Re: Here Comes Malcolm There Goes Theis and Nesmith

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:21 pm

I do not get why people are so convinced either Smart or White are on the table in future deals. Why? This is how to build a team. Neismith just was not going to produce here, whether it is because he is just not pro material or Ime just did not fit him in his line up. The game just went too fast for this kid. I truly hope he succeeds in Indy, I saw such defensive potential in him and, when he was on, which was not often, he had a quick release. I hated to see Theis leave again, but this is the nature of the game today. Again, I think he was not a fit in Ime’s system.

One or two more moves and Brad has shown the world that Wyc and company made the right decision moving him up. He seems to enjoy his job.

I see Danny is wheeling and dealing out in Utah, already has 5 draft picks in his pocket. Let’s see what he does with Donovan Mitchell.

by **gyso** Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:45 pm

gyso wrote:

. . . and the rebuttal:

Here Comes Malcolm There Goes Theis and Nesmith - Page 3 Scree345

by **gyso** Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:54 pm

by **NYCelt** Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:32 am

bobheckler wrote:Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 5 hours ago
League sources tell MassLive that 2023 first round pick the Celtics are trading in Malcolm Brogdon deal is top-12 protected. If it doesn't convey this year, Pacers get a second-round pick instead.

Mark Murphy @Murf56
about 4 hours ago
Per source - C’s goal is to continue with double big lineup, and that Malcolm Brogdon is viewed as a sixth man, behind Marcus Smart

Bob
MY NOTE: How do you build Champions? By getting starters on other teams to come off your bench because your starting lineup is so good they can't crack it. We now have Derrick White, who started for the Spurs, and Malcolm Brogdon, who has started for the Bucks and Pacers, coming off our bench.

.

I believe Brogdon is the likely starting PG, with Smart 6th man in the big lineup and Horford 6th when the team goes small.

I've seen at least one report Brogdon is being brought in as the starting PG. As much as Smart is my favorite current Celtic, I can't see him at the point ahead of Brogdon.

All the more reason the trade was a steal IMO.

by **gyso** Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:10 am

NYCelt,

Here Comes Malcolm There Goes Theis and Nesmith - Page 3 Scree349

by **gyso** Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:11 am

by **gyso** Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:12 am

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:24 am

Love the avatar Gyso!!!

by **worcester** Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:08 am

Any Trevion news? Did we sign him?

by **worcester** Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:13 am

I just googled and saw we did indeed Sign Trevion Williams to a summer league contract. For fun some blowout game I would like to see him on the floor with Grant and Rob. Williams x 3.

by **NYCelt** Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:37 am

gyso wrote:NYCelt,

Yeah, count me among them. Guilty as charged.

I believe Brogdon is a much better distributor who, like Smart, can defend multiple positions well.

If there are no further changes, I can see two possible versions used for starting lineups, with Horford either out or at center, and Smart at 2 in the small lineup.

I can’t picture a guard who can play at the level Brogdon still does, just walking in and being content as a sixth man. I think he comes in ready to compete and earn the starting spot at point. To me, it looks like a stronger rotation.

Of course, if there are more changes to come, my thoughts could change. As of this moment, it looks like there is no super deal being attempted for KD or anyone else, and that KD and Thomas Bryant may both head to Toronto. The Atlantic and the East could get tougher. The 17mil TPE looks like it will expire, so I think the hunt is on for players to fill a couple seats in the 11 - 15 range.

If something can now be done about bolstering the front court, I’ll start looking for hotel reservations in Boston for the ‘23 finals!

by **bobheckler** Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:42 pm

NYCelt wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 5 hours ago
League sources tell MassLive that 2023 first round pick the Celtics are trading in Malcolm Brogdon deal is top-12 protected. If it doesn't convey this year, Pacers get a second-round pick instead.

Mark Murphy @Murf56
about 4 hours ago
Per source - C’s goal is to continue with double big lineup, and that Malcolm Brogdon is viewed as a sixth man, behind Marcus Smart

Bob
MY NOTE: How do you build Champions? By getting starters on other teams to come off your bench because your starting lineup is so good they can't crack it. We now have Derrick White, who started for the Spurs, and Malcolm Brogdon, who has started for the Bucks and Pacers, coming off our bench.

.

I believe Brogdon is the likely starting PG, with Smart 6th man in the big lineup and Horford 6th when the team goes small.

I've seen at least one report Brogdon is being brought in as the starting PG. As much as Smart is my favorite current Celtic, I can't see him at the point ahead of Brogdon.

All the more reason the trade was a steal IMO.

NYCelt,

Mark Murphy @Murf56
yesterday
Per source - C’s goal is to continue with double big lineup, and that Malcolm Brogdon is viewed as a sixth man, behind Marcus Smart

Bob
MY NOTE: Why mess with success? The double big lineup, with Smart as the starting PG, got us to the Finals. What I want to know is how the minutes are going to be divided up between Smart, Brown, Brogdon and White. There are only 96 total back court minutes. Sure, Ime could go small, which would increase minutes available for the back court, but I haven't even thrown Pritchard into the mix. Where are his minutes? We are now 5 deep in the back court, with 4 of them worthy of starting. The more I think of this the more I think one of these players is gone, and Pritchard being the one sent onward isn't going to fix that logjam much since he doesn't play enough to move the needle.

.

by **bobheckler** Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:21 pm

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
League sources tell MassLive that 2023 first round pick the Celtics are trading in Malcolm Brogdon deal is top-12 protected. If it doesn't convey this year, Pacers get a second-round pick instead.

Bob
MY NOTE: If that first round pick is our pick, and not one that is coming via another team, then barring a complete season meltdown it's going to be a 2nd.

The deal, therefore, would look like this:

Theis + Nesmith + Fitts + Morgan + Stauskas + 2nd round pick = Brogdon

That makes the deal look like even more like highway robbery by Brad the Barterer. I mean, come on...

Brogdon averaged 20.1ppg in his last 2 seasons at Indy in 34mpg. He only played 1206 minutes last year due to a sore right Achilles, NO surgery, just sore. Theis, Nesmith etal combined played a total of 1014 for us (Theis played an additional 584 minutes for Houston, but that had no impact on our roster minutes distribution. He played 393 minutes for us). So, we got a player that earned more minutes, despite being out for extended periods for rest, than the sum total of all the minutes of all the players we sent to Indy. This means that even if Brogdon misses a comparable number of minutes this year we've got no bigger a hole in our minutes distribution than we would have if we kept those players and the minutes we'd get from Brogdon would be better quality minutes. Everybody knows how highly I think of Theis, how underrated and underappreciated I think he is, but he's no Malcolm Brogdon.

The winner of a trade is the team that gets the best player. Brad won this one. He also won the Kemba/Horford trade. The jury is still out on the JRich + Romeo + pick for DWhite trade but, as much as I liked Josh too, DWhite does his job on defense well too and he's under contract for longer and, as I'm saying now, my gut tells me Brad's not done yet. We've got a logjam in the back court now and we're short a big. Al, as well as he played last year (and I think it's safe to say he shocked all of us at his quality and durability) is now 36 years old. Our front court cannot be the fragile Robert Williams, a 36 year old, small ball Grant (who, with his loss of weight would be an even less effective small ball 5) and The Green Kornet. Brad must address this, and I'm sure he will. If Ime is planning to play a double-big lineup the chances of injuries become more likely to those bigs and we don't have a reliable 3rd big off the bench anymore. I know there's talk about Thomas Bryant coming here, but maybe he doesn't. Even if he does, is he whom/all we need to firm up our front court?

Something big this way cometh, imo.

.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:25 pm

Bob these are good problems to have, too many good players. Some have mentioned Brogden’s injury history, well Smart also has an injury history. The way he throws his body around, he’s always beat up. The depth in the backcourt should also give more flexibility/depth to the wings, as Jaylen and Malcom can spell Tatum. We need J’s fresh for next years run.

by **bobheckler** Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:58 pm

Bob
MY NOTE: What I'm liking about this highlight film is that it's not all shooting like most highlight films are. There's a lot of very good passing, which is great, but also some defensive highlights. Not something one usually sees in highlight films and not what I expected from a Malcolm Brogdon highlight film. VERY nice to see as that has been my #1 concern about him. He has quicker hands than I've given him credit for.

Another point about Brogdon: according to his basketball-reference.com page he drew 57 shooting fouls last year vs 28 shooting fouls committed. That's a big plus for a scorer. He committed 8 offensive fouls vs 7 drawn, so that's basically a wash. Brogdon creates foul trouble for the opponents more than he creates foul trouble for his team.

Also, only 34% of his fgas are 3pt fgas. That % was up to 38% the year before last, but his 3pt fg% was 38.8% that year. This suggests some good shot discipline by Brogdon. He doesn't just launch 3s even though he's not shooting them well like, say, a Marcus Smart who has zero shot memory.

.

by **dboss** Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:58 pm

Also, he is a 3 level scorer.

If he can stay healthy the Celtics should be the top team in the East.

Hoping KD heads West.

After all the dust settles, we should look at what other teams in the East have done.

by **gyso** Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:01 pm

by **gyso** Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:02 pm

by **jrleftfoot** Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:59 am

We gave up two guys that can't play and three guys that don't play for a starting caliber guard who can play on or off the ball. Pretty much of a nobrainer.

by **dboss** Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:35 am

For anyone out there that thinks we can move Smart or White because we added Brogdon, slow it down. Here is the injury history report on MB

DATE INJURY
2/28/22 Rest
2/24/22 Achilles
1/20/22 Achilles
1/13/22 Achilles
1/12/22 Achilles
12/23/21 Health and safety protocols
11/5/21 Illness
10/27/21 Hamstring
10/19/21 Left AC
4/29/21 Hamstring
4/2/21 Hip
3/22/21 Back
2/27/21 Knee
8/11/20 Neck
8/5/20 Neck
7/31/20 Cervical Strain
3/4/20 Hip
1/25/20 Concussion
1/22/20 Laceration
12/31/19 Back
12/30/19 Left Hamstring
12/23/19 Groin
12/7/19 Hand
11/15/19 Back
3/15/19 Heel
3/2/19 Heel
2/22/19 Foot
1/28/19 Sternum
12/17/18 Hamstring
12/14/18 Hamstring
2/1/18 Torn left quadricep tendon
1/26/18 Sore right calf
10/23/17 Sprained left ankle

by **NYCelt** Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:45 am

dboss,

I can't see why we would want to trade Smart. White is another story. He's OK as the 4th or 5th guard. Good enough to keep but I believe an upgrade from his skillset is also realistic.

On the topic of Brogdon's injuries; fortunately the torn quad in '18 appears to be the one major problem, and he seems to have overcome that nicely.

The rest of them? Well, let's just say that I think I had 6 or 7 from that list just cleaning out the garage last week!

Regards

by **dbrown4** Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:48 am

As long as that list is, I'm going to guess that about average for player. Good to know though, dboss!!

db

by **dboss** Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:52 am

NYCelt wrote:dboss,

I can't see why we would want to trade Smart. White is another story. He's OK as the 4th or 5th guard. Good enough to keep but I believe an upgrade from his skillset is also realistic.

On the topic of Brogdon's injuries; fortunately the torn quad in '18 appears to be the one major problem, and he seems to have overcome that nicely.

The rest of them? Well, let's just say that I think I had 6 or 7 from that list just cleaning out the garage last week!

Regards

The only thing missing from the injury list is erectile dysfunction, smh

In all seriousness, I also saw the torn quad in 2018 and came to the same conclusion. That was the injury that really stood out.

by **bobheckler** Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:18 pm

It's official. Brogdon will wear Delonte West's old number, #13. I hope it works out for him better than it has for poor Delonte.

Here Comes Malcolm There Goes Theis and Nesmith - Page 3 FXQLujeUIAEEpRN?format=jpg

Here Comes Malcolm There Goes Theis and Nesmith - Page 3 FXQLujeUIAEEpRN?format=jpg

Bob

.

by **Shamrock1000** Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:57 pm

bobheckler wrote:Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
League sources tell MassLive that 2023 first round pick the Celtics are trading in Malcolm Brogdon deal is top-12 protected. If it doesn't convey this year, Pacers get a second-round pick instead.

Bob
MY NOTE: If that first round pick is our pick, and not one that is coming via another team, then barring a complete season meltdown it's going to be a 2nd.

The deal, therefore, would look like this:

Theis + Nesmith + Fitts + Morgan + Stauskas + 2nd round pick = Brogdon

That makes the deal look like even more like highway robbery by Brad the Barterer. I mean, come on...

Brogdon averaged 20.1ppg in his last 2 seasons at Indy in 34mpg. He only played 1206 minutes last year due to a sore right Achilles, NO surgery, just sore. Theis, Nesmith etal combined played a total of 1014 for us (Theis played an additional 584 minutes for Houston, but that had no impact on our roster minutes distribution. He played 393 minutes for us). So, we got a player that earned more minutes, despite being out for extended periods for rest, than the sum total of all the minutes of all the players we sent to Indy. This means that even if Brogdon misses a comparable number of minutes this year we've got no bigger a hole in our minutes distribution than we would have if we kept those players and the minutes we'd get from Brogdon would be better quality minutes. Everybody knows how highly I think of Theis, how underrated and underappreciated I think he is, but he's no Malcolm Brogdon.

The winner of a trade is the team that gets the best player. Brad won this one. He also won the Kemba/Horford trade. The jury is still out on the JRich + Romeo + pick for DWhite trade but, as much as I liked Josh too, DWhite does his job on defense well too and he's under contract for longer and, as I'm saying now, my gut tells me Brad's not done yet. We've got a logjam in the back court now and we're short a big. Al, as well as he played last year (and I think it's safe to say he shocked all of us at his quality and durability) is now 36 years old. Our front court cannot be the fragile Robert Williams, a 36 year old, small ball Grant (who, with his loss of weight would be an even less effective small ball 5) and The Green Kornet. Brad must address this, and I'm sure he will. If Ime is planning to play a double-big lineup the chances of injuries become more likely to those bigs and we don't have a reliable 3rd big off the bench anymore. I know there's talk about Thomas Bryant coming here, but maybe he doesn't. Even if he does, is he whom/all we need to firm up our front court?

Something big this way cometh, imo.

.

Wait ..what??? I thought top 12 protected means that if the pick is in the top 12 the Celtics keep it, and then give Indy a second rounder next year. If that pick goes in the top 12 next year, then something seriously went wrong. Thus, unless we collapse, Indy will get a 1st round pick from us. Am I misunderstanding something?

by Sponsored content