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POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by 112288 Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:33 pm
I'M PISSED!!!!!!!!!
Forget Sterns idiot refing crew, the Celtics played sloppy ball in the first half to keep Cleveland in the game. Paul must be reading too much of his press in the papers. Despite an 18 point offensive night, he cost the Celtic dearly with 7 count them 7 turnovers that lead to 12 points.
The Celtics allowed 54 points to be scored in the paint OUCH!
Another thing , with 4:30 to go, Doc, why take Wilcox out! I just saw that coming! That disrupted their whole defense flow.
Another nice game by ET Moore and Bradley and nice energy off the bench by Sasha Pav. Ray, forget Ray, he did not miss a beat being out by scoring 22 points!
Appears that Semih Erden is in coaches dog house and as noted by Mike Gorman the Celtics are keeping an eye on that situation and possibly getting him back to the Celtics.
Tuesday next game against guess who in Cleveland. 7PM start.
112288
WEEI 850 RECAP
FAST BREAK: CELTICS LET ONE GET AWAY 01.29.12 at 8:22 pm ET
By Paul Flannery | No Comments
The Celtics had the game well in hand and then, everything fell apart. They went scoreless for the final four and a half minutes and rookie guard Kyrie Irving sliced through the defense for a layup with 2.6 seconds left to give the Cavaliers an 88-87 win. Paul Pierce missed a shot jumper at the buzzer.
The loss snapped the Celtics four-game winning streak and was easily one of their worst of the season. The two teams are back in action again on Tuesday in Cleveland.
WHAT WENT WRONG
– The Cavs took advantage of Jermaine O’Neal‘s absence by attacking the paint at every opportunity. Sixteen of their first 19 points were scored in the paint and they finished with 54 for the game. Anderson Varejao had his way with the Celtics’ bigs and Irving was able to penetrate at will.
– Irving took Avery Bradley apart, scoring 23 points on 10-for-14 shooting.
– At times the Celtics were careful with the ball. At others — such as in the second quarter when they turned it over seven times — they were careless. When they kept the turnovers at a minimum, the Cavs couldn’t stop them.
– The Celtics reserves were outscored 30-14.
WHAT WENT RIGHT
– Ray Allen returned to the lineup and the Big Three were once again whole. They scored 50 of the Celtics’ 70 points through the first three quarters and made 20-of-29 shots. Allen finished with 22 points, but missed a layup that would have given the Celtics a nine-point lead. That’s when the Cavs made their run.
– Paul Pierce had another strong all-around game with 18 points, six rebounds and five assists.
– The Celtics almost won this game with offense. They shot 52 percent and had assists on eight of their 10 made shots in the first quarter. They couldn’t keep up the pace, but it was one of their best extended stretches of passing this season.
– The bench didn’t have a strong game (see below), but they were able to maintain a lead in the fourth quarter while Pierce and Garnett were able to rest. Sasha Pavlovic made two big shots including a baseline dunk.
Forget Sterns idiot refing crew, the Celtics played sloppy ball in the first half to keep Cleveland in the game. Paul must be reading too much of his press in the papers. Despite an 18 point offensive night, he cost the Celtic dearly with 7 count them 7 turnovers that lead to 12 points.
The Celtics allowed 54 points to be scored in the paint OUCH!
Another thing , with 4:30 to go, Doc, why take Wilcox out! I just saw that coming! That disrupted their whole defense flow.
Another nice game by ET Moore and Bradley and nice energy off the bench by Sasha Pav. Ray, forget Ray, he did not miss a beat being out by scoring 22 points!
Appears that Semih Erden is in coaches dog house and as noted by Mike Gorman the Celtics are keeping an eye on that situation and possibly getting him back to the Celtics.
Tuesday next game against guess who in Cleveland. 7PM start.
112288
WEEI 850 RECAP
FAST BREAK: CELTICS LET ONE GET AWAY 01.29.12 at 8:22 pm ET
By Paul Flannery | No Comments
The Celtics had the game well in hand and then, everything fell apart. They went scoreless for the final four and a half minutes and rookie guard Kyrie Irving sliced through the defense for a layup with 2.6 seconds left to give the Cavaliers an 88-87 win. Paul Pierce missed a shot jumper at the buzzer.
The loss snapped the Celtics four-game winning streak and was easily one of their worst of the season. The two teams are back in action again on Tuesday in Cleveland.
WHAT WENT WRONG
– The Cavs took advantage of Jermaine O’Neal‘s absence by attacking the paint at every opportunity. Sixteen of their first 19 points were scored in the paint and they finished with 54 for the game. Anderson Varejao had his way with the Celtics’ bigs and Irving was able to penetrate at will.
– Irving took Avery Bradley apart, scoring 23 points on 10-for-14 shooting.
– At times the Celtics were careful with the ball. At others — such as in the second quarter when they turned it over seven times — they were careless. When they kept the turnovers at a minimum, the Cavs couldn’t stop them.
– The Celtics reserves were outscored 30-14.
WHAT WENT RIGHT
– Ray Allen returned to the lineup and the Big Three were once again whole. They scored 50 of the Celtics’ 70 points through the first three quarters and made 20-of-29 shots. Allen finished with 22 points, but missed a layup that would have given the Celtics a nine-point lead. That’s when the Cavs made their run.
– Paul Pierce had another strong all-around game with 18 points, six rebounds and five assists.
– The Celtics almost won this game with offense. They shot 52 percent and had assists on eight of their 10 made shots in the first quarter. They couldn’t keep up the pace, but it was one of their best extended stretches of passing this season.
– The bench didn’t have a strong game (see below), but they were able to maintain a lead in the fourth quarter while Pierce and Garnett were able to rest. Sasha Pavlovic made two big shots including a baseline dunk.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by mrkleen09 Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:45 pm
I have never said this out here, but I blame this loss on Doc.
He made a tactical mistake in the 4th quarter that cost them the game. With 5 minutes left, he had KG and Pierce on the bench - and was going with the second unit. As Cleveland started to make their run, he did not come back with the starters as he usually does....he let the bench play too long.
When he finally did bring back Pierce and KG....they were both ice cold, and unable to hit shots down the stretch.
He should have either stayed with the bench - or gone to the starters earlier.
Not much else to say.
He made a tactical mistake in the 4th quarter that cost them the game. With 5 minutes left, he had KG and Pierce on the bench - and was going with the second unit. As Cleveland started to make their run, he did not come back with the starters as he usually does....he let the bench play too long.
When he finally did bring back Pierce and KG....they were both ice cold, and unable to hit shots down the stretch.
He should have either stayed with the bench - or gone to the starters earlier.
Not much else to say.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by MDCelticsFan Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:25 pm
SAd way to lose getting shut out the last 4:25. It is what it is. As unlikely as the comeback was down 27 to Orlando we saw how it can go the other way snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Pierce was fouled at the head of the key with I guess about 2 minutes and change to go and should have had 2 foul shots. I'm not sure Garnett traveled either about a minute and a half later. Too bad Irving didn't matriculate longer at Duke. That young dude is the real deal. Rondo would have had his hand full. The milk is spilled. Just get a roll of Bounty and clean it up and on to Cleveland Tuesday night. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The C's just weren't able to put the Cavs away. I bet Austin Carr wet his pants on the Cleveland broadcast with this Cavs win.
MD!
MD!
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by gyso Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:53 am
mrkleen09 wrote:I have never said this out here, but I blame this loss on Doc.
He made a tactical mistake in the 4th quarter that cost them the game. With 5 minutes left, he had KG and Pierce on the bench - and was going with the second unit. As Cleveland started to make their run, he did not come back with the starters as he usually does....he let the bench play too long.
When he finally did bring back Pierce and KG....they were both ice cold, and unable to hit shots down the stretch.
He should have either stayed with the bench - or gone to the starters earlier.
Not much else to say.
mrkleen,
That was what I was thinking as well. Less than 5 minutes to go, close game and the camera pans to show Pierce sitting on the bench. While I am in the "Play the young guys" camp, that was not the time for that.
gyso
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by 112288 Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:39 am
SOMEONE ELSE IS PISSED AT DOC BESIDES US!
Decision doesn’t sit well with Paul Pierce
By Mark Murphy
Many things ruined Paul Pierce [stats]’s evening last night. His seven turnovers, which pushed his fumble total up to 13 over the last two games, had to top the list. He was on the floor for the last 3:42 of a 12-0 Cleveland run that wiped out an 11-point Celtics [team stats] lead and replaced it with an 88-87 Cavaliers win.
It wasn’t a healthy way for the Celtics captain and his teammates to end a four-game win streak, or to drop back under .500. But in a rare fit of pique, Pierce chose to question coach Doc Rivers’ decision that left him on the bench until that last 3:42.
Asked if the result would have been different if he’d checked back in sooner, Pierce said, “I wish I was a fortune teller. I don’t think this would have been the outcome, though.” Asked if he was disappointed by Rivers’ decision, he said, “No comment,” but also said, “Maybe I should play a little more.”
Pierce later said, “It’s not his job to explain that. The coaches make their decisions. But at the time we had a pretty good lead, so I could understand it.”
Rivers, on the other hand, felt he had good reason to be unhappy with Pierce’s play last night. And the coach discounted the theory that Pierce’s turnovers are a byproduct of his added playmaking duties while Rajon Rondo [stats] recovers from a sprained right wrist.
“It’s a byproduct of just doing too much,” Rivers said. “You don’t have to do too much, whether we go to you every time or not. When he shot the ball we were pretty good. He was 8-(of-)12. He jokingly said, ‘If I shoot it and don’t pass it I would be better,’ and today that was true. But we like the ball in his hands. Lately he’s turned it over but he’s been pretty good.”
Pierce had to agree with that much.
“I turned the ball over too much today,” he said.
“That’s the difference in the game. Turning the ball over every time. It’s just lazy passes. I’m more upset with losing than not getting back in there. I would have liked to have been in there to finish off the game, but the coaches make their decisions. At the time you can understand when we have an eight-point lead that they want to rest the guys. It’s a double-edged sword.”
112288
Decision doesn’t sit well with Paul Pierce
By Mark Murphy
Many things ruined Paul Pierce [stats]’s evening last night. His seven turnovers, which pushed his fumble total up to 13 over the last two games, had to top the list. He was on the floor for the last 3:42 of a 12-0 Cleveland run that wiped out an 11-point Celtics [team stats] lead and replaced it with an 88-87 Cavaliers win.
It wasn’t a healthy way for the Celtics captain and his teammates to end a four-game win streak, or to drop back under .500. But in a rare fit of pique, Pierce chose to question coach Doc Rivers’ decision that left him on the bench until that last 3:42.
Asked if the result would have been different if he’d checked back in sooner, Pierce said, “I wish I was a fortune teller. I don’t think this would have been the outcome, though.” Asked if he was disappointed by Rivers’ decision, he said, “No comment,” but also said, “Maybe I should play a little more.”
Pierce later said, “It’s not his job to explain that. The coaches make their decisions. But at the time we had a pretty good lead, so I could understand it.”
Rivers, on the other hand, felt he had good reason to be unhappy with Pierce’s play last night. And the coach discounted the theory that Pierce’s turnovers are a byproduct of his added playmaking duties while Rajon Rondo [stats] recovers from a sprained right wrist.
“It’s a byproduct of just doing too much,” Rivers said. “You don’t have to do too much, whether we go to you every time or not. When he shot the ball we were pretty good. He was 8-(of-)12. He jokingly said, ‘If I shoot it and don’t pass it I would be better,’ and today that was true. But we like the ball in his hands. Lately he’s turned it over but he’s been pretty good.”
Pierce had to agree with that much.
“I turned the ball over too much today,” he said.
“That’s the difference in the game. Turning the ball over every time. It’s just lazy passes. I’m more upset with losing than not getting back in there. I would have liked to have been in there to finish off the game, but the coaches make their decisions. At the time you can understand when we have an eight-point lead that they want to rest the guys. It’s a double-edged sword.”
112288
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by sinus007 Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:59 am
Hi,
Yeah, it's a stupid loss. Hard to point an individual responsible for it. I'd say it was a team effort (coach including).
I hope tomorrow they won't repeat it.
AK
Yeah, it's a stupid loss. Hard to point an individual responsible for it. I'd say it was a team effort (coach including).
I hope tomorrow they won't repeat it.
AK
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by rickdavisakaspike Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:19 am
This playing time issue is going to drag on all season. While I agree that Paul should have been reinserted sooner, this should not be taken to mean that he needs to play 40 minutes every game for the team to win. The Celtics lost because this was Cleveland and there was a surprising amount of overconfidence.
Doc is a decent bench coach. He knows what's going on, communicates well and makes adjustments. Nevertheless, it's quite possible that managing minutes is not his strongest bench coach skill. One of the reasons some of the players on the 1967 Celtics team gave for losing to Philly was rookie coach Bill Russell's handling of substitutions, particularly not reinserting Bailey Howell in the fourth quarter of the final game. It's a skill that Bill had to learn and part of that involved Havlicek whispering in his ear.
Maybe Paul should sit beside Doc when he's not in the game and whisper in his ear. At this point I'd be willing to try anything because, with the league as discombobulated as it is, a healthy winning streak could put the Celtics right near the top of the standings. When Rondo comes back, Doc's going to think back on this game and say, "Never should have taken Paul out, should've played Paul, KG and Ray the whole game."
Doc is a decent bench coach. He knows what's going on, communicates well and makes adjustments. Nevertheless, it's quite possible that managing minutes is not his strongest bench coach skill. One of the reasons some of the players on the 1967 Celtics team gave for losing to Philly was rookie coach Bill Russell's handling of substitutions, particularly not reinserting Bailey Howell in the fourth quarter of the final game. It's a skill that Bill had to learn and part of that involved Havlicek whispering in his ear.
Maybe Paul should sit beside Doc when he's not in the game and whisper in his ear. At this point I'd be willing to try anything because, with the league as discombobulated as it is, a healthy winning streak could put the Celtics right near the top of the standings. When Rondo comes back, Doc's going to think back on this game and say, "Never should have taken Paul out, should've played Paul, KG and Ray the whole game."
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by mrkleen09 Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:25 am
No one is talking about playing Pierce the whole game. Nor is anyone (aside from yourself) saying that Doc has a problem with substitutions etc.
He let the starters sit for too long and it cost him. As far as I can see, this was an isolated incident....and frankly, our bench should be able to beat the Cleveland starters.
He let the starters sit for too long and it cost him. As far as I can see, this was an isolated incident....and frankly, our bench should be able to beat the Cleveland starters.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by rickdavisakaspike Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:12 am
"Asked if he was disappointed by Rivers’ decision, he [Pierce] said, “No comment,” but also said, “Maybe I should play a little more.”"
Paul would like to play the full 48 minutes. Nothing wrong with that; if anyone could do it effectively, it would be Paul. And if he did, he'd look like he did at the end of last season - tired and old. So Doc has the disagreeable task of sitting him occasionally.
IMHO, last game Doc thought the Cavs were under control and he could take a chance and rest Paul. Unfortunately, the decision bit him on the ass.
I do think Doc has a substitution problem and he was working on it and it blew up in his face.
Now what? If he plays the guys making the big bucks, no one can fault him because they're all-stars and it's what they get paid for. So that's what he's going to do. I'm hoping for the best. And I don't blame him. It's what Red would've done.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by beat Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:17 am
rickdavisakaspike wrote:
Doc is a decent bench coach. He knows what's going on, communicates well and makes adjustments. Nevertheless, it's quite possible that managing minutes is not his strongest bench coach skill. One of the reasons some of the players on the 1967 Celtics team gave for losing to Philly was rookie coach Bill Russell's handling of substitutions, particularly not reinserting Bailey Howell in the fourth quarter of the final game. It's a skill that Bill had to learn and part of that involved Havlicek whispering in his ear.
Hey Spike that was a 5 game series, we lost it 1-4 and the final game got trounced 116-140 so I don't think putting Bailey Howell in the fourth would have mattered much.
I do agree with Mrkleen in that the Celtics that were on the Court should have been able to take this one home during the course of the final quarter and 5 minutes. I really have a hard time with blaiming Doc for waiting to sub PP and KG back in, they should be ready to go in anytime, just looks a bit iffy when they go out there and can't do much right. Players missed the shots and turned it over not Doc. Just my opinion.
beat
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by bobheckler Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:26 pm
The Cleveland Cavaliers "Orlando Magicked" us. The Celtics thought they could toy with these guys all night. In the first half they were happy trading baskets. Why work hard on defense, it's tiring, right? We knocked them down in the 3rd and thought we could coast from there against these bums. A final 12-0 run for a comeback victory by dem bums was deserved. They fought all game, never gave up and caught us when we went cold and sloppy.
Starters are expected to step out onto the floor ready to play. That's part of what it means to be a starter. Veteran teams, like us, can't complain about "being cold". Execution is execution is execution and we didn't execute the last half of the 4th quarter. We turned the ball over 3 times in the last 3:24, missed bunnies by Pierce and Allen and didn't stop Irving or Varajao. Missed layups isn't about being cold, it's about focusing and finishing. Two guys, Pierce and Allen, who can make layups in their sleep, didn't. I only saw two starters play with energy and intensity all game, misses notwithstanding, and they are Bass and Allen. Everybody else got outworked, it seemed to me.
1. Our perimeter defense, which had been stellar the past week, stunk last night. We didn't keep anybody from penetrating.
2. Our transition defense, which had been stellar the past week, stunk last night. They ran up and down the court on us.
3. Kyrie Irving is going to be a helluva player. He's already really good, but I think he's going to get even better. I like his game better than John Wall's. Wall only knows one speed, and that's blinding fast, but you can play that. Irving played at multiple speeds last night and Bradley didn't know what to do about that. A difference between a true starting guard, like Rondo, and a one-trick pony, like Bradley is that Irving still might have scored his points, but Rondo would have made him pay at the other end. Bradley's defense is usually outstanding, but when it's not, what does he offer? Dooling was out again too. I suppose I should be happy with whatever we get out of our 3rd string guard, especially when he's playing an NBA #1 pick, right?
4. Anderson Varajao is a pest. He bangs the boards and players, flops like a fish on a dock, can't shoot from outside spitoon distance and is the first one on the floor for clutch loose balls. All his offense comes off of his direct effort on the boards or by virtue of an assist off a well-executed give-and-go or pick-and-roll. He was a difference maker last night with his energy and hustle. Some things never change.
5. The middle of our bench looked weak. Wilcox didn't show much, Pietrus had an off shooting night and Daniels was invisible.
6. As far as the end of our bench goes I thought Steamer looked better than he had in the past week, Moore looked pretty good moving on offense but couldn't stay in front of his man on defense, only Sasha looked smooth. A jumpshot straight off a jumpball, drive to the hoop and more good defense for Sasha. A lightbulb turned on over his head. Too bad it didn't happen when he was starting.
7. They played "in our shirts" defense all game. All game. They didn't play us fullcourt, but as soon as we were near the 3pt line there was a Cavalier right up on us. Great energy, great sustained focus by Byron Scott's team.
8. On the Game On thread Sam mentioned that 26 of the Cavalier's first 35 points were in the paint. That's pretty bad considering they don't have a center (or, at least, they don't play one. Erden is in Scott's doghouse). Those "in the paint" points were penetration and transition points. Very porous defense by the Celtics, especially in the 1st half. We regressed to where we were the first week of this season on defense.
9. Our guys stood around. When a player got into trouble, nobody came to help them. No motion to the offense. Everybody just stood around and waited for a pass. That made us much easier to defend and Cleveland really put effort into defense last night.
A very frustrating and unnecessary loss against a team that doesn't have the talent we do. All they had going for them was heart, and a pretty good point guard.
bob
.
Starters are expected to step out onto the floor ready to play. That's part of what it means to be a starter. Veteran teams, like us, can't complain about "being cold". Execution is execution is execution and we didn't execute the last half of the 4th quarter. We turned the ball over 3 times in the last 3:24, missed bunnies by Pierce and Allen and didn't stop Irving or Varajao. Missed layups isn't about being cold, it's about focusing and finishing. Two guys, Pierce and Allen, who can make layups in their sleep, didn't. I only saw two starters play with energy and intensity all game, misses notwithstanding, and they are Bass and Allen. Everybody else got outworked, it seemed to me.
1. Our perimeter defense, which had been stellar the past week, stunk last night. We didn't keep anybody from penetrating.
2. Our transition defense, which had been stellar the past week, stunk last night. They ran up and down the court on us.
3. Kyrie Irving is going to be a helluva player. He's already really good, but I think he's going to get even better. I like his game better than John Wall's. Wall only knows one speed, and that's blinding fast, but you can play that. Irving played at multiple speeds last night and Bradley didn't know what to do about that. A difference between a true starting guard, like Rondo, and a one-trick pony, like Bradley is that Irving still might have scored his points, but Rondo would have made him pay at the other end. Bradley's defense is usually outstanding, but when it's not, what does he offer? Dooling was out again too. I suppose I should be happy with whatever we get out of our 3rd string guard, especially when he's playing an NBA #1 pick, right?
4. Anderson Varajao is a pest. He bangs the boards and players, flops like a fish on a dock, can't shoot from outside spitoon distance and is the first one on the floor for clutch loose balls. All his offense comes off of his direct effort on the boards or by virtue of an assist off a well-executed give-and-go or pick-and-roll. He was a difference maker last night with his energy and hustle. Some things never change.
5. The middle of our bench looked weak. Wilcox didn't show much, Pietrus had an off shooting night and Daniels was invisible.
6. As far as the end of our bench goes I thought Steamer looked better than he had in the past week, Moore looked pretty good moving on offense but couldn't stay in front of his man on defense, only Sasha looked smooth. A jumpshot straight off a jumpball, drive to the hoop and more good defense for Sasha. A lightbulb turned on over his head. Too bad it didn't happen when he was starting.
7. They played "in our shirts" defense all game. All game. They didn't play us fullcourt, but as soon as we were near the 3pt line there was a Cavalier right up on us. Great energy, great sustained focus by Byron Scott's team.
8. On the Game On thread Sam mentioned that 26 of the Cavalier's first 35 points were in the paint. That's pretty bad considering they don't have a center (or, at least, they don't play one. Erden is in Scott's doghouse). Those "in the paint" points were penetration and transition points. Very porous defense by the Celtics, especially in the 1st half. We regressed to where we were the first week of this season on defense.
9. Our guys stood around. When a player got into trouble, nobody came to help them. No motion to the offense. Everybody just stood around and waited for a pass. That made us much easier to defend and Cleveland really put effort into defense last night.
A very frustrating and unnecessary loss against a team that doesn't have the talent we do. All they had going for them was heart, and a pretty good point guard.
bob
.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by NYCelt Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:44 pm
bobheckler wrote:
...
4. Anderson Varajao is a pest. He bangs the boards and players, flops like a fish on a dock, can't shoot from outside spitoon distance and is the first one on the floor for clutch loose balls. All his offense comes off of his direct effort on the boards or by virtue of an assist off a well-executed give-and-go or pick-and-roll. He was a difference maker last night with his energy and hustle. Some things never change.
9. Our guys stood around. When a player got into trouble, nobody came to help them. No motion to the offense. Everybody just stood around and waited for a pass. That made us much easier to defend and Cleveland really put effort into defense last night.
A very frustrating and unnecessary loss against a team that doesn't have the talent we do. All they had going for them was heart, and a pretty good point guard.
bob
.
Bingo
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by mrkleen09 Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:59 pm
bobheckler wrote: Veteran teams, like us, can't complain about "being cold".
Bob
I agree with most of your other points, just cant agree with this one. As we all know, the older you get - the harder it is to get the old engine lubed up. If you want a veteran team playing the best ball to close a game, you have to get them into game before 3 minutes remain. Paul Pierce is not one to make excuses, so the fact that he said basically the same thing speaks volumes.
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by Outside Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:34 pm
I think you need to look at the Pierce/KG substitution thing through the lens of how Doc has to manage the team during this compressed schedule. Doc has to look for games when he can take advantage of leads against weaker competition to rest his creaky starters.
When exactly was he supposed to put in KG and Pierce? With 6:09 left, after Bass made a jumper that put the C's up by 11 and forced Cleveland to call a timeout? With 4:24 left and the C's still up by 11? He had Ray out there with guys who have been doing a good job over the past week, and if he can finish off the game with them, then it's a bonus because Ray can put some time in after being off and Paul and KG can rest, which is an important objective this season.
And KG was in from the start of the fourth quarter until 8:33, when he came out for Ray. So sitting for five minutes of game time is no excuse for him, considering that's a normal substitution pattern for him.
So all we're left with is that Paul was cold. And one guy being cold is the reason they didn't score a point the rest of the way?
The Cleveland game was after one day of rest, which came after a back-to-back where Pierce played 44 minutes and 34 minutes. If he puts Pierce in with six minutes to go and they win going away by 16, how many people would criticize Doc for not resting Pierce?
There will be games like this during this season because of the compressed schedule. Doc has to take risks with his substitutions, and the C's will be better off if he errs on the side of resting the veterans too much rather than playing them too much.
Outside
When exactly was he supposed to put in KG and Pierce? With 6:09 left, after Bass made a jumper that put the C's up by 11 and forced Cleveland to call a timeout? With 4:24 left and the C's still up by 11? He had Ray out there with guys who have been doing a good job over the past week, and if he can finish off the game with them, then it's a bonus because Ray can put some time in after being off and Paul and KG can rest, which is an important objective this season.
And KG was in from the start of the fourth quarter until 8:33, when he came out for Ray. So sitting for five minutes of game time is no excuse for him, considering that's a normal substitution pattern for him.
So all we're left with is that Paul was cold. And one guy being cold is the reason they didn't score a point the rest of the way?
The Cleveland game was after one day of rest, which came after a back-to-back where Pierce played 44 minutes and 34 minutes. If he puts Pierce in with six minutes to go and they win going away by 16, how many people would criticize Doc for not resting Pierce?
There will be games like this during this season because of the compressed schedule. Doc has to take risks with his substitutions, and the C's will be better off if he errs on the side of resting the veterans too much rather than playing them too much.
Outside
Outside- Posts : 3019
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by mrkleen09 Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:48 pm
Pierce has been hot the past week. Pierce has been not only scoring, but distributing, rebounding, stealing the ball - doing it all.
Regardless of who was on the court, it was clear they were struggling to move the ball and struggling to get into their offense.
Pierce is the closer for this team. Has been for 13+ years. I dont think this has ever come up before to be honest, and if someone hits a shot or two more...it remains a non issue.
It happens. But for me, several other people out here, and Paul himself to all comment on the fact that it was surprising he was not in the game before the last 2 minutes - and it cost the team a game they should have won.
Regardless of who was on the court, it was clear they were struggling to move the ball and struggling to get into their offense.
Pierce is the closer for this team. Has been for 13+ years. I dont think this has ever come up before to be honest, and if someone hits a shot or two more...it remains a non issue.
It happens. But for me, several other people out here, and Paul himself to all comment on the fact that it was surprising he was not in the game before the last 2 minutes - and it cost the team a game they should have won.
mrkleen09- Posts : 3873
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 55
Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by bobheckler Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:07 pm
mrkleen09 wrote:bobheckler wrote: Veteran teams, like us, can't complain about "being cold".
Bob
I agree with most of your other points, just cant agree with this one. As we all know, the older you get - the harder it is to get the old engine lubed up. If you want a veteran team playing the best ball to close a game, you have to get them into game before 3 minutes remain. Paul Pierce is not one to make excuses, so the fact that he said basically the same thing speaks volumes.
MrKleen,
I respect your dissenting view and that it is in agreement with Pierce's. Still, I don't see how it can be fair to say that bench players are supposed to "stay ready" and contribute quickly (who knows how long they'll be in) but more talented and, in this case, far more experienced starters shouldn't be expected to? If Paul Pierce needs a running start to be productive, maybe that's a problem right there. Based upon my observations, that hasn't been true. Why now? He's frustrated we lost a game we shouldn't have lost. Fair enough, but his level of play was a mixed bag last night and his plaint of "I should have been on the floor" is what you'd hear any leader say. Kobe could shoot 10-30 and still complain about not being on the floor. Why? Because he's a leader who wants to lead from the front. Same with Pierce.
Every player wants to play through slumps. In baseball, batters want to keep swinging; in basketball, shooters want to keep shooting. By Pierce's own statements he was turning the ball over too much and he was doing it when he was playing as many minutes as he could have asked for.
If Pierce had hit his layup, we would have won. Think he'd still be pissed now?
bob
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Re: POST GAME CLEVELAND - HOME
by mrkleen09 Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:22 pm
I think if you are playing well (ok, not particularly last night - but over the last week) and you are at home and watching a lead evaporate - yes, you are still pissed if you are not put in.
Almost every time I am watching a game, if I see the bench losing momentum - i say to my girl, OK - time to put the starters....and what happens, shortly Doc gets them up. Last night, I felt that he waited too long and it was uncharacteristic for him to miss the momentum change, as Doc usually has a real good feel for it.
You want Pierce to finish big games. You want him to feel like he can hit any shot. You want him to take it upon himself to carry the team down the stretch. If that is the case - you need to get him in the game sooner.
I appreciate your opinion and thanks for your well considered replies.
Almost every time I am watching a game, if I see the bench losing momentum - i say to my girl, OK - time to put the starters....and what happens, shortly Doc gets them up. Last night, I felt that he waited too long and it was uncharacteristic for him to miss the momentum change, as Doc usually has a real good feel for it.
You want Pierce to finish big games. You want him to feel like he can hit any shot. You want him to take it upon himself to carry the team down the stretch. If that is the case - you need to get him in the game sooner.
I appreciate your opinion and thanks for your well considered replies.
mrkleen09- Posts : 3873
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 55
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