Tyler Zeller to the C's

Bob, you know I'm with you on your mini-rant about highlights focusing almost only on offense. Now you can add rainforests to a topic we can discuss when we get together.

I wish I could open International's videos.

Sam

sam wrote:Bob, you know I'm with you on your mini-rant about highlights focusing almost only on offense.  Now you can add rainforests to a topic we can discuss when we get together.

I wish I could open International's videos.

Sam

sam,


Looking into it a little further (I'm always happy to do additional research on rainforests and jungle) I see that Yunque National Park on Puerto Rico is one of the relatively few rainforests that one can drive through.  Usually there's some walking/hiking/boating involved.  In fact, a lot parks with rainforests will forbid wheeled vehicles for the express purpose of preserving the rainforest.  If one is not up for the physical activity or if one is pressed for time but still want to see the rainforest, a car is a handy dandy tool to be able to use.

There is even a hotel/lodge in the Park.  It's 1:15 drive from San Juan, so it's a day trip OR it's more time in the park and then spend the night and relax with an easy trip to the next destination the next day.


bob



.

International, First, I didn't know you were in Puerto Rico. Early next year, probably the second week of February, my wife, son and I plan to be there for a week to visit relatives, and love to meet you then. Second, I agree with a lot of what you have posted, not completely about Vitor, but about the team's mindset in the 2013-14 season, which I think was NOT TO WIN at all costs, but to play for the future by offering experience to young players and showcase others. Vitor, I think, suffered as a result and didn't play in situations when he would have been our best man at the 5. That said, when he did play, he sometimes disappointed me by not plugging the middle the way we needed to.
Could he improve? Of course. Same for Iverson, Zeller, etc. Let the best man start, second-best back him up, etc. You're right, as Beat also noted, that there has been a longheld belief among American bball fans that Euros are soft, but those days are winding down because they don't stand up to the evidence. Europeans used to be smaller than American's on average, but with the deficiencies in our healthcare system and nutritional gap, Americans are not the biggest, fittest people on the planet anymore and sports performances ultimately will follow general population trends.
That all may be off-topic, but let me join others who've said, please continue to offer your insights. INHO, there is no better sports forum than this one, and we can't afford to lose you. Hawk

Check this out...........


On opening day of the 1991–92 season, NBA rosters included 23 international players from 18 countries.[6] At the start of the 2013–14 season, there were 92 players from 39 countries and territories.

from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_NBA_players

beat

Bob,

Our friends stayed at that Lodge and raved about it, although they were shocked to find such relative opulence out of the city.  They also told us about driving through the rainforest, nearly to the top.  That really appeals to the two of us, since we're both walking-challenged.

Sam

International players now out number white USA players. This past season there were 244 players that played 1100 or more minutes. 1100 minutes places a player in about the top 8 players on a roster.
Of those 240 players
26 were white Americans
35 were Internationals

Of those 244 players 128 were under 6'8' - the speed, quickness positions.
of those 128 players
7 were white Americans
9 were Internationals
Compare those numbers to Russell's first year in the league (1956-57)
Total players 64
57 white Americans
0 Internationals
Under 6'8' - 49 players
45 white Americans
0 Internationals

In the under 6'8' category the White American player is nearing extinction.

swish

Very interesting stats, Swish. As usual, you've done your homework. I'm always very uncomfortable discussing stats with even faint racial overtones. Here's to a time when white or black American players will not be distinguished from white or black international players. And, further, the time when American players will not be distinguished from international players.

Sam

Sam

I'm a white, USA born, American. Because I'm not color blind I don't hesitate to comment on issues that involve what many may consider to be racial in nature. And what I see in various colors in the sports world is a level of excellence that seems to have, in some cases, a racial bias. When I watch track events I see blacks dominating the sprints. In football its blacks dominating the running and defensive backs and wide receivers. And of course in basketball its more of the same at the speed and quick positions.
Some experts think the difference is social in nature while others believe its a genetic issue. Who knows which is right. But it sure does exist. Is there a better way to point out this statistical abnormally without making it a black -- non black discussion. I'm open to suggestions.

swish

This week Croacia presented a list of 24 players to select 12 for the Fiba World Championship and 16 out of 24 are 6-8 or taller ,including a 7-2 and a 7-3 .Dario Saric is on the list.Spain will have the Gasol Brothers and Serge Ibaka.France with Kevin Seraphine and 7-2 Rudy Gobbert and Brasil with Nene,Varejao ,Splitter and Lucas Nogueira a seven footer.Even my country will have 5 players 6-11 or taller.

swish wrote:Sam

I'm a white, USA born, American. Because I'm not color blind I don't hesitate to comment on issues that involve what many  may consider to be racial in nature. And what I see in various colors in the sports world is a level of excellence that seems to have, in some cases, a racial bias. When I watch track events I see blacks dominating the sprints. In football its blacks dominating the running and defensive backs and wide receivers. And of course in basketball its more of the same at the speed and quick positions.
Some experts think the difference is social in nature while others believe its a genetic issue. Who knows which is right. But it sure does exist. Is there a better way to point out this statistical abnormally without making it a black -- non black discussion. I'm open to suggestions.

swish  

I believe there has to something genetic. And from another view, look at the success of the Kenyan and Ethiopia distance runners over the years. Growing up at altitude definitely gives them an advantage over sea level athletes. Jim Ryun the best American distance runner of his day and world record holder in the mile faltered badly to Kip Keino at the 68 Mexico City Olympics 1500, in large part due to the elevation, for just a few months later he beat him badly at another meet held at the LA Colosseum. I ran in HS and college and Ryun was a childhood hero of mine. And he was the first HS runner to break 4 minutes in the mile too and to this day, with all the current improvements and training ect, the list of high schoolers that have accomplished this feat can all be counted on one hand (5).

beat

Swish,

My remark was in no way a criticism of yours. It was more of a commentary about the fact that there are certain topics that seem predisposed to morphing into discussions on race. One cannot legislate the ways in which others will interpret what one posts. As you, yourself, said, "...many may consider (such comments) to be racial in nature."

As an American-born white American father of two white children and one black child (now in his late forties), I have never really understood why the color of a person's skin is an important distinction in any conversation, including those on basketball.

I'm not trying to sanction such discussions or influence others, especially on this board. But I am asserting my right to mention my personal slant on things. When I said "I'm always uncomfortable...," the "I" part referred to me and only to me.

I'm not trying to suggest an alternative way to report the statistical anomaly. I guess I was more interested in why the racial aspect of the statistical abnormality was noteworthy, given the topic at hand. I felt the salient news involved changing percentages of international players versus percentages of American-born players in the NBA. I didn't know (and still don't) how the singling out of white American players added to the analysis.

I'm sorry if I offended you in a post in which my primary objective was to compliment you on doing your homework. I found the portion about changes in percentages of international players in the NBA (over the years) to be of great interest and, I hope, a source of encouragement for our friend, International, in Puerto Rico.

Sam

I use the Olympics all the time as a measuring stick to document generational differences in performances but I never use the 68 Olympics because of some of the crazy numbers that were put up in Mexico City. Altitude can raise hell with performances. I never participated in track and field but I have always enjoyed it as a spectator. What were your specialties?
swish

Sam
Not for a mini second did I consider your comments as a criticism. My comments were simply to state my view on the subject.

swish

Swish.  My feelings exactly.

Not to horn in on your Olympics conversation, but I can never hear or read the word "Olympics" without thinking of an underdog whom I consider one of the greatest Olympians of all time.  His name is Billy Mills of the U.S., and he wasn't considered among the favorites in a field led by the great Ron Clarke.  But Billy astonishingly hung in there when he was pushed off-balance by Clarke and another runner named something like Ghamoudi at the 27:34 near the end of the race.  See the push and the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5iCsymMj0

Double-click on the video to zoom.

I am proud to own a "Running Brave" t-shirt that references his Native American heritage and the organization he formed on behalf of his people.  The t-shirt no longer fits, but the inspiration I've always taken from Billy Mills is a perfect fit.

Sam

Sam

Lt. Billy Mills.   Memories for the ages. And here's another great Olympic moment. Dave Wottle's  800 meter win- Golf cap and all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LHid-nC45k

swish

More great memories. Who could forget that golf cap and the stirring finish?

I had the good fortune to meet Jim Thorpe at a Sportsmen's and Boat Show in Boston. I went backstage in hopes of meeting Ted Williams, who put on a fly casting exhibition. I did meet Ted, but the bonus was meeting Thorpe, although he was in terrible shape. He was playing cards with Al Schact, the so-called "Clown Prince of Baseball," and he (Jim) could barely see the cards. Nonetheless, it was a thrill for me to touch greatness and wish him all the best.

Sam

Jim Thorpe and the Carlisle Indian School. I must have read every book that was ever written about Thorpe back in the 1940's.

swish

Swish

I ran cross country and track. Made states in cross country but didn't do especially well there. (finished in the vast middle somewhere. In track ran anything from 880 to the 2 mile ( we had not gone metric yet) Also did the long and triple jump. Best 880 was 2:10, Mile was 4:50 and 2 mile was a believe 10:45. Think they were all on the old cinder tracks too. In the Long jump never made it to 20' but got 19'10". Triple was somewhere about 39'.

I really loved cross country more than track as running in fields and woods was a heck of a lot more fun than running in a circle.

beat

PS the Mills race was a classic

and yes about Mexico City it took over 25 years for someone to break Bob Beamon's long jump record. And I believe he broke the previous record by over 1 1/2 feet. I remember the story after he jumped that the sliding scale they used to measure the jump could not be extended far enough to measure it and they had to find an old fashioned tape measure. If you ever recall the photo of Beamon when he realizes how far he jumped he had already put his sweat bottoms on.

beat

Back in my High School days in the 40's most of the smaller schools didn't even have a track team. We had one meet at the end of the school year.( we had the only track and it was cinder). A bunch of guys would get together for informal practices and that was it. Sports, with the possible exception of baseball, have come a long way since the 40's. Now track is a huge part of most High School programs. Now you can sit back and recall your jaunts over hills and over vales.

swish

swish wrote:beat

Back in my High School days in the 40's most of the smaller schools didn't even have a track team. We had one meet at the end of the school year.( we had the only track and it was cinder). A bunch of guys would get together for informal practices and that was it. Sports, with the possible exception of baseball, have come a long way since the 40's. Now track is a huge part of most High School programs. Now you can sit back and recall your jaunts over hills and over vales.

swish

Our Track program in HS has sort of leveled off a lot. We are not a big school. When I graduated we had a class of 125. Now the school graduates about 150ish. When I ran we only had a baseball team to compete with. Now we have lacrosse which takes a lot of kids.

Our school has had some really great runners jumpers and throwers. Our school record board is as good as most small D-3 colleges if not better.

Of course to me this was because of one man the coach for many years Bill Arthur. Think we would all run through a wall for him.

Some of our schools best records

9.6 100 yard dash
21.2...220/200
sub 49, 400m
1:55:1, 800m
4:18, mile/1600m
9:06, 3200m
sub 17sec 110 hurdles
23+ long jump
44+ triple jump
and one of the best I ever saw was our 4X100 that ran a 41.2 second relay on a cinder track. A sectional record that lasted for several years.

And over the past 10-15 years the girls track team has done pretty good now with a smattering of really good times. One girl got a full ride to Boston College and ran pretty well there too. Believe she graduated 2-3 years ago from BC (Nicole Lister)

Running has always been a big part of my life even today I follow the team and go to many of there meets and take photos. At the end of the year I burn them to a CD and give one to all the kids. I'm sure some day they will drag it out and look at it.

Last year I even had the honor of having my photos on the cover of the sectional program.



Cross country is such a great sport. No time outs, no half time, NO SUBS. It's just you and your opponent and nature. It's just great being a small part of it and being able to share their successes and failures.

beat

beat
All my life I've been a sports nut( ALL sports). You obviously had a very happy and successful track career. School pride just never goes away.

swish