Tyler Zeller to the C's

ANOTHER JOURNEYMAN STIFF. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.  I'LL BE VERY DISAPPOINTED IF THIS IS NOT PART OF A BIGGER DEAL THIS YEAR.

 DO YOU HEAR ME BOSTON.......I'M TALKING TO YOU SWEETHEART........ HELLO NBA LOTTERY & PING PONG BALLS 2015! 

112288

From Celticsblog:


Cleveland will send to Boston their 2016 first round pick, which is top ten protected in 2016, 2017, and 2018, and then unprotected in 2019. However, if Cleveland acquire LeBron, it's likely they will convey the pick in 2016, which would give the Celtics three first rounders that year. Acquiring pieces like this is exactly why Boston wanted to position themselves to react to opportunities that may arise, as the organization continues building assets to position themselves for even bigger acquisitions over the next few years.



David Aldridge        ✔ @daldridgetnt
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Meanwhile, Boston gets significant assets in Zeller, Thornton, future 1st, to take a swing at Love--if CLE doesn't beat them to it.
7:54 AM - 9 Jul 2014



bob
MY NOTE:  I do not understand the Celticsblog excerpt.  How many firsts are we getting?  They're making it sound like we've got this rolling type of selection and I'm sure it's not that.

Zeller is a young player, only 24 years old, and was in Cleveland which, to put it nicely, is a chaotic environment.  If development is what he needs, and it is, then he couldn't have come to a better team.


Zeller's shot chart.  He is heavily invested around the rim.  I do, truly truly do, like that in a big.







.

Shot charts, courtesy of Kirk Goldsberry of Grantland:






bob



.

2 years ago against us !!

https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FCcqk87cBs7M&h=2AQHeVvuy

beat

Beat -- the link didn't work for me.

Outside wrote:Beat -- the link didn't work for me.

seems to work fine for me .....here it is again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccqk87cBs7M&feature=youtu.be

Beat,

Thanks, it worked that time.

What I see is a legit 7-footer, a guy you could actually call an NBA center. I wish they'd shown more on defense, but he's pretty mobile, so that shouldn't be an issue. What I saw was a lot of mid-range shots (meh in a center) against a lot of non-existent defense. If you leave a guy who can actually shoot alone in a gym, he can score 20 points, which is basically what the Celtics seemed to be doing in that video -- leaving him alone to shoot.

Like I said, I'm cautiously optimistic. Filling the center position with an actual center should have a positive ripple effect in multiple ways on both ends.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2014/07/after_3-team_trade_celtics_now_have_an_incredible_number_of.html

Displaying all our future picks now in an easy to digest way with explanations.

I'll go ahead and give Danny a round of applause for this temporary stop-gap measure.

All jokes aside, solid pick up.


KJ

Thornton - $8.697M
Zeller -      $1.70M
Total -      $10.4M

The $10.3M Traded Player Exception (TPE) we got from Brooklyn for Paul Pierce would have expired Saturday.  The difference between $10.4M in salaries coming in and the $10.3M TPE going out (the +/- 25% doesn't apply with TPEs, only player-for-player trades) was made up for by Danny giving up a 2nd round pick.

So, we get a young, legit 7'er for cheap, an $8.7M contract that expires next year and a 1st round pick for, what amounts to, a 2nd round pick.

Not only is it tough to argue with that kind of a lop-sided deal, for us, it's a damn coup.  You could not have maximized the full $10.3M TPE any better if you had a shoe-horn.

From Cleveland's  perspective, if they are confident they can get LBJ, this was a great move for them.

For Brooklyn, they got the best players in the deal.  Jarrett Jack is probably the #1 best backup point guard in the league and Karasev, while he struggled last year, is a sharpshooter.

I would have much preferred Asik or Gortat but, thanks to Daryl Morey and Gortat (who never really was coming here anyway) I declare myself content with this deal.



bob


.

Is this a blockbuster.......NO but.

First how many really GOOD centers are out there to begin with?

Of those how many GM's are willing to part with them?

Who knows what DA has tried to do but in order to do anything we need a partner.

We can be pretty big up front. Zeller, Sully and put Kelly at the 3. No he can't guard the 3 well but what 3 can guard him? Might work for short periods.

And another thing

to say Philly has no chance in the playoffs is very questionable. Having watched a couple of their summer games with Nerlins Noel..........I think they stand a good chance of getting in. East is not really strong and if they do there is another first round pick.

beat

beat wrote:Is this a blockbuster.......NO but.

First how many really GOOD centers are out there to begin with?

Of those how many GM's are willing to part with them?

Who knows what DA has tried to do but in order to do anything we need a partner.

We can be pretty big up front. Zeller, Sully and put Kelly at the 3. No he can't guard the 3 well but what 3 can guard him? Might work for short periods.

And another thing

to say Philly has no chance in the playoffs is very questionable. Having watched a couple of their summer games with Nerlins Noel..........I think they stand a good chance of getting in. East is not really strong and if they do there is another first round pick.

beat

beat,


Noels looks good so far, but it is summer league.

The east sucks, so "anything is possible".

If Philly sneaks into the playoffs then we'll have 9 first round picks over the next 4 years. If not, then we'll only have 8 and two additional 2nd round picks. Poor us.



bob



.

Beat,

The Sixers might tank again this year to have yet another lottery pick. I wouldn't put it past the 26ers.


KJ

One could view this deal, using the TPE, as the final curtain call on the blockbuster trade with Brooklyn last year.

Let's sum it all up:

We gave up Pierce, KG and Jason Terry and we gave up a 2nd round pick in this deal.  JET is gone, Pierce and KG are undecided.  Presumably KG will be back because he has another year left on his contract but Pierce is UFA.

Boston got (via a few circumlocutions) Joel Anthony (for Brooks and Crawford, who was himself acquired for Barbosa who was out with an ACL and Collins; players who weren't playing and were signed as free agents, so we gave up nothing to get either of them), James Young (Brooklyn's 1st round pick in 2014), Brooklyn's 1st round picks in 2016 and 2018, the right to swap picks with Brooklyn in 2017 and Cleveland's 1st round pick in 2015, Tyler Zeller, Marcus Thornton (who actually went to Brooklyn from Sacto in the JET trade) and either Philly's 2015 1st round or two 2nd rounders from Philly.

Pierce and KG and Collins and Barbosa (inactive) and a second round pick for Anthony, Thornton, Zeller, James Young, 4 first round picks (or 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks) and the right to swap positions with Brooklyn in 2017 (so, if we're going up and they're going down, we gain in position in the draft...).  And this doesn't even take into account the first round pick we got for Doc (which happened because Danny traded Pierce and KG and Doc didn't want to stick around for a rebuild).

This is a no risk deal for us.  We gave up no players.  We gained a player who will be gone in 1 year.  We gain a young center who, even if he is and stays a journeyman, he's cheap and a legit backup center.  We gain another first round pick.  We lose a 2nd round pick, only a small percentage of whom ever stick in the NBA.



bob



.

No brainer, good move for us regardless of whether its part of something bigger.

And this was a deal Danny did under pressure of a very tight timeline. Get er done by Saturday or the $10.3M exemption is GONE! Damn good bargaining if you ask me.

OR RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

OR WINNER BY DEFAULT 'CAUSE NO ONE ELSE HAD THE EXEMPTION.

I KNOW PEOPLE ARE GRADING THIS AS AN "A" AND ON PAPER IT DID WORK OUT BUT WHAT DID WE RECEIVE BUT A CENTER WHO IS MARGINAL AS TALENT GOES SO FAR............HOPING HE GET BETTER PLAYING FULL TIME.

IT ALSO HURTS IVERSON'S CHANCES OF STICKING WITH THE TEAM. VF ALONG WITH ANTHONY ARE YOUR BACK-UP CENTERS.............YUCK!

DANNY NEEDS TO DIG DOWN AND GET GREEN AND WALACE'S CONTRACT OUTA HERE BEFORE I BEGIN TO SEE THE LIGHT. GREEN WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A MONSTER YEAR BEFORE HE SAYS I'M OUTA HERE TO THE CELTICS...OTHERWISE WE A STUCK WITH HIM NEXT YEAR AS WELL.

GOING TO BE A VERY LONG WINTER.....................I CAN FEEL THE AUTUMN CHILL ALREADY.............................REMINDS ME................GOTTA GO AND HEAT-UP SOME NICE BRANDY..........PUMPKIN PICKING TIME YET?
 

112288

112288,

Not sure what's wrong with Green's contract...

For a decent SF, he isn't that big of a burden to the cap. He's probably a better all-around player than Wallace, but Wallace makes $2M more per year and is older.



KJ

KJ

Green is a one dimensional offensive player who cannot create a shot on his own like Pierce. He is also just average on defense.

Every basketball guy will tell you that.  For $9M plus.........I rather use that money elsewhere.

Agree with Wallace take................the GM who signed Wallace to that contract had to be on serious dope or at the very least drunk at the time.

112288

we might not like it, but right now our top big men (forget center and power forward positions, they don't matter in todays NBA) are:

Sully
Bass
Kelly
Zeller

in that order.

Stephens will play the best players the most minutes., regardless of what position we think they should play.

how about for now we just all agree that the Celtics lineup is more like

PF
PF
SF
G
PG

Hi,
Our front line:
Sully - Kelly - Zelly -and- Baaaaaassss
Not bad  

AK

112288 wrote:OR RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

OR WINNER BY DEFAULT 'CAUSE NO ONE ELSE HAD THE EXEMPTION.

I KNOW PEOPLE ARE GRADING THIS AS AN "A" AND ON PAPER IT DID WORK OUT BUT WHAT DID WE RECEIVE BUT A CENTER WHO IS MARGINAL AS TALENT GOES SO FAR............HOPING HE GET BETTER PLAYING FULL TIME.

IT ALSO HURTS IVERSON'S CHANCES OF STICKING WITH THE TEAM. VF ALONG WITH ANTHONY ARE YOUR BACK-UP CENTERS.............YUCK!

DANNY NEEDS TO DIG DOWN AND GET GREEN AND WALACE'S CONTRACT OUTA HERE BEFORE I BEGIN TO SEE THE LIGHT. GREEN WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A MONSTER YEAR BEFORE HE SAYS I'M OUTA HERE TO THE CELTICS...OTHERWISE WE A STUCK WITH HIM NEXT YEAR AS WELL.

GOING TO BE A VERY LONG WINTER.....................I CAN FEEL THE AUTUMN CHILL ALREADY.............................REMINDS ME................GOTTA GO AND HEAT-UP SOME NICE BRANDY..........PUMPKIN PICKING TIME YET?
 

112288

So tell me, where could have we have got a center of quality from who and how? Takes 2 to deal.

beat

112288 wrote:OR RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

OR WINNER BY DEFAULT 'CAUSE NO ONE ELSE HAD THE EXEMPTION.

I KNOW PEOPLE ARE GRADING THIS AS AN "A" AND ON PAPER IT DID WORK OUT BUT WHAT DID WE RECEIVE BUT A CENTER WHO IS MARGINAL AS TALENT GOES SO FAR............HOPING HE GET BETTER PLAYING FULL TIME.

IT ALSO HURTS IVERSON'S CHANCES OF STICKING WITH THE TEAM. VF ALONG WITH ANTHONY ARE YOUR BACK-UP CENTERS.............YUCK!

DANNY NEEDS TO DIG DOWN AND GET GREEN AND WALACE'S CONTRACT OUTA HERE BEFORE I BEGIN TO SEE THE LIGHT. GREEN WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A MONSTER YEAR BEFORE HE SAYS I'M OUTA HERE TO THE CELTICS...OTHERWISE WE A STUCK WITH HIM NEXT YEAR AS WELL.

GOING TO BE A VERY LONG WINTER.....................I CAN FEEL THE AUTUMN CHILL ALREADY.............................REMINDS ME................GOTTA GO AND HEAT-UP SOME NICE BRANDY..........PUMPKIN PICKING TIME YET?
 

112288

112288,

Luck is the residue of design.  Danny didn't "just happen" to have that exemption, he didn't inherit it from his father or have it awarded to him by the league, he negotiated for it last year.  He knew it was going to expire on Friday and just sat there, like a cat watching a bowl of goldfish, and waited until other GM's hard work started to crystallize and then what he set up last year became valuable.  Everybody knows who has exemptions, how big they are and when they expire, it's published information.  Everybody knew Danny had it, they just didn't need it until they needed it.  When LeBron gave indications he might go back to Cleveland, Dan Gilbert needed to clear cap space.  Thus, the value of working with someone who could absorb a lot of salary without having to give salary back.  Unless you're Mikhail Prokhorov and are hemorrhaging luxury tax or Sam Hinkie deliberately putting his team into a power dive you'd can't convince someone to do a massive salary dump for no reason and the only team I can think of that would trade a legit starting NBA center strictly for salary relief might be Brooklyn and that's not only because of the luxury tax but because Brook Lopez now has a history of bad feet keeping him off the floor, so he's somewhat damaged goods.  

List the legit starting centers in the NBA and tell me which one you think should have been had for a salary dump?  There's a reason why there is no center position offered on the all-star ballot, it's because there aren't many of them.

You can't teach 7' and Tyler Zeller is 7'. He has only been in the league 2 years. That's not a long time for centers and point guards.



bob



.

POINT..............COUNTER POINT

First, a comment.......the phrase "center of quality" I think is a stretch when used to describe Zeller.  Does he have an offensive game......it's ok...still needs to be proven.  Is he a rim protector and a good defender.......there is a lot that goes with that description ..........but the answer is no.  You need to factor in timing and vertical leaping ability to block shots, is he good at defending the pick and roll, is he tough enough to box out and fight for rebounds at crunch time.............not at this point. 

So moving on....................................my thoughts.

POINT - We got some assets for nothing. YEP. We received an expiring contract of Thornton next year, plus it could be used in a trade come February, and we received another big man at a very low salary.

COUNTER POINT - The added players (unless another trade develops removing number of players) will cost either or all Iverson, Johnson and Babb job and perhaps another young player showing promise in the Summer League like Mike Moser . Thornton has no game or mid range shot and is just fair from 3 pts. By far I think Babb is better player then Thornton and I was hoping he could be a defensive pressure stopper off the bench with some scoring ability.

If Thornton is used as an expiring contract in a trade, what can we get for him in terms of talent when compared to Johnson or Babb that we will lose. We get nothing unless wrapped up in a bigger package deal that at present is in NBA Fantasy League.

POINT - We received a young big "center" cheap. Yep.

COUNTER POINT - Unless Danny hits the lotto on Zeller and Vitor Faverani
development, neither one will the Celtics be using to build a championship team around and attract max contract players to the Celtics.

In addition, you now have a log jam at center with 2 mediocre centers although Zeller could......and I said could be a player coming off the bench to give a starting center a blow. But now Iverson who is quietly playing well and heads above last year will now probably not make the team. 

POINT - We used an expiring "exemption" of $10M to land assets. YEP.

COUNTER POINT - But the assets are really not worth a whole lot. If you are saying we are collecting assets to go after the bigger fish (Love) or who ever, I think you would be hard pressed to include those assets so as to motivate Flip Saunders to trade Love or any other GM for that matter.

I am disappointed that we did not get 1 really good player using the $10M exemption verses 2  mediocre players. This hurts Iverson, Moser, Babb and Johnson's chances of making the team. One good player could have helped be part of the link in a chain of players helping to entice  max players to come on board.

SUM UP -  Yes I am disappointed on how the $10M dollar exemption was used. It shows that other free agents are not viewing the Celtics and their current crop of assets as being attractive and on the right path to winning at least in the near term.  I could also say that other GM's in the league also feel that as well.  Therefore it will take at least 3 years before we see the WYC FIREWORKS if it is ever going to take place.

112288

Bob,

Doing the deal and getting Thornton and Zeller also has affects on other players in the Celtic system as stated in my post ---Point ....Counter Point.

Second, why are you just mentioning centers and for that matter why a trade.........did you not forget free agents who are available..........give me a good ball player at whatever position in free agency.........unless the Celtics were receiving a cold shoulder from free agents which must be the case ....again as I stated in my post.

My main point is the trade has ramifications on other players who I view as more valuable then what was received.

112288