LAKERS SEEKING BOSH IN TRADE!

babyskyhook wrote:

Kleen-


.........

As for collusion, etc. Give me a break. Red made a living, and built the Celtics' dynasty, by routinely fleecing the other teams in the league. It's one of the reasons why he is the greatest executive in league history. Do you want to go back and undo some of the beads-for-Manhattan deals that Red pulled off b/c they were so lopsided and pull down a couple of banners in the process ? I didn't think so.

.......

Kleen-

you never answered my question from the original post.

If you have such a hard time with the Gasol trade because it was so lopsided from a basketball perspective, how do you feel about all of Red's deals where he absolutely schooled people ?

Do you have a problem with his deal to get Russell ?

Or how about trading Henderson for the draft pick that was used to get Len Bias ?


Those deals were both incredibly lopsided. Do they bother you ?


Should we go back and do an investigation to see if there was any collusion involved ? Maybe Popovich can oversee the investigation ?


Seriously- are you bothered by any of those deals ? Or by Shaq to Cleveland ? VC to Orlando ?


Or is it only when the Lakers make a lopsided deal that you have a problem ?

Red is about as relevant to this discussion as the price of tea in China.

Might as well talk about the Louisiana Purchase as famously good deals.

I could not care less about the Lakers, Los Angeles, or where Chris Bosh goes. All I know is that MANY PEOPLE that know far more about basketball and you and I questioned the fairness of the Gasol to the Lakers trade. The fact that you don’t like the criticism doesn’t change the fact that it is out there.

In fact, you going at Gregg Popovich is even funnier. If you made a list of most respected people in the NBA – he would be at the top of the list by any measure. But leave it to a Lakers homer to try and discredit him.

As for VC to Orlando – Hedo’s numbers stack up VERY favorably with Vince….so don’t even see your point.

I am over this topic to be honest….time to move on.

Mrkleen

THIS is lopsided

[edit] Los Angeles Lakers (1968–1973)
On July 9, 1968, Chamberlain was the centerpiece of a major trade between the 76ers and the Los Angeles Lakers, who sent center Darrall Imhoff (the unfortunate ex-Knicks center who started against Chamberlain when latter scored 100 points), forward Jerry Chambers and guard Archie Clark to Philadelphia, making it the first time reigning NBA Most Valuable Player was traded the next season

beat

and as for BSK he is done on this in my book, his credibility is lower than the Titanic, esp. when he starts going back to Red or Russell or Bias.

OKAY, PLEASE LISTEN UP!

There are a lot of good points and valid debate in this thread. But, with my moderator's hat on, I sense a tipping point that was all too
common a problem at BDC. Any topic involving the Lakers would inevitably evolve into a Celtics-Lakers war, and the Celtics-Lakers war
would would escalate into a chippy personal war.

My initial pledge was that it wouldn't happen here, and I hereby request your assistance in making sure it doesn't. Everyone involved
on this thread is more than capable of making points with much less of an adversarial tone than I'm seeing in some (certainly not all) of
these posts. Frankly, I'm tempted to delete the more confrontational elements, but I'll leave them up NOT to inflame further but to allow
people to review them (if they wish) and hopefully cogitate about how the rancor could have been avoided.

I greatly respect every one of you, and I know you'll return the favor by registering your opinions without adding snippy little editorial
comments about posts or their authors. In case my meaning isn't absolutely clear, I'll make up my own example:

If I say "I have to disagree that this and that is so because black is black and white is white," that's one thing. I've simply stated an
opinion.

Suppose, instead, I say, "That's stupid. I have to disagree that this and that is so because black is black and white is white. Anyone who
can't see that just doesn't know basketball." Now I've turned a statement of opinion into what most rational people would consider a
double insult. I feel that kind of extra editorializing about posts or posters is the biggest single reason why wars start on message boards
because it makes things personal.

Please don't risk it. Please don't risk it. Please don't risk it. A temptation to place any kind of label on anything (either a post or a
poster) should represent a HUGE warning flag. That's one baby step removed from out-and-out name-calling.

And, while I'm at it, passive aggressiveness (of which there is evidence in this thread) can be just as inflammatory as outright name-calling. Just because a "dig" is intended to be subtle doesn't mean the recipient won't be hurt by it or the moderator will miss it.

That's all I'll say on the matter for now, but I want everyone to know this thread has attracted a very serious degree of interest on the
moderator's part.

If any of this makes no sense to someone, I'd be happy to discuss it. As you know, I may be reached by by either private message or email at SlipSamCelt@aol.com. But please don't bother to take up my time with apologies or explanations. I can read, and I definitely "get it," and I prefer to use my time to administer this board to the best of my ability. The reaction that means most is a disappearance of the problem without making a big deal of it.

Thanks for reading this and for taking it to heart. I value the participation of every one of you on this forum. GO CELTICS!

Sam

Now, having exhausted my moderator's vent, I've got my personal hat on.

I think that comparisons of the Lakers' situation with Red's involve two separate issues. Red did outsmart a lot of people, but it did not involve chicanery; it was a matter of being more discerning than they were in player evaluation, whether it involved trades or picking a player like Don Nelson off the waiver line or rehabbing supposedly washed-up players (Andy Phillip, Jack Nichols, Willie Naulls, Clyde Lovellette, Carl Braun, Arnie Risen, etc.). If the Lakers can be similarly more discerning than other teams, more power to them.

But I think some people are looking at it on another dimension—namely whether there is some sort of favoritism toward the Lakers by the league. I don't buy that theory any more than I buy conspiracy theories concerning draft results. I believe it's perfectly justifiable to compare the KG deal with the Pau Gasol deal. They were both coups at the times of the trades, and the league approved both of them. Period.

Because of all of the above, I really find it difficult to get caught up in any of the conjecture about the "fairness" of a potential trade involving (certainly among others) Bynum and Bosh. I'm far more interested in the implications for the Celtics' most consistent rival if such a trade eventuates. I'm not expressing opinions as much as asking questions. And I'm assuming no other players of consequence would change hands (although it would become a real coup for the Lakers if they also got a guy like Jack).

How would the advent of Bosh affect the chemistry of the Lakers? My assumption is that Odom would be pushed back to the bench. How would that sit with him? How would Bosh function in the triangle, and why? I think I read a post that suggested Bynum and Gasol aren't a good mix. Why is that true, and what guarantee is there that Bosh would be a better mix with Pau? Whose points would Bosh take (I assume it would be more than Bynum's), and what implications for friction might that have? I expect Bosh would be an offensive upgrade over Bynum, and I guess a rebounding upgrade to some degree; but what about defense? It seems to be that the Lakers felt they lost in 2008 largely because their defensive effort was not consistently strong enough. Would the substitution of Bosh for Bynum represent some backsliding in terms of defense? My sense is that a trade to more of a Showtime environment could lead Bosh to become somewhat more "self-absorbed" (for want of a better term). I happen to believe Kobe has mastered that trait already. Could there be an eventual power struggle between a self-absorbed guy at one end of his career and a self-absorbed guy at the other end of his career? Could Bosh become Shaq Redux as he relates to Kobe?

I freely admit that I'm probably far more interested in the importance of team chemistry than most people. And many of my questions relate to chemistry. I just happen to feel that, in order to have a chance to beat the Celtics head-to-head (if they're at full strength) head-to-head, an opponent has to exhibit a high level of chemistry. This is why I root for Kobe to dominate the Lakers' attack every time they play the Celtics.

Sam

For what it's worth;

For the sake of fans like skyhook, who seems to be a good guy and loyal, knowledgeable fan, I hope the Lakers can pull off a deal for Bosh. Bosh and Kobe on the floor with whoever is left after that trade would probably make for one incredible and fun to watch team. You could play one of the Laker Girls at the point and win.

I would then be rooting for the Celtics to demolish that incredible team in the finals. What improves a rival team doesn't diminish my team; it just presents a bigger and more thrilling target.

Sam; you're on the money as usual in that there's no conspiracy to look for in past deals. The KG deal is a more than fair comparison. I've got no problem with the way the Lakers got Gasol either. I hope we can continue to make smart deals ourselves.

On to the next topic please.

Bump.


FWIW:


Sources: Bosh gives Raptors wish list

CHICAGO -- Chris Bosh's agent has told the Toronto Raptors that he's narrowed his list of preferred teams to five, two sources told ESPN.com's Chad Ford at the NBA draft camp.

The list of five teams -- Toronto plus the Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat and New York Knicks, sources said -- were given to Toronto management in case the Raptors want to construct a sign-and-trade deal (assuming he doesn't re-sign with Toronto).

Bosh likes that option, sources told Ford, because he'd get one more year on his contract and could make more money.

Sources said the Raptors prefer a sign-and-trade if Bosh is intent on leaving as well. They likely would want a big man to replace the 6-10, 230-pound Bosh in the lineup.

One source said Bosh's decision hinges on where LeBron James signs.

"If LeBron decides to go to either New York or Chicago, I think that's where you'll see Chris land," the source told Ford. "If LeBron stays in Cleveland, I think the process is more wide open."

Bosh, 26, is an unrestricted free agent. He averaged 24 points per game last season and has averaged 20.2 points per game for his career.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5208043

If Lebron stays in Cleveland or goes to Miami, I think Bosh ends up in LA.

Straight up deal for Bynum.

Although LA will try to get Jarrett JAck for Sasha's expiring while they're at it, I doubt the Raps would go there.

Sky

Do you like the deal if it happens. i think it works against some teams but hurts against others. You get thinner and wiry er (not a word) you get more athletic but less imposing. I think Bynum's upside is limetless but he cant stay healthy. Bosh is much older.

babyskyhook wrote:If Lebron stays in Cleveland or goes to Miami, I think Bosh ends up in LA.

Straight up deal for Bynum.

Although LA will try to get Jarrett JAck for Sasha's expiring while they're at it, I doubt the Raps would go there.

Trading Bosh for Bynum straight up is like trading a Mercedes for a broken down Chevy. Anyone in Toronto that even CONSIDERS that deal should be fired and sent directly to a padded cell.

mrkleen09 wrote:

babyskyhook wrote:If Lebron stays in Cleveland or goes to Miami, I think Bosh ends up in LA.

Straight up deal for Bynum.

Although LA will try to get Jarrett JAck for Sasha's expiring while they're at it, I doubt the Raps would go there.

Trading Bosh for Bynum straight up is like trading a Mercedes for a broken down Chevy. Anyone in Toronto that even CONSIDERS that deal should be fired and sent directly to a padded cell.

MrKleen,

I agree. They have Nesterovic, who is doing a good job for them, and Bynum is quite injury-prone despite not even being close to middle-aged by NBA standards.

On the other hand, if the alternative is losing Bosh and getting NOTHING in return, they might do the deal and then look to trade Bynum or Nesterovic for a puzzle piece they could use.

bob

.

hey gyso I know the cap is your specialty,but hows Semih Erdin doing?is his game improving at all?does anyone know?

Results of a Yahoo search; Semih Erden 2010

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=ulk&pcode=JYB

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Semih-Erden-210/

http://tinyurl.com/2upcg4f

http://tinyurl.com/335yfpk

http://www.antoloji.com/semih-erden/siirleri/



http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/Better_Know_The_60th_Pick_Semih_Erden/283606

http://www.barstoolsports.com/randomthoughts/2008/06/27/meet_newest_celtics/


It's funny, his height fluctuates from 6'-11" to 7'-1" in many of the sites I found. His weight was listed more consistently at 240 pounds.

gyso

mrkleen,

Most people feel it is better for Toronto to trade for Bynum or another young player then to let Bosh walk away and get nothing.


bobh,

Bargnani is Toronto's center, not Nesterovic. Nesterovic plays less then 10 min/game, usually in garbage time. His contract expired at the end of the season.

tjmakz wrote:mrkleen,

Most people feel it is better for Toronto to trade for Bynum or another young player then to let Bosh walk away and get nothing.

This is just wishful thinking from Lakers fans. Bosh is going to the same city as Lebron....and LA WILL NOT get Lebron. Sorry TJ.

mrkleen,

You have no idea where Bosh is going and neither do I.
I doubt LA gets LeBron but apparently LA is one of the 5 teams Bosh wants to be traded to.
I would take Bosh over Bynum.

Tj

exactly why? I am interested in your reasons. I think Bosh makes you more athletic but less imposing across your front line. As a Celtic fan I would fear your team less. I'm not a big Bosh guy.

tjmakz wrote:I would take Bosh over Bynum.

There are 30 teams in the NBA that would agree with you. Including Bynum's current employer.

jeb,

It's way late after getting 5 hours of sleep/night all week, so I will give detailed reasons tomorrow.
It all depends on what order they sign or trade for players this summer.
1) Do they try to get a top 5 free agent via a trade for Bynum/others?
2) Do they get a top 5 or 10 pg first?
3) Do they take the easier route first and offer a contract to a great shooter such as Reddick or Kyle Korver?

Talk tomorrow...

gyso wrote:Results of a Yahoo search; Semih Erden 2010

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=ulk&pcode=JYB

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Semih-Erden-210/

http://tinyurl.com/2upcg4f

http://tinyurl.com/335yfpk

http://www.antoloji.com/semih-erden/siirleri/



http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/Better_Know_The_60th_Pick_Semih_Erden/283606

http://www.barstoolsports.com/randomthoughts/2008/06/27/meet_newest_celtics/


It's funny, his height fluctuates from 6'-11" to 7'-1" in many of the sites I found. His weight was listed more consistently at 240 pounds.

gyso

thaks gyso

gyso wrote:Results of a Yahoo search; Semih Erden 2010

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?clubcode=ulk&pcode=JYB

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Semih-Erden-210/

http://tinyurl.com/2upcg4f

http://tinyurl.com/335yfpk

http://www.antoloji.com/semih-erden/siirleri/



http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/Better_Know_The_60th_Pick_Semih_Erden/283606

http://www.barstoolsports.com/randomthoughts/2008/06/27/meet_newest_celtics/


It's funny, his height fluctuates from 6'-11" to 7'-1" in many of the sites I found. His weight was listed more consistently at 240 pounds.

gyso

Hey gyso,

Do you think Toronto would do a sign-and-trade Bosh for Erden?

LOL.

bob

.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Al is a PF playing out of position at the 5,Al is a much better PF than Gasol is as a C.Bynum if he can stay healthy can be a serious force and playing with Bargnani as a 4 could actually be a better fit than Bosh-Bargnani,especially defensively.Bosh has a game similar to Pau Gasol with more mobility,however he can't stop anyone,just as I would prefer Perk-KG over Bosh-KG,even though Bosh is statistically the better player doesn't mean hes a better fit.....Bosh-Pau really dosen't scare me.

cow,

You're absolutely right about Al. He's a 4 playing 5, so his effectiveness will be down versus other 5s.

bob

.

tjmakz wrote:mrkleen,

Most people feel it is better for Toronto to trade for Bynum or another young player then to let Bosh walk away and get nothing.


bobh,

Bargnani is Toronto's center, not Nesterovic. Nesterovic plays less then 10 min/game, usually in garbage time. His contract expired at the end of the season.

TJ,

You are quite correct. Bargnani is their center. I reversed them.

bob

.

mrkleen09 wrote:

tjmakz wrote:mrkleen,

Most people feel it is better for Toronto to trade for Bynum or another young player then to let Bosh walk away and get nothing.

This is just wishful thinking from Lakers fans. Bosh is going to the same city as Lebron....and LA WILL NOT get Lebron. Sorry TJ.

From last week's chat w/ Chad Ford.


J (Milwaukee):


Anyone in the Lakers front office get excited when they were on Bosh's list?


Chad Ford:

No, because they knew about this in February. The Raptors and Lakers had the parameters of a deal in place for a Bosh for Bynum deal. LA eventually pulled out because they were unsure how the addition of Bosh would affect chemistry mid-season and they were concerned that Bosh could bolt via free agency in the summer. Both concerns should go away this summer and the two teams agreed to revisit talks after the playoffs ended. They are in a very good position to land Bosh if that's where he wants to play. It's the Raptors first choice among the sign-and-trade options available to them.



From hoopsworld:

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:20 pm Post subject: Final destination...say what
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16309

Bynum and the Raptors?

The drama unfolding between the Toronto Raptors and Chris Bosh is really starting to get interesting. Late last week we had the leaking of the "Chris Bosh Wish List," which both sides are now downplaying. Was it Bosh's camp trying to pique the interest of the teams in question, or GM Bryan Colangelo wanting to make sure fans in Toronto knew what kind of treatment he was getting from the Bosh camp? Or was it both? Either way, it's clear things aren't going well, and sources close to the situation have told HOOPSWORLD that Bosh isn't at all interested in staying in Toronto.

Of course, the top team on Bosh's list (or the list attributed to Bosh) was the Lakers, and it's easy to make that connection. Lakers head coach Phil Jackson has never been a big fan of Andrew Bynum, and his name has come up more than a few times in trade rumors. The Raptors could put Bynum at center and move Andrea Bargnani over to the four and have mismatches like the Mavs create with Dirk Nowitzki.

A source with knowledge of the situation told HOOPSWORLD's Travis Heath recently that they believe Los Angeles is, indeed, Bosh's final destination, and that the other names on his list - including the Raptors - were just window dressing.



I also remember Bill Simmons talking in a podcast 3-4 weeks ago with Marc Stein saying that he had heard from a reliable source that "Bosh for Bynum is a done deal. The teams are just waiting until the summer to announce it."


All of this may be true. None of it may be true. But at a certain point, where there's smoke there's fire. I don't know if it's quite there yet, but it's certainly more than wishful thinking from Laker fans.


Why does this not die if it's just rumors ? Because it makes too much sense for both teams.

For Toronto, Bynum is 22 and a perfect fit next to bargnani. He provides them with the potential of having a very solid front line.

They're protected on the downside since he only has 2 more guarenteed years and with a team option for the third year.

Toronto will be all over Bynum for Bosh straight up. We haven't heard about anything else even remotely close to filling their needs.

NY- David Lee undersized and doesn't play D. Bad to pair with Bargs.

Miami- Beasley. No way.

Chi- BUlls not giving up Noah. Raps not taking Deng and Gibson over Bynum. Too many $$$$ tied up in Turk and Bargs, who is really a 4.


That's it. Those are the places on Bosh's list. He gets to choose where he's going. Raps want to get best asset back. Bynum is that asset.


Bynum's promise, even with his injuries, and thankfully this latest one is a minor injury, is going to be too good for the Raps to pass up, based on what their team needs.

Lee is a bad fit, Beasley is a joke, and the Bulls aren't dealing Noah.

So there is a risk for the Raps, if BYnum flames out due to some kind of career-ending injury in two years.

ON the other hand, if he can stay healthy, we know what he's capable of when he's the focus of an offense, so they have the potential for getting even value back for a superstar, which as you know almost never happens in any sport.

The promise of Bynum's upside combined with their team needs add up to make Bynum their most attractive option.

The question is whether the lakers are going to be willing to do it. Most Laker fans want to see it happen, but a solid minority, maybe 25-30%, want to keep Bynum for his upside. I strongly disagree with this, and I hope Buss does also.

I think the Lakers have a great shot at ultimately getting him. Unless he and LBJ team up to go to the Knicks, I think Bosh ends up in LA.

bsh,

I also think there is a decent chance that Bosh is traded to L.A.
Free agents can make millions more via sign and trade compared to signing as a free agent.
Toronto is already over the salary cap for next year even without Bosh's contract, so they will not be able to sign any significant players this summer.
Bargnani is really a power forward, so Bynum could be a good fit for them. Bynum only has 2 years / $29m left on his contract (3rd year is a team option), so this is not a huge risk for Toronto.