Could Labron Be Headed Down The Same Path As Wlliams & Banks?

dbrown

First off I really enjoy reading your post. You can really write.
Your whole argument is very well represented. I can only add that before LAST YEAR I pulled for LeBron. I thought very much he was headed the right way and would defend him in arguments.

But he took a hard right turn and swung waay high in the turn last year. I wonder why that happened?

Dbrown outside of boston and la I feel san antone has a fine org as well but dont know if they can possible afford it. Can we afford it? who would we have to let go?

Jeb

The court is not big enough for Kobe and James to co-exist on the same team.
Who would give in? Kobe? no way! James? absolutely not! The post that has James going to New Jersey could be right on. He would have his friend there, Jay-Z, and a core of young players who are improving with each game. Lopez is a good center, still learning the pro game. Devon Harris is a terrific point guard. The only problem is that once they sign LeBron, there is no money left to bring in talented veteran's to surround him. I am sorry, this Shaq experiment is going to be a failure. I see him going downhill as the year goes on. I believe James will definately leave Cleveland. I know it is early, but to me the writing is on the wall.

Perhaps we are looking at it in the wrong way. Perhaps its the coaching staff that has failed LJ. I saw a great piece on TNT last night where Barkley said that they are using him the wrong way. He should not be bringing the ball up or driving to the hoop 5 on 1. If you are able to get it on the internet from last night it starts to make a whole lot of sense unless LJ is also the co-coach and therefore impossible to coach any more.

I think he does what he wants. If he didn't think he should be bringing the ball up, he would. He doesn't trust his teammates. What is the matter with Mo Williams bringing the ball up, isn't he the point guard?

Rosalie,

Great point. He simply doesn't trust his teammates. My dad used to say, "If you want something done right, do it yourself." Not great advice for team basketbal. If Cleveland is down by 2, Game 7 of the finals, time running out. LBJ is double teamed and can't shoot. Mo is open behind the arc. He ain't gonna give it to Mo.

Danny will ask him, same scenario, but Ray Allen is open in the corner. Would you throw it to him, LeBron? If LBJ answers yes, all is not lost. But if he answers, "I'll just plow my way through and get fouled and send it to OT." He aint getting that call either.

112288,

It is definitely the coaching staff that is messing him up. You saw it in the playoffs when they were playing Orlando, with the fourth quarter LBJ show. Mike Brown left a lot to be desired by that move. Guess who never made it to the finals.

Jeb,

KG said it best. "Anything is possible!!!!" I'm not well versed on CBA, etc. But, didn't LAL pull off the Houdini trick of the century getting Guffaw for pratically nothing? Danny is 10X more capable of pulling off something like that.

LBJ in NJ? Yeah, they're 0-7 as I post. There's a 7 year wait for you for getting to the exact same place CLE is right now a remote chance at a championship. Go ahead, check it out.

Inevitably, when teams don't win championships, I think it all comes down to management not utilizing their players to the max, ramming square pegs in round holes.

Dbrown

As you have said perfect on this forum. Bring the guys in and let em do what they do.

Jeb

RosalieTCeltics wrote:The court is not big enough for Kobe and James to co-exist on the same team.
Who would give in? Kobe? no way! James? absolutely not! The post that has James going to New Jersey could be right on. He would have his friend there, Jay-Z, and a core of young players who are improving with each game. Lopez is a good center, still learning the pro game. Devon Harris is a terrific point guard. The only problem is that once they sign LeBron, there is no money left to bring in talented veteran's to surround him. I am sorry, this Shaq experiment is going to be a failure. I see him going downhill as the year goes on. I believe James will definately leave Cleveland. I know it is early, but to me the writing is on the wall.

I agree.......and the Nets with Harris, Lopez, Lee and a top 5 pick in 2010, coupled with the present organization and a new arena, might well be attractive to LeBron.

dbrown, I don't think the Nets are quite as bad as their record would indicate. They certainly gave the C's all they could handle Saturday night, and that was with only 8 players! They just don't have the veterans needed to close out a game. I think the addition of LeBron would definitely make them a playoff team, and with another addition or two, they could be championship contenders. The Cavs right now don't have a point guard as efficient as Devin Harris, and while their centers are good, Brook Lopez is very young and has a ton of up side. I think it's more likely we'll see LBJ in Jersey than it is to see him in BOS or LA.

Kelly,

As I thought more about this, the Celtics turned themselves completely around in one year. They laid it all out there for all other GMs to try. I just don't think there are any other GM's that can do what Danny did, Mrs. Torrence. (Sorry, couldn't resist the obligatory "Shining" reference!)

NJ has people out and they will move toward the middle of the pack as time goes on. But the point is, the Celtics are much bettter able to see the whole picture than other teams in the league. Danny Ainge was for the most part right in the middle of Celtic history, a bridge if you will. He got to play with Larry, Kevin and Parish, hung out with Len Bias hours before his death, according the 30 for 30 story on ESPN. He got to hang with Auerbach where he got to be around one of the greatest coaches, managers and owners of all time. We are just beginning to see his genius in putting teams together with all the moving parts.

LBJ may just go to NJ, but does NJ have the horses in management to deal with the freak show that will follow? I doubt it. Is NJ really any better than Cleveland's management? DF's a pretty smart dude. And he's cf'ing all over the place. The only history DF has to go on in Cleveland is that the town of Cleveland has sucked for 40 years as far as sports goes.

Regardless of where he goes, it's going to be at least 2-3 years of adjustments just getting LeBron in place because everyone is going to bend over backwards to accomodate him. When the GM is through with that, then he/she can look at what's left of the rest of the team and begin building for a championship. As should be quite clear from Cleveland, just because you get LeBron doesn't mean you've got a championship(s) in hand.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the only team that can give him what he really wants, which is multiple championships, is the Celtics. But in the same breath, the Celtics won't go after him thanks to the mini lesson learned from Starbury (thank goodness that was a very inexpensive lesson) and by observing from afar, AI. LBJ isn't as far gone as those two, but as jeb put it, something snapped over the last year or so. When you think your personality transcends the game, you are in trouble.

If our Danny offers, he will offer something completely different than everyone else. No fluff, just the hard facts. He will tell him the same thing he told KG, leave your ego (and your checkbook) at the door and you will win championships. (Although it probably wasn't that hard for KG giving the Minni 10 year run. He didn't have an ego after that.)

I don't disagree that Danny Ainge is an excellent GM, and IF he was to make a pitch for LeBron it would go something like that. I just don't think that will happen. I know LeBron has been vocal about winning a championship lately, but when he came into the league wasn't he mainly concerned with becoming a billionaire? I'm not sure that he wants a ring as much as he wants the notoriety that comes with the ring. I don't think LeBron could ever fit into the Celtics because he is too self-involved. You don't come to Boston to be a superstar, you come to Boston to win. I can't see LeBron ever being happy not being THE man.

Hi,
With all due respect to all the posters that contemplate LJ "coming to town", I have to ask: who do you think Celtics have to give up PP or KG? Or, put 3 forwards in the starting line? IMHO, in order to get LJ Celtics have to demolish the current team and build a new one almost from ground up. So, I don't think it's gonna happen.

AK

Good point sinus. If it were 3 years down the road it would make more sense. For instance, who wouldn't want Paul Pierce as LBJ's backup? This whole idea seems more like a fantasy than any kind of reality. Not only do we not have the money for it, but we also don't have the roster space. And personally, I don't want him. Sure he's a great player, one of the best, but I can't imagine him in Celtic green. LeBron puts the "me" in team, and that's really the opposite of what the Celtics are about.

Agreed sinus. We're all (hopefully) assuming Danny will keep most/all of the team intact, because it ain't broke right now. I'm saying supply and demand just won't meet up to make it happen in the current situation. Danny probably doesn't want him. LeBron needs to know what's missing and what will still be missing for him going forward. But the real question becomes when do you start taking the team apart and rebuilding, a la Chicago in 1996-97? And how?

Fantasy? Yes, as of today. As we saw last season, though, an injury can make a huge difference and start the wheels turning probably earlier than one would like. Everyone that posts now includes "barring injury" in their remarks.

From this discussion, no one really wants LeBron here, but if he starts winning championships at our expense, we're going to need to justify why we passed when the opportunity came up. I think we have stated those reasons pretty clearly here. At this point, I don't want LeBron winning any. If he comes out like Wilt, then I'm happy. But this guy wants multiples and be like Mike (#23) and if he starts winning, that means the Celtics aren't.

AS to the point about Lebron being behind schedule, he is not. Jordan didn't win his first title until he was 28. Lebron is 24. Years ago many people thought Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe couldn't coexist on the same team. They did, and won a title in'73 with the Knicks. Lebron & kobe could flourish and do much destruction if paired on the same team. As for the supporting cast. Minimal would be needed, and the 2 superstars would definately make them better! I hope it NEVER comes to pass!-MD.

In terms of the "me first" comments inregards to LeBron. I concur. But with a caveat. ONLY FOR THE LAST 1.5 YEARS!

Before that I felt he was closer to Larry and Magic than Kobe and Jordan (or to quote J. Most "his lordship") and he was giving me great hope for the future of the nba.

I also dont feel like he is driving down a one way street with his current tude.
When I ws 24 and getting every girl I set my eyes on and hadn't lost a friend to death and never had a major injury I was a waaayyyy bigger dumbass than LeBron.

Jeb

Jeb why do you suppose LBJ changed to a me first attitude within the past year and a half? Do you think it's because he got a whiff of a championship and it triggered something, or do you think it's more about the players surrounding him? Could it be his age? Or something else entirely?

As a long, long time Celtics fan, my opinion on whether the Celtics would go after LeBron next year is NO. They would have to destroy what they have so proudly been touting for the last two seasons, going into this one. Is LeBron a "Celtic" type? In my opinion, no. We have not had a player like him in all the years I have followed this team. Everyone is a TEAM player, devoted to making everyone around them better. I would argue that giving up Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett to obtain James is too high a price. Paul Pierce has given his heart and soul to this team, and Garnett has turned the entire franchise around in two years. These men are true Celtics. I have left Ray Allen out of the mix, which seems to happen to him alot. He is a person that the Celtics should be proud to have here. He brings class and honor to the game. He seems to get lost in the shuffle alot. Many would give him up, I would not. To me, he is the second coming of John Havlicek.

All in all, James is a wonderful ballplayer. Wherever he ends up, there will
be a complete change in a franchise. But a title? It will take a special team
to bring it home to him. I am not sure he will ever leave Cleveland.

Sorry, MD, I meant years in the league before a title.

Rosalie, you are correct it will take a special team. Unfortunately there are none outside of Boston and LAL that can put it together on the managment side. We don't want him and LAL would just be able to field KoMe, LeBron and Guffaw and still be $30 million over the cap.

How many titles will LeBron win in his career? My prediction right now...0. Big goose egg. Unless he gets a clue like KoMe has slightly. We can now add AI to the list of what happens to selfish players in the NBA who don't get it or figure it out about TEAM. If LeBron does stay in Cleveland after they fall out in the playoffs this summer, house will be cleaned...Brown and Ferry in particular. Only way that's going to work.

BTW, two benchmark games coming up for CLE this week back-to-back Orlando and Miami. Ouch. Could be huge blowouts. That will put them at 4-5.

KellyG

Because nobody and I mean nobody is telling him no.

Jeb

Dbrown

I thought you were touting leBron...and making a damn good argument.

I aint sure...his own press may have made him beyond redemption.

any ol way.\\Jeb

Jeb I would argue that nobody has told him no his whole life. He's been followed by the media since his high school playing days, so the limelight is nothing new to him. I'm not sure that I agree that he's only been a me first player the past couple years. Actually, I would say that the past few years he's actually been a little better than the first few. The key word there is little, because he's still selfish with the ball and doesn't trust his teammates. I do think that if he doesn't get a coach that will actually coach him rather than just allowing him to do whatever he wants, then it will be extremely difficult for him to win a championship.

I just think a lot of people have completely discounted him as an option. I think Boston has the overall environment that can help almost any player realize their dreams of a championship. But, Boston has learned a lesson, fortunately very cheaply, with mega-personalities via Starbury. I wanted to see where we draw our line in the sand. We liked Starbury because he was cheap and wasn't going to cost us alot otherwise as a backup. We reasoned KG would keep him in line and he did. But we were nervous about him (chemistry) and had to adjust because he was strangely outside of our box. He did OK, helped a little. But then, through his further off-court antics shot himself in the foot. He was too far gone to save him.

On the other end with Sheldon Williams, we pretty much thought Danny had lost his mind on this one since he had been thrown around the league for 5 years and was clearly a project. We eventually reasoned he would be third back-up and zero help, probably trade bait. An injury to Glen and this guy is like gold. Double/Double madness!!

With Marquis, we weren't sure how he would fit in, lots of pros and cons. We've found that when this guy is on the court, he doesn't fill the stat sheet except his +/- is off the chart.

In summary, for what LeBron wants, which I think is multiple championships, not the money, a la Michael, only Boston and LA have what he wants, but those teams are already stacked with no salary cap room unless a trade is made. I predict Boston won't take but a cursory look at him in the summer. LA may take a harder look. But again, the math (and egos) won't work unless they clean out the remaining starters and half the bench. So that leaves LeBron with lesser teams and much lesser management to pull off his ultimate wish. Hence my zero championship prediction.

So with all the hype about this summer, I think if we are going to get in the FA sweepstakes, we'll look a little further down the chart at a DWade or Bosh or heaven forbid an ATL player!

Time to move on on this one. Time to start a DWade thread!

It wouldn't be heaven forbid, if the Atlanta player was Joe Johnson!-MD

md,

I know, just kidding, that would work wonders for Rondo if he makes the short list. Clearly, we have placed a huge bet on Rondo. As time moves on, younger legs will be the issue. JJ would be a huge plus. I'm still grumbling about the playoff series two years ago!! (Even though we won!!)