Wizards land Marcin Gortat in trade with Suns

By HOOPSWORLD

by Sam Amick, USA TODAY Sports

The Washington Wizards made a bold push toward the 2014 NBA playoffs, while the Phoenix Suns continued looking to the future.

The Wizards and Suns agreed to a trade sending center Marcin Gortat and guards Shannon Brown, Malcolm Lee and Kendall Marshall to Washington for center Emeka Okafor and a 2014 first-round draft pick, a person close to the situation told USA TODAY Sports. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the trade has not been made official.

The draft pick is protected if it lands in the top 12, but adding Gortat helps the Wizards’ already strong playoff aspirations. The 6-11 Polish big man has averaged 13.3 points and 9.3 rebounds a game over the past 2½ seasons for the Suns.

Brown, Lee and Marshall all could be valuable for a short Wizards bench, particularly after starting guards John Wall and Bradley Beal each missed significant time last season.

Okafor is out indefinitely with a neck injury, but the Suns have plenty of options in the frontcourt with No. 5 overall draft pick Alex Len showing during the preseason that he may be ready to contribute.

ESPN reported the trade first.

Read about this not too long ago. Certainly looks like a win-win for Washington. I've always liked Gortat since he was in Orlando, and he'll be a solid addition to their team.



KJ

112288 - It's funny. I beat you by two whole minutes with this news in the Random Thoughts around the league thread. Wish we had Gortat.

Ya...............Danny should have grabbed him 3 years ago to give KG a real center he could work with as he played the power forward position. Coulda ...........woulda .........shoulda

112288

Shit.

There's been a lot of talk, not on this board but among the chattering class, about the Celtics tanking this year.  As stated pretty clearly by Sam, there is a difference between playing your asses off and losing, because you have an unbalanced roster, and tanking.

Trading Gortat for Okafur and a protected draft pick is tanking.

Suns fans should show up for games wearing paper bags over their heads, like the way New Orleans Saints fans used to do back when they were the 'Aints.  There's not much the league can do about this, but it's not good for the game when management is so blatantly obviously intent on sucking.


bob


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Too bad we didn't get Gortat.

Bob,

Here is how I view the subject of "Tanking".

First, how do you define the word "Tanking".
My definition........Tanking is an adjective with broad meaning that can be used to describe a general overall result of an action by responsible parties in control of an act that results in a non-satisfactory outcome without intent on the part of responsible parties, or it can imply an intended act caused by responsible parties in control of an act to produce negative results.

My definition is.........Not playing basketball to the quality level that was achieved from the previous year or years that have resulted in an inordinate amount of losses as compared to prior history.

Second,
You must ask if tanking was a deliberate act of malice caused directly  by those parties responsible for outcomes to create a "Tank", or....................

an unintended consequence or result of a necessary act in order to fulfill future desired results that can be measured qualitatively  by those parties who judge or interpret outcomes as a direct measure of success or failure.

THAT BEING SAID

In the pure sense...we are going to tank from previous years results. The "Tanking"  was done by management without malice or extreme prejudice as THE TEAM NEEDED TO GET REBUILT AND GET YOUNGER. WE WERE BEGINNING TO RUN ON EMPTY: Here is why we will "TANK" THIS YEAR.

1) We have a rookie college coach learning the NBA game;
2) We lost our core players who were super stars - PP & KG;
3) We have a large number of rookies in key positions that will be asked to contribute NOW while still learning the NBA game;
4) We have a a fair amount of new players who are veterans but have not played together and who are not super stars;
5) The team as a whole has to learn a new system from a rookie NBA coach;
6) Most likely some trades during the season may result in new players and thus a learning curve by the new players about the system and about their new teammates; and
7) Your only super star RR is out till mid year with a serious injury that may or may not be fully healed and who at best may contribute his super star sKills for 1/2 a season while at the same time getting to know the moves of new teammates ........................

I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF WE ACHIEVE 30 WINS

112288

112288 wrote:Bob,

Here is how I view the subject of "Tanking".

First, how do you define the word "Tanking".
My definition........Not playing basketball to the quality level that was achieved from the previous year or years that have resulted in an inordinate amount of losses as compared to prior history.

Second,
You must ask if tanking was a deliberate act of malice caused directly  by those parties responsible for outcomes to create a "Tank", or....................

an unintended consequence or result of a necessary act in order to fulfill future desired results that can be measured qualitatively  by those parties who judge or interpret outcomes as a direct measure of success or failure.

THAT BEING SAID

In the pure sense...we are going to tank from previous years results. The "Tanking"  was done by management without malice or extreme prejudice as THE TEAM NEEDED TO GET REBUILT AND GET YOUNGER. WE WERE BEGINNING TO RUN ON EMPTY: Here is why we will "TANK" THIS YEAR.

1) We have a rookie college coach learning the NBA game;
2) We lost our core players who were super stars - PP & KG;
3) We have a large number of rookies in key positions that will be asked to contribute NOW while still learning the NBA game;
4) We have a a fair amount of new players who are veterans but have not played together and who are not super stars;
5) The team as a whole has to learn a new system from a rookie NBA coach;
6) Most likely some trades during the season may result in new players and thus a learning curve by the new players about the system and about their new teammates; and
7) Your only super star RR is out till mid year with a serious injury that may or may not be fully healed and who at best may contribute his super star sKills for 1/2 a season while at the same time getting to know the moves of new teammates ........................

I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF WE ACHIEVE 30 WINS

112288

112288,

That's a far more elaborate definition of Tanking I've ever used.  To me, it's simple.  If you play and/or manage with the intent of having as few wins as possible, you are tanking.

1.  If you deliberately play on 6 cylinders, when you have 8, you are tanking.
2.  If you trade away current assets for assets that make you worse so that you can move up in the draft, you are tanking.

In a nutshell, "tanking" means to try and deliberately lose.

Why aren't these Celtics "tanking"?

1.  If they are playing hard, they're not tanking, they're just losing.  If you're playing on 6 cyclinders, and that's all you got, and you're losing because every other team has 8 cyclinders, then you're just losing to stronger clubs and that's not tanking.

2.  Trading current assets like Pierce and Garnett for players that are pretty good in their own right (Crash and Hump, at least) and a bunch of first round draft picks, that's not tanking.  Why?  Because we're not deliberately trying to lose this year to get Wiggins, we're taking a bigger, broader view of rebuilding.  If Danny was really trying to tank, he'd have traded PP, KG and JET for the bottom half of the Nets' bench and not for some decent players that could help us win.  We have 9 1st round picks over the next 5 years.  Some or all of those draft picks will, no doubt, translate into quality players, either draftees or players that Danny trades for using those picks.  Since 4 of those 9 picks have nothing to do with our W-L record, since they come from Brooklyn and LAC, we could do really well this year and still be able to look at those picks as value.  If the Clips implode, the pick we got from them for Doc increases in value and that has nothing to do with our quality of play or the number of wins we rack up this year.  Our trading of PP and KG was about the acquisition of future assets and not about trying to get more balls in next year's lottery nor, in fact, in any lottery.  It is likely we will get some balls in next year's lottery and it is possible we'll get some balls in the 2016 and 2018 lottery (especially 2018) from Brooklyn's picks, but those are not locks.

Phoenix is obviously trying to go into a power dive this year.  They're trying to go into a power dive this year for one reason and one reason only, and that's to get more balls in the Andrew Wiggins Sweepstakes.  To do that, they have to make sure there is no chance for this team to overachieve.  To do that, they traded a good, veteran center for a neer-do-well and a draft pick with mediocre value because it is protected.  In other words, they made damn sure they didn't replace Gortat, this year, with someone who could replace him this year and the future assets they got to make up the difference were of tepid value at best.

And that's tanking.

As far as your definition #1, "Not playing basketball to the quality level that was achieved from the previous year or years that have resulted in an inordinate amount of losses as compared to prior history", that could describe what happened to us after the Perk-for-Green trade.  Would you say we "tanked" then too?  It seems to me that definition removes the concept of intent from the equation and, to me, "tanking" is all about intent.


bob


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112288 wrote:Ya...............Danny should have grabbed him 3 years ago to give KG a real center he could work with as he played the power forward position. Coulda ...........woulda .........shoulda

112288

right on and as many flaws as Perk has we still haven't come close to acquiring a real bruiser at the 5

bobheckler wrote:Shit.

There's been a lot of talk, not on this board but among the chattering class, about the Celtics tanking this year.  As stated pretty clearly by Sam, there is a difference between playing your asses off and losing, because you have an unbalanced roster, and tanking.

Trading Gortat for Okafur and a protected draft pick is tanking.

Suns fans should show up for games wearing paper bags over their heads, like the way New Orleans Saints fans used to do back when they were the 'Aints.  There's not much the league can do about this, but it's not good for the game when management is so blatantly obviously intent on sucking.


bob


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is there a new board member named Shit?

Cowans....That's good one.

Bob....Again its how you define Tank. You can play hard...still lose and you tanked as compared to the previous year(s).

112288

112288 the personnel on this roster is very unbalanced to say the least, lacking in key areas. Dannys not stupid, he put together a roster that can't win....lets get 2 keepers/stars in the next draft.

Ya,

That was Danny's objective.  The argument then is did he put this type of team together because he was forced to i.e.

because he could not make kind of trades with KG & PP work (salary etc.) for better and younger talent, so he had to make best with what the hand was dealt to him in order to get expiring contracts and get under the cap; or

he put the team together so as to insure a losing season and potential high lottery pick.

I chose the former as a reason for the type of team and personal we have as a team now, but as a byproduct in doing so, it will also produce a 50+ loss season.

112288

BobH,

I agree with you that Boston isn't tanking this year. Just because a team doesn't have a great year doesn't mean they tanked. They just didn't have enough to compete with every team they faced.

I'm quite over the talk of this team "tanking." It's preposterous and in reality unfair to a group of guys that look like they are willing to play hard even when the odds are stacked against them.

This team is NOT tanking.



KJ

KJ,

Many teams play hard and still don't do as well as in the previous year. For that to be the basis for defining "tanking" is ludicrous. The matter of intent is the important thing. And, unless a general manager, coach and players collude on that negative intent, there are too many ways in which the plan can go awry.

Whatever one's definition of "tanking," I believe it is an insulting term. Personally, I prefer to believe my team is innocent until proven guillty.

Sam

TANKS SAM.............LOL

112288

112288,

I bet I'm the only one on the board who has had a Army tank overrun a foxhole in which I was crouching.  Maybe that experience biases my feeling about the term.  All I know is that I never wore those underwear again.

Sam

Sam,

I could not top that one.......since its FULL OF LOADS of ................... laughs!

Tongue fully planted in cheek of course!

112288

Think virtually all players are going to go out there and try to win.........if the management puts them into position to give them a fair shot at doing so is quite another matter.
Just like I like to believe virtually all refs WANT to get the call right. some just can't.


beat

FUNNY THREAD!!! LMAO!!

cowens/oldschool wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Shit.

There's been a lot of talk, not on this board but among the chattering class, about the Celtics tanking this year.  As stated pretty clearly by Sam, there is a difference between playing your asses off and losing, because you have an unbalanced roster, and tanking.

Trading Gortat for Okafur and a protected draft pick is tanking.

Suns fans should show up for games wearing paper bags over their heads, like the way New Orleans Saints fans used to do back when they were the 'Aints.  There's not much the league can do about this, but it's not good for the game when management is so blatantly obviously intent on sucking.


bob


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is there a new board member named Shit?

cow{comma}

That's shit{period}, not shit{comma}.

Besides, you know what a gentleman I am. If I was going to refer to someone like that I'd give him as much respect and stature as I could, all in the interest of conviviality. I'd call him 'shit head'. 'Shit' is insufficiently honorific.


bob


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beat,

I have zero confidence in referees whatsoever. They've ruined the NBA with their star-coddling and tailoring the game to suit offensive players at the expensive of defensive players.



KJ

sam wrote:112288,

I bet I'm the only one on the board who has had a Army tank overrun a foxhole in which I was crouching.  Maybe that experience biases my feeling about the term.  All I know is that I never wore those underwear again.

Sam

sam,

You might want to rethink seeing that Tom Hanks/Steven Spielberg collaboration at the WWII Museum in Nawlins. The scene where the German tanks were coming over the ridge above you and roaring down on top of you, with the plates under the seats making the whole place shake, might either bring back bad memories for you or it might make you think it was child's play.

Probably the latter.

Still, the rest of the Museum is quite, quite good.


bob


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