Re: THE OFFICIAL DRAFT DAY THREAD

[Ram]

I'm guessing the Clippers pick will be a Mavs 2016 type pick by then, 15-19 range. 

Still, 2019 is a long time to wait for a player who (b/c the pick is lotto protected) might not be as good as Deyonta Davis, who many thought would go 9-16. Or it could have been Diallo or Onuaku who can really block shots as well. 

Jackson and Bentil seem like great value though. 

Lots more to come once it hits July.

[tjmakz]

Cleveland is buying the #54 pick and drafting Kay Felder.
I like his game a lot even though he is only 5'9".
Nice pick up by Cleveland.

[gyso]

58. Abdel Nader

[steve3344]

58. Abdel Nader

I'd rather have Ralph.

[NYCelt]

Well, we lost the playoff game, tough night.  Defensive lapses and lack of run support wasted decent pitching.  They put it behind them when I took them all out for ice cream.  Bronco League done; on to the professionally coached tournament team.  I'm out of the dugout and in the stands; popcorn anyone?

The NBA draft; um, interesting night.

Brown; good enough pick.  Will probably earn minutes quickly and contribute some scoring punch.  Going to have to work on the shooting. Arambone and others liked him for the third pick, good call!

From there, however, um, interesting.  Going to have to think about the rationale.  Demetrius Jackson at #45 may actually have a better shot to play on the parquet before #16 and #23.

Truth is it's impossible to judge until players selected suit up and hit the floor.  It's possible we got some hidden gems, who knows?  With a relatively weak draft the front office may have felt the best bet was to take a gamble on the foreign market, and maybe that will pay dividends.  I've got to say, however, after Brown at #3, I'm very puzzled.

Further thoughts from us all tomorrow, for sure.

[worcester]

Danny has a vision and philosophy for the Celts...build through the draft or trade picks and players when appropriate and possible. He's very good at both. Little chance to sign star free agents. This year he got 3 #1's all of whom have great potential, Jaylen maybe all star potential. He also picked Demetrius Jackson whom I really like and Bentil who might actually be a keeper. He had too many draft picks to consider signing all and did the next best things - traded 2 second rounders for what'll probably be a mid first rounder in 2019. So going forward we almost for sure have a lottery pick in 2017 and 2018 (Nets), our own first round picks in 2017,18, and 19, and the Clips pick in 2019. That gives us many opportunities to acquire quality players on the cheap (two first rounders for each of the next three years), and we can keep them long term for not much money. Danny's banking on his acumen and that of his scouts to pick quality, inexpensive, young players and on Brad's ability to develop them. Not a bad plan at all for one of the already best teams in the East.

Kudos Danny. I'm keeping the faith and being patient.

[Ram]

Danny has a vision and philosophy for the Celts...build through the draft or trade picks and players when appropriate and possible. He's very good at both. Little chance to sign star fee agents. This year he got 3 #1's all of whom have great potential, Jaylen maybe all star potential. He also picked Demetrius Jackson whom I really like and Bentil who might actually be a keeper. He had too many draft picks to consider signing all and did the next best things - traded 2 second rounders for what'll probably be a mid first rounder in 2019. So going forward we almost for sure have a lottery pick in 2017 and 2018 (Nets), our own first round picks in 2017,18, and 19, and the Clips pick in 2019. That gives us many opportunities to acquire quality players on the cheap (two first rounders for each of the next three years), and we can keep them long term for not much money. Danny's banking on his acumen and that of his scouts to pick quality, inexpensive, young players and on Brad's ability to develop them. Not a bad plan at all for one of the already best teams in the East.

Kudos Danny. I'm keeping the faith and being patient.

Great post. I agree!

Also, we have the Grizzlies first rd pick in 2018.

[arambone]

Danny has a vision and philosophy for the Celts...build through the draft or trade picks and players when appropriate and possible. He's very good at both. Little chance to sign star fee agents. This year he got 3 #1's all of whom have great potential, Jaylen maybe all star potential. He also picked Demetrius Jackson whom I really like and Bentil who might actually be a keeper. He had too many draft picks to consider signing all and did the next best things - traded 2 second rounders for what'll probably be a mid first rounder in 2019. So going forward we almost for sure have a lottery pick in 2017 and 2018 (Nets), our own first round picks in 2017,18, and 19, and the Clips pick in 2019. That gives us many opportunities to acquire quality players on the cheap (two first rounders for each of the next three years), and we can keep them long term for not much money. Danny's banking on his acumen and that of his scouts to pick quality, inexpensive, young players and on Brad's ability to develop them. Not a bad plan at all for one of the already best teams in the East.

Kudos Danny. I'm keeping the faith and being patient.

Yeah, great post.

[wideclyde]

Worcester,

I think that the Nets get our first round pick in 2017 if the Cs indeed swap picks with them. So, right now we only have the one 2017 first round pick.

There is a great point to be made by having too many draft picks in any particular draft, and I hope that Ainge stays away from this issue in the future.

[steve3344]

Watched the pre-draft show on NBA-TV last night - they had Jaylen Brown going eighth and here are what their analysts said about him:

(Seth Davis) - A very explosive athlete. A considerable talent. But I gotta tell you guys, having talked to numerous NBA scouts over the last few weeks, not a good vibe coming out of the Jaylen Brown camp if you will. Finished the season in horrendous fashion, shot 10 for 48 over his last five games. 3 for 17 against Utah. Was awful against Hawaii when they lost. And you hear these quotes from anonymous GM's that he did not perform well in the interview process in Chicago. They describe him as arrogant. You hear some things about him. For a guy who had a pretty good freshman season and should have the potential to be an NBA level athlete - certainly IS an NBA level athlete - his understanding of the game and maybe his understanding of what he doesn't understand could be working against him. He's going to be a lottery pick but there are more questions about Jaylen Brown than I would have anticipated coming into the draft.

(Stu Jackson) - He is another player that is based on having an upside. This is not a player that is ready to play today.

(David Aldridge) - He's got a long way to go. This is not a finished product. He is not a complete player. Red flag to me: he's a wing player who shot 29% on threes. That scares me. But can he get better? Sure.

[steve3344]

NBA-TV on their pre-draft show had the Celtics picking Bender at #3, Malachi Richardson at #16 and Thon Maker at #23.

Their comments about Maker:

(Seth Davis) - I love him!!  I remember when he was a junior in high school I went down to an AAU tournament in Augusta to check out Jahlil Okafor.  I never heard of this guy before and he DOMINATED Okafor.  He plays with passion and reckless abandon and a high give a damn factor too.  He's been tested as being the third tallest player in the draft, top four athletically.  7'1", HUGE upside.  I am a Thon Maker fan!  I want to be on record:  this guy is going to be a VERY good pro.

(David Aldridge) - I went up to Toronto to do a piece on this kid and to Seth's point - what a bright-eyed young man!  This kid WANTS to be good.  He's worked really hard.  Does he still have a ways to go?  Sure he does.  He's 219 pounds MAYBE.  But he's put on some weight.  I think he'll put on more weight.  I think he's going to be more of a running kind of a 4.  He's not going to be a catch and shoot 4.  But he's going to be a really athletic kind of 4.  Puts the ball on the floor pretty good for a guy his size.  He's been very uneven when he's competed against guys at his level in high school, so it's not going to be an immediate impact.  But I think if you stick with this kid, he wants this BAD.  He really does.  And he wants to do it the right way.  And he's trying to do it the right way, by gradually getting better and putting on more weight.  And trying to be a better basketball player.

(Vince Cellini to Stu Jackson) - That's two big endorsements Stu.

(Stu Jackson) -  I'm sold!  This guy should be the third pick in the draft!!

Laughter all around.

But tears in Boston...

[steve3344]

David Aldridge's comments on Ante Zizic (they had him going 27 to Toronto): He was in the Adriatic League last year. That's a pretty good league. He did some good things on the Under 19 team. So he's got some potential. Played well for Cibona in the Adriatic League so he's going to be a good player in time. Could be a pretty good contributing player. He's already got size. Just needs to get a little more experience.

[worcester]

Wide Clyde - you are 100% correct. We get to swap #1's with the Nets in 2017.

[steve3344]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/23/gasper/6S1ctvdE4iNcqPzMSWycwO/story.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/23/boston-celtics-nba-draft-picks/GyQJ8FMHU21ZnvsXQUfU6M/story.html

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/24/here-closer-look-jaylen-brown-celtics-top-draft-pick/oJF6Uz3xs42V6HeFnTxgVJ/story.html?p1=Article_Recirculation_Pos2

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/with_no_deals_to_be_made_celtics_take_cal_s_jaylen_brown_with_no_3_pick

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/bulpett_celtics_jaylen_brown_sweats_out_no_3_selection

[painter33]

Just read Jaylen did not hire an agent, and instead is relying on advice from former players Isiah Thomas (Zeke, not our own IT) and Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Doesn't seem like the best judgement - maybe he isn't as smart as he thinks he is....

His initial contract is set by the league and is based on draft position. Why give away a percentage for no return (right now)? I'm sure that potential endorsements will come his way without an agent having to beat the weeds for them. So, for now, an agent is superfluous and a waste of this kid's money. Eventually, he'll need someone to advise him, which might be an attorney and not an agent, OR, he'll find an agent that he trusts from being around other players' agents.

It's a money-smart move. I applaud his confidence, and it seems his focus is on basketball, at least that's my hope.

[painter33]

Pick 16: another Ainge, "Oops, I thought they meant the 58th pick. My bad (aside: someone find Austin and slap him silly)". Danny is a better 2nd round picker than 1st. Maybe he can't operate under the pressure of a higher draft position? I'll volunteer to slap Austin silly.

[BaronV]

I thought we were going to use our 2nd rounders for stashing.

Dboss

Wasn't this kid supposed to go in the 1st? Aslo, can't we still stash him even if he's american born?

You can stash a US born player, but a) they need to agree to it, and b) there needs to be a foreign team that wants to sign him, knowing he might leave for the NBA in a year. I know the euro leagues at least have rules that limit the number and usage of foreign players on the teams, so there isn't always a spot with a high quality team. With most of the foreign players, they're already playing for a professional team somewhere, and they can usually stay there or extend their contract, making it easier to leave them there.

[bobheckler]

First of all, congratulations to arambone for calling the shots right on Jaylen Brown and Thon Maker.  Apparently Milwaukee is trying to corner the market on Freaks.

Heading into this draft we had two glaring needs:  shooting and length.  I don't see where we fixed them.

#3 - Jaylen Brown.  Uber-athletic, multi-positional, NBA-ready body and defense.  7' wingspan on a 6'7" body.  Has the rap of not being a good shooter, but he claimed he hit 74 out of 100 3s in his workout.  Jamal Murray, probably the 2nd best shooter in the draft, hit 77.  So not that big a difference between them.  The taking of Brown, to me, says that all the deals on the table for #3 were total crap.  Wyc said that and that pick makes it sound like he meant it.  Chris Dunn was the much more tradeable player AND IF THE DECISION WOULD HAVE BEEN TO KEEP DUNN then we have players in Bradley and Smart that would be valuable trade pieces.  The player Brown will replace will either be Evan Turner (but only on defense) or Jae Crowder (if Jae is gone in a Butler trade or such).  If Turner leaves, as he very well might, then we have a hole at ballhandler that Brown cannot fill.  In fact, he has a rep for a high turnover rate.

Danny definitely did not draft "for need" here, not with Murray and Hield on the board or even Bender, for length.  Nor did he draft as trade bait over the next month or two.  He drafted Jaylen Brown because he really likes Jaylen Brown and thinks he's a keeper.  So, deal with it.


#16 - Guerschon Yabusele.  Good luck coming up with a nickname like "Sully" with this one.  I don't know a damn thing about him.  Another one of these "huh?" picks by Danny.  6'8", 270#.  He's Sully, minus an inch.  Man.  6'9" Jared Sullinger crammed into a 6'8" bag.  Well, we know the answer to the question "where's the beef?".  It's in Boston.  He doesn't look fat though, does he?  He looks like a bull.  LOTS of muscle here.  Buh bye, Sully, buh bye fatso.  Sign-and-Trade?  I doubt Danny will sign Sully to a one or two year contract and stash his #16 pick in Europe for that time.  He's not Dario Saric, I don't see Gus (ok, there's a nickname.  Better than GuY) as being the type or quality of player that you'd use a mid-1st round pick on and be willing to wait a few years for him to come over because he's THAT good.


Watching his scouting videos.  Strengths: He is STRONG.  He has an NBA body built for delivering punishment.  And he runs.  He shot 42.6% from 3.





Weakness, according to the video, he isn't a rim protector.







If International can come up with some good film of this kid, that'd be great.  It looks to me like Danny used a #16 pick to replace #20 pick Jared Sullinger.


#23 - Ante Zizic.  7', 250# with a 7'3" wingspan.  A New NBA big.  19 years old.  It will be interesting to see why Danny went with him and not Diamond Stone (who ended up dropping all the way to #40).  If Gus is a replacement for Sully then Ante is a replacement for Tyler.  We still need a legit NBA starting center.  A few will be available in free agency.  I hope you know what you're doing, Danny, rolling the dice like this.

The following chart explores who the most productive under-22 players in European basketball have been thus far (minimum 10 games, 15mpg+). The fact that Ziziz leads this group in PER, despite being the only player on it not born in 1994 or 1995, is certainly eye-opening. (Comments and chart courtesy of Draftexpress)




These scouting videos are 4 months old.  He is listed as being 8-10# heavier now than they say.

Strengths:  He runs (so does Zeller), does pnr very well (so does Zeller) but Antic likes contact (and Zeller does not).  Excellent rebounder at both ends, leads the Adriatic league in boards, for whatever that's worth, I don't know how competitive that league is, but we do know that Zeller is not a strong rebounder.  Watching the video, he likes to put his body on people for position.  He's a worker.  Gotta love that.







One of the advantages international players have is that they play against men years older, stronger and more experienced than them.  That's what I'm telling myself today.  I'm telling myself that he leads the Adriatic League in rebounds and they are against full-grown men.  Yeah...


#45, Demetrius Jackson.  A 6'2" point guard.  That gives us three 6'2" and under.  Does Danny get these guys just so he can feel like a giant?  When was the last time he drafted a big point guard?  Allan Ray?  Ok, I guess that would turn him off.  What is odd is that Cowens' brother-from-another-mother, AJ Hammons, was picked immediately after Jackson, #46.  That's even lower than he was projected by just about every mock draft.  So, Danny DEFINITELY is not in the market for an traditional Old School NBA center and, apparently, neither is any other GM unless it's a throwaway bottom-half-of-the-2nd-round pick.  Most of Zizic's points come in the paint, but he also runs very well for a 7'er.  Danny and Brad want athletes and they want uptempo.

Jackson looks like a slightly taller IT.  6'2", 194#, almost 6'6" wingspan, athletically explosive.  Very quick.  37 1/2" no step vertical and a 43 1/2" max vertical is unbelievable for a 6'2" guard.  IT had a 31 1/2" no step and a 40" max vertical.  Avery Bradley, also 6'2", had a 31 1/2" and a 37 1/2" and Terry Rozier had a 33" and 38".








Danny traded #31 and #35 for a future first rounder.


So, did we get a shooter?  No.  Did we get a rim protector?  No.  Did we draft players that, even though they don't fit our specific needs, Danny can trade because they are held in high esteem by other GMs?  No.  If that is what his strategy was, because he didn't like any of the players in this draft, he could have drafted Chris Dunn (and either traded him or kept him and traded Bradley, Smart or Rozier), he could have drafted Malachi Richardson or Bembry or any of a couple of players with #16 that other teams would covet.


I don't know these players well enough to develop a solid opinion of them, I'm hoping that board members who do follow NCAA and Euro basketball can help me out with that, but I don't understand Danny's strategy.  It seems to me he drafted replacements, not upgrades.  What that means is that there are trades coming or we are looking at another year of organic growth.

Summer League is a week and a half away.


bob


.

[worcester]

Bob, Jalen is not a replacement for Jae or ET. He could be an upgrade for Jae, a huge upgrade - or a huge bust. Only 19.

Gus could be an upgrade over Sully. That would be easy to do. Could he be another Barkley? Is that even a possibility? I have no idea. Only 20.

Zizic. Only 19. Could turn into a huge upgrade at our 5 spot. Will he? Who knows?

Jackson - could be another IT but better. Who knows?

[tjmakz]

This draft for Boston probably leaves fans with many questions and the continued need to be patient.

Jaylen Brown could be the best pick long term, but he won't help them a whole lot over the next year or so.
Especially if Boston now decides to let Evan Turner walk to give Brown playing time.
Brown has not been a good shooter, including his free throws.

The kid from France at #16 seems to be a head scratcher. He couldn't have been taken later?
Danny is probably looking at him to hopefully be something close to Draymond Green.
I would definitely be concerned about his weight, but I'm not sure how much of that is fat or muscle.
He seems to be a Sullinger replacement.

Zizic seems to be a player who is a pretty good prospect who will fill the role of Ty Zeller.

The 2nd rounders all have question marks and good upside, but Boston probably doesn't have room for any of them on the roster.

It has to be a disappointing time as Danny hasn't been able to turn the draft picks into a star or really much of a roster upgrade, if at all.

Last night didn't help Boston in their pursuit of top or middle tier free agents.

But, if you can now focus on a long term plan, yes, it could work out fine for Boston fans.

[worcester]

Good read TJ.

[Ram]

Worcester,

I think that the Nets get our first round pick in 2017 if the Cs indeed swap picks with them.  So, right now we only have the one 2017 first round pick.

There is a great point to be made by having too many draft picks in any particular draft, and I hope that Ainge stays away from this issue in the future.

As long as you go international I don't think having too many picks was really hurting us. 

I was a fan of trading pick #3 for Noel, Covington and picks 24 and 26, actually. 

If the draft fell the same way after the Sixers took Dunn (Wolves take Murray, Nuggets take Brown?) then the C's could have drafted Ellsenson at 16 and with picks 23, 24 and 26 gone international as 3 out of Yabusele, Luwawu, Korkmaz, Zizic and Zubac would all have been there. Yabusele expected to go 25-35 and wasn't in the green room. 

I'd have even given the Sixers picks 35 and 58 to complete that trade (maybe gotten their 2nd rd pick next year). Taken Deyonta Davis at 31. Stuck with the great Jackson/Bentil value picks at 45 and 51 and really only had to worry about moving on from three out of Amir, Zeller, Sully and Jerebko to fit in Noel, Davis and Ellenson. We likely were moving on from two of them anyhow. Covington takes the wing spot Brown gets and definitely means no Turner.

I still think the C's would be better positioned for the future having done such a trade.

[international]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1I6uP67-cM

[international]

https://youtu.be/uMk56RR4oyI

[arambone]

Worcester,

I think that the Nets get our first round pick in 2017 if the Cs indeed swap picks with them.  So, right now we only have the one 2017 first round pick.

There is a great point to be made by having too many draft picks in any particular draft, and I hope that Ainge stays away from this issue in the future.

As long as you go international I don't think having too many picks was really hurting us. 

I was a fan of trading pick #3 for Noel, Covington and picks 24 and 26, actually. 

If the draft fell the same way after the Sixers took Dunn (Wolves take Murray, Nuggets take Brown?) then the C's could have drafted Ellsenson at 16 and with picks 23, 24 and 26 gone international as 3 out of Yabusele, Luwawu, Korkmaz, Zizic and Zubac would all have been there. Yabusele expected to go 25-35 and wasn't in the green room. 

I'd have even given the Sixers picks 35 and 58 to complete that trade (maybe gotten their 2nd rd pick next year). Taken Deyonta Davis at 31. Stuck with the great Jackson/Bentil value picks at 45 and 51 and really only had to worry about moving on from three out of Amir, Zeller, Sully and Jerebko to fit in Noel, Davis and Ellenson. We likely were moving on from two of them anyhow. Covington takes the wing spot Brown gets and definitely means no Turner.

I still think the C's would be better positioned for the future having done such a trade.

A few thoughts come to mind. #1, Noel is terrible on offense, and Danny and Brad hate playing 4 on 5 offensively. All the advanced stats they love probably show that it's exceedingly difficult to have an above average NBA defense when playing with a non-skilled offensive player.

#2 is Noel's rumored intangibles. A young friend who played in the New England AAU circuit told me that Noel got kicked out of his New Hampshire prep school for assaulting a girl. He ended up at another basketball factory type school before heading to UKentucky. Also, even if that rumor happens to be false, Noel totally trashed his last rented house in Philly, left marijuana joints everywhere, and constructed a fake tomb stone with the landlord's name on it.

Not a Brad Stevens/Danny Ainge kind of guy, I'm guessing.


#3 We already have a major roster crunch, and we need quality a lot more than quantity. Two more late first rounders? Robert Covington? None of those things fill any needs whatsoever. Even the draft picks we did keep were Euros intended to be stashed for at least one year. So the equation comes down to Noel Vs Brown, and Danny (correctly in my view) decided that Brown has more star potential than Noel.

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