the lake show

beat wrote:BSK
Artest is no where near the defensive player of 2-3 years ago nor is Paul as much of an offensive threat. Thing is for this team he doesn't need to be. Right now about the only player for the C's that cannot afford a BAD game is Rondo. ( by bad I mean few assists and too many shots IMHO) So far in this post season the C's have played 13 games. Not once as the same player led the team in scoring 2 straight games.

As you well know it's not about ONE player (ask any Cleveland fan)

beat

exactly, and part of what i was tryiing to say in my post above. we have a LOT of weapons, and with that in mind, low post play and Rondo's X-factor will be keys to the series.

Michael

Paul is moving and playing way better during the playoffs the regular season does not need to be considered here. Its gone and this team player to player and together is radically different.

Artest played incred against Durant and I watched every game. The shots Durant made were well guarded. But pp has been playing long enough to know a few tricks Durant does not. SHould be a great matchup.

TJ

an article to show you Ray's production

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20100521the_celtics_ray_of_sunshine/

mrkleen09 wrote:

babyskyhook wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:If Ron Artest is lucky, Paul Pierce will let him carry his bag from the team bus to the locker room. That will be the extent of Ron's impact on the finals.

Kleen-

you are hilarious. I got a good laugh out of that one.

Paul Pierce averaged 18 pts, 4.5 reb, and 3 asst while shooting 47% and 41% on 3s this year

vs LAL he averaged 13 pts, 3.5 reb, and 2.5, while shooting 40% + 36% on 3s


I'm sure that's purely a coincidence.


Kind of like this one:


Kevin Durant:

Reg season: 30 pts, 8 reb, 3 asst 48% fg 37% 3s

vs LA in Rd 1: 25 pts, 8 reb, 2 asst 35% fg 29% 3s





Epic Fail, Klen. Epic Fail.

Pulling stats out of context - now that takes talent Sky.

We will have to see how it all plays out.....but I think we both know Paul Pierce will come up big when the Celtics need him....no matter who is covering him. Artest is a good defender - but he's not that good...and not good enough to nutralize one of the best big game players in the NBA.

And if Pierce has a game in the next round where he scores more than 20 points - your little analysis above will be the "epic fail"

No Kleen-

THIS is pulling stats out of context:

mrkleen09 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:mrkleen,

We can only assume that your Artest comment was for entertainment purposes only.
Durant might have a comment or two about Artest's defense.

Not a joke at all. Durant averaged 25 ppg and shot nearly 11 FT per game against the Lakers. If that is good defense, I will take my chances.

You threw Durant's raw ppg # out and use it to mock Ron's defense. Do you think we weren't watching the games and would just buy that ? What a joke. Anyone who watched that series saw how Ron was up into Durant the entire time he was on the floor and turned him into an inefficient, volume shooter. That's called great defense. No one is completely shutting down a guy like Durant or Pierce. The goal is to make them less efficient.


The reason I pulled Durant and Pierce's stats vs Artest was to disprove your statements that: a) Ron didn't play good defense on Durant, which you then pulled some stats out of context to try to puff up your claim.

b) "If Ron Artest is lucky, Paul Pierce will let him carry his bag from the team bus to the locker room. That will be the extent of Ron's impact on the finals"


Both of your statements are obviously false.


I have too much respect for Pierce's game to say that Ron will shut him down- he won't. There may well be a game where Pierce goes for 20, but on the whole, Ron will negatively affect him- slow him down, make his points harder to come by and make him less efficient. Historically, Pierce's performances when matched vs Artest (on any team Artest has played on) are below his averages for that season. There's a reason. Artest is one of the best defenders of his generation. And he and Pierce are slowing down physically at the same rate, so they are well-matched.


What I don't understand is why you would make these kinds of statements in the first place ? I've seen enough of your other posts to know that you understand the game, and while you can definitely be a homer sometimes, you're obviously smart enough to know that Artest will have some impact on Pierce's game. The degree of that impact is debatable, but it will certainly be more than "carrying his bag". It just surprises me that you would put something out there that's just total nonsense.

That's the Epic Fail in all of this Kleen. It's making statements that have absolutely no basis in reality and then getting called on them. Kind of like Amare talking about how he used to dominate Pau before a game in which Gasol absolutely owned him over and over. That's Epic Fail.

beat wrote:BSK

for anyone to say ONE player shuts down or limits another is a bit wrong sure they MAY have a little effect but how many times is it really mano-o mano. (this is presicely the reason Boston is where they are)

Artest is no where near the defensive player of 2-3 years ago nor is Paul as much of an offensive threat. Thing is for this team he doesn't need to be. Right now about the only player for the C's that cannot afford a BAD game is Rondo. ( by bad I mean few assists and too many shots IMHO) So far in this post season the C's have played 13 games. Not once as the same player led the team in scoring 2 straight games.

As you well know it's not about ONE player (ask any Cleveland fan)

beat

beat-

it's funny. I almost added the "Obviously, there's a team component to defense" line to that original post, but my assumption was that everyone on this board knows that.

But even with that said, for Kleen to state that Artest doesn't affect guys like Pierce or Durant is just not the case. The Lakers give very little help vs the other team's wings and tend to have the defender run through screens instead of switching them, so when someone like Pierce or Durant is in the game, Ron is guarding them the vast majority of the time.

Yes it's a team game, and it's not all about one guy shutting down another (a term which I never used, btw). But when player A is in man defense against player B pretty much every minute those guys are on the court, and player B's numbers vs player A's team are much less efficient vs his season averages, there is a direct correlation. Just look at the difference in Pierce's production vs LBJ as opposed to vs Matt Barnes. NIght and day. Barnes can't guard PIerce, and Pierce doesn't have to expend energy on D vs Barnes the way he does vs LBJ. No surprise that his numbers are so much higher vs Orl than Cle. Pierce even said it himself.

So yes, it's a team game, but individual matchups do matter. Just ask Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis.

Or Carlos Boozer, Amare Stoudemire and Jason Richardson.

jeb65 wrote:TJ

an article to show you Ray's production

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20100521the_celtics_ray_of_sunshine/

jeb,

This article only reviewed his good games. He has had many great shooting games. I like Ray a lot as a person and as a player.
I would love for him to have been a Laker.
But why didn't the writer review the 4 games in which Ray had 2 or fewer made field goals, while playing over 35 min/game in those 4 games?
My point was that with Artest's D on Pierce and Perkins lack of scoring, Boston could have a real hard time scoring if Ray has (1) or (2) 2 FG's made games in the Finals.

Who is gonna be guarding Ray, Fisher?

Sorry to jump in on this, for what it's worth, of the 21 times Pierce and Artest have played against each other, Pierce has outscored Artest 14-6. Obviously Artest isn't known for his offense as much as his defense, so I looked further to see how many times out of the 14 "wins" for Pierce he has scored above his season average. It's 9-5 in Pierce's favor. Below are the links I used to check this info. I'm rushed for time right now, so feel free to double check my math!


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=artesro01&p2=piercpa01

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/paul_pierce/career_stats.html

swedeinestonia wrote:Who is gonna be guarding Ray, Fisher?

Kobe for the most part, probably S. Brown when he is in.

If you leave Kobe on Ray then you think Fisher is gonna guard Rondo.

That should be interesting

Tj

I get it. I am just saying I look for Ray to be just fine. He is a tough tough nut and tends to rise up in big games.

Cheers

Jeb

tjmakz wrote:

swedeinestonia wrote:Who is gonna be guarding Ray, Fisher?

Kobe for the most part, probably S. Brown when he is in.

NO- it will be DFish.

Kobe will be on Rondo, just as he has been every time they've played since '08.

Rondo will scorch Fisher, whereas Kobe can do a better job staying in front of him. He will go under screens, as his length can give RR some problems.

Fish is much better suited to chasing Ray through screen after screen all game. That's what Fish is built for. He'll get at least one moving screen call per game, and muscle his way through the rest of the time. Ray will get shots, but Fish will tag along close behind. Ray's release is so quick he's almost impossible for anyone to stop, so might as well be Fish on him.

And they're much better off not having Kobe take the kind of beating that the Bulldog is going to take running through Perk and Baby's screens anyway. Fisher is going to have some serious bruises by the end of the series.

Sky

I dont like the damn guy but I got to hand it to him for toughness. Fisher is a tough tough guy. He will GIVE some bruises too.

Both teams are playing the best ball of their current incarnations and just flat peaking.

Word, Jeb. Word.

Fish and Rondo remind me of each other. NOt in their games or body types, which couldn't be more different, but in their attitudes. They are both very tough- very scrappy and not afraid to deal a hard shot to the other guy if their team needs it.

Just ask Scola or Brad Miller!

Yup. Rondo gets hit hard a ton and he just gets up and plays. The Cavs tried to play tough with him and some of us were calling for retribution (Me) and Rondo just got up and played.

Fisher scares me in the clutch as much as kobe does. With the game on the line I dont want him anywhere near the ball.

Kobe might split time guarding Ray and Rondo. I would expect Brown to guard Rondo when he is in the game.
LA has no real answer for Rondo.
They will play off of him and give him room to shoot.
If he shoots as well as he has been, he will put up big numbers.
I would rather have Rondo score 25 then for others to get into a rhythm and have easy looks.

tjmakz wrote:Kobe might split time guarding Ray and Rondo. I would expect Brown to guard Rondo when he is in the game.
LA has no real answer for Rondo.
They will play off of him and give him room to shoot.
If he shoots as well as he has been, he will put up big numbers.
I would rather have Rondo score 25 then for others to get into a rhythm and have easy looks.

TJ,

I agree with everything you said above.

bob

.

jeb65 wrote:Yup. Rondo gets hit hard a ton and he just gets up and plays. The Cavs tried to play tough with him and some of us were calling for retribution (Me) and Rondo just got up and played.

Fisher scares me in the clutch as much as kobe does. With the game on the line I dont want him anywhere near the ball.

jeb,

Fisher doesn't scare me in the clutch. Neither does Kobe especially (he's no more deadly in the clutch than any other time). Gasol does.

Here's why: Run down the list until you find Fisher's name. The 3ptfg% you're looking for is .286

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT8.HTM

Now look at Kobe and Gasol using this sort:

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT6.HTM

bob

.

babyskyhook
Anyone who saw that series has to agree Artest played great defense on Durant and bothered him all series,making a huge impact,I don't know why mr kleen would deny that.And agreed Pierce will not have it as easy vs Artest as he did 2 years ago in bad match ups for your team vs Radmonovic and Luke Walton.I still believe Pierce with his smarts and craftiness will figure out some way to take over a few games in the next series.When Pierce gets in a zone he can score over anyone for a stretch,even Jordan in his prime.
cow

jeb65 wrote:Tj

cheers mate. I'm glad your back. we both love our teams but having you and sky and my beloved mg (and donald) around has forever altered my perspective and helped me grow into a better man.

J. Egg. B.

Jeb,

Thank you for the shout out for myself and Donald. I was so glad that I got the opportunity to meet you, Bobheckler, and of course Sam and Mrs Sam in SF. That meant allot to me. I expect it will get pretty intense around this board in about another week or so, but not nearly as bad as BDC. I just hope that anything I post is not taken personal. They are just my thoughts. My thoughts on the series, my thougts on the rivary, my thoughts on whatever comes up. I believe the character of the personnel on this board can look past differences without to much hostility, and then get over it. So, good luck my friend in closing out the Magic. I hope the Celtics have a safe flight to LA for game one.

MG

cowens/oldschool wrote:babyskyhook
Anyone who saw that series has to agree Artest played great defense on Durant and bothered him all series,making a huge impact,I don't know why mr kleen would deny that.And agreed Pierce will not have it as easy vs Artest as he did 2 years ago in bad match ups for your team vs Radmonovic and Luke Walton.I still believe Pierce with his smarts and craftiness will figure out some way to take over a few games in the next series.When Pierce gets in a zone he can score over anyone for a stretch,even Jordan in his prime.
cow

Once again Cow - seems I have to set you straight on what was ACTUALLY said.

Here is my quote: I watched the OKC/LA series. I saw Durant go through stretches where his shot was off. Sometimes it was because of Artest - sometimes it was because the kid is 22 an putting too much pressure on himself.

Where in that quote does it say that Artest did not make an impact on Durant's shooting?

Looks like we are not done with your nitpicking of my posts. If that is the case, so be it.

As for your comment mentioning Pierce and Jordan in the same sentence....I have to laugh out loud.

mrkleen,

This was your original comment about Artest's defense against Durant:

"Durant averaged 25 ppg and shot nearly 11 FT per game against the Lakers. If that is good defense, I will take my chances."

None of the Celtics fans on this board came to your defense on this one. You lose credibility when you make such statements which are either ill-informed or intentionally unobjective.

Anyway, I hope you have a good weekend and all you guys here enjoy the game on Saturday.
Time to log off.

Tj

Artest is one hell of an on the ball defender...I maintain a lesser team defender than Ariza but that's old hat. These two teams match up so damn well. Should be one for the ages and we are all lucky to be alive.

I will have eggs everyday of the Finals to celebrate another Lakers/Celtics Series.

Yeah but can you handle 50?