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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:53 am
I'm with you Cow. Somehow the two of us missed out when they passed the Brad Kool Aid around.
worcester- Posts : 11787
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by bobheckler Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:20 pm
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-report-card-how-did-jayson-tatum-kemba-walker-and-co-grade-out
Celtics Report Card: How did Jayson Tatum, Kemba Walker and Co. grade out?
Falling one step short of the NBA Finals (again) is a disappointing ending for the Celtics, but there were many positives to take out of the 2019-20 NBA season. Professor Chris Forsberg assesses the entire roster plus Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge in his Celtics Report Card.
BY CHRIS FORSBERG
INTRO
Even as the disappointment of Boston bowing in the Eastern Conference finals for the third time in four years lingers, it’s important to remember that the development of Boston’s two youngest stars has positioned this team for long-term contention. And that might have been the most promising aspect for the 2019-20 season.
Maybe that doesn’t ease frustrations now after the Celtics let a golden opportunity slip away. And there are more strides necessary for this team to really assert itself as the best team in a soon-to-be souped up East. But as we broke out our red pens to grade this season, it only accentuated the development of Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, who land at the head of the class in our season-ending Celtics report card.
Jayson Tatum
USA TODAY Sports photo
It’s fitting that 2020 was a leap year because that’s exactly what Tatum made it. The 22-year-old established himself as one of the best two-way wings in the league while earning All-Star and All-NBA nods. The jump he made in February before the league’s shutdown had LeBron James dubbing him an “absolute problem.” Tatum blossomed as a scorer, consistently improved his playmaking, and routinely impacted the defensive end.
Tatum’s next challenge: Assert himself as the best player on a championship-caliber team. As good as he was in this year’s playoffs — 25.7 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists per game — there’s still another level for him to climb while being able to carry his team on the biggest stages.
Grade: A-
Jaylen Brown
Getty Images
Brown's development was overshadowed at times by Tatum’s vault, but Brown improved his game in so many different areas and, by season’s end, cemented himself as a future All-Star. The numbers were excellent, including in the postseason where Brown averaged 21.8 points, 7.5 rebounds, and 2.3 assists per game. He showcased dramatically improved handle and vision.
But what really stood out is the way Brown embraced difficult defensive assignments, especially in the playoffs, while routinely taking on the challenges of defending All-Stars like Pascal Siakam and Bam Adebayo. Yes, Brown was still susceptible to lapses like losing a shooter, but his versatility -- especially defending those bigger 4s and 5s -- is huge for Boston moving forward.
Grade: B+
Kemba Walker
AP Photo
It’s tempting to elevate Walker’s grade based on the chemistry jolt alone. We’ll keep saying it: He was the perfect palate-cleanser after the Kyrie Irving Experiment. And we're convinced that Tatum and Brown don’t develop quite as quickly as they did this year if they don’t have a supportive All-Star alongside that embraced their progress.
Unfortunately, Walker’s knee issue clearly diminished his performance before and after the shutdown. Walker had too many games in the postseason where, by his own admittance, he was bad at both ends of the floor. Walker must find a way to ensure that knee isn’t a lingering issue into the future. Walker still averaged 20.4 points per game while shooting 38.1 percent beyond the arc in the regular season.
Grade: B-
Gordon Hayward
USA TODAY Sports photo
It’s easy to forget now, particularly given how poorly he played over the final games of the season after rushing back from an ankle injury, but there were stretches early in the year where Hayward played at an All-Star level.
Alas, he broke his hand in San Antonio in November, battled a foot issue that he wondered out loud if it was connected to his 2017 ankle fracture, and then suffered a Grade III ankle sprain in the first game of the playoffs. The best ability is availability and that’s simply been a challenge for Hayward during his time in green.
It’s clear the Celtics’ ceiling elevates whenever he’s at full health but he simply hasn’t been that when the team has needed him most, though he deserves credit for trying to tough it out in the Miami series.
Grade: C+
Marcus Smart
USA TODAY Sports photo
Even those Celtics fans who both love and trust Smart unconditionally couldn’t have been smitten with Smart putting up 11.6 shots per game in the playoffs, including a whopping 22 shots in Game 6 against Miami. Yes, he looked like Steph Curry at times but also finished at 33 percent beyond the arc for the postseason while hosting as many 3s per game as Walker.
That irrational confidence is part of the Smart package. But the Celtics are at their best when Smart is setting the defensive tone and showcasing his playmaking skills. He was first team All-Defense for a second consecutive year and deserves more consideration for Defensive Player of the Year.
Grade: B
Daniel Theis
AP Photo
Retained as a low-cost backup for a team with limited resources to address the center position in the aftermath of losing Al Horford and Aron Baynes, Theis asserted himself as an ideal complement to Boston’s core. He was happy to set screens, showcase new sealing talents, and finish dunks whenever defenses strayed.
Theis was really good for much of the playoffs but foul trouble hindered him and, unfortunately, the lasting image will be Bam Adebayo’s dominant stretch at the end of Game 6. Still, Theis’ production far exceeded what could have been reasonably expected coming into the season.
Grade: B+
Enes Kanter
Getty Images
Kanter, signed with Walker as part of what Danny Ainge called his “Plan A” offseason, embraced his role as a situational player who stayed ready and gave maximum effort whenever he got called upon. He was a vacuum on the glass and gave the Celtics occasional offensive jolts with his work around the basket.
For a team thin on size, he was the purest of bigs and Stevens did his best to mask Kanter’s defensive deficiencies. Boston was the third different Kanter team to make the conference finals in the past four years.
Grade: B
Romeo Langford
USA TODAY Sports photo
Boston’s top pick in the 2019 draft battled a slew of ailments during his first year as a pro. Thumb surgery after his lone college season left him playing catchup out of the gates, then he sprained his ankle a couple times, hurt his knee, and tore ligaments in his wrist right before the playoffs.
He toughed it out and got some chances in the postseason, only to suffer a groin injury 81 seconds into his first Eastern Conference finals appearance. The potential is there, we just need to see more of it. Alas, Langford could miss the start of next season recovering from his latest surgery.
Grade: Incomplete
Brad Wanamaker
USA TODAY Sports photo
The 30-year-old NBA sophomore turned out to be one of the most reliable options on Brad Stevens’ bench and got quality minutes straight through the playoffs. He was a steady ballhandler, thrived in transition, shot 44.4 percent beyond the arc in the playoffs, and consistently made his free throws. He wasn’t very flashy but he was steady.
Grade: B
Semi Ojeleye
USA TODAY Sports photo
The Celtics could lean on Ojeleye for sturdy defense and injuries routinely opened doors for regular-season playing time. Alas, his 3-point shot was streaky and failed him in the playoffs (21.7 percent). His offensive limitations made it tough for him to carve out time when it mattered most and rookie Grant Williams slowly started getting the call over him. At 25, Ojeleye just hasn’t been able to make the sort of offensive advancements that would allow him to be a more consistent presence, especially in the postseason.
Grade: D+
Grant Williams
AP Photo
His 3-point shot defied him for much of his rookie season, but Williams clearly learned from shacking with Walker during quarantine because he shot a blistering 58.8 percent (10 for 17 overall) beyond the arc in the postseason. Combine that with high-IQ play and solid defense, Williams saw small doses of minutes as a smallball center throughout the postseason.
What’s more, some of Boston’s best stretches came with Williams at the 5 and he was the only one of the Celtics’ rookies to truly make a consistent impact this season.
Grade: B-
Robert Williams
USA TODAY Sports photo
A hip injury sidelined Williams for three months during the regular season and, right as he was ramping back up, the league shut down. He was never quite able to earn Stevens’ trust and that led to inconsistent postseason playing time despite his intriguing abilities.
Timelord still had some very encouraging stretches in the postseason, even if it’s clear there’s still strides to be made, especially with defensive consistency. His athleticism is unmatched on this team and it might be time for Stevens to simply bite the bullet and figure out just how much he can lean on Williams moving forward.
Grade: C
Carsen Edwards
Getty Images
A 3-point barrage during a preseason game in Cleveland had Celtics fans buzzing about the second-round pick’s potential as a microwave off the Boston bench but he wasn’t able to carry any of that momentum into real games. Edwards shot just 31.6 percent beyond the arc and played only 351 total minutes in 37 regular-season appearances. He made only one trash-time appearance in the playoffs.
More concerning is that he shot just 28 percent beyond the arc in the G-League while logging 34.2 minutes per game in nine appearances. The Celtics remain hopeful he can find his shot at the pro level.
Grade: D
Javonte Green
USA TODAY Sports photo
One of the best stories of the season, the 26-year-old rookie, who spent recent years toiling overseas, managed to fight his way onto Boston’s roster after showcasing his athleticism at summer league. The springy wing played a total of 468 minutes in 48 regular-season appearances while often showcasing his freakish hops. He needs to develop his 3-point shot and make defense his priority to stick around in the NBA, and a roster crunch could make it difficult for Boston to keep him next season.
Grade: C
Tacko Fall
USA TODAY Sports photo
No 2-way player in the league got as much attention as the 7-foot-5 Fall, who became an immediate fan favorite with a solid showing at summer league. Fall is still a long way away from being a rotation-caliber big in the NBA but his skills improved throughout the year and nothing made TD Garden roar more than the sight of Fall running to the scorer’s table. His ability to impact games with his size is undeniable and Fall earned the trust of his teammates with his work ethic and desire to improve.
Grade: C+
Vincent Poirier
USA TODAY Sports photo
When the Celtics plucked Poirier out of France last summer, it felt like they had high hopes he could compete immediately for frontcourt minutes. He never quite made the advancements necessary to earn consistent time. Poirier was good for chemistry and bonded with Boston’s diverse group of bigs but he played only 130 minutes in 22 appearances.
Grade: D
Tremont Waters
USA TODAY Sports photo
Waters wasn’t even Boston’s most popular 2-way player (no one could compete with Fall) but he was a star in Maine while finishing third in G-League MVP voting. He also earned a nod as the G-League's Rookie of the Year while averaging 18 points, 7.3 assists, 3.2 rebounds, and 1.9 steals in 36 games with the Red Claws. Waters has to improve his shooting and his height poses defensive challenges but his playmaking abilities are undeniable.
Grade: C+
Brad Stevens
USA TODAY Sports photo
Stevens is under the microscope after the Celtics fizzled in the Eastern Conference finals for the third time in four years. Boston’s perpetual injury woes and an unreliable bench complicated matters for Stevens throughout the year.
We can quibble with his timeout usage or how he deployed his bigs late in the postseason but, ultimately, his biggest failure was being unable to get his team to play with better composure when it mattered most, particularly in the East finals where Boston routinely wilted in crunch time.
Grade: C+
Danny Ainge
Getty Images
After watching Irving and Horford walk away, the Celtics were in a bit of an awkward spot last summer, but the additions of Walker and Kanter not only kept Boston in position to compete but changed the entire vibe around the organization after a trying 2018-19 campaign.
Ainge and his staff did a solid job cobbling together a low-budget group of big men, but Ainge might have left the bench a bit too thin on talent and too heavy on youth. It’s hard to begrudge Ainge for his lack of trade deadline activity — he wasn’t going to splurge on a Davis Bertans to watch him walk away in free agency — and it’s unlikely that landing a Marvin Williams type on the buyout market would have swung the East finals.
That said, Andre Iguodala’s ability to give Miami a Game 6 jolt only accentuated Boston’s lack of a similar type of playoff-proven reserve. Better health for Hayward at the finish line might have masked some of Boston’s depth issues.
Grade: B
bob
MY NOTE: I'd give Edwards an 'F'. His calling card, the reason why he got his multi-year contract despite being a 2nd rounder, is because of his 3pt shooting and his 3pt shooting sucked all year. Poirier deserves his 'D' because he couldn't crack the lineup but, to be honest, I never saw any disqualifying aspects of his game in the few minutes he was in. Why he couldn't replace Kanter I have no idea. He certainly couldn't be a worse pnr defender, nobody could be that. Nevertheless, he didn't crack the lineup despite being a highly touted free agent signing from overseas so he can't get a very high grade. Consider that Walker gets a B-, Hayward gets a C+ and they're our two max contract players. We went as far as we did despite them, not because of them. What this shows me, along with the impact of Iggy, is that playoff experience is very different from regular season experience and neither of these two guys had much playoff experience. The two J's have far more experience than either Walker and Hayward, and played like it. Walker and Hayward played like deer caught in headlights. Will they play better next year, now that they have this experience? Maybe. That's all I'm going to say, "maybe", because Walker will be going on 31, with a creaky knee no less, and Hayward will be 31 as well. If Brad deserves a low grade I think it's because he takes his low-key demeanor a bit too far. A little more fire, Brad. Don't be afraid to light'em up a bit more. As far as Danny goes his biggest failure was not bringing in firepower off the bench and/or veteran playoff experience for when we need it. Brad had to go with a very short bench because he had nobody that far down he could call upon. Hayward and Smart were 'our bench'. Kanter and RWill were shuttled in and out based upon matchups I don't understand and GWill, while I thought he did exceptionally well vs Bam and especially considering he's a rookie, only played a total of 170 minutes in 17 playoff games. GWill shot 57.7% in those playoff games, an outstanding 58.8% from 3 (astonishingly, even, given he missed his first 25 3pt fgas) but you can't roll the dice on a role player like that unless he is a scoring machine. Even then (see Edwards, Carsen)...
.
Celtics Report Card: How did Jayson Tatum, Kemba Walker and Co. grade out?
Falling one step short of the NBA Finals (again) is a disappointing ending for the Celtics, but there were many positives to take out of the 2019-20 NBA season. Professor Chris Forsberg assesses the entire roster plus Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge in his Celtics Report Card.
BY CHRIS FORSBERG
INTRO
Even as the disappointment of Boston bowing in the Eastern Conference finals for the third time in four years lingers, it’s important to remember that the development of Boston’s two youngest stars has positioned this team for long-term contention. And that might have been the most promising aspect for the 2019-20 season.
Maybe that doesn’t ease frustrations now after the Celtics let a golden opportunity slip away. And there are more strides necessary for this team to really assert itself as the best team in a soon-to-be souped up East. But as we broke out our red pens to grade this season, it only accentuated the development of Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, who land at the head of the class in our season-ending Celtics report card.
Jayson Tatum
USA TODAY Sports photo
It’s fitting that 2020 was a leap year because that’s exactly what Tatum made it. The 22-year-old established himself as one of the best two-way wings in the league while earning All-Star and All-NBA nods. The jump he made in February before the league’s shutdown had LeBron James dubbing him an “absolute problem.” Tatum blossomed as a scorer, consistently improved his playmaking, and routinely impacted the defensive end.
Tatum’s next challenge: Assert himself as the best player on a championship-caliber team. As good as he was in this year’s playoffs — 25.7 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists per game — there’s still another level for him to climb while being able to carry his team on the biggest stages.
Grade: A-
Jaylen Brown
Getty Images
Brown's development was overshadowed at times by Tatum’s vault, but Brown improved his game in so many different areas and, by season’s end, cemented himself as a future All-Star. The numbers were excellent, including in the postseason where Brown averaged 21.8 points, 7.5 rebounds, and 2.3 assists per game. He showcased dramatically improved handle and vision.
But what really stood out is the way Brown embraced difficult defensive assignments, especially in the playoffs, while routinely taking on the challenges of defending All-Stars like Pascal Siakam and Bam Adebayo. Yes, Brown was still susceptible to lapses like losing a shooter, but his versatility -- especially defending those bigger 4s and 5s -- is huge for Boston moving forward.
Grade: B+
Kemba Walker
AP Photo
It’s tempting to elevate Walker’s grade based on the chemistry jolt alone. We’ll keep saying it: He was the perfect palate-cleanser after the Kyrie Irving Experiment. And we're convinced that Tatum and Brown don’t develop quite as quickly as they did this year if they don’t have a supportive All-Star alongside that embraced their progress.
Unfortunately, Walker’s knee issue clearly diminished his performance before and after the shutdown. Walker had too many games in the postseason where, by his own admittance, he was bad at both ends of the floor. Walker must find a way to ensure that knee isn’t a lingering issue into the future. Walker still averaged 20.4 points per game while shooting 38.1 percent beyond the arc in the regular season.
Grade: B-
Gordon Hayward
USA TODAY Sports photo
It’s easy to forget now, particularly given how poorly he played over the final games of the season after rushing back from an ankle injury, but there were stretches early in the year where Hayward played at an All-Star level.
Alas, he broke his hand in San Antonio in November, battled a foot issue that he wondered out loud if it was connected to his 2017 ankle fracture, and then suffered a Grade III ankle sprain in the first game of the playoffs. The best ability is availability and that’s simply been a challenge for Hayward during his time in green.
It’s clear the Celtics’ ceiling elevates whenever he’s at full health but he simply hasn’t been that when the team has needed him most, though he deserves credit for trying to tough it out in the Miami series.
Grade: C+
Marcus Smart
USA TODAY Sports photo
Even those Celtics fans who both love and trust Smart unconditionally couldn’t have been smitten with Smart putting up 11.6 shots per game in the playoffs, including a whopping 22 shots in Game 6 against Miami. Yes, he looked like Steph Curry at times but also finished at 33 percent beyond the arc for the postseason while hosting as many 3s per game as Walker.
That irrational confidence is part of the Smart package. But the Celtics are at their best when Smart is setting the defensive tone and showcasing his playmaking skills. He was first team All-Defense for a second consecutive year and deserves more consideration for Defensive Player of the Year.
Grade: B
Daniel Theis
AP Photo
Retained as a low-cost backup for a team with limited resources to address the center position in the aftermath of losing Al Horford and Aron Baynes, Theis asserted himself as an ideal complement to Boston’s core. He was happy to set screens, showcase new sealing talents, and finish dunks whenever defenses strayed.
Theis was really good for much of the playoffs but foul trouble hindered him and, unfortunately, the lasting image will be Bam Adebayo’s dominant stretch at the end of Game 6. Still, Theis’ production far exceeded what could have been reasonably expected coming into the season.
Grade: B+
Enes Kanter
Getty Images
Kanter, signed with Walker as part of what Danny Ainge called his “Plan A” offseason, embraced his role as a situational player who stayed ready and gave maximum effort whenever he got called upon. He was a vacuum on the glass and gave the Celtics occasional offensive jolts with his work around the basket.
For a team thin on size, he was the purest of bigs and Stevens did his best to mask Kanter’s defensive deficiencies. Boston was the third different Kanter team to make the conference finals in the past four years.
Grade: B
Romeo Langford
USA TODAY Sports photo
Boston’s top pick in the 2019 draft battled a slew of ailments during his first year as a pro. Thumb surgery after his lone college season left him playing catchup out of the gates, then he sprained his ankle a couple times, hurt his knee, and tore ligaments in his wrist right before the playoffs.
He toughed it out and got some chances in the postseason, only to suffer a groin injury 81 seconds into his first Eastern Conference finals appearance. The potential is there, we just need to see more of it. Alas, Langford could miss the start of next season recovering from his latest surgery.
Grade: Incomplete
Brad Wanamaker
USA TODAY Sports photo
The 30-year-old NBA sophomore turned out to be one of the most reliable options on Brad Stevens’ bench and got quality minutes straight through the playoffs. He was a steady ballhandler, thrived in transition, shot 44.4 percent beyond the arc in the playoffs, and consistently made his free throws. He wasn’t very flashy but he was steady.
Grade: B
Semi Ojeleye
USA TODAY Sports photo
The Celtics could lean on Ojeleye for sturdy defense and injuries routinely opened doors for regular-season playing time. Alas, his 3-point shot was streaky and failed him in the playoffs (21.7 percent). His offensive limitations made it tough for him to carve out time when it mattered most and rookie Grant Williams slowly started getting the call over him. At 25, Ojeleye just hasn’t been able to make the sort of offensive advancements that would allow him to be a more consistent presence, especially in the postseason.
Grade: D+
Grant Williams
AP Photo
His 3-point shot defied him for much of his rookie season, but Williams clearly learned from shacking with Walker during quarantine because he shot a blistering 58.8 percent (10 for 17 overall) beyond the arc in the postseason. Combine that with high-IQ play and solid defense, Williams saw small doses of minutes as a smallball center throughout the postseason.
What’s more, some of Boston’s best stretches came with Williams at the 5 and he was the only one of the Celtics’ rookies to truly make a consistent impact this season.
Grade: B-
Robert Williams
USA TODAY Sports photo
A hip injury sidelined Williams for three months during the regular season and, right as he was ramping back up, the league shut down. He was never quite able to earn Stevens’ trust and that led to inconsistent postseason playing time despite his intriguing abilities.
Timelord still had some very encouraging stretches in the postseason, even if it’s clear there’s still strides to be made, especially with defensive consistency. His athleticism is unmatched on this team and it might be time for Stevens to simply bite the bullet and figure out just how much he can lean on Williams moving forward.
Grade: C
Carsen Edwards
Getty Images
A 3-point barrage during a preseason game in Cleveland had Celtics fans buzzing about the second-round pick’s potential as a microwave off the Boston bench but he wasn’t able to carry any of that momentum into real games. Edwards shot just 31.6 percent beyond the arc and played only 351 total minutes in 37 regular-season appearances. He made only one trash-time appearance in the playoffs.
More concerning is that he shot just 28 percent beyond the arc in the G-League while logging 34.2 minutes per game in nine appearances. The Celtics remain hopeful he can find his shot at the pro level.
Grade: D
Javonte Green
USA TODAY Sports photo
One of the best stories of the season, the 26-year-old rookie, who spent recent years toiling overseas, managed to fight his way onto Boston’s roster after showcasing his athleticism at summer league. The springy wing played a total of 468 minutes in 48 regular-season appearances while often showcasing his freakish hops. He needs to develop his 3-point shot and make defense his priority to stick around in the NBA, and a roster crunch could make it difficult for Boston to keep him next season.
Grade: C
Tacko Fall
USA TODAY Sports photo
No 2-way player in the league got as much attention as the 7-foot-5 Fall, who became an immediate fan favorite with a solid showing at summer league. Fall is still a long way away from being a rotation-caliber big in the NBA but his skills improved throughout the year and nothing made TD Garden roar more than the sight of Fall running to the scorer’s table. His ability to impact games with his size is undeniable and Fall earned the trust of his teammates with his work ethic and desire to improve.
Grade: C+
Vincent Poirier
USA TODAY Sports photo
When the Celtics plucked Poirier out of France last summer, it felt like they had high hopes he could compete immediately for frontcourt minutes. He never quite made the advancements necessary to earn consistent time. Poirier was good for chemistry and bonded with Boston’s diverse group of bigs but he played only 130 minutes in 22 appearances.
Grade: D
Tremont Waters
USA TODAY Sports photo
Waters wasn’t even Boston’s most popular 2-way player (no one could compete with Fall) but he was a star in Maine while finishing third in G-League MVP voting. He also earned a nod as the G-League's Rookie of the Year while averaging 18 points, 7.3 assists, 3.2 rebounds, and 1.9 steals in 36 games with the Red Claws. Waters has to improve his shooting and his height poses defensive challenges but his playmaking abilities are undeniable.
Grade: C+
Brad Stevens
USA TODAY Sports photo
Stevens is under the microscope after the Celtics fizzled in the Eastern Conference finals for the third time in four years. Boston’s perpetual injury woes and an unreliable bench complicated matters for Stevens throughout the year.
We can quibble with his timeout usage or how he deployed his bigs late in the postseason but, ultimately, his biggest failure was being unable to get his team to play with better composure when it mattered most, particularly in the East finals where Boston routinely wilted in crunch time.
Grade: C+
Danny Ainge
Getty Images
After watching Irving and Horford walk away, the Celtics were in a bit of an awkward spot last summer, but the additions of Walker and Kanter not only kept Boston in position to compete but changed the entire vibe around the organization after a trying 2018-19 campaign.
Ainge and his staff did a solid job cobbling together a low-budget group of big men, but Ainge might have left the bench a bit too thin on talent and too heavy on youth. It’s hard to begrudge Ainge for his lack of trade deadline activity — he wasn’t going to splurge on a Davis Bertans to watch him walk away in free agency — and it’s unlikely that landing a Marvin Williams type on the buyout market would have swung the East finals.
That said, Andre Iguodala’s ability to give Miami a Game 6 jolt only accentuated Boston’s lack of a similar type of playoff-proven reserve. Better health for Hayward at the finish line might have masked some of Boston’s depth issues.
Grade: B
bob
MY NOTE: I'd give Edwards an 'F'. His calling card, the reason why he got his multi-year contract despite being a 2nd rounder, is because of his 3pt shooting and his 3pt shooting sucked all year. Poirier deserves his 'D' because he couldn't crack the lineup but, to be honest, I never saw any disqualifying aspects of his game in the few minutes he was in. Why he couldn't replace Kanter I have no idea. He certainly couldn't be a worse pnr defender, nobody could be that. Nevertheless, he didn't crack the lineup despite being a highly touted free agent signing from overseas so he can't get a very high grade. Consider that Walker gets a B-, Hayward gets a C+ and they're our two max contract players. We went as far as we did despite them, not because of them. What this shows me, along with the impact of Iggy, is that playoff experience is very different from regular season experience and neither of these two guys had much playoff experience. The two J's have far more experience than either Walker and Hayward, and played like it. Walker and Hayward played like deer caught in headlights. Will they play better next year, now that they have this experience? Maybe. That's all I'm going to say, "maybe", because Walker will be going on 31, with a creaky knee no less, and Hayward will be 31 as well. If Brad deserves a low grade I think it's because he takes his low-key demeanor a bit too far. A little more fire, Brad. Don't be afraid to light'em up a bit more. As far as Danny goes his biggest failure was not bringing in firepower off the bench and/or veteran playoff experience for when we need it. Brad had to go with a very short bench because he had nobody that far down he could call upon. Hayward and Smart were 'our bench'. Kanter and RWill were shuttled in and out based upon matchups I don't understand and GWill, while I thought he did exceptionally well vs Bam and especially considering he's a rookie, only played a total of 170 minutes in 17 playoff games. GWill shot 57.7% in those playoff games, an outstanding 58.8% from 3 (astonishingly, even, given he missed his first 25 3pt fgas) but you can't roll the dice on a role player like that unless he is a scoring machine. Even then (see Edwards, Carsen)...
.
Last edited by bobheckler on Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
bobheckler- Posts : 62619
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: The Autopsy Report
by dboss Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:25 pm
I do think that Stevens still has time to become an even better coach. I just do not know if this team has outgrown him. He deserves a chance still. He did not have a complete team to coach this year so in all fairness we should acknowledge that.
As anyone can see I still have mixed feelings about him but I cannot name another coach that I would like to see.
As anyone can see I still have mixed feelings about him but I cannot name another coach that I would like to see.
dboss- Posts : 19219
Join date : 2009-11-01
Re: The Autopsy Report
by Shamrock1000 Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:45 pm
bobheckler wrote:
MY NOTE: I'd give Edwards an 'F'. His calling card, the reason why he got his multi-year contract despite being a 2nd rounder, is because of his 3pt shooting and his 3pt shooting sucked all year. Poirier deserves his 'D' because he couldn't crack the lineup but, to be honest, I never saw any disqualifying aspects of his game in the few minutes he was in. Why he couldn't replace Kanter I have no idea. He certainly couldn't be a worse pnr defender, nobody could be that. Nevertheless, he didn't crack the lineup despite being a highly touted free agent signing from overseas so he can't get a very high grade. Consider that Walker gets a B-, Hayward gets a C+ and they're our two max contract players. We went as far as we did despite them, not because of them. What this shows me, along with the impact of Iggy, is that playoff experience is very different from regular season experience and neither of these two guys had much playoff experience. The two J's have far more experience than either Walker and Hayward, and played like it. Walker and Hayward played like deer caught in headlights. Will they play better next year, now that they have this experience? Maybe. That's all I'm going to say, "maybe", because Walker will be going on 31, with a creaky knee no less, and Hayward will be 31 as well. If Brad deserves a low grade I think it's because he takes his low-key demeanor a bit too far. A little more fire, Brad. Don't be afraid to light'em up a bit more. As far as Danny goes his biggest failure was not bringing in firepower off the bench and/or veteran playoff experience for when we need it. Brad had to go with a very short bench because he had nobody that far down he could call upon. Hayward and Smart were 'our bench'. Kanter and RWill were shuttled in and out based upon matchups I don't understand and GWill, while I thought he did exceptionally well vs Bam and especially considering he's a rookie, only played a total of 170 minutes in 17 playoff games. GWill shot 57.7% in those playoff games, an outstanding 58.8% from 3 (astonishingly, even, given he missed his first 25 3pt fgas) but you can't roll the dice on a role player like that unless he is a scoring machine. Even then (see Edwards, Carsen)...
.
That's a really interesting take on Kemba and Gordon's playoff performance. I hadn't thought of it that way, but as I read it, it makes sense. I can understand why Danny was okay going ahead with a thin bench. I am sure he didn't expect this team to contend, and probably wanted to get minutes for some of the young'uns to see who could stick. However, we were pretty competitive from the get-go, and that development never happened. Thus, I wish he had signed someone like Crawford for the bubble. Again, he probably didn't see Milwaukee's collapse coming, and still saw this year as an intermediate year. Regarding Brad, he is obviously an excellent coach overall. My only criticism is that he could improve on situational basketball - maybe what works over the course of a season is not the best approach at the end of a close game. I agree that simply providing more leadership (fire?) in those situations might do the trick. As you have pointed out many times, a battle-tested veteran would have really helped. Next year will be interesting. My feeling is that this group struggles with high expectations. Hope I'm wrong...
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by kdp59 Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:52 pm
Bob that article deserves its own thread, IMO.
man we could have so many different grades from members here.
I'll go
Tatum-A
Brown- B
Kemba- B
Hayward-C (because of the injuries) B if we could ever stay healthy
Smart- A
Theis- B (outplayed his contract and was over matched physically most nights)
Kanter- C ( all right for what he is)
Romeo- D for now ( needs to step up next season)
Wanamaker- Solid C ( not sure he's a rotational player on a championship team, but not the worst 10th man)
Semi-D (Gone)
Grant- C ( Late first rounder who made the rotation, either we were not that good or he was better than his draft slot)
Robert- C ( A on talent, not sure he'll ever get there though)
Edwards-D
Green- C for making the team, but a D league player non the less
Porier- F- needs to head back overseas NOT an NBA player
I like Waters and hope he makes the team next year, Tacko would be nice to have but I think someone else signs him to an NBA contract.
Stevens- B
Ainge- B
I don't grade with plus or minus...LOL
man we could have so many different grades from members here.
I'll go
Tatum-A
Brown- B
Kemba- B
Hayward-C (because of the injuries) B if we could ever stay healthy
Smart- A
Theis- B (outplayed his contract and was over matched physically most nights)
Kanter- C ( all right for what he is)
Romeo- D for now ( needs to step up next season)
Wanamaker- Solid C ( not sure he's a rotational player on a championship team, but not the worst 10th man)
Semi-D (Gone)
Grant- C ( Late first rounder who made the rotation, either we were not that good or he was better than his draft slot)
Robert- C ( A on talent, not sure he'll ever get there though)
Edwards-D
Green- C for making the team, but a D league player non the less
Porier- F- needs to head back overseas NOT an NBA player
I like Waters and hope he makes the team next year, Tacko would be nice to have but I think someone else signs him to an NBA contract.
Stevens- B
Ainge- B
I don't grade with plus or minus...LOL
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:54 pm
We shouldgive these grades compared to the rest of the NBA.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by kdp59 Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:09 pm
worcester wrote:We shouldgive these grades compared to the rest of the NBA.
I was trying to...LOL.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by bobheckler Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:13 pm
worcester wrote:We shouldgive these grades compared to the rest of the NBA.
Step on up and take a couple of swings at the ball, big boy.
bob
.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:26 pm
Tatum and Brown, A-
SMART, B+
Theis - C
Kemba. C+, C- playoffs
Kanter, D
Hayward, C+ regular season, C- playoffs
Wanny, C+
GWill, D+...C- playoffs
Rwill, C- ( he could become a B imho)
Poirier, F...thanks to Brad sitting him
Carsen, F...thanks to Brad playing him
Romeo, D+...thanks to injuries ( he may become a D- when healthy and experienced)
Tacko, F
SMART, B+
Theis - C
Kemba. C+, C- playoffs
Kanter, D
Hayward, C+ regular season, C- playoffs
Wanny, C+
GWill, D+...C- playoffs
Rwill, C- ( he could become a B imho)
Poirier, F...thanks to Brad sitting him
Carsen, F...thanks to Brad playing him
Romeo, D+...thanks to injuries ( he may become a D- when healthy and experienced)
Tacko, F
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by Shamrock1000 Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:30 pm
I'm grading vs expectations, with a C meeting expectations:
Tatum A-
Brown A
Theis A+
Kemba B
Kanter C-
Hayward C-
Wannamaker B+
Gwill C
Rwill B
Poirier C-
Carsen C-
Ojele D
Green B
Romeo incomplete
Tacko incomplete
Tatum A-
Brown A
Theis A+
Kemba B
Kanter C-
Hayward C-
Wannamaker B+
Gwill C
Rwill B
Poirier C-
Carsen C-
Ojele D
Green B
Romeo incomplete
Tacko incomplete
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:25 pm
I like that Rock, grading vs expectations. Yes I would give Daniel an A+ for exceeding expectations. I like him a lot, but as an NBA center he is still a C.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by Ktron Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:30 pm
dboss wrote:Shamrock1000 wrote:Couple of more thoughts. A lot of posters have been critical of Brad and players taking too many 3's at the end of tight games. Others have defended Brad arguing that the players play the game. As always, nothing is ever simple. I have a feeling that the players were actually trying to do what they thought is the right thing rather than trying to play iso/hero-ball. Hear me out... The past few years, all anyone ever hears is how the 3 point shot it more efficient. If I had a nickel for every article I read praising Tatum for how he reduced long 2s to take 3s, I would be a rich man. And, everyone is right. Three point shots are more efficient. Mathematical fact. Everyone here knows the arguments. Three point shots are more efficient in the long run. Over the course of the season, they are more efficient for sure. Over the course of a game too. Even over the course of most quarters. However, at the end of games, this truism is no longer exactly true.
Everyone here knows that shooting 33% on 3s is the same as shooting 50% on 2s, and everyone know shooting 50% on 2s is difficult while shooting 33% on 3s is reasonable. Over the course of a season, game, or even quarter, shooting 3s is more efficient. Fact. The problem is, this logic breaks down at the end of close games. Think about it this way - if a team is shooting 33% on 3s, that means that for one particular possession, there is a 67% chance you come away with no points at all. Over many shots, you end up making out if you shoot 3s (cause they are worth one more point than 2s), and thus the 3 is more efficient overall. But for one possession - choosing to shoot the 3 is actually the wrong choice. At the end of close games, especially when you are ahead, the last thing you want to happen is that you come away from a possession with no points. Thus, even a long 2 with only a 41% chance of going in is better than a 3 with a 40% chance of going in. Fact.
I honestly believe this team was not disobeying Brad, or trying to play hero ball - I believe they became overly conscious of trying to take the more efficient shot with the hope of winning the game. I really hope that the problem is that Brad didn't do a good job of explaining what I explained above. If not, then we have a bigger problem in that Brad himself doesn't really understand the mathematical basis of the analytics he so dearly loves....
Rock this is an excellent point.
There is no doubt that Brad has a penchant for the 3 point shot. In interviews after games where the 3 pointer did not contribute to a win, he pretty much discounted issues associated with when and when not to shoot them. He discounted players missing. I think that he primarily believes that an open 3 point shot is a good shot. He however did mention a bad 3 point shot hosted by Smart in one of these game but he did not specifically mention his name. I really like that about Brad. He will not put a player on blast.
But let the record show that MS threw up 13 (3) points shots in a must win game 6. He even had the green light to attempt two heat check 3's after a timeout simply because he had knocked down two in a row before the time out. These are the type of 3 point shots that are flat out stupid. This is where coaching comes in. You have to curb your players bad tendencies. There is only one way to do that. You discuss it with them. You remind them again if it persists. Then you have to sit them on the bench. You take this approach with your best and your worst players and they will respect you more. Any other players will quickly understand that repeatedly crossing the line has consequence. If you do whatever knowing the worst reaction is some lame sarcastic comment from the coach then by all means keep jacking those mfers up.
If you are like most coaches and you embrace the sheer magnitude of scoring 3 point baskets, there has to also be limitations that help a team make decisions on when to take them and when not to take the. Penalties should be clear and enforced.
In a perfect word dboss. You put some of these players on the bench too many times and YOUR ass is gone! There are only a few coaches that can get away with that. However, I do believe that at the present time Brad, is one of them.
You cant give the green light to Smart then put the brakes on Because you think he's going to start missing. Discuss what? Remind what? No. What Brad should do is just run more plays for Brown.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by cowens/oldschool Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:56 pm
I don’t know how anyone can give Jaylen a B+, anything less than an A or A- is complete utter bullshit....
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by kdp59 Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:02 am
cowens/oldschool wrote:I don’t know how anyone can give Jaylen a B+, anything less than an A or A- is complete utter bullshit....
the only guys I gave an "A" too made either and all-star or all-defense team.
Brown will likely make the "A" grade for me next season.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by dboss Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:15 pm
Bob
and I thought the autopsy report was dead. but "It's Alive!"
I was thinking about our 2017 EC playoff run that we lost in 7 games to Cleveland. The final score was 87-79.
At what point will Brad Stevens take command and control?
How many 3 point shots and misses should a coach allow before telling a player to stop taking 3 point shots. I mention this because as we recall Terry Rozier was coming off of a spectacular 28 point (6-10 from deep) game 6 performance. That turned into a 4 point (0-10) outing in the most important game that Boston has played in since making it to the finals in 2009.
At what point do you pull a guy aside and simply state, I need for you to stop taking those 3 pointers.
Stevens was a bad command and control coach because he allowed a player to go 0-10 from deep.
Fast forward to the disappointing heat series and we witnessed Marcus Smart put up 13 3 pointers while going 4-13 in a MUST WIN game 6. Once again coach Stevens did not reel in Marcus. When a player shows a lack of discipline it is the responsibility of the coach to curb the player's shot selection. Brad Stevens has turned his team into a collection of 3 point junkies in search of their next fix. I am putting a spotlight on this because Marcus Smart averaged 7.8 three point attempts against the Heat and he shot 27.1%. This was one of the key reasons why we lost.
As a coach, Brad Stevens did not learn from the game 7 meltdown against the Cavs.
This is an example of why I continue to have reasonable doubt as to the viability of coach Stevens leading this team to Banner #18.
and I thought the autopsy report was dead. but "It's Alive!"
I was thinking about our 2017 EC playoff run that we lost in 7 games to Cleveland. The final score was 87-79.
At what point will Brad Stevens take command and control?
How many 3 point shots and misses should a coach allow before telling a player to stop taking 3 point shots. I mention this because as we recall Terry Rozier was coming off of a spectacular 28 point (6-10 from deep) game 6 performance. That turned into a 4 point (0-10) outing in the most important game that Boston has played in since making it to the finals in 2009.
At what point do you pull a guy aside and simply state, I need for you to stop taking those 3 pointers.
Stevens was a bad command and control coach because he allowed a player to go 0-10 from deep.
Fast forward to the disappointing heat series and we witnessed Marcus Smart put up 13 3 pointers while going 4-13 in a MUST WIN game 6. Once again coach Stevens did not reel in Marcus. When a player shows a lack of discipline it is the responsibility of the coach to curb the player's shot selection. Brad Stevens has turned his team into a collection of 3 point junkies in search of their next fix. I am putting a spotlight on this because Marcus Smart averaged 7.8 three point attempts against the Heat and he shot 27.1%. This was one of the key reasons why we lost.
As a coach, Brad Stevens did not learn from the game 7 meltdown against the Cavs.
This is an example of why I continue to have reasonable doubt as to the viability of coach Stevens leading this team to Banner #18.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:31 pm
100% agree dboss. 27.1% is reflective of poor decision making by both Brad and Marcus.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by bobheckler Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:46 pm
Taylor Snow
@taylorcsnow
·
Oct 12
There was only one player in the 2020 NBA Playoffs who averaged at least 25 points, 10 rebounds, five assists, one steal, and one block per game.
And that player was Jayson Tatum.
Bob
.
@taylorcsnow
·
Oct 12
There was only one player in the 2020 NBA Playoffs who averaged at least 25 points, 10 rebounds, five assists, one steal, and one block per game.
And that player was Jayson Tatum.
Bob
.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by dbrown4 Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:25 pm
I can't disagree with you, dboss. I hate to go back to the 80's but Bill Fitch and KC Jones didn't get a 7-year ramp up period just to firmly encamp themselves in the ECF and go no further.
Now of course we had Larry Bird, DJ, Parish, McHale, Danny, etc. but these 80's coaching tenures were very short yet very, very productive.
Now, Doc was given 9 years and won it in his 4th season. And should have won 2 championships. And that's all Danny remembers. Danny is loyal.
So Brad more than likely ain't going anywhere over the next two years at least. But Danny has to put the final pieces of the puzzle in place this off season. And if Brad is going to be around for 3-4 championships, the last moves have to be made now.
db
P.S. Heard today Magic pulled a Pat Riley promising back-to-backs. Probably not a bad time to say that. Don't see any team ready right now anywhere close to stopping them.
Now of course we had Larry Bird, DJ, Parish, McHale, Danny, etc. but these 80's coaching tenures were very short yet very, very productive.
Now, Doc was given 9 years and won it in his 4th season. And should have won 2 championships. And that's all Danny remembers. Danny is loyal.
So Brad more than likely ain't going anywhere over the next two years at least. But Danny has to put the final pieces of the puzzle in place this off season. And if Brad is going to be around for 3-4 championships, the last moves have to be made now.
db
P.S. Heard today Magic pulled a Pat Riley promising back-to-backs. Probably not a bad time to say that. Don't see any team ready right now anywhere close to stopping them.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:23 pm
LA was one bad heel bruise to AD from being stopped.
Rondo has a $4.5 M player option next year with A. He deserves more. I'd like to see him sign with the Celtics for about $6M and be playoff Rondo for us came April, May, and June. He's be a backup point guard/playmaker with solid experience.
AND if he doesn't get along with Brad because Brad is being an inadequate coach, Danny could fire Brad and let Rondo run the team as a player/coach, Bill Russell style, until Rajon retires.
Rondo has a $4.5 M player option next year with A. He deserves more. I'd like to see him sign with the Celtics for about $6M and be playoff Rondo for us came April, May, and June. He's be a backup point guard/playmaker with solid experience.
AND if he doesn't get along with Brad because Brad is being an inadequate coach, Danny could fire Brad and let Rondo run the team as a player/coach, Bill Russell style, until Rajon retires.
Last edited by worcester on Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by dboss Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:25 pm
dbrown4 wrote:I can't disagree with you, dboss. I hate to go back to the 80's but Bill Fitch and KC Jones didn't get a 7-year ramp up period just to firmly encamp themselves in the ECF and go no further.
Now of course we had Larry Bird, DJ, Parish, McHale, Danny, etc. but these 80's coaching tenures were very short yet very, very productive.
Now, Doc was given 9 years and won it in his 4th season. And should have won 2 championships. And that's all Danny remembers. Danny is loyal.
So Brad more than likely ain't going anywhere over the next two years at least. But Danny has to put the final pieces of the puzzle in place this off season. And if Brad is going to be around for 3-4 championships, the last moves have to be made now.
db
P.S. Heard today Magic pulled a Pat Riley promising back-to-backs. Probably not a bad time to say that. Don't see any team ready right now anywhere close to stopping them.
Ktron,
Every year since Brad became the coach, I keep looking for positive change. I keep hoping that as his experience increases he elevates his coaching ability. I am still searching for a more complete offense that can attack the defense from every angle. I keep waiting for Brad to pull one of his players from the game and sit him on the bench when that player deviates from the game plan. All players make mistakes and that can and should be tolerated. However, there is a relationship between mistake filled basketball and bad habits. When left unchecked, they will persist.
Brad has had a lot of very good basketball players. Unfortunately his last 3 trips to the ECF were all impacted by key guys being injured. This year you had GH and KW. In 2017 both GH and KI did not play and MS got banged up pretty Bradley. The year before IT got hurt. Last year he went in with a full compliment of players which included a deep bench. We all know what happened. That one was all about coaching which at its' center includes the ability or inability to fuse a team together. Everyone blames the Earth Is Flat guy. He certainly deserves a lot of blame. But what happened in the playoffs began during the regular season. Brad never established himself as the guy at the top of the food change. A guy that wasn't gonna take no shit from anybody.
No coach should be given unlimited opportunities but I do agree that Brad will be here for a few more cycles. That 10 year stint is coming up sooner than we think.
The Lakers will remain in contention because they have 2 elite pieces. Some of their vets will come and go but some will stay.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by dboss Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:56 pm
worcester wrote:
LA was one bad heel bruise to AD from being stopped.
Rondo has a $4.5 M player option next year with A. He deserves more. I'd like to see him sign with the Celtics for about $6M and be playoff Rondo for us came April, May, and June. He's be a backup point guard/playmaker with solid experience.
AND if he doesn't get along with Brad because Brad is being an inadequate coach, Danny could fire Brad and let Rondo run the team as a player/coach. Bill Russell style until Rajon retires.
Worcester, believe it or not I was actually thinking something quite similar. I know that Brad does not see it this way but Rondo does know how to run an offense.
Brad believes in a more egalitarian approach to running an offense and that makes a lot of sense in absence of an elite PG that can run an offense.
We can recall all the negative commentary about pounding the ball but in the end we still ended up with 3 ball pounding PG's (IT, KI and KW) except we have not come close to seeing the impact of an elite ball handling/passing PG that can literally pick a defense apart find a way to get everyone easier buckets. He would pick apart any zone defense.
If he came back I would denounce any trade comments that I made about RW3.
Rondo had an impressive playoff run with LA. He took a tremendous load off of LJ. I am sure they will want to keep him. I think a two year deal at the MLE is about right.
If he is smart he will resign with the Lakers and not the Celtics.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:02 pm
Brad would quit if Danny signed Rondo. Another reason to offer Rajon a contract.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by bobheckler Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:36 pm
There's been a lot of carping about Brad Stevens lately. Thought I'd post this to remind everyone Brad just signed a contract extension 2 months ago to the day.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/08/13/brad-stevens-celtics-contract-extension-stability-privilege-nba/
Bob
.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/08/13/brad-stevens-celtics-contract-extension-stability-privilege-nba/
Bob
.
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Re: The Autopsy Report
by worcester Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:41 pm
So did General McClellan before Lincoln replaced him with Grant.
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