. Why? Hell if I know. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I don't understand WTF is going with our team?
I don't think it's just fragility of RW3 or not playing EF. Last night the team reminded a birthday balloon that was bought 2 months ago and now is half deflated and very close to the floor.
At times I'm not sure if Brad and Danny know exactly what's wrong with the team.

AK

This team is a seesaw.

The coach is the master of the seesaw.  Case in point, Aaron Nesmith plays only 13 minutes.  This happens so many times that it is not even funny.  A guy starts to show he can play and brings energy and then he goes back to being a low minute rotation players along with all the other scrubs on this team.

This team does not seem capable of playing with purpose.  I have never seen a team with so many high highs and low lows.

Our best hope for having an injection of energy is to play PP and AN.  Enough of the BS = Brad Stevens.  

This team is too dependent on 3 point shooting.

RW has turf toe and the recovery time for that is at least 3 weeks.  We cannot win without him.  TT and LK look like the odd couple.

The B2B Heat games will determine if we will be a play in team.

To me this was a combination of a couple of factors.  One, we were down two starters while Chicago was finally healthy with the return of Zack LaVine and, secondly we just beat the tar out of another shitty team just two days earlier and our some of our young'uns were drinking their own bath water and thinking it was Perrier (not Frenchy, obviously, he would know the difference).  Of the players we expect to make an impact, look at who showed up and who did not.  The veterans.  Almost 31 year old Tristan Thompson (Happy Birthday next week!), 31 year old Kemba Walker (today!  Happy Birthday!) and 28 year old Evan Fournier all showed up.  Who didn't?  23 year Jayson Tatum (who had a great game vs Orlando).

It's not just that Tatum was 3-15 that irks me, it's that he was 0-7 from 3.  It's like he wants to get his numbers back in a hurry so he just keeps chucking them up.  We've seen this many times.  When he attacks he gets to the line and/or scores and when he throws up a lot of 3s sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  He made a horrible inbound pass turnover with 4:20 left that pretty much sealed the loss.  To me it is an act of immaturity to continue to do something that isn't working just because you don't want to admit that tonight's not your night, so do something else.  Rebound.  Play ferocious defense.  Pass the rock.  I haven't forgotten he has just turned 23, but we also have to remember that this is what we have to live with until his emotional age takes the next step up.  We've all been there, right?  I'll bet real money there isn't a single one of us who can't look back at our own youth and say "damn, that was dumb of me.  Wish I knew then...".  Well, Jayson Tatum will get there, he just needs time to grow and we have to be patient however frustrating that might be because we're seeing what should be done from the comfort of our easy chairs and aren't in the arena getting muddy, to draw upon that great quote by TR.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

Ok, enough of that.

Kemba with another great game.  Once again, as frustrating as it is for us to watch us struggle short-handed throughout this season it's looking like Brad's strategy of not playing Kemba in b2bs is working.  He is playing really well now.  Back-to-back 30+ point games, a combined 21-30 and 12-21 from 3.  If this is what a healthy Playoff Kemba looks like we're in good shape.  I've been down on Kemba for almost 2 years now, but that's because I wasn't seeing this Kemba.  This is the Kemba we signed up for.  Two healthy Js and this Kemba and we are dangerous as all getout and that's not even including Fournier.

Who had another great, great game.  Heading into last night's game Frenchy was shooting 40.4% from the field and about 35% from 3 since coming to the Celtics.  As of this morning he's now shooting 42.7% and 41.7% from 3.  His overall fg% is off from his career stats, even for his season in Orlando, but his 41.7% 3pt fg% is now the highest of his career.  Just like with Kemba this is the player we thought we were getting and were wondering where he disappeared to.  This Kemba, this Fournier and two healthy Js and that's a lot of good talent there.




Thompson with only 8 points but 10 rebounds and 2 blocks.  I don't expect points from TT, I expect physical defense and rebounds, rebounds, rebounds.

Unfortunately our starting center is an injury magnet.  "Turf toe"?  For a player that plays on hardwood and isn't throwing his feet out to try and tackle players?  Thompson's solid, so is RWill when he's playing, but after that we have Luke Score-not and Tacko.  Kornet is 7'2" and plays like he's 6'2".  Tacko is much better than he was two years ago, not even close, but he's still a marginal NBA player.  Next year who knows?  Like I said he's made tremendous progress, but this year he's the 4th center on a team that could sure use his height.  In other words, once we get past RWill and Thompson our depth at center drops like it's falling off a table, so RWill's health is critical.  We are a different team with him on the floor.  The problem has been getting him on the floor.  We've played 67 games this season so far.  The Time Lord has only played in 51 of them.

Nesmith with 5 rebounds, not that much else.

I see now why Jabari Parker isn't playing much.  He doesn't know where he should be on defense.  He was always a half-hearted defender.  Combine lack of ganas with a lack of comprehension and you get defensive rotation breakdowns.

Vucevic with a triple double.  I understand the 18 points, that's what he does, and the 14 rebounds too.  When your opponent is shooting < 41% there'll be a lot of rebounds to be had, but the 10 assists were due to us double teaming him and him passing out to shooters effectively.  And Chicago's shooters made us pay.

Coby White is a career 35% 3pt fg% shooter who shot 7-12 (58.3%) from 3 last night.  If you have to leave a shooter open from the arc it makes sense for it to be a mediocre one.  Credit to the 2nd year player to hit those shots.

Better him than Zach LaVine, who is shooting 41.4% from 3 this year.  He shot 3-9 from 3 last night.  So, playing the numbers and not knowing which player is going to have a good game going into it, it makes sense from a coaching perspective to give up the shot to White instead of LaVine.  Last night, however, the script got flipped on us.

We shot 11-39 from 3, 28%.  It's hard to win in this NBA with outside shooting like that.  The culprits, other than 0-7 Jayson Tatum, was the normally reliable Payton Pritchard (0-3), Marcus Smart (0-4) and Grant Williams (1-4).  Add those players up and you've got 1-18.  That's one 3pt fgm despite representing 46% of the team's total 3pt fgas.  It's amazing we were even able to get it down to 8 points with 6 minutes left in the 4th to go with shooting like that.

Grant hit a 3 with 6 left to get it to 8.  We then went on a scoring drought.  Grant hit 2 fritos with 5:19 left.  We didn't score anymore points, not from the field nor the line, until 2:51 when Tacko hit a shot.  We went 0-3, 2 turnovers until Brad cleared out the bench with 3 minutes left.  2 points, both by Grant from the line, in 3 critical minutes.


Chris Forsberg
@ChrisForsberg_
·
13h
Brad Stevens slamming his gum (or something) on the floor after Jayson Tatum's inbound turnover as the game started to slip away about sums up what it's like to watch this team.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1390850901192097797


Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
yesterday
Revisiting this one.. If the Celtics (35-32) don't climb into the top 5 in the East (which now will require a 4-1 or maybe 5-0 finish, the bottom number here is the reason why... Vs. current playoff teams: 11-16 Vs. current play-in teams: 11-6 Vs. current bottom-10 teams: 13-10


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401307810


Bob


.

I just wonder.......what has become of Marcus Smart? He is a TO magnet, a terrible shooter, and a guy who seems to have given up, period. It is like that suspension and ejection ripped the heart right out of him. And before that he was struggling too. I am a big Smart supporter, so I really wonder, is there more going on here????

I love RWll, but, let me tell you, having him as our starting center is so frustrating I could scream. Every day is an adventure waiting for the injury report. This team cannot survive next year with him as our starter. I love watching him, he has so much talent, but I fear he is one guy who will never reach his full potential because of being so injury prone.

I know Tatum was due for a stinker, but this bad? It seems like when Jaylen is out he just loses interest. Come on JT you should have eaten this team alive last night. You are much better than that.

Can we please refer to Evan Fournier by his name?

To answer cowens/oldschool's question, I think I have a possible solution. One that makes the most sense.  

First of all, I don't think ownership gives a crap about this season or anything that follows in the post season.  Thanks, Captain Obvious.  But now add the Kemba Situation.  Why are they resting him on B2B's?  Is it just because of the injury?  Maybe, but think about it.  Is there a bigger plan in mind?  Kemba, in the meantime, heals up, but for what?  A playoff run?  Anyone REALLY like our chances there this season?  Why would you save a guy for at worst a two game play-in winding up in not making the playoffs or at best, make the playoffs with one play-in win and then get swept by BKN, MIL or PHI?  

When Kemba does come back on the court after sitting out a game or three, he goes for 32 points.  Who would care about that besides us?  Again, why would you get a guy healthy for the "playoffs" if you are going to get swept in the first round?    

Cowens/oldschool, it's been said repeatedly on this site that the only two centers worth pursuing are Embiid and the Joker.  AD has already burned his bridge here and it's beginning to look like he's damaged goods going forward.    

I don't know if the numbers work but you put up a healthy Kemba who can score you 32 a night if need be, Marcus Smart for defense and RWIII from the damaged goods bin plus maybe a draft pick or some more of our earlier picks and you can get either one of those two.  Great way to clean house if you're Wyc.  You can guarantee a deal if you replace Kemba with JB or JT if we are stuck with Kemba.      

Remember, there will only be one representative from the East in the Finals.  Everyone else will be blowing up their teams right and left with a fire sale looking for that one missing piece.  Right now, I have to lean toward the Bucks finally making it over the hump and getting there vs. PHI and certainly BKN.  At least the way they have been playing the last two weeks.  Out West, again we're back to same old DEN, they don't stand a chance.  Both those teams will be willing to wheel and deal.  I'd go out West first if I were Danny...hold that thought.

If we have a plan like this in the works, it makes it difficult to predict what will happen this summer for coaching and management.  I don't think Wyc is going to choose the nuclear option and clean house all the way through but I would not count it out.  I don't think it will be just the team that gets blown up.  I would think Brad would go before Danny.  Just a hunch.      

I think the Celtics are window dressing Kemba and maybe one of the J's for this summer.  Who knows?  We'll see.  

db

Priority one in the off season: Find a big who can get in the paint rebound and put some bodies on the floor. Scoring certainly helps and if he can hit the 3 thats a bonus but not a necessity. I love him dearly but RW is not going to be able to be counted on for the long haul. His career looks like it may come to a screeching halt before he reaches the age of 27. TT can get us some OR but he’s on the downside of his career cant really bang with the Bigguns and is a band-aide for right now. (Please leave your Jump Hook in Khloe’s purse and keep it there).
I’ve noticed Marcus smart’s demeanor and game ever since the suspension.
I don’t know what he may have said to that referee but whatever was said to him must’ve been career threatening because he has been very quiet. I noticed when we made that run against San Antonio and everyone on the bench was getting excited, Marcus was shaking his fist in a positive manner but it wasn’t the Marcus that we’ve come to know. He still plays hard but he offers no resistance to bad calls against him and there have been a few that were glaring. He’s usually very animated but recently not so much. He appears to have lost confidence and thats not the Marcus that we all know and love. Whatever tactics were used, whatever was said or done to him should never ever be employed again. It may work for some players but for Marcus its reduced him to a player scared for his life. Sure he needed to be disciplined but everyone needs to be disciplined differently and what they did to him did not work. Not for him the team or the fans. We need Marcus back or we wont make it past the play-in.
One last thing. Yeah, where TF was Nesmith Brad? SMDH

Since the team seems like it is a rudderless ship with no direction at all, and the fact that players like Aaron Nesmith plays very well in expanded minutes only to be sitting on the bench as some 12 guy all fall into the lap of THE COACH

First few years I bought into Stevens and his coaching style, but I also saw the bloom come off the rose and the team slowly begin to deteriorate. The fact of the matter is THE PLAYERS ARE NOT LISTENING NOR ACTING WITH URGENCY.

In business when there is a fall off in production, I first look at the employees to see if there is a performance problem due to lack of talent or an attitude problem. Then you begin to gut the rot out and fill it in with productive people with strong attitudes in wanting to succeed.

In this case the team has incredible talent. Think where we would be if we had Tom Thibodeau! So in the NBA you cannot fire the players or at least your stars, but you can begin to gut the team of the rot and non talent that you have been holding on to for too long.

In a business from the staff you move to the department heads and begin cutting the weak talent and keeping the strong. I believe Brad (with all his IQ basket ball talent) is a weak coach. He is too slow to react during games, he never comes up with a lock down game plan that insures a win when needed. He should be let go for a stronger personality person who can bring in a new fresh approach to this team and the how to use the great talent that it possesses.

As for Danny, I would give him 1 year to clean this mess up or be fired! The hand writing was on the wall that Danny was about to be let go back in 2006-2007. That fear caused Danny to get creative and the rest is history.......KG, RA and all the other pieces he assembled to win. Possey, House, BJ Brown!

COME ON DANNY, CUT THE CRAP AND TAKE COMMAND OF THIS TEAM AND MAKE SOME CHANGES LIKE 2008 INCLUDING A NEW COACH!

112288

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I just wonder.......what has become of Marcus Smart?  He is a TO magnet, a terrible shooter, and a  guy who seems to have given up, period.  It is like that suspension and ejection ripped the heart right out of him.  And before that he was struggling too.  I am a big Smart supporter, so I really wonder, is there more going on here????

I love RWll, but, let me tell you, having him as our starting center is so frustrating I could scream. Every day is an adventure waiting for the injury report.  This team cannot survive next year with him as our starter.  I love watching him, he has so much talent, but I fear he is one guy who will never reach his full potential because of being so injury prone.

I know Tatum was due for a stinker, but this bad? It seems like when Jaylen is out he just loses interest.  Come on JT you should have eaten this team alive last night. You are much better than that.

Can we please refer to Evan Fournier by his name?

I know I’ve mentioned a few times how off his game seems to be, what happened to his offense? I cringe everytime he puts up a 3, he plays so hard always sacrificing his body, his body might be so beat up he’s lost his touch. He still can make Smart type of plays on defense, his last really good game was the Suns game; but imagine if we chose Levine, my pick, the year we drafted Smart? If we have an early exit from this years playoffs and his offense continues to be such a bad liability, I don’t know if he’ll get another contract from us....

dbrown4 wrote:To answer cowens/oldschool's question, I think I have a possible solution.  One that makes the most sense.    

First of all, I don't think ownership gives a crap about this season or anything that follows in the post season.  Thanks, Captain Obvious.  But now add the Kemba Situation.  Why are they resting him on B2B's?  Is it just because of the injury?  Maybe, but think about it.  Is there a bigger plan in mind?  Kemba, in the meantime, heals up, but for what?  A playoff run?  Anyone REALLY like our chances there this season?  Why would you save a guy for at worst a two game play-in winding up in not making the playoffs or at best, make the playoffs with one play-in win and then get swept by BKN, MIL or PHI?  

When Kemba does come back on the court after sitting out a game or three, he goes for 32 points.  Who would care about that besides us?  Again, why would you get a guy healthy for the "playoffs" if you are going to get swept in the first round?    

Cowens/oldschool, it's been said repeatedly on this site that the only two centers worth pursuing are Embiid and the Joker.  AD has already burned his bridge here and it's beginning to look like he's damaged goods going forward.    

I don't know if the numbers work but you put up a healthy Kemba who can score you 32 a night if need be, Marcus Smart for defense and RWIII from the damaged goods bin plus maybe a draft pick or some more of our earlier picks and you can get either one of those two.  Great way to clean house if you're Wyc.  You can guarantee a deal if you replace Kemba with JB or JT if we are stuck with Kemba.      

Remember, there will only be one representative from the East in the Finals.  Everyone else will be blowing up their teams right and left with a fire sale looking for that one missing piece.  Right now, I have to lean toward the Bucks finally making it over the hump and getting there vs. PHI and certainly BKN.  At least the way they have been playing the last two weeks.  Out West, again we're back to same old DEN, they don't stand a chance.  Both those teams will be willing to wheel and deal.  I'd go out West first if I were Danny...hold that thought.

If we have a plan like this in the works, it makes it difficult to predict what will happen this summer for coaching and management.  I don't think Wyc is going to choose the nuclear option and clean house all the way through but I would not count it out.  I don't think it will be just the team that gets blown up.  I would think Brad would go before Danny.  Just a hunch.      

I think the Celtics are window dressing Kemba and maybe one of the J's for this summer.  Who knows?  We'll see.  

db

Dbrown with all due respect you are delusional if you think the Sixers or Nuggets would accept a trade like that for either star 5. I can’t believe Danny passed on Gafford for GWill, Edwards, etc especially since we already had Semi. We don’t necessarily need an all world 5, our strength is our wings and Frenchy and Nesmith only add to that depth going forward. Only a few superstar 5’s are in the league, teams are not giving those players away, at this point wish we could have even gotten Dwight Howard. We just need a Jared Allen type, a tough durable defender/rebounder, RWill would have been perfect, but he’s already such damaged goods, because he’s so fragile he’s a 12 minute a game Javele McGee type going forward....shame we already put so much time in developing him and it’s one leg issue after another. Sickens me

cowens/oldschool wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I just wonder.......what has become of Marcus Smart?  He is a TO magnet, a terrible shooter, and a  guy who seems to have given up, period.  It is like that suspension and ejection ripped the heart right out of him.  And before that he was struggling too.  I am a big Smart supporter, so I really wonder, is there more going on here????

I love RWll, but, let me tell you, having him as our starting center is so frustrating I could scream. Every day is an adventure waiting for the injury report.  This team cannot survive next year with him as our starter.  I love watching him, he has so much talent, but I fear he is one guy who will never reach his full potential because of being so injury prone.

I know Tatum was due for a stinker, but this bad? It seems like when Jaylen is out he just loses interest.  Come on JT you should have eaten this team alive last night. You are much better than that.

Can we please refer to Evan Fournier by his name?

I know I’ve mentioned a few times how off his game seems to be, what happened to his offense? I cringe everytime he puts up a 3, he plays so hard always sacrificing his body, his body might be so beat up he’s lost his touch. He still can make Smart type of plays on defense, his last really good game was the Suns game; but imagine if we chose Levine, my pick, the year we drafted Smart? If we have an early exit from this years playoffs and his offense continues to be such a bad liability, I don’t know if he’ll get another contract from us....

Players drafted ahead of Smart in the 2014 draft

Andrew Wiggins- Oops!
Jabari Parker- Oops!
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon- Oops!
Dante Exum- Oops!

A few of significance after Smart

Julius Randle #7
Zach Levine #13
Joe Harris #33
Jerami Grant #39
Nikola Jokic #41!

Obviously there is no exact science to this. We did fine in my opinion.

Ktron, 112288, Cow...I agree with all you say, except Cow, Danny made a good pick drafting Marcus. No one picked Jokic in the first round.

I totally soured on Brad during kast year's Toronto series, was disgusted how we lost to the Heat, cut him some slack this year, but now I just want to sit Shiva on him. He us dead to me as a coach. Nice guy. Good person. Likeable. Underwhelming coach. Danny, replace him please, and get a center for us while you are at it. Who have we had at the 5 since Perk? No one worth mentioning. Glad Kemba is regaining his health and form. Way too late though.

worcester wrote:Ktron, 112288, Cow...I agree with all you say, except Cow, Danny made a good pick drafting Marcus. No one picked Jokic in the first round.

I totally soured on Brad during kast year's Toronto series, was disgusted how we lost to the Heat, cut him some slack this year, but now I just want to sit Shiva on him. He us dead to me as a coach. Nice guy. Good person. Likeable. Underwhelming coach. Danny, replace him please, and get a center for us while you are at it. Who have we had at the 5 since Perk? No one worth mentioning. Glad Kemba is regaining his health and form. Way too late though.

Tatum was off the whole game and I did not see any change in the approach or strategy by Stevens on how to mix things up for Tatum to change his game up, you know like you would think he would come up with something creative to get some easy baskets to get him going, but nothing. Nesmith has been a sparkplug of late and we looked lethargic the whole game, so let’s freeze out the rook. Definitely one of Stevens worst coaching games; and I’m still pissed at that zone he called to help wipe out a 3-0 lead that was less than a second away and turn the series into a dogfight.

Cow ...the value of the Boston Celtics rose from $274 million in 2003 to $3.2 billion in 2021. WTF is wrong with Wyc that he couldn't write Orlando some kind of check plus players for Vuc? Or some other worthwhile center? And how about tossing in a playmaking PG too. Chris Paul was available. So was the Lakers PG. So was Rajon. I'm pissed at Brad's coaching style, but not the man. He is a good man, and the world needs kindergarten teachers. I'm pissed at Danny that he never forgave Tree Rollins for biting him and for apparently holding that grudge against all other NBA centers ever since. But most of all I'm pissed at Wyc who is giving our home town of Worcester a bad name, and that I take personally!

cowens/oldschool,

You don't think either one would jump at Kemba + JT/JB?  DEN would have to send us more than Jokic for that as well.    Denver's never going to win anything out West.  

If we need a center so bad that's not on the periphery, go get one.  Embiid's like AD.  Too injury prone.

Let's face it.  We've regressed considerably this year, no matter the circumstances.  Everybody had injuries.  Time for at least a semi-nuclear solution.  Minimum of two of the three areas (team, coach, GM) need to be significantly reset.  If we just go around the edges and tweak this summer, expect more of the same next year and worse.  

db

Dbrown both of those 5’s are in the discussion for MVP, don’t see either team accepting that trade, sorry. I also don’t want to give up either J. We are in the Jordan stage when he was 25 or so and had just acquired Pippen, only we’re ahead of them in that we have already gotten to 2 ECF’s; but individually Jordan is obviously in a category all by himself. So it may take a few more years to put the additional pieces around the 2 J’s, who look to be at beginning of multiple all star game selections, different eras too, we may have found our versions of Paxson/Kerr in PP and Ron Harper in Nesmith, but we need a sturdy Luc Longley....if we had made the right moves, we’d already be right there, we can still get there. There had to be some way to acquire Vucevic or even Jared Allen without giving up a J. I would have included Smart and Kemba in that package, Wyc and Danny gambled that RWill and TT would be that tandem. I see PP and Nesmith improving, could a line up of a PP Nesmith Jaylen Jayson and a functional durable board eating defensive 5 get it done and keep a Frenchy and add some pieces?

Cow, the andwer to your last question is YES. JT,JB, PP, AN, EF, and real center could do a lot of damage in the NBA. At this point I would still keep Marcus, and we are now stuck with Kemba, which if he stays healthy, could be a very good thing. Brad needs to go, and Wyc, having avoided salary cap hell this year, needs to spend next year. He chose to limit Danny's options in 20-21. Next year should be different.

worcester wrote:Cow, the andwer to your last question is YES. JT,JB, PP, AN, EF, and  real center could do a lot of damage in the NBA. At this point I would still keep Marcus, and we are now stuck with Kemba, which if he stays healthy, could be a very good thing. Brad needs to go, and Wyc, having avoided salary cap hell this year, needs to spend next year. He chose to limit Danny's options in 20-21. Next year should be different.

Agreed +1

I was imagining a scenario to acquire that durable big bad boy center

1.  Forget about trading for either Jokic or Embiid.  Not gonna happen unless Tatum is on the table.  Maybe Brown instead, but that offer would need a lot of ++ and even then I'm not confident it'd happen.  It may be fun to fantasize about, but if you think these deals actually will happen without Tatum being on the deal you need to either back off your meds, or up the voltage, because you're losing your grip on reality.

2.  I've said that Brad gives the Js too much leash.  On the other hand, we've all seen how one of them can be icy cold in one half and then go nuclear the next.  Our problem on Friday with Chicago was that one of the Js was out and the other was polar frigid the whole game.  That meant the scoring responsibilities fell upon Kemba and Fournier, both of whom stepped up big time, and our gaggle of supporting characters off the bench who did not step up.  Nesmith and Pritchard have been playing and scoring well but neither one did that game.  RWill has athleticism on both Vuc and Theis, but he didn't play.  Not only did our defense suffer but we had nobody to lob to on penetrations.

3.  Danny needs to clean out the end of the bench and bring in veterans.  Nothing against Carsen Edwards but he's not a reliable shooter, like Gerald Green was, to come in and light a fire under the team.  I've said that Semi and Grant have so much overlap in their games we don't need both of them and I still believe that.  Trade, or release, one of them and now there's two open roster spots.  I'd trade Romeo.  I hate to cut the kid loose but he struggles to get on the court and when he gets on the court his offense is minimal.  Is his defense that much better than Nesmith's?  The gap is not as large now as it was 2 months ago, which brings us back to another Semi vs Grant type of decision point except with Romeo and Aaron with Aaron's offense being significantly better.  Do we need both?  I would trade them for picks (not Nesmith) or a veteran (I would only trade Nesmith for a decent veteran, if that).  Doesn't have to be a really good veteran, like a former starter like Fournier, but someone who has been doing what he's been doing for 10 years and nobody has figured out how to beat him at that yet.  A gunner like Lou Williams (or Terrence Ross, or Gerald Green), or a passer like Rondo or IT.  They're rentals, but while they're here they'll give us a boost and bring specific, dependable value whereas Semi, Grant, Carsen and even Romeo don't.  They also won't wilt under playoff pressure.  That alone increases their value to us and every other playoff-bound team even in spot-duty.

3.  This is Brad's 8th year in the NBA.  The first year, we all know, was a complete clusterf--k courtesy of Trader Danny, who made revolving doors look like fixed monuments.  The next year we made the playoffs.  This didn't please some fans because they wanted to be in the lottery instead of a first round exit (e.g. Cowens), but we made the playoffs.  We had another 1st round exit in Brad's 3rd year.  He then took us to the EC Finals in 3 of the next 4 years.  In summation:  1 understandable dead year, 2 years of unexpectedly large improvements as we worked our way up in the standings, and then 3 trips to the EC out of a total of 7 years.  That's not a bad record considering Brad was handed a fixed deck to start with, 6 playoff years out of 7 and one of those playoff years was an overachievement.  We don't know, yet, what will happen these playoffs.  We all think we do, but it's just conjecture and is why they still play the games anyway.  

4.  I would love for someone to do an analysis to determine how many player games we've lost this year to injuries and COVID.  Theis has played 22 games for Chicago.  Fournier has played 12 for us.  So, there's 10 games that a healthy player we shipped out played and an incoming player didn't play for us because of COVID, and that's just since the trading deadline.  Kemba doesn't play b2b, but he didn't play at all for the first month or two of the season, remember?  There are 5 games left to play out of 72, so we've played 67.  Tatum has only played in 60 of them.  Maybe one or two were rest days, but I'll bet most of them were COVID-related, and we all know that he has had lingering effects from it (he uses a inhaler).  Jaylen has played in 58 games.  RWill has played in 51, and so has Thompson.  Marcus Smart has played in only 46 games this season.  Is there another team that has lost as many player games this season that are in the playoffs and, if so, what's their record?!

5.  Vuc and Theis are both NBA starting centers.  Our starting center was out.  Trying to compare the Chicago centers' games to our centers' games is not fair.  How well do you think Chicago's bigs would have fared if Vuc was out?  Who's their 3rd string center?  Can you even name him?  I'm a bit unsure about Kornet's real value but he is an NBA center, however questionable his quality might be.  Who's Chicago's 3rd string center?  Markannen?  He's allergic to paint on offense and mediocre at best on defense.  He's averaging 10.4fgas/game and 5.8 of them are 3pt fgas.  Over half of Markannen's fgas are 3s, and he's only averaging .3 blocks/game.  Our heads would explode with a "center" like that (well, at least my head and Cowens' would).  Ok, so he's still better than Kornet, but then whom?  Christiano Felicio?  He's played a total of 63 minutes this season, 2 of them against us on Friday.  My point is that the quality of our depth drops significantly once we get past Thompson and that's what we had to deal with on Friday, while Billy Donovan was able to use their 3rd string big the way he can best be used and that's out at the perimeter and not as a center.

6.  The idea that Wyc can just write checks for players because the value of the franchise increased 10 times since he bought it ignores the CBA.  There are not only salary caps and luxury taxes to consider but also a hard cap.  It doesn't matter if you're Jeff Bezos you cannot go over the hard cap.  That's why it's called a "hard cap".    The Boston Celtics are currently "hard capped".  This means that Wyc is spending the maximum amount of money on salaries he, and every other NBA owner, can spend.


Bob


.

Goodman: Brad Stevens' 5-year extension doesn't mean Celtics might not explore change


By WEEI - 3 hours ago

According to The Stadium's Jeff Goodman, Brad Stevens' contract extension was for five years, putting him under contract with the team for six seasons.

That, however, doesn't mean a change at the Celtics head coaching spot is out of the question.

Appearing on the Ken and Curtis Show Saturday, Goodman presented scenarios Celtics general manager Danny Ainge might consider if the underachieving C's don't find a way to win at last one playoff series.


One of the primary options, according to Goodman, may very well include Stevens.

"After this year if you don't win a playoff series, which it doesn't look like they're going to do, I think you have a decision to make if you're Danny Ainge," Goodman explained. "Door A is making a move on Brad Stevens. And Door B is exploring the opportunity of trading Jaylen Brown and seeing what you can get. I'm not saying you give him away. I have been a proponent of trading him in a deal for Bradley Beal. But I think you have to explore it because there is no other option that is going to bring you something that is really going to change the complexion of this team. You're not trading Jayson Tatum. It would be stupid. He's an MVP candidate in a few years. You're not trading Kemba Walker because you're going to get 50 cents on the dollar right now, so it would be bad business. Trading Jaylen Brown, his value is really, really high. There might be somebody out there, whether's Tommy Shepherd, the GM of Washington, or somebody else, who thinks I can build my franchise around this guy. He's that good and he's gotten so much better over the last year or so. It's not crazy to think that some GM out there would give a ton for Jaylen Brown."

The Stevens move, obviously, would be a tough one for Ainge considering the commitment made to his coach in August.


"You're not going to find a higher character guy, but, listen, at some point you have to look in the mirror if you're Danny Ainge and say, 'We can't go in with the same group next year. We have to do something different.' And the easier move to make obviously is the coach," Goodman said of Stevens. "Maybe it's just not clicking right now. Brad Stevens, listen, if something happens with him he's going to find a new spot in the NBA within five minutes. So don't feel sorry for Brad, he'll be just fine. It wouldn't shock me if he took the year off and spent it with his family and his kids and whatnot. Brad is a different type of dude that way. But you do need somebody ... Can you get a former NBA player in? I think that's what Danny would look for if he made a move. But, listen, they signed Brad to a five-year deal last year with a ton of money. So is Wyc going to pay that money out at this point? Again, the alternative is there is three deals here: It's Brad, it's Jaylen and it's going with what you have again next year. And I think that's what will frustrate fans a lot more and Danny a lot more if they pick up where they left off and they're just kind of a middle of the Eastern Conference playoff team, which I don't see them being any better if they keep this group together. It's not like Kemba is going to be the old Kemba at 25, 26 years old at 100 percent every night. We've seen what we're going to get from Kemba. He's going to have some great nights and then he's going to be out of the lineup and he's going to have some poor shooting nights. There is inconsistency among Kemba, and I think Kemba is a sort of a microcosm of where the Celtics are right now. They're just inconsistent. You don't know what to expect."

Asked to confirm that the extension given to Stevens was indeed five years, Goodman added, "Yeah. We don't know the money, because Brad ... his lawyer is his wife so there's not a lot of leaks that come out of the Brad Stevens camp, and rightfully so. So, yeah, it was a five-year deal for a lot of money. A lot of money."


112288

bobheckler wrote:1.  Forget about trading for either Jokic or Embiid.  Not gonna happen unless Tatum is on the table.  Maybe Brown instead, but that offer would need a lot of ++ and even then I'm not confident it'd happen.  It may be fun to fantasize about, but if you think these deals actually will happen without Tatum being on the deal you need to either back off your meds, or up the voltage, because you're losing your grip on reality.

2.  I've said that Brad gives the Js too much leash.  On the other hand, we've all seen how one of them can be icy cold in one half and then go nuclear the next.  Our problem on Friday with Chicago was that one of the Js was out and the other was polar frigid the whole game.  That meant the scoring responsibilities fell upon Kemba and Fournier, both of whom stepped up big time, and our gaggle of supporting characters off the bench who did not step up.  Nesmith and Pritchard have been playing and scoring well but neither one did that game.  RWill has athleticism on both Vuc and Theis, but he didn't play.  Not only did our defense suffer but we had nobody to lob to on penetrations.

3.  Danny needs to clean out the end of the bench and bring in veterans.  Nothing against Carsen Edwards but he's not a reliable shooter, like Gerald Green was, to come in and light a fire under the team.  I've said that Semi and Grant have so much overlap in their games we don't need both of them and I still believe that.  Trade, or release, one of them and now there's two open roster spots.  I'd trade Romeo.  I hate to cut the kid loose but he struggles to get on the court and when he gets on the court his offense is minimal.  Is his defense that much better than Nesmith's?  The gap is not as large now as it was 2 months ago, which brings us back to another Semi vs Grant type of decision point except with Romeo and Aaron with Aaron's offense being significantly better.  Do we need both?  I would trade them for picks (not Nesmith) or a veteran (I would only trade Nesmith for a decent veteran, if that).  Doesn't have to be a really good veteran, like a former starter like Fournier, but someone who has been doing what he's been doing for 10 years and nobody has figured out how to beat him at that yet.  A gunner like Lou Williams (or Terrence Ross, or Gerald Green), or a passer like Rondo or IT.  They're rentals, but while they're here they'll give us a boost and bring specific, dependable value whereas Semi, Grant, Carsen and even Romeo don't.  They also won't wilt under playoff pressure.  That alone increases their value to us and every other playoff-bound team even in spot-duty.

3.  This is Brad's 8th year in the NBA.  The first year, we all know, was a complete clusterf--k courtesy of Trader Danny, who made revolving doors look like fixed monuments.  The next year we made the playoffs.  This didn't please some fans because they wanted to be in the lottery instead of a first round exit (e.g. Cowens), but we made the playoffs.  We had another 1st round exit in Brad's 3rd year.  He then took us to the EC Finals in 3 of the next 4 years.  In summation:  1 understandable dead year, 2 years of unexpectedly large improvements as we worked our way up in the standings, and then 3 trips to the EC out of a total of 7 years.  That's not a bad record considering Brad was handed a fixed deck to start with, 6 playoff years out of 7 and one of those playoff years was an overachievement.  We don't know, yet, what will happen these playoffs.  We all think we do, but it's just conjecture and is why they still play the games anyway.  

4.  I would love for someone to do an analysis to determine how many player games we've lost this year to injuries and COVID.  Theis has played 22 games for Chicago.  Fournier has played 12 for us.  So, there's 10 games that a healthy player we shipped out played and an incoming player didn't play for us because of COVID, and that's just since the trading deadline.  Kemba doesn't play b2b, but he didn't play at all for the first month or two of the season, remember?  There are 5 games left to play out of 72, so we've played 67.  Tatum has only played in 60 of them.  Maybe one or two were rest days, but I'll bet most of them were COVID-related, and we all know that he has had lingering effects from it (he uses a inhaler).  Jaylen has played in 58 games.  RWill has played in 51, and so has Thompson.  Marcus Smart has played in only 46 games this season.  Is there another team that has lost as many player games this season that are in the playoffs and, if so, what's their record?!

5.  Vuc and Theis are both NBA starting centers.  Our starting center was out.  Trying to compare the Chicago centers' games to our centers' games is not fair.  How well do you think Chicago's bigs would have fared if Vuc was out?  Who's their 3rd string center?  Can you even name him?  I'm a bit unsure about Kornet's real value but he is an NBA center, however questionable his quality might be.  Who's Chicago's 3rd string center?  Markannen?  He's allergic to paint on offense and mediocre at best on defense.  He's averaging 10.4fgas/game and 5.8 of them are 3pt fgas.  Over half of Markannen's fgas are 3s, and he's only averaging .3 blocks/game.  Our heads would explode with a "center" like that (well, at least my head and Cowens' would).  Ok, so he's still better than Kornet, but then whom?  Christiano Felicio?  He's played a total of 63 minutes this season, 2 of them against us on Friday.  My point is that the quality of our depth drops significantly once we get past Thompson and that's what we had to deal with on Friday, while Billy Donovan was able to use their 3rd string big the way he can best be used and that's out at the perimeter and not as a center.

6.  The idea that Wyc can just write checks for players because the value of the franchise increased 10 times since he bought it ignores the CBA.  There are not only salary caps and luxury taxes to consider but also a hard cap.  It doesn't matter if you're Jeff Bezos you cannot go over the hard cap.  That's why it's called a "hard cap".    The Boston Celtics are currently "hard capped".  This means that Wyc is spending the maximum amount of money on salaries he, and every other NBA owner, can spend.


Bob


.

Some good points here bob and I wont get into some of your numbers because you and I know how much we differ on the weight of some of it. I do hear a lot of excuses coming from your post that would get a CEO tossed for less.
I cant tell you how many teams have lost how many player minutes to COVID but I’m sure that most if not all have lost some.
You’re right, injuries have been a major factor here for us. I don’t want to hear about Wyc’s wallet. Some of his money saving moves have cost us so no excuses for the billionaire here. You’re also right that Brad’s track record with the C’s deserves praise and he has done a damn good job for the most part. However, if this group of players are now ignoring his instructions (which obviously some of the them are and I won’t mention any names just initial’s J J) and/or no longer respect him as a coach which in effect renders him ineffective. What should be done?

When all is said and done no part of this organization is exempt.  Players have not fulfilled their obligation to play the way their coach has directed, Danny Ainge overstocked the roster with too many below average draft picks while losing several Allstar level players to free agency and coach Stevens has not yet figured out how to get the most out of his team.  More than his coaching philosophy the lack of accountability has plagued this team all year.  

Brad Stevens will coach the Celtics next season.  Danny will make some modifications to the roster  but don't expect some blockbuster trade unless KW is moved.  The players are still going through the maturation process and overall I think we can move forward with most of the core group.

This has been a real crazy season and no one is pleased with where the team is right now.  

Off season decisions include what to do with Fournier, adding another center and maybe moving TT and a player to make that happen, pairing down the roster.  Finding a buyer for Kemba Walker if possible. Making a decision on keeping RW for at least another year.  Trading or extending Marcus Smart. Upgrading the coaching staff. We could use a good cop/bad cop combo.  These are just a few things.