Re: 2016 Playoff Thread

[steve3344]

Two trends that are emerging in this playoffs that I hadn't noticed are Thunder have become one of the most physical teams in the league. Spurs could not handle the physicality of Adams, Ibaka and Kantor and Andre Roberson is a great fast physical wing defender with legit shutdown ability. When Spurs went small with Diaw, Thunder stayed big and Adams has the ability to punish in the paint and hustle out to perimeter when need be as does Ibaka. Thunder is a very strong defensive and rebounding team, I sure didn't see them beating this 67-15 Spurs team in 6 the way they did.

Cavs have morphed into a deadly 3 point shooting team, they were 2nd in the league in made 3's and have set playoff records for most 3's in a playoff game twice already in these playoffs. Channing Frye was a great pick up for them, seems JR Smith has his head screwed on straight for once and Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving are healthy and on top of their game at the most important time.....they also have this decent historic player Lebron.

Cow,

Who is Lebron? Last name please.

[dbrown4]

That's why I don' get why everyone is so hyped up about small ball and the league moving toward this trend. You still have bigs. They can do a lot of scoring inside to counter. Small ball is just another wrinkle in the game. Doesn't guarantee jack, though.

db

[dbrown4]

The old school, tried and true basketball scheme is inside out. Pound the ball inside first so the defense is leaning in, then you start throwing up the 3-ball.

Small ball is just the opposite. Start jacking 3's until the cows come home. Use less of the clock to make up for the percentage differences and then your lanes open up.

Football does the same thing with running leading to passing. It's taken two guys that can shoot lights out from 3-land on the same team to change the scheme.

In '08 we only really had RA from downtown that could shoot lights out on a regular basis. PP could hit the three consistently but was not in the same ball park as RA. RR couldn't throw it in the ocean from 3.

db

[swish]

That's why I don' get why everyone is so hyped up about small ball and the league moving toward this trend.  You still have bigs.  They can do a lot of scoring inside to counter.  Small ball is just another wrinkle in the game.  Doesn't guarantee jack, though.    

db

dbrown,

I'm not so sure that it should be called "small ball".  I hope that the below numbers that I have put together will clarify how the game has evolved over the past 30 or so years.

#1 - 1985-86 - A year that most Celtic fans can relate to.
     That year the League average weight for Front court players was 219.4 lbs per player. - By the way! Parish was the BIG on that club at 230 lbs.
     For 2015-16 the league front court average has climbed to 239.0 lbs. So its actually "bigger ball" now.
#2 - 1985-86 - The front court that year took 60.2% of the shots.
       2015-16 - The front court shot count this year dropped down to 46.7%. So its more than likely that small ball has more to do with the fact that the back courts are taking a higher percent of the shots. Which goes hand in hand with #3 below.
#3 - In 1985-86 only 3.7% of the shots taken in a game were from 3 point range.
       In 2015-16, 28.5% of the field goal attempts were from 3 point range. The players are bigger than ever, by a large margin, so its not really small ball. Just a matter of who is taking the shots and where the shots are coming from.


   swish

[swish]

The old school, tried and true basketball scheme is inside out.  Pound the ball inside first so the defense is leaning in, then you start throwing up the 3-ball.  

Small ball is just the opposite.  Start jacking 3's until the cows come home.  Use less of the clock to make up for the percentage differences and then your lanes open up.

Football does the same thing with running leading to passing.  It's taken two guys that can shoot lights out from 3-land on the same team to change the scheme.

In '08 we only really had RA from downtown that could shoot lights out on a regular basis. PP could hit the three consistently but was not in the same ball park as RA.  RR couldn't throw it in the ocean from 3.

db        

That 07-08 club was pretty darn good from downtown. 24.8 3 point attempts per game. Ranked 5th in 3 point field goal percentage at .381. Had 4 outstanding 3 point shooters - Allen - .398, House - .393, Pierce - .392 and Posey - .380. The 3 point game played a huge role in their march to the championship.

swish

[dbrown4]

My memory is failing me, swish! Good points. GSW has so many weapons that your best players can have an off night or not even play like Curry did and they still win. You can't sustain that long term but in the short run, they are still hard to beat when the dreaded injuries pop up. We didn't have that identical replacement piece with depth when Perk went down in Game 6. A fine line between winning and losing.

It's going to come down to the bench players for OKC, GSW and CLE as to who walks away with it all. You don't make the conference finals by accident. Well, Toronto and Miami aside. Today, those two are playing for the privilege of getting swept and humiliated by CLE. Have fun with that. Having guys that can come off the bench and either consistently sustain or advance the game while your starters are resting is the ticket to a championship all other things equal.

GSW is human as we have found here in the short run. They have two more extremely tough rounds to go to repeat. OKC looks like they may have shaken the 4th quarter demons. But GSW is another story altogether. GSW isn't going to get tired and fold up like a cheap suit.

As Rudy T said, Never underestimate the heart of a champion. What a great statement. We're going to find out whose got it and who doesn't within the next month as only one tem gets to raise the trophy.

BTW, the new 30 for 30 on Cleveland is spectacular as are all the 30 for 30's. It really makes you understand the monumental struggle of a city with professional sports franchises that consistently come up just short of a championship for the last 50 years and have been dubbed chokers, losers, monkey on their backs, cursed, etc.

It almost made me want to pull for CLE to win it all....Almost! Do watch it, though!

db

[gyso]

One of my son-in-laws keeps asking me if I had watched that 30 for 30 about Believeland (I think that is what it is called). Of course, he is from Ohio and he is a fan of all the local teams.

I feel sorry for him, but I cannot pull for the Cavs.

[RosalieTCeltics]

It is terrible to say, but I will watch Western Division title games, but there is no way I can stomach a Miami/Cleveland series. I just cannot stand watching Wade pull is dirty little tricks to get fouls on opposing players. When will these ref's finally stop calling those cheap fouls that he fakes? And LeBron, as great as he is, is such an ego driven player that it is difficult so....GO GOLDEN STATE/OKC!!!!!

[dbrown4]

You are correct gyso, Believeland. I like you, cannot pull the trigger, though. But as the Boston Red Sox found out, "curses" come to an end. I'm sure the Cubs are enjoying the spotlight not being on them at least until CLE ends theirs. But this one is a little bit different as this "curse" is affecting all their pro sports and the city for that matter. The fans are forever faithful. You have to give them credit.

db

[cowens/oldschool]

YES!!!! Thunder closing out GS, they just went cold in 4th, their clever offense and shooting went ice cold, Thunder survived Durant going 0-8 in crucial stretch in 4th by relying on defense and rebounding to hold the lead. Thunder stayed true to their identity staying big and out physicalling the Warriors....gotta love it!!!

BIG MAN BALL can still win !!! Adams another huge game doing all the dirty work and hitting key FT's, Ibaka with some key blocks.

[dbrown4]

Hats off to OKC. Well done. We're going to find out about the heart of a champion, though.

I think my two favorite sayings of all time on this are from Rudy T and Mike Tyson.

"Never underestimate the heart of a champion."

"Everybody has a plan 'til you get punched in the mouth."

On to Game 2. Don't start counting chickens just yet.

db

[cowens/oldschool]

I'm not counting chickens yet, but I like that the Thunder won and Durant and Westbrook didn't have near their A games. I'm starting to see a flaw in the Warriors, when they get it going they can still win spectacularly don't get me wrong, but they have no big with a post up game. I would defend them the way we used to crush the Magic, play up on the shooters and make them drive, to do that you need elite defensive bigs to challenge the drivers, Thunder has that, we had it in KG and Perk.

....and I don't want to hear about any bad calls, what about Durant driving and getting hit in the face by Green and no call a few possessions earlier?

[RosalieTCeltics]

I am not rooting for one team or the other in this series, I just want the team who will give LeBron the biggest test to win. OKC seems to be on a roll here. They play rough, tough, basketball. Some of the GSW do not care to be man handled (Curry, Thompson), but Green will match with anyone No one scares him.
He has proven his worth in these playoffs more so than anyone else. I am sure we have not seen the best of GSW, so this will be a fun series to watch.

Rosalie

[dbrown4]

GSW looked very ordinary last night. I could hear Charles Barkley warming up with his "You die by the 3" speech again but instead he went to rebounds and turnovers. GSW just doesn't die by the 3. Very rarely. Last night was one of those times.

The door for transferring Durant to Boston is quickly slamming shut, however. That sucks.

Cowens, I've given up on the refs and the new last 2 minute evaluations after the game is over bs. Refs thinking and making or not making calls for themselves doesn't matter anymore. It's just silly now.

Someone is going to have to check Westbrook. Curry sucked at it even though he was on the edge of a 3D last night.

db

[cowens/oldschool]

There was a basketball game tonight and never seen Cavs play like this ever. Tyronn Lue should be given credit for this execution, they are moving the ball and getting so many easy looks, real unselfish team ball leading to a 9-0 playoff run so far....whoever survives this WCF is gonna have to deal with a well rested team clicking on all cylinders. I sure didn't see this wave of team ball jelling like this and playing so scary together at this level. EC must suck cause they are just toying with these teams.

[bobheckler]

A 27 point statement win by GSW tonight.

Need one in OKC now.


bob


.

[dbrown4]

Yeah, BobH. At this level, the real Final 4, unless you are playing in the current East, winning the first two games at home just isn't going to happen. And if you think GSW isn't going to take one of the next two, you haven't been watching the NBA for very long.

At this time, you will more than likely have to win twice on the road to move on. I'm curious this am to find out how the percentages are for those going on to win the series coming into Game 3 at 1-1 vs. Game 5 at 2-2 (in a 7 Game Series) and if there is any statistical significance. I'm going to guess Game 3 winner has higher percentage.

I shouldn't be so hard on TOR. They have always managed to bounce back in their Game 2's. We'll see tonight.

db

[steve3344]

Yeah, BobH.  At this level, the real Final 4, unless you are playing in the current East, winning the first two games at home just isn't going to happen.  And if you think GSW isn't going to take one of the next two, you haven't been watching the NBA for very long.  

At this time, you will more than likely have to win twice on the road to move on.  I'm curious this am to find out how the percentages are for those going on to win the series coming into Game 3 at 1-1 vs. Game 5 at 2-2 (in a 7 Game Series) and if there is any statistical significance.  I'm going to guess Game 3 winner has higher percentage.    

I shouldn't be so hard on TOR.  They have always managed to bounce back in their Game 2's.  We'll see tonight.  

db

Not bouncing back without Valanciunas. No chance.

[cowens/oldschool]

I don't get Durant, he was in such a zone first half, 23 points in first half then when Curry leads GS going for 15 straight points in a row in third, Durant only takes one shot in the 3rd? he should have went off for 40 or at least tried.....his 3 point game is way overated.

[steve3344]

Funny pic of Lebron:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/drake-trolls-lebron-james-dramatic-fall-loss-raptors-article-1.2645746

Let's hope he looks like this at the end of the series.

Won't happen without a healthy Valanciunas playing SOON.

[dbrown4]

I know this is just fantasy, but let's just supposed TOR knocks the cover off the ball and wins a close Game 4. I just want to see Steven A. have to back up a little bit and have some serious doubt about CLE winning this series. I know the series was over before it started, but TOR can compete with CLE. They lost only one more game than CLE did in the regular season playing the same teams and schedule. But the harder CLE has to work lets the doubt begin to creep in.

Game 4 is Game 7 for TOR. They have to play like it. Actually, this game and the game tonight are very big games. Psychologically for CLE. If they lose and it's 2-2, CLE begins the crash we've all been waiting and hoping for. The winner of the game in OKC tonight makes it real difficult for the other to win the series. We'll see. As usual, basketball at its very best!!

db

[dbrown4]

bobh,

However, like the difference between permutations and combinations, order is important. OKC wins Game 3, they have the edge to win the series. If GSW win Game 3, they have the edge to win the series.

db

[bobc33]

Draymond Green just intentionally kicked Adams in the jewels? Crowd chants "kick him out, kick him out,.....". But he only gets a flagrant 1.

I'd amend the rules to make it a flagrant 3.

[cowens/oldschool]

I can't stand Draymond Green, he talks way too much and is a dirty player.

[dbrown4]

Sounds like Steve Kerr may actually have to start coaching.

db

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