Re: SAM'S CELTICS FORUM OFFICIAL 2012 LIVE DRAFT THREAD

[gyso]

More draft analysis:

Jared Sullinger:

Mike Huguenin's Analysis: He could prove to be a steal for the aging Celtics; then again, a balky back may wreck his career. Sullinger is a bull in the low post and is an excellent rebounder. He’s not a great athlete, which could hurt on defense in the NBA, but he has a high basketball IQ to make up for that.

Fab Melo:

Mike Huguenin's Analysis: The Celtics need size, and Melo certainly helps in that regard. He is a good shot-blocker, but his offense has a long way to go. He’s also not as good a rebounder as he should be for a guy his size. Big question: Can Melo be an effective man-to-man defender?

Kris Joseph:

Mike Huguenin's Analysis: Joseph was Syracuse’s leading scorer last season and has a nice offensive skills. He has 3-point range, but is most effective with his mid-range jumper. He also has the athletic ability to get into the lane and create contact. His defense is questionable and he’s not a good rebounder.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/draft;_ylt=Avp6CYtYajxW8.f7c.YxmbfPgq9_?round=1

[bobheckler]

I've had a day to calm down and think about these picks. A couple of Anchor Steams and a Patron or two didn't hurt neither.

Most of the players whose names had been associated with us: White, Nicholson and Harkness were already gone. I was really excited at the prospect of landing Royce White, but there's no point crying over spilled milk. Who was left was Melo, Jones III, Sullinger, Moultrie. I may be forgetting someone but it seems to me all the athletic speed players were gone. Moultrie was taken with the #27 pick by Miami. He was projected to go in the high-teens, so he dropped 10 slots. That means that 4 GMs after Danny watched Arnett Moultrie fall into their laps and let him drop right through their wickets. After drafting him, Miami shipped him immediately to Philly for bunch of second rounders. Miami has Juwan Howard sitting at the end of their bench. He's so old he's going straight from his retirement announcement to a senior's assisted-living community and yet they traded him away for, what amounts to, salary relief (second rounders don't have guaranteed contracts). Say what you will about Spoelstra but Pat Riley is nobody's fool. Perry Jones III was picked next by OKC at #28. He was a mid-teen projection and dropped 15 slots. My point? Maybe we're too enamored with the predictions of pundits and the ESPN hype and aren't looking at these players like the pros do. "The pros" being the NBA coaches, scouts and GMs.

Now, on to our picks:

1. Sullinger. Before the news came out about his back, he was projected as a lottery pick and maybe even a top 10 pick. I don't know how bad his back is, that is of considerable importance, but if it's over-hyped then we got a lottery pick with a bottom half 1st round pick. He shoots over 50% from the field. He shot 40% from 3. He hit 77% of his free throws. He is NOT turnover-prone. Some of us (I'm looking straight at you now, Cowens) have been bemoaning our lack of a physical enforcer type on the Celtics since Perk was traded. Well, at 6'9", 268#, Sully fits that bill. He's a fundamentally sound bull. Sam sent out an SOS for a PF that was at least 6'10" tall and 250#. Ok, so Sully might be a bit short there, but he has a 7'1"+ wingspan and that helps. He has been a winner at every level and maybe he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder that he fell to #21. Remember what fueled Pierce for the first couple of years? It was the fact that he thought he should have been picked higher than #10 and he paid back every team that passed over him. That's the way competitors are, and Sully is very competitive. Check out his draftexpress video again. We are "soft" no more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqlNZjBCl8U&feature=player_embedded


2. Fab Melo. We need a center. Period. A real goddamn center. Not a "quasi/can fill in/he's the best we have/we only need a few minutes out of him" center, a real player who is built to play that position. 6'11"+, 250#+. Somebody who can get into the NBA trenches with the big dogs and take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. Melo has that. He was #2 in blocks/40mpg after Anthony Davis. Gotta love that! He came to this country and went to a university where all the classes were taught in english, his teammates and coaches all spoke english and he couldn't. In a few years he learned english. That suggests an ability to absorb new things. He dropped 30# and gained mobility. That shows something. He lacks basketball IQ, because he started late, but if he can learn, he can learn. Shooting and free throws can be learned. If he's undisciplined, Pierce and Doc are good at teaching that. Regardless, we need a center. Period. A real goddamn center and Melo and Ezeli were the only ones left standing. I don't know a thing about Ezeli, so I don't know if Danny made the right choice, but those were his limited choices. We now have, with Steamer, a center that's built for the wars.

We are short and soft no more, especially if KG comes back.

bob


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[tjmakz]

bob,

beat is probably the best one that can give a reasonable assessment of what type of a player Melo will be since he watched him many times. To me, stats don't mean a lot in college. I want to see the type of player he is with my own eyes. You are correct that Boston needs a center and even if he is a project, I would think that Boston will use some of their cap space to make offers to either Kaman or Hibbert. I doubt much will be expected from Melo in the next 2 years.

When I watched Sullinger play this season, I thought to myself that if I was a GM, I would not take him with a lottery pick. This is before I heard he has disc issues. He reminds me of a more talented Derick Caracter who is now out of the league and most likely will never return. They are both 6'9 260lbs-ish. Despite his girth, Caracter had a very hard time getting his shot off near the basket because he had so little athleticism. Even though I am quite down on Sullinger from what I saw of him, his back issue and how poorly he did at the pre-draft workouts, I heard that the Lakers were looking to move into the 20's to draft Sullinger if he kept falling...

[bobheckler]

bob,

beat is probably the best one that can give a reasonable assessment of what type of a player Melo will be since he watched him many times. To me, stats don't mean a lot in college. I want to see the type of player he is with my own eyes. You are correct that Boston needs a center and even if he is a project, I would think that Boston will use some of their cap space to make offers to either Kaman or Hibbert. I doubt much will be expected from Melo in the next 2 years.

When I watched Sullinger play this season, I thought to myself that if I was a GM, I would not take him with a lottery pick. This is before I heard he has disc issues. He reminds me of a more talented Derick Caracter who is now out of the league and most likely will never return. They are both 6'9 260lbs-ish. Despite his girth, Caracter had a very hard time getting his shot off near the basket because he had so little athleticism. Even though I am quite down on Sullinger from what I saw of him, his back issue and how poorly he did at the pre-draft workouts, I heard that the Lakers were looking to move into the 20's to draft Sullinger if he kept falling...

TJ,

You're dead on when it comes to beat's opinion of Melo, and I've stated that numerous times. I'm looking for a silver lining here. As far as Kaman or Hibbert go, I think Kaman is way too expensive and Hibbert is a restricted free agent, which means that Indy can match any offer. So, barring some unexpected plum from heaven, Melo or Ezeli were the best of what was left of the litter.

Sully's back is an issue. I have no idea how that will pan out. I am not optimistic given the longer NBA season, going up against bigger, stronger, more physical players.

Perry Jones III was intriguing, but erratic, and we already have an athletic player his size/girth that is a better defender, a good mid-range shooter and already knows Doc's system; Jujuan Johnson. Moultrie, for whatever reason, wasn't attractive to Miami other than as trade bait.

I fear you are right about Sully's inability to transfer his game to the pro level, but our needs for bulk and strength as well as the limited availability of better talent, drove this selection.

I wonder how many 2x All-Americans have gone busto?


bob


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[NYCelt]

Hey all,

Still thinking through this, and the fact that unlike the Celtics I didn't work these guys out.

I'm buying Sullinger, although if I read one more account that he's slow and unathletic...

So we might have come away with the next Powe or Big Baby; not too bad.

However...

I live an hour from the Carrier Dome and have watched Melo and Joseph many times, my fanny planted firmly in the seat (or stinking aluminum bench) after the boring drive down I-90.
(beat and I have the place surrounded, although I think his drive is shorter and more frightening in the winter.)

Melo had one sort of, almost, decent year; this year. His biggest asset is he might be able to defend at this level, and he played a zone in college. He's a load, period. Here, in a season where teams like Miami, Chicago or OKC (despite Perk), showed how the league is moving away from mountains in the middle we have...a mountain. He's a project yes, and Perk took a few years to develop so that must be the thinking.

I terms of laziness, Melo wins the prize off the court. I don't know how many of you realize this, but D1 athletes don't always have to attend class (heavy note of sarcasm); they have tutors. Kind of hard to fail. Melo wasn't even seeing his tutor and became ineligible. You might say that has nothing to do with basketball, but it has everything to do with character.

I still think Ezeli or even Sacre (60th pick; C from Gonzaga) were better picks at center, and in today's NBA where power forward is the spot to fill Moultrie and Plumlee were still there.

Kris Joseph I've watched for 4 years. Great kid. Not an NBA player.

It is kind of funny around Western NY today. If you catch the various papers and call-in radio shows there's a lot of laughter. The Orange managed to get three kids drafted, and it would have been four if one (Jardine) hadn't broke his foot in a workout. Only one, Waiters, is generally regarded an NBA prospect in this area, and nobody can believe he went as high as he did.

It's being classified as the great Syracuse sell job.

My nephew, a Syracuse U Junior-to-be says his Twitter account has been burning it up with messages of disbelief. While I don't take the account of a college frat kid as gospel, I do know what I've seen. I just don't get it.

Hang in there Rajon. As soon as we figure out if these guys can rebound we'll see if we can teach 'em to make the outlet pass.

As I said last night, it's my sincere hope I eat my words. Personally, I think we flat-out blew it.

Regards

P.S. In fairness, the last time I thought we screwed up this bad, we had just traded our top pick and a couple of players for Ray Allen.

[pete]

Not sure what to make of this, but here is a section of Mannix article on SI Drafts Winners and Losers:

Three winners

• New Orleans -- First, the Hornets grab the draft's lone transcendent talent in Anthony Davis, a defensive menace who will terrorize dribble penetrators for years. After an offseason training with Kevin Love and Al Horford -- two All-Stars who also work with noted trainer Rob McClanaghan -- Davis will come to camp a more polished offensive player, too. Then, with the No. 10 pick, they picked up Austin Rivers, a dynamic combo guard that oozes potential -- once someone figures out what position to play him. If New Orleans brings back Eric Gordon, it has the core of a sensational young starting lineup.

• Boston -- Boston addressed significant frontcourt needs by plucking plummeting Ohio State power forward Jared Sullinger at No. 21 and defensive-minded Syracuse center Fab Melo (more on him below) at No. 22. Sullinger is an interesting pick: a year ago he was considered a top-five talent, but a less than stellar sophomore year combined with concerns about a potentially chronic back injury had teams running away from him. Two concerns general managers often cite with Sullinger: a low motor and difficulties defending the pick and roll. Kevin Garnett, who assisted with the development of Kendrick Perkins and Glen Davis, could be a big help to Sullinger -- if KG decides to return.

Boston took a flyer on Melo's Syracuse teammate, Kris Joseph, an athletic small forward, at No. 51.

• Philadelphia -- At No. 15 the Sixers took St. John's forward Maurice Harkless, a raw but extremely gifted small forward. Then the Sixers cut a deal with Miami to acquire Mississippi State big man Arnett Moultrie, a double-double machine with the Bulldogs who can defend and hit the offensive glass. The decision to draft Harkless likely spells the end for Andre Iguodala, who could be moved for a shooter the Sixers sorely still need.

• Honorable Mention: Chicago -- The Bulls never thought Kentucky point guard Marquis Teague would be on the board at No. 29.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/chris_mannix/06/29/2012-nba-draft-winners-losers/index.html#ixzz1zDNUFZlR

[beat]

TJ Bob

The sample we all have on Melo is pretty small. Everyone can look at the stats and see as a frosh he did very little at SU, very little. Then as a Soph he improved a lot dropped some tonage, and got quicker. No doubt he was the anchor in the middle of that 2-3 zone. Seems a few are enamoured about his shot-blocking, well consider he played a zone and was always around the rim, being 7ft I should hope he'd get more than his share of those. Without looking I wonder just how many of them came against the vaunted cupcakes on SU's schedule (Lemoyne, Seinna, Colgate ect, vs how many in tough Big East competition. There are no cupcakes anymore.......
well Charlotte, and Sacramento aside.

My beef was primarily based on his suspension, reinstatement, then final suspension and how that affected his team. He had a chance to get things taken care of in the classroom but for whatever reason did not and left an NCAA possible title run at SU in the rear view mirror. In the Syracuse area there were any number of distractions this season, so I won't even venture down that road.

Defensively he seems to have some good instincts, but in a system like ours and given his ability to learn and improve looks very promising, he MUST improve his rebounding period. Right now he is too soft there, he has to want every rebound but he has shown little fire in going about it, this is where an hour or 2 with KG will do one of 2 things, scare the living crap out of him, or make him wish he spend a little more time in that English class at SU (and perhaps even be back there) but there is another end to the court and that is a huge concern for me.

MELO has no offense moves. Does not have a bad touch and actually has a nice looking shot but again he never was the focus of the offense at SU anyway. And he certainly won't be here either.

He is a true project. Given we will have a full training camp and with some extra work maybe we will have a gem, maybe not.

Kept watching Bilas's next 10 best players last eve, at the time the C's picked him he had just made it to number 10. ????

We needed bigs and we got them. Is it a roll of the dice?, certainly but here we are 20 hours later talking about his game, and that's a far cry from what we were doing at this time back in 1986 talking about Bias the next day.

Melo will need a fire lit under his ass. If so he has come to the right place and we will know soon enough what the lighting of the fire will bring us.

As for Sully. He can flat out play. Can our team of Dr's keep him on the court?

Actually think the diamond in the rough is Joseph. He really was the glue to the SU team this year. Played 4 years and played well. Might be a pleasant surprise.

NYCelt

At least I don't have to pay for the excitement of a trip down I-81. With this past winter no whiteouts and only about 10 hours on the snowblower. Remember when they were saying there would be no tolls on the thruway at one time????

beat

[NYCelt]

beat,

I do remember them saying that; several toll increases ago!

Regards

[112288]

Melo had a language barrier. he spoke spanish and had to learn english.

112288

[worcester]

Portugese if he's Brazilian.

[112288]

And in Brazil German!

112288

[NYCelt]

Melo had a language barrier. he spoke spanish and had to learn english.

112288

112288,

He's learned to speak English very well.

Other than that, he's just not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Regards

[cowens/oldschool]

beat

I thought Joseph was the key to that team, hes athletic, can run floor, has decent outside stroke can defend.....sometimes he disappears though. I saw Drummond and Melo play, I don't think Drummond has any better offense than Melo, Melo is taller, may be quicker, their defense seems equal to me as Melo is more fluid. I saw Drummond look like a big stiff vs Marquette as Jae Craeder went off and Drumond looked defensless and was missing point blank shots. Melo was great during early season run as Cuse was no 1, all he did was defend and allow everyone to press and overplay passing lanes as all he did was protect rim and his presence made that defense. I was shocked in all these mocks that Drummond was rated so much higher than Melo. If there is any validity to my comparison than picking where we were, we got a steal, now hes got to work on his game, his body, everything and stop smiling so much.....get fockin mean.I wonder how Cuse with Melo would have done vs Kentucky? Cuse with Melo could really defend and run.

bobby h you are a pitbull, that was my first impression of you when we met and you relentlessly talked hoop, I hope we have 2 young mean guys. Well everyone wants the athletic skilled long PF'S, but you can't always get that at 21, yet somehow we got Rondo there years ago. I'm hoping we got a Carlos Boozer punisher type at best and Leon/Baby clone at worst, Sully has a way better post up game than Leon or Baby....we'll just have to see/pray/hope for the best. Hopefully our training staff can stay on top of his back otherwise Danny wouldn't have drafted him right? I remember his last game vs Kansas, a few times he scored on Robinson no problem then later Whitney and Robinson doubled him as much as possible and he didn't have enough help, playing with us he should have more help. Dwayne Wade and Harden had bad last college games too.

[cowens/oldschool]

......just heard a great comment from Greg Anthony on NBA TV he said what people don't realize is Boston has alot of skill all around the floor and these rookies don't have to do things that they can't do, just add their strengths, what they do well and not do what they can't and that will impact the team. All the guys are high on Sullinger saying we overanalyze and that Sully can pass, has midrange game, can drive, he knows how to use his size and has been a success at every level.

[Matty]

TJ Bob


Defensively he seems to have some good instincts, but in a system like ours and given his ability to learn and improve looks very promising, he MUST improve his rebounding period. Right now he is too soft there, he has to want every rebound but he has shown little fire in going about it, this is where an hour or 2 with KG will do one of 2 things, scare the living crap out of him, or make him wish he spend a little more time in that English class at SU (and perhaps even be back there) but there is another end to the court and that is a huge concern for me.

a session or two with KG will either help him tremendously OR.. leave him vey glad he never learned some of the english we americans sometimes refer to as "our french"..

[steve3344]

Ball Don't Lie also gives Celtics draft an A:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/ball-don-t-lie-grades-2012-nba-draft-180352269--nba.html;_ylt=Aih.fL5aEmwXD2WcGVP9uxi8vLYF

[gyso]

Okay, quiz time. Who is who?

Bonus points for why is the new #43 looks so glum? (lol)

[bobheckler]

Okay, quiz time. Who is who?

Bonus points for why is the new #43 looks so glum? (lol)

gyso,

Sully is going to wear Tiny Archibald's number? That's funny.

Obviously Melo isn't very superstitious or, at least, has different superstitions than many of us. Maybe he's like that slugger in the movie "Major League", the one into voodoo?

#43 is currently an available # in Maine.

bob


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[bobheckler]

Celtics introduce rookies at press conference. Saying all the right things, too. Some excerpts here, the complete article from ESPN Boston linked at bottom.

“Honestly, I don’t have any back problems, but it is what it is,” Sullinger said. “I’m just playing basketball now. I finally have a job, and now it’s time to take the next step and get ready to play.

Originally projected as a top 10 pick in this year’s draft before being red-flagged, Sullinger described the adversity of falling to No. 21 overall as reflective of his path in basketball up to this point.

“If you consider me landing to the Boston Celtics a drop, then I’d do it all over again, without a hesitation,” Sullinger said. “I mean, honestly, it’s been like that all my life. When I was younger, everybody said I was too big. Going into high school, they said I wouldn’t be able to play that fast, going into college, I wouldn’t be able to keep up. It’s just the way I live my life, obviously, so I’m just ready to get started.”

…

“I want to learn from him (KG),” Melo said. “He’s an energy guy. I have a lot of energy for the game, too. So, with my passion and his passion for the game, I think we’re going to do great things.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4695813/cs-unveil-rookies-sullinger-melo-joseph


bob

.

[beat]

I really don't think Melo has a clue what intensity/energy/passion he is about to see. One thing playing with a "chip" on your shoulder, quite another playing with the entire tree there.

Sort of wish there was a way to see the first session where KG doesn't feel he is listening or paying attention well enough.

beat

[bobheckler]

I really don't think Melo has a clue what intensity/energy/passion he is about to see. One thing playing with a "chip" on your shoulder, quite another playing with the entire tree there.

Sort of wish there was a way to see the first session where KG doesn't feel he is listening or paying attention well enough.

beat

beat,

Orlando summer league starts on 7/9. That's just 1 week away. Then we'll start to see just how lost Melo is. Granted, the quality will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower than he'll be facing during the season, but everybody is going to be playing for their professional lives. It'll be interesting to see how he responds.

It wouldn't hurt if KG made him cry occasionally anyway.

bob


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