Re: 2016 Playoff Thread

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:55 am

The old Clooney's is now the Savanna Jazz Bar. QUITE the different venue. Still, it had a decent crowd last night.

The elbow to Love's head was accidental and glancing. Harrison Barnes did not come directly over Love's back. It was not a cheap shot, it was aggressive play and aggressive play results in more physical play. Personally, I think the play call was correct, Play On! The reason why Love was taken out was because the NBA has a Concussion Protocol that is followed after a blow the head. It doesn't mean he has a concussion, or even if he does that it is a serious one. It means the NBA takes blows to the head seriously, as they should. According to reports today, Love was fine at halftime but experienced dizziness in the 3rd quarter. Maybe he suffered from vertigo from looking at the scoreboard.

Curry is the most amazing shooter I have ever seen. I know I've said this before but every time I see him shoot it amazes me. There was one shot where he came left around a screen beyond 3 and got the ball on a dribble hand-off and shot off his right leg. He was not squared up, his feet were not right and it didn't matter. Ray Allen was a shooting machine, Curry is not. Allen was a marching band, always precise and deliberate, while Curry is jazz. All true shooters have the ability to adjust their shots, like when they are shooting on the run, but that gets harder when you are doing it from 25'.

I will say this again: I do not want Harrison Barnes in green. He's not a bad player, not at all, but he turned down a $17M/year, 4 year deal from GSW earlier this year. Do you think he is worth $17M, even with the cap going up? I don't.

Draymond Green is a monster. He had a weak game 1 but he was a killer last night.

Yes, that's called "traveling", Le Queen. Just because you have never been called for it doesn't mean the call doesn't exist and other people are.

The momentum changer, when the Dubs couldn't throw the rock in the ocean from the beach, was Bogut with his blocks. I'm usually underwhelmed by him but last night he made a huge impact.

The only Cavalier who looked like he knew what he was doing out there was Richard Jefferson, and that's because he's 86 years old.

The series isn't over. The Cavs have 2 games of home cooking coming up and it could be tied by Saturday morning. A few of the people at Savanna last night actually wanted the Dubs to lose one of the games in Cleveland so we could finish them off in Oakland. No. You do not do that. You finish it as quickly as you can. If they win both in Cleveland, and then pull an upset in Oakland in game 5, then it is a very different series.

bob

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by **tjmakz** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:14 am

worcester wrote:Kevin shoulda signed with the Celts. Brad would have been his ticket to many All Star games. Now he's just a footnote in the history of a losing team. Lue and LeBron are misusing him terribly, but that is on Kevin. He made his bed. Now he has to sleep in it.

If you consider Cleveland a losing team, wouldn't you say the same thing if Love signed with the Celtics?
Getting to the NBA Finals is usually not easy. Yes, Cleveland will probably lose, but they are playing against a team that has had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history.
Love or Irving probably need to be traded.
Cleveland hasn't yet figured out how to play to everyone's strength's.
Is the fall off in Love game LeBron's, Lue's and Blatt's fault or his own?

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:42 am

tjmakz wrote:
worcester wrote:Kevin shoulda signed with the Celts. Brad would have been his ticket to many All Star games. Now he's just a footnote in the history of a losing team. Lue and LeBron are misusing him terribly, but that is on Kevin. He made his bed. Now he has to sleep in it.

If you consider Cleveland a losing team, wouldn't you say the same thing if Love signed with the Celtics?
Getting to the NBA Finals is usually not easy. Yes, Cleveland will probably lose, but they are playing against a team that has had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history.
Love or Irving probably need to be traded.
Cleveland hasn't yet figured out how to play to everyone's strength's.
Is the fall off in Love game LeBron's, Lue's and Blatt's fault or his own?

Cleveland had a 10 game playoff winning streak and played some of their best ball during these playoffs, shows how weak the league or EC is and styles make fights, Cavs pace is too slow vs GS and they're defense and bigs are nothing like the Thunder, who won the physical battle with GS.

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:44 am

tjmakz wrote:
worcester wrote:Kevin shoulda signed with the Celts. Brad would have been his ticket to many All Star games. Now he's just a footnote in the history of a losing team. Lue and LeBron are misusing him terribly, but that is on Kevin. He made his bed. Now he has to sleep in it.

If you consider Cleveland a losing team, wouldn't you say the same thing if Love signed with the Celtics?
Getting to the NBA Finals is usually not easy. Yes, Cleveland will probably lose, but they are playing against a team that has had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history.
Love or Irving probably need to be traded.
Cleveland hasn't yet figured out how to play to everyone's strength's.
Is the fall off in Love game LeBron's, Lue's and Blatt's fault or his own?

TJ,

I agree. It's like Foreman losing to Ali. It didn't mean Foreman was a bad fighter. Cleveland is a helluva team. Their problem is the Golden State Warriors rule Hell.

As far as the fall off in Love's game, I blame it on a roster that has been constructed to support LeBron and Irving. It most certainly is NOT Blatt's fault. I've written this elsewhere, those two take turns having the ball in their hands and Love is expected to to wait out at the 3pt arc for a possible kick out pass. That's true with the rest of the team too. Smith, Shumpert, DellavaDIVER all wait out at the arc in the half court sets hoping that LBJ or Irving will kick it out to them. Of the starting and rotation players only Thompson, due to his severely limited offensive skills, hangs around the paint. Occasionally they will post Love up. It's not normal for them, but they are doing it a little more vs GSW because GSW doesn't have a direct matchup for Love in the low post. LBJ and Irving will not, however, reciprocate with Love and wait out by the arc for a kick out pass from Love's low post efforts. I believe he is being misused in Cleveland and the reason is that his other two superstars are almost strictly "on the ball' offensive players. Furthermore, Cleveland does not run a motion offense. They run a "give it to LeBron or Irving, let them drive and create" offense. Put Love in a system where players move for him and he is expected to move and he might be much more effective. Cleveland's problem, such as a great (but not the greatest) team like might have, is that unless you move LeBron (uh, that's not going to happen) or you move Irving (also extremely unlikely) you are going to have the same issues. The team will be constructed around them and their proclivities.

bob

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by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:46 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
tjmakz wrote:
worcester wrote:Kevin shoulda signed with the Celts. Brad would have been his ticket to many All Star games. Now he's just a footnote in the history of a losing team. Lue and LeBron are misusing him terribly, but that is on Kevin. He made his bed. Now he has to sleep in it.

If you consider Cleveland a losing team, wouldn't you say the same thing if Love signed with the Celtics?
Getting to the NBA Finals is usually not easy. Yes, Cleveland will probably lose, but they are playing against a team that has had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history.
Love or Irving probably need to be traded.
Cleveland hasn't yet figured out how to play to everyone's strength's.
Is the fall off in Love game LeBron's, Lue's and Blatt's fault or his own?

Cleveland had a 10 game playoff winning streak and played some of their best ball during these playoffs, shows how weak the league or EC is and styles make fights, Cavs pace is too slow vs GS and they're defense and bigs are nothing like the Thunder, who won the physical battle with GS.

Cow,

The Thunder won the physical battle with GSW and they still lost the series. That's because this is a small ball league, powered by wings, now.

bob

.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:50 am

bobheckler wrote:The old Clooney's is now the Savanna Jazz Bar. QUITE the different venue. Still, it had a decent crowd last night.

The elbow to Love's head was accidental and glancing. Harrison Barnes did not come directly over Love's back. It was not a cheap shot, it was aggressive play and aggressive play results in more physical play. Personally, I think the play call was correct, Play On! The reason why Love was taken out was because the NBA has a Concussion Protocol that is followed after a blow the head. It doesn't mean he has a concussion, or even if he does that it is a serious one. It means the NBA takes blows to the head seriously, as they should. According to reports today, Love was fine at halftime but experienced dizziness in the 3rd quarter. Maybe he suffered from vertigo from looking at the scoreboard.

Curry is the most amazing shooter I have ever seen. I know I've said this before but every time I see him shoot it amazes me. There was one shot where he came left around a screen beyond 3 and got the ball on a dribble hand-off and shot off his right leg. He was not squared up, his feet were not right and it didn't matter. Ray Allen was a shooting machine, Curry is not. Allen was a marching band, always precise and deliberate, while Curry is jazz. All true shooters have the ability to adjust their shots, like when they are shooting on the run, but that gets harder when you are doing it from 25'.

I will say this again: I do not want Harrison Barnes in green. He's not a bad player, not at all, but he turned down a $17M/year, 4 year deal from GSW earlier this year. Do you think he is worth $17M, even with the cap going up? I don't.

Draymond Green is a monster. He had a weak game 1 but he was a killer last night.

Yes, that's called "traveling", Le Queen. Just because you have never been called for it doesn't mean the call doesn't exist and other people are.

The momentum changer, when the Dubs couldn't throw the rock in the ocean from the beach, was Bogut with his blocks. I'm usually underwhelmed by him but last night he made a huge impact.

The only Cavalier who looked like he knew what he was doing out there was Richard Jefferson, and that's because he's 86 years old.

The series isn't over. The Cavs have 2 games of home cooking coming up and it could be tied by Saturday morning. A few of the people at Savanna last night actually wanted the Dubs to lose one of the games in Cleveland so we could finish them off in Oakland. No. You do not do that. You finish it as quickly as you can. If they win both in Cleveland, and then pull an upset in Oakland in game 5, then it is a very different series.

bob

.

Cavs have to win 4 out of 5, Love is shaky at best next game....Kyrie has disappeared suddenly and Lebron after having an easy run getting to Finals, has shown none of the fire or effectiveness of the first 2 games of last years Finals. This whole year his jumper has been MIA, without it, well look at the results of first 2 games. Sorry don't see any glimmers, they just scored 77 points last night, they stunk up the joint.

by **worcester** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:53 am

Cleveland will not win a ring for Love. The Celts can. Difference between being on a winner vs. a loser. But Love is not coming to Boston. Some one else will wear that ring, and Love will have regrets. My prediction.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:56 am

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
tjmakz wrote:
worcester wrote:Kevin shoulda signed with the Celts. Brad would have been his ticket to many All Star games. Now he's just a footnote in the history of a losing team. Lue and LeBron are misusing him terribly, but that is on Kevin. He made his bed. Now he has to sleep in it.

If you consider Cleveland a losing team, wouldn't you say the same thing if Love signed with the Celtics?
Getting to the NBA Finals is usually not easy. Yes, Cleveland will probably lose, but they are playing against a team that has had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history.
Love or Irving probably need to be traded.
Cleveland hasn't yet figured out how to play to everyone's strength's.
Is the fall off in Love game LeBron's, Lue's and Blatt's fault or his own?

Cleveland had a 10 game playoff winning streak and played some of their best ball during these playoffs, shows how weak the league or EC is and styles make fights, Cavs pace is too slow vs GS and they're defense and bigs are nothing like the Thunder, who won the physical battle with GS.

Cow,

The Thunder won the physical battle with GSW and they still lost the series. That's because this is a small ball league, powered by wings, now.

bob

.

the physical battle enabled them to be up 3-1, then Durant and Westbrook choked in final minutes in all the next games and Waiters sucked and coach had a mindfart didn't play Kantor, who was killing GS, enough minutes. Thunder had the blueprint and style and personnel to win that series, GS had to make incredible plays to pull it out.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:59 am

worcester wrote:Cleveland will not win a ring for Love. The Celts can. Difference between being on a winner vs. a loser. But Love is not coming to Boston. Some one else will wear that ring, and Love will have regrets. My prediction.

with Love as your best or second best player, I don't think hes good enough in his role to carry a team to a championship, hes not KG.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:00 am

How much better would Cavs be with a prime time KG in Loves role?

by **tjmakz** Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:09 am

worcester wrote:Cleveland will not win a ring for Love. The Celts can. Difference between being on a winner vs. a loser. But Love is not coming to Boston. Some one else will wear that ring, and Love will have regrets. My prediction.

GS was a losing franchise for about 40 years, until they won last year.
That's what can happen when you have great players on your team. You win.
Boston is not there yet. Love would be winning less if he was on the Celtics.

by **worcester** Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:18 am

Love would have been part of the rebuild, not the franchise player. He could have been a factor. Not now. No big deal. We have cap space to use wisely going forward. In any case, Cleveland has never been a winner, by that I mean championship winner. Boston has and will be again. The Lakers were winners too, that is until Jerry Buss took the reins. He'll be bumped out and his sister will get them back near the top.

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:35 am

worcester wrote:Love would have been part of the rebuild, not the franchise player. He could have been a factor. Not now. No big deal. We have cap space to use wisely going forward. In any case, Cleveland has never been a winner, by that I mean championship winner. Boston has and will be again. The Lakers were winners too, that is until Jerry Buss took the reins. He'll be bumped out and his sister will get them back near the top.

worcester,

DOCTOR JERRY Buss was a winner. It's his idiot son, Jim, that's the loser.

bob

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by **worcester** Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:09 pm

My most sincere apologies to Dr. Jerry Buss, a great man. Sorry for the insult.

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:08 pm

http://deadspin.com/six-ways-the-cavs-can-get-back-into-this-series-1780800127?rev=1465232890566&utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Six Ways The Cavs Can Get Back Into This Series

Tom Ley

The Cleveland Cavaliers have been dominated by the Golden State Warriors through the first two games of the NBA Finals. Down 2-0, the Cavs are running short on chances to get back into the series, but I think they still have a shot if they make the following adjustments.

1. Go Sma—

Okay, right. Sorry, LeBron, that probably won’t work.

2. Bring Kyrie Irving Off The Be—

Nope. Nope. You’re right, another bad idea. Sorry. Really, so sorry. Let’s move on.

3. Play Timofey Mozg—

Haha. No, no, that was totally a joke. I swear!

4. Try To Push The Pac—

Okay, yes, I know you’ve been trying to do that, but what if you tried harder???

5. Feed J.R. And Hope He Gets Hot Earl—

Right! Ignore that one! Just ignore it.

6. Hack-A-Bogut?

https://vine.co/v/iYhiTpT19iE

I’ll just show myself out.

Photos via Getty and AP

bob
MY NOTE: Ice cold, just the way I like it served. Heheheh.

.

by **tjmakz** Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:20 pm

Jerry West rooting against but willing to defend LeBron James

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2016/story/_/id/15956952/jerry-west-defends-nba-finals-record-lebron-james

"That's the most ridiculous thing. If I were him, I'd probably want to strangle [detractors]," West said. "He's carried teams on his shoulders. He's been to the Finals six straight times. How many times has he been the favorite? None. Zero. Grossly unfair to him.

"I don't want to sound like Donald Trump, but it's hard for me to believe someone doesn't recognize his greatness. This guy does everything, and he's competitive as hell. Frankly, I wish people would leave him alone."

by **worcester** Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:27 pm

Jerry West is a class act who really knows talent. He's right about LeBron, a player who deserves respect for his game. But what happened to his outside shot this year?

by **steve3344** Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:54 pm

tjmakz wrote:Jerry West rooting against but willing to defend LeBron James

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2016/story/_/id/15956952/jerry-west-defends-nba-finals-record-lebron-james

"That's the most ridiculous thing. If I were him, I'd probably want to strangle [detractors]," West said. "He's carried teams on his shoulders. He's been to the Finals six straight times. How many times has he been the favorite? None. Zero. Grossly unfair to him.

"I don't want to sound like Donald Trump, but it's hard for me to believe someone doesn't recognize his greatness. This guy does everything, and he's competitive as hell. Frankly, I wish people would leave him alone."

West is wrong. Miami was the favorite over Dallas in 2011 and had home court advantage. And they were the favorite in 2013 when they finished with 66 wins and beat the Spurs for the title.

by **dbrown4** Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:44 pm

Aren't West and James' Finals records pretty close? Birds of a feather...

db

by **dbrown4** Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:54 pm

I believe it is going to be very difficult to put Golden State back in the box. Last night was like witnessing the awesome power of a fully operational Death Star. The analysts summed it up pretty well. EVERYWHERE GS has an advantage. Every match-up, every spot on the floor, EVERYWHERE.

GS is going into CLE with the very firm idea of wrapping it up in blowout fashion. And more than likely they will succeed. It is fun to watch! From the pure beauty of GS's play combined with the complete look of horror of running into a buzz saw with absolutely no idea how to dismantle it or way to avoid it. It couldn't happen to two more deserving teams!

db

by **steve3344** Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:56 pm

dbrown4 wrote:I believe it is going to be very difficult to put Golden State back in the box. Last night was like witnessing the awesome power of a fully operational Death Star. The analysts summed it up pretty well. EVERYWHERE GS has an advantage. Every match-up, every spot on the floor, EVERYWHERE.

GS is going into CLE with the very firm idea of wrapping it up in blowout fashion. And more than likely they will succeed. It is fun to watch! From the pure beauty of GS's play combined with the complete look of horror of running into a buzz saw with absolutely no idea how to dismantle it or way to avoid it. It couldn't happen to two more deserving teams!

db

GS doesn't have an advantage "EVERYWHERE." Unless Lebron breaks his leg.

by **dbrown4** Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:02 pm

To Game 2, they have reduced LeBron to something considerably less than what we've seen in the first three rounds. That was the quietest near triple double I can remember in quite some time.

db

by **steve3344** Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:10 pm

dbrown4 wrote:To Game 2, they have reduced LeBron to something considerably less than what we've seen in the first three rounds. That was the quietest near triple double I can remember in quite some time.

db

One game where Lebron has a "quiet" near triple-double and his team pulls a no-show doesn't mean that now GS has the advantage at SF. If you're GS I bet you'd be willing to trade Draymond Green for Lebron even up for the remainder of this series. And for the next few years as well. Draymond Green is very good but he ain't Lebron.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:28 pm

Okay - I will give Game 3 to Cleveland, they HAVE to win this one or it is all over but the shouting. Golden State may take one in Cleveland and win it all at home. This is their year, period. I cannot believe how bad Cleveland looked last night, very disfunctional. Love? eh????? He comes and he goes, do I want him here, NO. This kid just does not impress me as someone I would want to tie up a max contract with.

This is a tough one for Lue, he looks totally out coached. Live and Learn Tyrone~

Someone said LOve or Irvng has to go, my impression is that Love and LeBron just do not trust each other and hate to share the limelight with one another.

Golden State looks unbeatable right now. Let's see if it keeps up, I had thought that this would go the full tilt, seven games. Now I am beginning to think it will be done in six!

Rosalie

by **bobheckler** Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:36 pm

dbrown4 wrote:Aren't West and James' Finals records pretty close? Birds of a feather...

db

dbrown,

NO!!

Jerry West is a 1x NBA Champion as a player and a 7x NBA Champion as an executive, LeBron is a 2x NBA Champion as a player.

West didn't win more Championships as a player because of a guy named Bill Russell and a couple of his friends. As soon as they retired, he won his ring. Then again, a lot of other players got a shot at a ring after Russ etal retired too.

bob

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