Celtics in trade talks to send Doc Rivers, Kevin Garnett to Clippers

I think Jordan would have been an overall upgrade at center.  Not great from the charity line but tough as nails.  Runs well, decent defender and accomplished shot blocker, just get him the ball inside and he's automatic.  For stats lovers, led the league in FG%.  A good upgrade over KG at center and at $20 mil for 2 years (with Clips picking up the 3.5 mil trade-kicker as proposed, not us) would have given us a stronger player than KG at both ends for 2 mil less per year.  If we could shed Pierce from there as would have been probable we would have opened up just enough room to start looking for another complimentary player to sign.  A shot at playing on a team with Jordan, Rondo and Green would not have been an unattractive thought.  Not the top center in the league but closer to the upper tier with no clear prospect to be more than a sub coming in this year's draft.  A missed opportunity to get the center we need and unload a diminishing player that few other teams are likely to even look at while also moving a coach that has lost his desire to be here.  No, it wouldn't have been a good move; it would have been an excellent move.

KG can't play the minutes anymore, you need a legit backup center for while he sits, but when he is in he is the best team defense and baseline defender in the league.  He is a game changer.

Doc is the second best coach in the league and perhaps the best on plays after timeouts.  Did he have a good playoffs this year?  I wasn't around to watch them, but one year does not obliterate a career regardless.

DeAndre Jordan shoots fgs like Ryan Hollins, shoots fts like Ben Wallace (Wallace shot .414 for his career, Jordan is shooting .424 but regressed last year and only shot 38%.  He makes Dwight Howard look like Calvin Murphy), rebounds worse per minute than Kris Humphries, who is not a center, and is not a strong on-the-ball defender, having virtually all his success coming from the weak side.  He also averages .3 assists against 1.1 TOs, and that's career/game.  Last year, he only had .3 assists and 1.2 TOs per game.  They say you cannot teach size.  That's lucky for DeAndre Jordan, because if you could teach size he'd be out of a job, replaced by a player with more talent and who works harder.

A game changer plus an elite coach for a player who is Perk without his tough man-to-man defense and is essentially inept on offense and a late first round pick?

That's a bad deal for the Celtics.  We'll get a better offer a year from now with KG's contract in its final year.  He'll be a salary dump for some team, KG will retire rather than put on another uniform and play for another coach or maybe this same package will be sweetened by some other team not owned by someone who owns a team just so he can hobnob with the Hollywood A-listers, and our side will be better than this.  I do not see Jordan as a player I want on the Celtics longterm.  He is a project, still, and he is in his 5th year.


bob


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Sam, Gyso, and Bob H,
Thanks for sticking up for Danny. Those who urge his removal have little sense of how masterfully he's done a difficult job over the years and have blamed him for circumstances (injuries and health issues) beyond his control.

As for saying Doc is the 2nd best coach in the NBA, I thought so too until I watched how Pop handled the 4th quarter of last night's loss to the Heat. He left Parker and Tim on the bench too long to start the quarter, but even worse, he let Manu play way too much - long enough to commit 8 or 9 crucial turnovers! Anyone could see Manu was way off his game. His was one of the worst playoff performances I have ever seen by a starter. Ever. Pop's loyalty to Manu overshadowed his judgment and cost them the game. I'll be amazed if the Spurs can win Game 7 given how tired and demoralized they must now feel.

Now I think Doc is the best coach in the NBA.

Not a ton of time today so please forgive my quick reply without details.

I have to disagree with a few here I often see things in a similar way with...

KG will probably only decline further and faster, is no longer an elite anything.  Plays out of position and can no longer bang with quicker, stronger 4's and 5's.

Doc needs to go; he obviously doesn't want to be here.

I'd take the next 2 years with Jordan instead of KG and call it much better odds at a slightly lower cost.  Jordan is much more accomplished than he's being painted here...easy enough to go find some video if needed; there's good and bad but the good is more than sufficient.

I think this is one of the more enjoyable debates we've had a chance at in a long time and I've got meetings followed by a double-header tonight.  That work thing is getting in the way again!

P.S. to Worcester; is there no end to the photos of attractive women you know?  Forget who should trade for who, I think most guys just need to come down there and hang around with you for a while.

NY Celt ... the lovely Irina is in the D league right now. She lives in NYC which is quite a jaunt for me from Florida. For her to be brought up to the show, it is I who have to step up MY game. That said, she's perhaps the brightest, most artistically talented, and prettiest gal I've dated in a long, long time. The trick for me has always been to be a good listener.

Sam,

In addition to the trading of Glen Davis, I forgot to clarify free agency dealings. Ainge should have done more to keep Tony Allen. Once a team starts losing the support players that helped to define the team's identity, the decline ensues. I'm sure that had Davis and Allen still been on this team, MIA would've been beaten last year, because it takes tough players to win. Ainge struck it rich for one season and that was it. I haven't seen him make many good deals recently.

gyso,

There was a possibility of moving PP for Smith some time before the trade deadline. And Eric Bledsoe and D Jordan were originally on the table before the trade deadline (In Feb?) but Ainge stood pat instead, knowing they'd be harder to move after the season was finished. I wasn't referring to this most recent trade discussion.

worcester,

I'm not blaming him for the injuries players have suffered. I blame him for not making moves when he needed to and now it shows more than ever. Smart GMs don't hang onto players past the time when it's necessary to move them. Ainge has done just that, which can only mean one of two things:

1) Ainge didn't realize PP and KG were truly on their way out and figured they had a few more good years left. And if he figured something like that, he probably doesn't understand age and its affect on basketball, in which case he shouldn't be a GM anywhere anyway. 

-or- 

2) He knew the clock was ticking and chose to not do anything and is willfully neglecting his job as GM.

I know that LAC was going to pick up the cost of the trade kicker, not us.  My point (above) was that if we were just trading for DeAndre Jordan as a "asset", his salary (already too much for a player of his ilk) would approach untradeable status.

For those who said Jeff Green got over-paid in his last contract, how about this guy??

DeAndre Jordan is not a player I want on the court in a close game in the 4th quarter and certainly not in OT.

We'd be way better off drafting Gorgui Dieng and keeping KG.

gyso

gyso,

How much time does KG have left? Maybe another season at most. If winning now is the motive, and the team will stay together, then Ainge better do something impressive or he's just wasting time. I'm sure that a healthy Boston would've at least reached the 2nd round. But the deficiencies in the post would kill any chance of winning the East (imagine trying to contend with Roy Hibbert with this roster). I'm not saying Jordan is a great improvement, but he does fill a need at Center.

Eventually, this team will have to get used to the idea of not having PP and KG to rely on. Is it wise to delay for another year?

Patience, grasshoppers, patience...



Clippers, Celtics could re-engage in talks for Doc Rivers and Kevin Garnett, according to report
By Satchel Price on Jun 19 2013, 1:37p @SatchelPrice 12
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Grant Halverson
Zombie trade rumor! The Celtics and Clippers may look to bring talks for Rivers and KG back from the dead prior to next week's NBA Draft.



The Los Angeles Clippers and Boston Celtics will likely re-engage in trade talks regarding Doc Rivers and Kevin Garnett prior to the NBA Draft on June 27, according to Mark Heisler of SportsCity.com. This marks the latest possible resuscitation of an on-again, off-again deal between the two sides.



Unless the Clippers opt to go in a different direction and hire a new head coach before the draft, Heisler's sources seem confident negotiations for Rivers and KG will start again. In the previously discussed scenario, Boston would receive DeAndre Jordan and other assets in exchange for Garnett while giving L.A. the right to hire away Rivers.

Because Rivers is still under contract for three years as the highest-paid coach in the NBA, the Celtics won't simply let him walk without any compensation. That's led to heated negotiations between Boston and L.A. as the Clippers hope to pry the championship-winning coach away.


With the team's focus ultimately on hiring Rivers, rather than acquiring KG, hiring another coach would indicate Los Angeles going in a different direction. Lionel Hollins,Brian Shaw and Byron Scott have all met with the Clippers recently, so the team has alternatives should Boston's demands be too steep.








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The Fat Lady is taking a nap. She's not quite ready to sing.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228241/Clippers-Celtics-Reopen-Rivers-Garnett-Talks
 they be at it again

Adrian W of Yahoo says the Clippers "reached out" to the Celtics to resume talks.


Also, another report says that "a source close to Doc" has adamantly said that he wants to coach and DOES NOT buy the "he may go into broadcasting" thing.

So, who sounds like they're in the power position?  The people who walked away but are now coming back, the coach who claims it's time for a change but maybe he'll take some time off and do broadcasting Or the guy who acts like ice cream wouldn't melt in his mouth and has other things to do?

I NEVER want to play poker with Danny.  He is one cool cucumber.


bob


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As of 3:45 pm EDT

Adrian W says

Woj on Clips-Celts now: "the talks are still at Jordan & one pick, Boston still wants two picks...Chris Paul has begun to exert some muscle"


More Woj: "I think (Boston) they know it has to be done...until the Clippers hire a coach, this thing is alive"





Woj on C's/Ainge: "I think they're also hopeful that they'll find a way to get this done, send Doc & KG to Clips & start rebuidling process"







MY NOTE: Chris Paul has begun to exert some muscle. Music to my ears.






bob


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Wouldn't that be funny if we ended up with a center we've needed because Chris Paul got into it?

Funnier still, depending on how we draft, we could potentially end up with two young centers after spending a season without even one.

Intriguing possibilities; Jordan being spelled by the likes of Withey or Dieng.  Jordan in the front-court with a Plumlee/Sully rotation or Jordan and Sully in the front-court with Muhammad or Snell backing Green.  Put various combinations from that group on the floor with Rondo and Bradley.  Pure wish list fantasy at this point, but fun to think about.

You go Chris Paul.

On another note; I'll also join Bob in staying away from the poker table with Danny.

Just get it done.

Hi,
Yes, it looks like the deal is going through after all.
After all said and done my main concern will be the new head coach and what system he's going to bring. In the last several years I've got used to what Doc, Tibs, Frank and KG ingrained into the team. Now it all most probably will change. Oh well, o tempora o mores, as they used to say.

AK

Jordan was over 50% a year ago. How much better was Perkins at the charity strip?

112288

George Karl?
Byron Scott?

Are there any other coaches available with two first names?

W -

Lawrence Frank?

We could also look for multi-part last named coaches...

Jeff Van Gundy
Stan Van Gundy
Vinny Del Negro

No Stan Van Gundy, I couldn't stand listening to him, but I wouldn't mind Jeff. Would he even consider coming out of retirement for another shot at coaching?  

Rosalie

NYCelt,

The Celtics hiring a Van Gundy as coach? We'll lose half the forum when their heads explode.

NY Celt - Lawrence Frank - good one. Does this mean half the available coaches have two first names?

I like George Karl the best of the available lot, but to tell the truth, not that much. I already miss Doc. And Tibs.

Rosalie and Outside,

I was only taking Worcester's question about coaches with two first names to the next level.  I didn't intend it to be anything but fun, however...

I've made no secret of the fact that I'm a huge fan of any Van Gundy due to local ties and volunteer work with the family.  Jeff (who attended Nazareth College along with my wife and whose close friend Jack is also a friend of mine) has said he is looking to return to coaching.  Jack says Jeff is serious about getting back if the conditions are right but has not elaborated.  Me; I say let their heads explode in The Garden.  They'll get over themselves if the team becomes competitive again.  Personally, I think Jeff is a top-shelf coach and would be the best choice among the Van Gundys.

Vinny Del Negro is among the rumored candidates, along with Lawrence Frank.  Frank yes, Del Negro, pass.

Regards