Re: 2015 Playoff Thread

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:24 am

sam wrote:I didn't watch the game. But I'm wondering how much of Curry's poor showing owed to the Cleveland defense. I know Steve made reference to this. For example, I notice Shumpert played more than 30 minutes despite minimal offensive input. How much of the time was he guarding Curry? There's no player's offense that can't be defended under the right circumstances. And it would make sense for Cleveland to realize they're not going to have a shot in this series based mainly on their offense; so they'd naturally go all-out on defense. They were also pretty well rested for this game.

Sam

sam,

Dellavadova's defense on Curry was spectacular. Delly played no help defense at all, he never left Curry's side for a second.

Curry also had a poor shooting night. He also made a lot of dumb mistakes. Poor decisions on passes, for one. He had 6 TOs on only 5 assists.

I thought Kerr did a poor job of doing an in-game adjustment to Blatt's strategy of just taking Curry out of the game. His final ATO, then one with 4 seconds left in OT, was a good example. No help for Curry, who was having a horrible 5-23 night, 2-15 from 3. He probably should NOT have been the primary scorer, Thompson, who had 34 points on 14-28 shooting, probably should have been. Instead, Curry got the ball, dribbled towards the corner where Thompson already was. Thompson's man, knowing there was only 4 seconds on the clock and a pass at that point wasn't possible, came off Thompson and helped Delly double team Curry. Horrible ATO. Lousy, lousy spacing. Thompson either should have had the ball or should have been nowhere near Curry, it just made it easy for Cleveland to load up the zone with defenders. They didn't have to overcommitt and leave themselves open somewhere else, Curry went to them.

Cleveland needed this, obviously, but I wouldn't gather too much from it. LeBron played 50 minutes. The Dubs shot 23% from 3. They also had 18 TOs. It took a perfect storm of adrenaline-driven "near death awareness" by Cleveland, shocking uncharacteristically poor shooting and sloppy play by GSW to get this to OT for Cleveland.

On another note, I think Bogut sucked last night. Mozgov had 17 points on 5-8 and 7-12 from the line because of Bogut's unbelievably poor PnR defense. Just awful. Lazy perimeter defense, Bogut would cheat over and completely forget about Mozgov, who would just rocket down the lane fo the high pass and dunk. TOO easy.

Very stressful game for me. I had trouble sitting and watching it. It was made worse because I was at a BBQ with a bunch of GSW fans who were generating as much heat as me. I repeatedly retreated to the patio to cool/calm down. I miss the good old days, at Clooney's, where I'd be watching Celtic games in the pool table room by myself (nobody wanted to be near me) and one of those old metal cigarette machines sitting near the TV, so I could pound on it when I was excited or pissed off (the bartender would scream at me from the front room to "knock it off!". Of course I stopped, but only until the next emotionally sharp play). Sadly, that machine is gone now. I'll miss all those dents I put in the top of it.

bob

.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:07 pm

sam wrote:Cow,

Thanks, but not interested in watching unless the Celtics are involved. The Celtics are the state of the game in terms of what matters to me. If the state of the game, latest trends and strategy were exemplified by the way the two teams apparently played last night, I'm good with looking in other strategic directions. For example, I don't believe watching last night would have exactly won my affection for the trend toward emphasis on the three-point game. If a game's going to be close, I prefer it to be close because both teams rose to the occasion rather than struggling equally.

Credit the Cavs for winning, and hope G.S. prevails in the long run. That's about it as far as I'm concerned. I have a lot going on in my llfe, including enjoying evenings with my wife without having to look at a schedule to see if I'm "free." I definitely keep up with what's going on in the NBA, as my continuing posting will attest; and, if there's a key play in the finals, I'll watch it on video.

But I'm happy if others are enjoying these games, and I can empathize with what Outside and his family are going through. I'll never forget the feeling of the boulder in the stomach at crunch time.

Sam

all good points Sam, was rooting for GS, but wouldn't mind seeing the more physical team win as I don't care who wins. I hate Lebron and how hes gotten all the calls always and I hate the 3 ball too and would love to see them deflated....guess I'm a good hater. and if this years Celtic team is the state of the game were in BIG trouble for obvious reasons....

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:13 pm

bobheckler wrote:
sam wrote:I didn't watch the game. But I'm wondering how much of Curry's poor showing owed to the Cleveland defense. I know Steve made reference to this. For example, I notice Shumpert played more than 30 minutes despite minimal offensive input. How much of the time was he guarding Curry? There's no player's offense that can't be defended under the right circumstances. And it would make sense for Cleveland to realize they're not going to have a shot in this series based mainly on their offense; so they'd naturally go all-out on defense. They were also pretty well rested for this game.

Sam

sam,

Dellavadova's defense on Curry was spectacular. Delly played no help defense at all, he never left Curry's side for a second.

Curry also had a poor shooting night. He also made a lot of dumb mistakes. Poor decisions on passes, for one. He had 6 TOs on only 5 assists.

I thought Kerr did a poor job of doing an in-game adjustment to Blatt's strategy of just taking Curry out of the game. His final ATO, then one with 4 seconds left in OT, was a good example. No help for Curry, who was having a horrible 5-23 night, 2-15 from 3. He probably should NOT have been the primary scorer, Thompson, who had 34 points on 14-28 shooting, probably should have been. Instead, Curry got the ball, dribbled towards the corner where Thompson already was. Thompson's man, knowing there was only 4 seconds on the clock and a pass at that point wasn't possible, came off Thompson and helped Delly double team Curry. Horrible ATO. Lousy, lousy spacing. Thompson either should have had the ball or should have been nowhere near Curry, it just made it easy for Cleveland to load up the zone with defenders. They didn't have to overcommitt and leave themselves open somewhere else, Curry went to them.

Cleveland needed this, obviously, but I wouldn't gather too much from it. LeBron played 50 minutes. The Dubs shot 23% from 3. They also had 18 TOs. It took a perfect storm of adrenaline-driven "near death awareness" by Cleveland, shocking uncharacteristically poor shooting and sloppy play by GSW to get this to OT for Cleveland.

On another note, I think Bogut sucked last night. Mozgov had 17 points on 5-8 and 7-12 from the line because of Bogut's unbelievably poor PnR defense. Just awful. Lazy perimeter defense, Bogut would cheat over and completely forget about Mozgov, who would just rocket down the lane fo the high pass and dunk. TOO easy.

Very stressful game for me. I had trouble sitting and watching it. It was made worse because I was at a BBQ with a bunch of GSW fans who were generating as much heat as me. I repeatedly retreated to the patio to cool/calm down. I miss the good old days, at Clooney's, where I'd be watching Celtic games in the pool table room by myself (nobody wanted to be near me) and one of those old metal cigarette machines sitting near the TV, so I could pound on it when I was excited or pissed off (the bartender would scream at me from the front room to "knock it off!". Of course I stopped, but only until the next emotionally sharp play). Sadly, that machine is gone now. I'll miss all those dents I put in the top of it.

bob

.

don't these friends know your the Pitbull? I love watching games with you man, love the intensity, too bad your so far away....you should stop by your old stomping grounds more, especially during hoops season, but don't bother if our team sucks as bad as last 2 years since we still don't have a REAL bigman.

by **Sloopjohnb** Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:58 pm

"I hate Lebron and how hes gotten all the calls always"

He sure didn't get the calls last night. I'm enjoying this series mainly because Clvd has been a scrappy team against the Warriors who were heavily favored even before Irving went down.

And I do like watching Dellavodova play. It's always fun to watch an unheralded guy emerge because of grit and toughness.

I have no horse in this race but just want to see a good series.

by **Outside** Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:09 pm

bobheckler wrote:Dellavadova's defense on Curry was spectacular. Delly played no help defense at all, he never left Curry's side for a second.

Curry also had a poor shooting night. He also made a lot of dumb mistakes. Poor decisions on passes, for one. He had 6 TOs on only 5 assists.

I agree with the second part. Curry has off nights, can make inexplicably dumb plays (particularly passes), and seems almost lackadaisical sometimes, like he's too calm instead of having a focused edge. The final pass in overtime that Shumpert stole was an example of that.

As for the first part, yes, Dellavedova played good defense, but from my perspective, Curry allowed himself to be defended. Curry has seen tougher defense than that and made it look ineffectual through movement and screening, but the Warriors in general and Curry in particular just... stopped... moving. I don't understand why.

I also fault Curry for something that isn't really a fault at all, which is supreme confidence in his shooting ability. That confidence is essential for him (or any great shooter or scorer) to achieve such a high level of performance, but Thompson was shooting well, and once it became clear that it wasn't Curry's shooting night, Curry should've made it his mission to feed Thompson or occupy the defense better to open opportunities for Thompson. Yet Curry's confidence led him to keep jacking up threes at an epically awful miss rate.

We'll see how they respond on Tuesday. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to Curry whether Dellavedova will be a headline or a footnote.

by **dbrown4** Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:29 pm

Now it's time to find out how much heart GSW has. I know Steve Kerr has it. Can he translate it to his team is the question that will be answered after Thursday's Game 4. This Game 3 is a mini Game 7 gut check for GSW. Three possible outcomes. GSW up 3-1, CLE up 3-1 or all knotted 2-2 going back to Oakland. I'm not confident GSW can go up 3-1. I'm going to have to go with the heart to the champion. CLE will be up 3-1 early Friday morning.

Thanks, Outside. That makes my game predicting record on this site 1-100!

This is shaping up to be a great series, though, no matter who is left standing for CLE.

db

by **dbrown4** Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:40 pm

Unless GSW snaps back tomorrow night, the CLE drought story and its fulfillment is going to be too great to overcome. Again, winning order is important. GSW pretty much has to win tomorrow night. The pressure for them to win Game 4 after losing a Game 3 will be enormous and impossible to recover.

They need to win big tomorrow. No OT.

db

by **worcester** Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:34 pm

Nothing is impossible.

by **Sam** Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:18 pm

Outside,

You obviously saw the game and I didn't. But I have to disagree with one observation. it SOUNDS good to say that a good shooter who's having a bad night should lay off the shooting in favor of setting up other guys. But that's not the conventional wisdom in the NBA—especially when a premier shooter is involved. The conventional wisdom is for the superior shooter to keep firing away on the premise the the likelihood he will snap out of it is greater than the likelihood that his personal drought will continue. In other words, for better or worse, you go with what got you there. Putting the damper on your best shooter plays right into the opponent's hands.

Another reason not to change the game plan is because going away from Curry would not reduce the likelihood that the same tight guarding would happen next game. Better to continue trying to find an antidote.

Sam

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:38 pm

Were gonna find out what kind of player Steph Curry is, whenever Pierce or Bird had a bad game, you knew they would come back with the real goods the very next night....Lebron has been incredible, magnificent in carrying his team on his back, injuries forcing him to do even more to keep his team alive, I see him averaging a triple double for the series. Player of the Ages is a one man wrecking crew.

by **Sam** Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:55 pm

Cow, I didn't mean this year's Celtics team was the executional state of the game. I meant that the Celtics franchise constitutes my own personal state of interest in the game.

Sam

by **Outside** Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:31 am

Sam,

Yeah, I get that. But the thing is that Curry's not just a shooter. He is quite adept at being the spark that makes the offense go, even if he's not the guy who takes the shot. He even revels in the role on the occasions when they're rolling as a group or Thompson is shooting well, as he was in game 2.

It was really my secondary complaint. The first is that they all failed to move the ball and move themselves. If they'd done that as they normally do, it wouldn't matter that Curry was having an off night. I heard today that the Warriors average around 300 passes per game but had only 200 in game 2, and that despite the fact it was an overtime game. That is the key stat in my mind.

by **bobheckler** Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:44 am

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/09/league-says-referees-missed-four-calls-in-overtime-during-game-2-of-nba-finals/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

League says referees missed four calls in overtime during Game 2 of NBA Finals
Brett Pollakoff Jun 9, 2015, 11:10 AM EDT

The Cavaliers won Game 2 of the NBA Finals in overtime, and did so despite the fact that referees missed two calls in the extra session that cost Cleveland to lose two possessions.

Draymond Green was essentially caught cheating after the fact on two separate jump ball plays that were labeled as incorrect no-calls on the league’s Last Two Minute report — the first came on overtime’s opening tip against Tristan Thompson, while the second came with 45.4 seconds remaining on a jump ball against LeBron James.

LeBron ended up catching the ball after the toss from the official, which isn’t allowed so the Warriors gained possession. But you could see him flip out while trying to explain that Green had grabbed him, or had held him by the shoulder.

The league says officials missed two other calls, both of which came on a single possession where Andre Iguodala was defending James.

Iguodala hacked James across the arm with 1:37 to play, but not before James traveled by moving his pivot foot. The violations were ignored at the time, and both were ruled as incorrect no-calls after the league completed its review process.

bob

.

by **Sam** Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:22 pm

Outside,

Interesting stat about the number of passes. My question is what caused the failure to move the ball? The Cleveland defense? Too much impatience on the Warriors' part? Hard to believe a team that good just happening to go away from what got them there.

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:56 pm

The Cavs stopped alot of the movement by just stopping it, putting a body on someone. With Love and Irving out Cavs defense actually goes up a notch as their 2 replacements Thompson and Dellavadova both get into players and James and Shumpert are elite defenders.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:19 pm

Cavs off to good start, Tristian Thompson going off on the boards, defense causing havoc....

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:25 pm

Love this big Cavs lineup, Smith, Shumpert, James, Thompson and Mozgov.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:21 pm

Kudos to Sam, Steph Curry has 3 points at halftime, he said any great scorer can be taken off his game. I thought first 2 games were flukes and he'd be blazing, ready to show why he's the MVP. Cavs have completely shut him down, they are playing Eastern Conference bully ball, the style started by Bird and crew, then perfected by Pistons, then by us again with KG and Perk. Never seen an MVP completely taken out like this, GS has 37 points and its halftime, Tristian Thompson boarding like Rodman....can't believe I'm rooting for Cavs. They own the paint, dats what ITS all about!!!

by **bobc33** Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:32 pm

Hard to believe what the Cavs are doing......

Steph Curry still appears to not thrive on the biggest stage....

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:53 pm

sam wrote:I didn't watch the game. But I'm wondering how much of Curry's poor showing owed to the Cleveland defense. I know Steve made reference to this. For example, I notice Shumpert played more than 30 minutes despite minimal offensive input. How much of the time was he guarding Curry? There's no player's offense that can't be defended under the right circumstances. And it would make sense for Cleveland to realize they're not going to have a shot in this series based mainly on their offense; so they'd naturally go all-out on defense. They were also pretty well rested for this game.

Sam

it is such a pleasure to see all-out defense take control of a series

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:56 pm

bobc33 wrote:Hard to believe what the Cavs are doing......

Steph Curry still appears to not thrive on the biggest stage....

whats so great is how Dellavadova dogs him especially when he doesn't have the ball, constantly in his face without the ball....AB could learn from this.

by **bobc33** Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:59 pm

After three the Warriors are shooting 35% from the field and 25% on 3s.

Still have a period to go but if the Cavs go up 2-1 Coach Kerr has some work to do......

by **bobc33** Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:14 pm

David Lee getting some minutes and playing well.... Warriors coming back.

by **bobc33** Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:29 pm

Dellavedova will be the all time folk hero in Cleveland if he keeps this up!

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:41 pm

Curry came back and found his stroke.

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