Celtics in trade talks to send Doc Rivers, Kevin Garnett to Clippers

cowens/oldschool wrote:I believe KG is owed 12 mill




Cow,

$11,532,468, to be precise.  2014, $12,000,000.


bob


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sam wrote:Cow,

Your "post" was actually TWO separate posts—first the one with the the "not bright" term and then the other with the "stupidity" term.  They added up to considerably more than five words.  It was definitely not my imagination.

Best regards.

Sam

sorry Sam I know exactly what I wrote and 112288 as my witness there was no word stupidity in there.

112288 wrote:Correct! And Danny wins too....he gets Doc to coach! I just think got bad advice from whom ever advises him.

112288

mmmmm, from What is Value? wrote:
What, exactly, can Jordan realistically improve on?
He’s not going to get much more athletic than he already is. So the dunks and blocks and rebounds are probably going to stay about the same.
He could learn to play a little better on help & P&R defense – those are still weaknesses, and there is no reason he couldn’t improve with them.
But just don’t have any hope he’ll ever, EVER improve that horrible shooting form. He will likely never have any offensive game that is farther than 3 feet from the basket. And he will likely always be a miserable, 40% FT shooter.
He will never be a 30 minute player. He will never be someone you want on the floor in the 4th quarter or OT.

mmmmm, from Celtics may be willing to accept two draft picks instead of cap savings wrote:
Historically, the value of the 25th pick
Star: 5%
Solid Starter: 5%
Role Player: 25%
Deep Bench: 50%
Bust: 10%
DNP: 5%

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

That’s fairly representative of what you can expect of any mid-late first round pick.
Basically, one of those picks has a 65% chance of being no better than a deep bench player.
And only a 10% chance of being at least starter quality or better.

smamtheking, from Celtics may be willing to accept two draft picks instead of cap savings wrote:
I don't get the sense of desperation by Danny to do this deal
nothing about this deal is a winner for the C’s.
- Jordan is a very flawed player without much to point to in terms of potential left to realize.
- There’s no Bledsoe to use as a chip in a subsequent deal.
- Butler is not the player he once was — he’s an expensive back up to Jeff Green and he’s a much more expensive contract than either JET or Lee (although shorter).
- Whether we get the 2013 or 2014 pick, it’ll still be a late pick in the draft. Although 2014 is expected to be a really good and deep draft, it’ll still be at a point where we’ll be fortunate to get a end-of-rotation player.
- a 2017 pick would only be helpful if CP3, Griffin and the key piece they get for trading Bledsoe to someone else is gone after 2016, the Clips take a nosedive, that pick is unprotected so that it won’t flip to a second rounder AND that draft isn’t weak at the top like this draft.
I’d rather run it back with this group one more year and see if a healthy Rondo/Sully, an improved Green and a hopefully returned-to-normal year for Lee, JET and Bass gets us better results.
I do not enjoy the thought of having to watch Jordan brick FTs all season and lose us games.

celticd, from Celtics may be willing to accept two draft picks instead of cap savings wrote:


clippers doin the celtcs dirty.
dj’s main relevance in the entire trade is his unreasonably high contract to make the numbers work. yes he has talent, but that talent is overpriced, and he does the same thing as chris wilcox who the celtics can keep payin in veteran minimum contracts. the only difference is dj is younger, but i wouldnt pay someone an extra 11-12M just for bein younger.
then the clippers are bein stingy wit their already whack draft picks, and eric bledsoe knowin very well he’s the real prize in all of this.
then the clips keep talkin about absorbing lee or terry’s contract like they’re only doin the celtics a favor. yes i agree terry becomes redundant wen u have crawford but courtney lee could be of good service to the clippers as their starting 2 if chauncey doesnt wanna return (there were rumors he was interested in miami?).
then if the trade goes down the celtics will likely waive pierce where he’ll likely go to the clippers for the MLE. so its like they’re trading Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Doc Rivers for Deandre Jordan and 2 late first round picks.
overall i think its a whack trade where the clippers are tryna buy a gold bar wit a silver coin and a couple of bronze ones. im all for rebuilding but nah this isnt a gud deal to me. if this is the only offer the celtics have, i’d rather run it back.

mmmmm, from Celtics may be willing to accept two draft picks instead of cap savings wrote:
No. Even Shaq looked like Ray Allen at the FT line compared to Deandre Jordan.
You guys just aren’t really grokking how historically bad he is.
Shaq was a ‘bad’ FT shooter, but at least shot well above 50% - often around 60%. That’s bad. But not a total liability.
Jordan has consistently been around a 40% FT shooter most of his college and NBA career. He did pop up to 52% one season – but that was based on a relatively small number of shots. He got hot for a stretch. He dropped back to 39% last year.
This is not just ‘bad’. This is atrocious.

gburtona, from Celtics may be willing to accept two draft picks instead of cap savings wrote:
Jordan’s woes at the foul line only adds to the already existing problem with Rajon Rondo. Rondo is amont the worst free throw shooters for his position which would give Boston two liabilities late in games.
Boston often got away with it by having Pierce be the primarily ball handler in late game sets but that may not be an option going forward.
It makes simple things such as inbounding the ball tougher because the oppostion knows the Celtics don’t want Jordan or Rondo at the line.
Not to mention losing KG as he is a great foul shooter and presents the option of shooting or passing to a teammate which Jordan does not possess.
Avery isn’t a great option either as his poor ball handling and often atrocious playmaking skills make him better off the ball instead of facilitating the offense.
The prospects of potential closing game lineups without KG and/or Pierce is a frightening thought…

mmmmm, from Where do the Celtics go from here? Post failed deal fallout wrote:
Spurs youngsters
the only real difference between what the Spurs have done with gathering young talent and what the Celtics have done is stay healthy.
The C’s, through high value, high upside picks outside the lottery and the Perkins trade have at least 4 young pieces, Green, Rondo, Avery & Sully who are all top-tier young talents who are good enough to start on any good team. [They may or may not have a 5th in Fab – but the jury is still way out on him.]

The problem for us in the comparison with the Spurs – is that every one of our 4 young studs has missed extended time in the last 3 years.

If those guys had been healthy throughout the last 3 years? Folks would have a very different view on things right now.

If they stay healthy going forward? That’s a great core to build around.

Needs a solid young 7 footer though. :-D

mmmmm, from Where do the Celtics go from here? Post failed deal fallout wrote:
One can otherwise sit and pick out anecdotal cases one way or another.

Ultimately, I look over the Spurs roster and I see, of the top 10 players by minutes played this season, 5 of them were over 30 and 5 were between 21 and 28.

On the Boston roster, of the top 10 players by minutes played, 4 of them were over 30 and 6 were between 20 and 27.
The biggest difference is that on the Celtics’s roster, the total minutes of 3 of the young players (Avery, Rondo & Sully) were clipped to under 1500 minutes each because of extended time injuries. That forced some of those top 10 minutes onto some of the older players.
On the Spurs, their young studs managed to play all or most of the games of the season, lightening the load a little on the older guys.

Our roster is just as dependent on young players for it’s main rotation as the Spurs. Our top 7 players right now by importance would include Rondo, Green, Bradley, Sully & Bass — all between ages 20 and 27. The thing that killed us this year is we didn’t have all those guys healthy and productive at the same time but for a tiny sliver at mid-season

mmmmm, from Where do the Celtics go from here? Post failed deal fallout wrote:
“before the injuries hit” <—- that is a time that never was.

Avery started the season on the inactive list and didn’t play until January. He’s a starter, if you recall. And one of our 5 most talented players.

Green was ‘active’ but pretty obviously not fully recovered from his long rehab until mid season. So he might as well have been absent in the first half. But he clearly, in the second half, showed that he is one of our most talented and important players.

Wilcox spent most of the Fall with a back injury followed by a thumb injury that never fully healed and so was also set way back in his own rehab from heart surgery. He is not as important as Bradley or Green, but his absence really hurt the team in the first half.

It is complete mythology to suggest that this team was ever ‘before the injuries’ last year.

And just when we got Avery back and Green finally started to play well, we lost Rondo & Sully – two starters. And then Barbosa, a top rotation player when he went down.

Basically almost the whole season was played with out at least TWO of our top 6 players missing all the time.

I agree that there will probably indeed be changes to the roster before the summer is over. But even without changes, it would be impossible to put the same team back on the court next year because the team we have on roster right now never played together last year.

mmmmm, from Where do the Celtics go from here? Post failed deal fallout wrote:
Bradley and Green are part - critical parts - of our 'core' though.
You don’t win with 3 or 4 players. Isn’t that the point of the Spurs model that everyone is in love with (me too, btw)? If you don’t have a ‘Big 3’ of uber elite like Miami, then you need a solid core of 6 talented players to win.

We never had more than 4 of our 6 most talented players (PP, KG, RR, JG, AB, JS) healthy and productive all season (except for a tiny handful of games in early January).

If San Antonio had to go half the season without Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard, and then the second half without Splitter and Neal – how well do you think they would have faired?