Patriots owner Robert Kraft charged with solicitation of prostitution

dbrown4 wrote:Ktronic1,

Our illustrious leader Sam had a way of writing that was like no one I have ever seen nor probably will ever see.  BobH on this site comes the closest.  Both are eloquent but Sam had a way of quickly responding to every post with style and grace.  His posts were longer than what most would consider normal in this 140 character world we live in, but there was never a boring or superfluous word he wrote.  He was captivating to say the very least.  I think of him just about every time I post.  I am no Sam. So bear with me, please.      

No doubt Mr. Sterling's words are offensive.  But you are proving at least one of my points in this thread.  He's not going to get it.  His words are not offensive to him.  You also, using terms like 'his Racist practices' and 'Donald Sterling's word....They're offensive, hurtful and degrading" such that if these words ever got back to Mr. Sterling and said to him he would turn on you and say the same back to you.  You would be speaking to a brick wall.  It is clear from what you have stated above that he does this repeatedly.  He doesn't know the difference....yet.        

I reviewed this whole thread and nothing had been said up until your post about this approaching politics.  Now racism is a topic that has a lot of traction in the political arena because of the number of ears readily available to chime in and it is typically used to silence conversation these days, but discussing it here at least in this thread is not political nor meant to be political.  It only becomes political when one starts taking sides and imposes that view on the accused and tries to supplant or marginalize any point of view for that matter, no matter how offensive.  One can't do that.  One can't have their cake and eat it too.        

On this site, Sam clearly states we can only voice our views in the arena of conviviality from the Latin meaning "with life" or "fit for a feast".  Suppression is not convivial.  

I personally believe Adam Silver missed a great opportunity to mend a racial fence here and lead the way in race relations with the Clippers owner.  He chose exile over repairing a bridge that had been blown up.  I'm curious if Mr. Silver sat down with him as a last resort and said something to the effect of, "Mr. Sterling, we have a problem.  I need you to do the following.  For the Clippers, the NBA, this country and the world.  It is a huge opportunity for you.  Your beliefs and language regarding African Americans are offensive to many in this league, country and world.  They have hurt and will continue to hurt many people.  I know you are a man of power and wealth and that you grew up in a different era.  Times have changed.  I want you to do something that will be extremely difficult for you at first but it will be a lot easier for you in the long run than my first choice which really isn't a choice and that is to sell your team effective immediately.  But I want you to do this for me and for this league that has given you a good part of your wealth and livelihood.    

First I want you to personally and sincerely apologize to every player on the team and everyone in your organization and ask for their forgiveness.  This may take the rest of your life.  It will be extremely difficult for you at first but after about the 10th time or so you are going to get what I'm getting at.  You are going to shed more unforced tears than you ever have in your life if you do this the right way.  But you know what?  They are going to forgive you.  And the burden your words and actions will begin to be lifted off your shoulders and also off of those you offended.  Some will forgive you right off the bat, others maybe a little later, some may take much longer but I want you to walk in each of their shoes.  The ones that don't forgive you right off the bat, walk a little further with them.  Hear their story."

Something to that effect.  I believe you would have a totally different result.  A true movement for race relations if you will.  In my opinion, Adam Silver chose to cut bait and marginalize, not to deal with the real issues which are education and forgiveness.  Now if DS still was running off at the mouth after AS delivered something like the above, then Option A is all that is left.  I believe DS would have chosen Option B after some careful thought and prayer.

I honestly believe DS is still who he is.  Now he can't even apologize to those he offended with his ban from the NBA.  Selling his team?  That doesn't effect him.  He still gets the money.  He just swapped the team for cash.  His balance sheet didn't change.  This "punishment" did nothing to change behavior.  Of him or anyone else for that matter.  Asking for forgiveness and receiving forgiveness?  That changes people.  That changes behavior.  

That's enough.  I did see on Highly Questionable recently (which btw is the greatest show ever!  It is a show on ESPN about the great love and respect between a father and his son and the great time they have together every day of their lives)  that one of questions debated was should Robert Kraft begin turning over daily operations to his son...because of all this.  Now while this isn't what I said would happen, it's clearly in the ballpark and it's just the first swing by the media and public opinion.  Again, I hope I am wrong but here it comes just like clockwork.    

db                            

dbrown4 wrote:Ktronic1,

Our illustrious leader Sam had a way of writing that was like no one I have ever seen nor probably will ever see.  BobH on this site comes the closest.  Both are eloquent but Sam had a way of quickly responding to every post with style and grace.  His posts were longer than what most would consider normal in this 140 character world we live in, but there was never a boring or superfluous word he wrote.  He was captivating to say the very least.  I think of him just about every time I post.  I am no Sam. So bear with me, please.      

No doubt Mr. Sterling's words are offensive.  But you are proving at least one of my points in this thread.  He's not going to get it.  His words are not offensive to him.  You also, using terms like 'his Racist practices' and 'Donald Sterling's word....They're offensive, hurtful and degrading" such that if these words ever got back to Mr. Sterling and said to him he would turn on you and say the same back to you.  You would be speaking to a brick wall.  It is clear from what you have stated above that he does this repeatedly.  He doesn't know the difference....yet.        

I reviewed this whole thread and nothing had been said up until your post about this approaching politics.  Now racism is a topic that has a lot of traction in the political arena because of the number of ears readily available to chime in and it is typically used to silence conversation these days, but discussing it here at least in this thread is not political nor meant to be political.  It only becomes political when one starts taking sides and imposes that view on the accused and tries to supplant or marginalize any point of view for that matter, no matter how offensive.  One can't do that.  One can't have their cake and eat it too.        

On this site, Sam clearly states we can only voice our views in the arena of conviviality from the Latin meaning "with life" or "fit for a feast".  Suppression is not convivial.  

I personally believe Adam Silver missed a great opportunity to mend a racial fence here and lead the way in race relations with the Clippers owner.  He chose exile over repairing a bridge that had been blown up.  I'm curious if Mr. Silver sat down with him as a last resort and said something to the effect of, "Mr. Sterling, we have a problem.  I need you to do the following.  For the Clippers, the NBA, this country and the world.  It is a huge opportunity for you.  Your beliefs and language regarding African Americans are offensive to many in this league, country and world.  They have hurt and will continue to hurt many people.  I know you are a man of power and wealth and that you grew up in a different era.  Times have changed.  I want you to do something that will be extremely difficult for you at first but it will be a lot easier for you in the long run than my first choice which really isn't a choice and that is to sell your team effective immediately.  But I want you to do this for me and for this league that has given you a good part of your wealth and livelihood.    

First I want you to personally and sincerely apologize to every player on the team and everyone in your organization and ask for their forgiveness.  This may take the rest of your life.  It will be extremely difficult for you at first but after about the 10th time or so you are going to get what I'm getting at.  You are going to shed more unforced tears than you ever have in your life if you do this the right way.  But you know what?  They are going to forgive you.  And the burden your words and actions will begin to be lifted off your shoulders and also off of those you offended.  Some will forgive you right off the bat, others maybe a little later, some may take much longer but I want you to walk in each of their shoes.  The ones that don't forgive you right off the bat, walk a little further with them.  Hear their story."

Something to that effect.  I believe you would have a totally different result.  A true movement for race relations if you will.  In my opinion, Adam Silver chose to cut bait and marginalize, not to deal with the real issues which are education and forgiveness.  Now if DS still was running off at the mouth after AS delivered something like the above, then Option A is all that is left.  I believe DS would have chosen Option B after some careful thought and prayer.

I honestly believe DS is still who he is.  Now he can't even apologize to those he offended with his ban from the NBA.  Selling his team?  That doesn't effect him.  He still gets the money.  He just swapped the team for cash.  His balance sheet didn't change.  This "punishment" did nothing to change behavior.  Of him or anyone else for that matter.  Asking for forgiveness and receiving forgiveness?  That changes people.  That changes behavior.  

That's enough.  I did see on Highly Questionable recently (which btw is the greatest show ever!  It is a show on ESPN about the great love and respect between a father and his son and the great time they have together every day of their lives)  that one of questions debated was should Robert Kraft begin turning over daily operations to his son...because of all this.  Now while this isn't what I said would happen, it's clearly in the ballpark and it's just the first swing by the media and public opinion.  Again, I hope I am wrong but here it comes just like clockwork.    

db                            

dbrown4 wrote:Thank you, Ktronics1.  I agree with just about everything you say but most importantly the way you delivered it.  It is all about the delivery when you are talking about a volatile topic like racism.  Like abortion, there is no in between.

I agree about the educational sit down with the Commish.  That won't do anything for/with a true racist.  The intended rub was the real gruesome work involved on his end to gain full redemption from the commish and not have to sell his team.  After about the 5th or 6th person he would be apologizing to, he would begin to get the full hit of the exercise.  Some of those people would begin to come back on him and tell him of the real oppression and degrading that comes with that line of thought and speech.  Maybe one of their family members was killed by the Klan or something horrific racially related.  At that point he would begin to realize the full gravity and error of his ways because there would be thousands to go.  It would almost be a fate worse than death.  He would either give up from the weight of the gravity or get full redemption at the end by completing the task.  He would find out who he really is as a human.  But there is no way he wouldn't get the intended message.  

It was just meant to be a thought experiment as most of the zany ideas that pop in my head are but hopefully a creative way to help end racism or at least begin to end it.  Most importantly, I appreciate your thoughtful, well-crafted (again, no pun intended!) response.  You are a huge asset to this forum and I look forward to all your posts.

db      

dbrown4 wrote:I had another thought on this.  The equivalent of telling DS he is a racist today is almost the same as if someone from today was able to travel back in time to the days of slavery in this country and try to convince that generation of slave owners that slavery is a bad thing or is evil.  Probably not going to be very well received.

There is the benefit of hindsight though.  That's what we have over the last few hundred years.  

db