Tyler Zeller to the C's

Here we go again,when are you going to realize that the rest of the world has good leagues and good players/ I am tired to read every day the same crap.....players from the European leagues are soft ,if a player comes from a league of Europe is not good.Thats stupid,people you need to grow up as fans and understand that there is good basketball outside the USA.Ive seen the same comments with players like Tiago Splitter,Luis Scola,Anderson Varejao and in the past Dino Radja,Drazen Petrovic,Peja Stoiakovic and others,Now the new toy is Vitor,,,,everybody is better than him,he is a bost,Colton Iverson is better than him because he know how to make a pick,nobody wanted him just Danny,but you know what Indiana,New York and San Antonio were trying to sign him and he was a steady player in the best league in Europe (Spain)Colton Iverson barely played in Turkey and was almost cut from his team there and in the Summer league only grab 1 or 2 rebounds per game.Dirk Nowitzki,Tony Parker,Manu Ginobili,Scola,Diaw,Varejao,Sabonis,Kirilenko,Ibaka,The Gasol brothers and many others are from that leagues and a countries like Argentina,Spain,Turkey,Serbia and others are winning and loosing with the dream team and in the next world championship Spain is one of the favourite to win the gold.By the way in the past I read a comment about a player named Dewayne Sims who supposly was a great player and some people were saying that Sims had to be on the Celtics team and after he was cut by Celtics those people were complainint and 6 month later he came to play in the Puerto Rican league and was cut after 3 games ...His numbers?  2 points and 1 rebounds.So next time you think about talking bad about basketball about basketball outside the USA think twice.

bobheckler wrote:I think, but am having trouble confirming, that you cannot trade someone you just received in a trade for 30 days (I know that's true for rookies like Smart and Young.  Free agents cannot be re-traded for 3 months, but traded players...?).  That means there is still time to rumble before camp begins, much less regular season.

I found this in Larry Coon's CBA FAQ (FAQ no. 100):

In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

• For two months after receiving the player in trade, if the trade aggregates the player's salary with the salaries of other players. However, the team is free to trade the player immediately, either by himself or without aggregating his salary with other salaries. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 88.)

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q100

There is an explanation of "aggregation" earlier in the FAQ, but I'm not sure if the multi-team deal that brought Zeller and Thornton to Boston for a trade exception qualifies as aggregation, though "aggravation" definitely comes to mind when attempting to grasp the complexities of this stuff.

So depending on the circumstances, a player received in trade can either be traded immediately or only after waiting two months.

Ainge's summer is likely just getting started. I would be shocked if the current roster is the one they start the season with.

international wrote:Here we go again,when are you going to realize that the rest of the world has good leagues and good players/ I am tired to read every day the same crap.....players from the European leagues are soft ,if a player comes from a league of Europe is not good.Thats stupid,people you need to grow up as fans and understand that there is good basketball outside the USA.Ive seen the same comments with players like Tiago Splitter,Luis Scola,Anderson Varejao and in the past Dino Radja,Drazen Petrovic,Peja Stoiakovic and others,Now the new toy is Vitor,,,,everybody is better than him,he is a bost,Colton Iverson is better than him because he know how to make a pick,nobody wanted him just Danny,but you know what Indiana,New York and San Antonio were trying to sign him and he was a steady player in the best league in Europe (Spain)Colton Iverson barely played in Turkey and was almost cut from his team there and in the Summer league only grab 1 or 2 rebounds per game.Dirk Nowitzki,Tony Parker,Manu Ginobili,Scola,Diaw,Varejao,Sabonis,Kirilenko,Ibaka,The Gasol brothers and many others are from that leagues and a countries like Argentina,Spain,Turkey,Serbia and others are winning and loosing with the dream team and in the next world championship Spain is one of the favourite to win the gold.By the way in the past I read a comment about a player named Dewayne Sims who supposly was a great player and some people were saying that Sims had to be on the Celtics team and after he was cut by Celtics those people were complainint and 6 month later he came to play in the Puerto Rican league and was cut after 3 games ...His numbers?  2 points and 1 rebounds.So next time you think about talking bad about basketball about basketball outside the USA think twice.

international,

I love Argentinean players, one of my all-time favorites is Luis Scola.  I like Puerto Rican players (I like Barea and Arroyo, for example).  I like Brazilians for the most part (nobody on this board was a bigger fan of Barbosa joining the Celtics and calling for him to get more minutes than me).  As far as Euros go, Tony Parker is and has been one of the top players in the league as well as Nicolas Batum and all the other players you cite (and, btw, you left Dirk off the list.  I don't know anybody who has said bad things about Dirk).  The problem I'm having is with Vitor, specifically, not all international players.  I don't think it's fair that you try to make our issues with Vitor into a general indictment by us of all international players.  Some Americans go overseas and do well, some do not.  The same is true of international players who come to play here in the U.S.  Nando de Colo, who was signed by the SAS was traded to Toronto (not much less sympathetic to international players than SAS) and is now going to play for CSKA Moscow.  Nenad Krstic played for OKC, was traded to Boston because he was perceived as 'soft' and they wanted a more physical player like Perk and then went to Moscow in the lockout year and has done much better in Europe than he did here and has decided to stay there.  Gigi Datome, a very highly regarded player in Europe, averaged 7mpg last year with Detroit.  Detroit went out of their way to sign Datome, so he wasn't just some "throw in" on a trade.

Just as Iverson played limited minutes in Turkey, perhaps due to his lack of familiarity with the Euro style of play and perhaps due to the level of competition on his team and in that league (or both!), so too has Vitor played limited minutes here.  Should we assume that Iverson's limited minutes is evidence of limited talent or poor-fitting style of play (either or both of which could easily be true) but Vitor's benching last year isn't?  Was there competition for minutes at center on Iverson's team?  There wasn't any last year for Vitor, the position was his to lose and he still didn't play much.  

Sometimes games don't translate well into other leagues and styles.  That might have been the problem with DeShawn Sims (who has never played a regular season game in the NBA, btw, our personal opinions about that notwithstanding.  He only played in the NBADL.  He was always a longshot), it might have been true with Walter Hermann (an Argentine who played in Spain before coming to the NBA, never really got much traction here and went back there) and it might (MIGHT!) be true with Vitor.  It was a tough year for him.  He was playing in a new system, new league against players he was unfamiliar with and then he got injured.  Let's see what happens this year.

Let's also remember there was almost unanimous clamor on this board for Danny to sign either Asik or Gortat, both of whom are international players.



bob



.

Bob
This is ridiculous,we are going nowhere in this discussion,you seems to not understand my point or I am not explaining correctly.By the way Dirk is the first one in my list and you are sa ying that I left him off my list.But let me try to clear my point one more time.I think and I am sure that the majority of this board fans are negative and a re using the wrong players as scapegoat....Anytime a new big comes to Boston everybody compare him with Faverani and that's not fair because Vitor was not used correctly by the coach and I am not the only one that think that way.Stevens elected to use Humphries and bass who had no future with the team over Vitor and Olynyk and that was a mistake.My opinion is that him nedded to showcase the veterans in order to trade them,but at a same time he was in rebuilding mode and in my opinion tanking.But lets do the comparing game.
Tyler Zeller---5.7 points 4.0 rebounds and 0.5 blocks  7.3 field goals per game in 15.0 minutes
Vitor-----4.4 points    3.5 rebounds    0.7 blocks in 13 minutes.
Almost the same numbers right?
But According to you and some members Vitor should be on his way to Brasil or Spain because Zeller and Iverson are better than him.Is that fair?kdp 59 even said this.....Fav instead was what many others of us felt he was, a long time Euro baller, who was NOT over looked by other teams. He simply is marginal as an NBA talent at best,so do you think that's fair?when many people know that Indiana,New York and even San Antonio were trying to sign him.Why can we wait to see if the man with fair minutes can help the team?You know what is the worst of this crap?That I seen people on this board doing the same with Marcus Smart and that is not fair either.....some fans rather have players like MaClemore or Jimer Fridett  over Smart because they are scoring guard,but you know what both are frauds as shotters and I rather have a defensive specialist like Smarts over those kind of players and you can add Doc Rivers son to that list.In the future if this kind of negativity is going to persist I would have to try another forum or simply stay without reading and don't get me wrong I really like al of you as persons who really had been my friends.

international wrote:Bob
This is ridiculous,we are going nowhere in this discussion,you seems to not understand my point or I am not explaining correctly.By the way Dirk is the first one in my list and you are sa ying that I left him off my list.But let me try to clear my point one more time.I think and I am sure that the majority of this board fans are negative and a re using the wrong players as scapegoat....Anytime a new big comes to Boston everybody compare him with Faverani and that's not fair because Vitor was not used correctly by the coach and I am not the only one that think that way.Stevens elected to use Humphries and bass who had no future with the team over Vitor and Olynyk and that was a mistake.My opinion is that him nedded to showcase the veterans in order to trade them,but at a same time he was in rebuilding mode and in my opinion tanking.But lets do the comparing game.
Tyler Zeller---5.7 points 4.0 rebounds and 0.5 blocks  7.3 field goals per game in 15.0 minutes
Vitor-----4.4 points    3.5 rebounds    0.7 blocks in 13 minutes.
Almost the same numbers right?
But According to you and some members Vitor should be on his way to Brasil or Spain because Zeller and Iverson are better than him.Is that fair?kdp 59 even said this.....Fav instead was what many others of us felt he was, a long time Euro baller, who was NOT over looked by other teams. He simply is marginal as an NBA talent at best,so do you think that's fair?when many people know that Indiana,New York and even San Antonio were trying to sign him.Why can we wait to see if the man with fair minutes can help the team?You know what is the worst of this crap?That I seen people on this board doing the same with Marcus Smart and that is not fair either.....some fans rather have players like MaClemore or Jimer Fridett  over Smart because they are scoring guard,but you know what both are frauds as shotters and I rather have a defensive specialist like Smarts over those kind of players and you can add Doc Rivers son to that list.In the future if this kind of negativity is going to persist I would have to try another forum or simply stay without reading and don't get me wrong I really like al of you as persons who really had been my friends.

international,

I believe it was Outside who suggested that Vitor should be the one who should be moved.  The reason why he said that, and I hope I am not doing him an injustice here, is that Zeller is more of an offensive player and not a banger and Vitor is also more of an offensive player and not as much of a banger, so Iverson just makes sense from the perspective of it being good to have a banger, while having Zeller AND Vitor seems like redundancy.  I'm not sure why we can't carry 3 centers, especially since one of them is returning from knee surgery.  Besides, it's not like we're such an offensive juggernaut that more points from the center position is unnecessary.  I think the conversation started as a question of whether Colton Iverson can even make the team and, if he can and should, whose slot would he take.

If I missed Dirk, fine, but we both agree he should be included as a quality Euro player and doesn't address the core issue here which is, I believe, that you think we're not giving international players enough credit.

There are people who didn't like the Smart selection and still don't after a week of summer league.  They didn't like it because we need a big and Vonleh was still on the board (so was Nurkic but I think he would have been a big surprise pick @ #6) and because he's a defensively-oriented point guard and we have Rondo and Bradley.  There are still people who see him as "overkill" in the back court.  I disagree, if we weren't trading the pick I think Smart was a good pick, but difference of opinions are what make for horse races and energetic sports boards.  I don't expect or even want everybody to always agree with me (how boring would that be?), I just want them to disagree with me pleasantly.  Smile, and then explain to me why you think I'm an idiot.

There were no shortage of posters calling for Jeff Green to be gone last year.  His biggest supporter, MrKleen, got very frustrated at our unwillingness to give Green a fair shake (his opinion, and comparable to how you feel about how we are with international players).  If he's not around much lately it is because he just had a newborn child and probably doesn't sleep much anymore and not because he couldn't accept the fact that many members of this board didn't look at Jeff Green the same way he does.  He engaged in discussions about other topics and pointed out when Green played well.

It's normal, when a new player comes on the team, to compare him to his peers and try to establish where on the depth chart he should be.  Should Zeller start or the more experienced Vitor?  Should Iverson the banger come in before Vitor as a change of style from Zeller or is Iverson still too raw?  Should Smart be the backup point guard, what should happen to Pressey and does this mean that Rondo is gone?  Should Smart begin his career at 2 and grow into a 1 and, if so, should he start ahead of Bradley?  It's all speculation, by us, at this point.  We're not even at camp yet, much less the regular season, so who knows?  We're just talking here in the absence of actual basketball to analyze.  As I pointed out, the board was almost unanimous (I say "almost" just in case I missed someone, but I can't think of anybody) that we wanted Asik or Gortat.  How can we be as negative about international players as you claim we are if our #1 and #2 choices for starting center are international players?  I was hoping Embiid drop to us and he's from Cameroon.  There were posters who disagreed with me but not because he's international but because of his injury history.  And even if they did disagree with me on the question of talent, so what?  They are entitled to their opinion, I am entitled to mine and I am more than happy to go back and forth with them on why we each believe we are right.  Willjr just suggested on another thread that maybe Danny could pry Pekovic, another international player, from Minny to facilitate the Kevin Love trade to Cleveland.  I can't see how that could work but it doesn't make him sound "anti-international", not if he's trying to land Pekovic.  I've also suggested that Pekovic would be a nice pickup.  I like physically punishing centers over finesse centers.  That's one reason why I like Iverson, it's not because of his superior skills, and it's why I wasn't as happy with Krstic.  Yes, I know Krstic is a much better and more skilled player than Iverson but, for what I believe we need now and also how I generally view the pivot position, I believe we need beef more than finesse.  If you read my threads during the pre-draft period you'll see I was very, very high on Kristaps Porzingis, of Latvia, and very envious of Philly because they were able to trade for Croatian Dario Saric.  Does that sound anti-international?

Sam and I were both excited by the possibility of Kris Joseph making the team two years back.  He's Montreal Canadian.  Kelly Olynyk is also Canadian.  #1 pick Andrew Wiggins is Canadian.  Contrary to what many Americans believe, Canada is NOT the 51st state, so they are international players too.

I hope you don't leave, we need and value someone who follows international basketball as much as you but I would suggest that perhaps you could be a little less thin-skinned.  People are entitled to their opinions, even if they make other people's eyes roll, as long as they are courteous.  Just because they disagree with you that doesn't mean much, does it?  Somebody disagrees with me, strongly, almost every single day in one way or another.  Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong but either way I don't let them push me away. I continue to compete.  I believe you should too.

Is there a knowledge gap, a learning curve that many people are at the front end of when it comes to international play and leagues?  Absolutely.  We don't have the benefit that you have of actually BEING international.  Like everybody on just about every subject, we know what we know and tend to gravitate towards what we know.  Maybe you should continue to educate us rather than just throwing your hands up and giving up?  Maybe you should point out where international players that we all acknowledge can play in the NBA have similar games to a prospect you point out for us?  Or, better yet, maybe Vitor will come back strong from his injury and, with a year of NBA experience under his belt, open our eyes.  He's a Celtic so I can say with a high degree of confidence that everybody on this board WANTS him to succeed.  Even if he doesn't that doesn't mean international players are busts.  It might mean this one is, it might mean this one didn't fit in with Stevens' system (and if he is traded to another team he'll excel in the new system, which is why they traded for him) but let us (ALL of us) not over-generalize and assume that one player's success (if he plays well) or failure (because he doesn't) is a reflection of their country of origin because that makes no sense.

I hate these inter-season periods.  We're forced into talking about things that we can't prove.


bob


.

International, The Greeks who came to the NBA have all done pretty well, and San Antonio has been taking foreign players to the bank for years, so I get your point.

Also Vitor may very well turn into a decent center, but it is not unjust to say that he needed to defend pick and rolls much better, and he played way softer than his large body would suggest. Still. I am hopeful that he turns into a real asset on this 2013-14 Celtics team and surprises the heck out of us.

As for Fab Melo, yes he was foreign, but he only played a tiny bit of basketball before Syracuse and then the pros, so I don't think it's fair to judge him as a representative soft foreign player. I do hope  you continue reading and posting - and SCOUTING for us. If you see anyone we should look at signing, let us know.

International,

Perhaps there has been some miscommunication here, because in no way was my intention to make Vitor a scapegoat. He was a worthwhile risk that I don't think worked out very well, but it's not his fault that Boston didn't have a starting-quality center on the roster. I don't understand what you mean about Stevens not using him correctly, but I do think the situation wasn't ideal for him, because he would've been better off playing behind a starter-quality center.

My opinion about Vitor has to do with the player that he is, not with the fact that he is Brazilian or played in European leagues; that, to me, is irrelevant. I did describe him as soft, but that's because I think he is, and I would never say it has anything to do with him being an international player. The "soft" attribute comes to mind for two reasons: when I look at his physique, he seems to have poor definition in the upper body, and another player who comes to mind in that regard is Jared Dudley. The other aspect is his lack of physical play, particularly his reluctance to make contact when setting a screen. Again, I base this on observation, not on where he was born or played prior to coming to the NBA.

Regarding Stevens using Humphries and Bass over Vitor, I do think that Vitor was given an opportunity. He was the starting center to start the season, and he got off with a bang -- particularly his second game, where he had 12 points, 18 rebounds, and 6 blocks against Milwaukee -- but that turned out to be an aberration, and his play tailed off dramatically. As the season went along, he wasn't able to sustain any level of success.

As far as the perception of players from outside the U.S., I don't think it's ever been higher. The Spurs won the title with a roster full of international players, and there has been much admiration from people here for those players and the Spurs ability to use their talents. International players continue to make a significant impact throughout the league, and they'll remain a fixture in the NBA.

As for your perspective, I enjoy your posts and appreciate the information you've provided on the European leagues. I think it's great. If you somehow think that my posts are negative to international players or that your perspective on international players isn't appreciated, I'd like to change that right now, because that would not be a correct portrayal of what I think. I apologize if I've contributed in any way to you thinking that you're not appreciated, and please understand that wasn't my intent whatsoever.

well since you brought me into it

yes I stand by statement that Fav is a MARGINAL NBA talent..

you may disagree, that's fine.

great thing is he has a guaranteed deal for next season and we can all see.

I can wait and I am just fine if you are correct about him.

BTW, Fav could have been from new Jersey for all I care. I try to see the players for what I see in them not what I want to see. I am wrong sometimes and right others.

At this point all the true centers the Celtics have NOT INCLUDING KO AND SULLY are marginal.........Zeller may have the ability to climb out of the pile and become somewhat productive.........he may be the best out of the lot.

As far as Smart goes...........people have to Smarten up..........the guy will be an All Star and he is an animal on defense!

112288

Fav in my opinion is a way better player then Iverson is or will be.
I do think Boston will again have a center by committee or center by match up approach.
Zeller has never done anything to move the needle as a player.
Is he a decent player, yes.
I hate Thornton's game. To me he is a way less talented version of Tyreke Evans. Can't how he gets much playing time behind Bradley and Smart.

Smart was a good pick for Boston.
Will he be an all-star? He needs to learn how to be a good shooter first.
He really has been a horrific shooter in 2 years of college and in the Summer League. He is for sure an NBA player but doesn't really pass the eye test for a pg.

Danny did a good job by getting another 1st round pick.
With LeBron signing with Cleveland, it looks like it will be a pick in the mid to late 20's.

Bob
I agree with what you are saying now,but I want you to understand that what bothers me is the tendency of some people of saying....I don't like that player because he is from Europe and European players are soft and doesn't know how to make a pick or are not good rebounders.Also I like to read a forum of my team to enjoy it and talk about positive things,but when you go to the site and what you see is people complainint about anything and making comparisons with the players of other teams that's bored and get me too much strees and that's not the way I like to talk about my team.You(the members of this forum)have to realize that there is a big difference between the style of playing in Europe and in the NBA,European basketball is more like the style of the San Antonio Spurs where everybody is important and everybody touch the ball and each pocession of the ball include a lot of ball distribution,NBA is more oriented about stars having the ball in their hands and more one against one.So when you see a player like Vitor that seems to be lost and not aggressive is for that reason,that takes time and I hope we are going to see a better player this year.

International, you and I have exchanged many posts about your concerns regarding opinions of players from other countries. There's one very important point to keep in mind. It's very wrong for anyone to dislike an international player mainly because he's an international player. But it's just as wrong for someone to prefer an international player mainly because he's an international player.

Each player should be judged on his merits—not his nationality—and I believe that's the majority opinion (to say the very least) on this board. I know I got excited about one foreign center (I can't recall his name—Bob Heckler, who also liked him, will remember the name) who I thought the Celtics should have selected with the #17 pick in the recent draft. Unfortunately, he excused himself from the draft. But his skills, potential, and body (particularly his huge hands) combined to make me interested in him. I couldn't have cared what country he came from.

I understand that you're particularly sensitive to the desire and effort of international players to "make it" in the NBA. I understand that, in the past, many people characterized international players as "soft"—perhaps very unfairly in many cases. But that was not just some unthinking bias against international players. It was because, with some notable exceptions, there was little evidence that international players in general could compete successfully with the roughness of the NBA.

As time has passed and the NBA has welcomed larger numbers of international players who have proven themselves to be successes in the NBA, I believe wise basketball people (and I include members of this board in that group) realize that it's important to evaluate a player (whether from other countries or the U.S.) based only on his basketball credentials and potential.

I don't happen to be a fan who prefers centers who seem to prefer shooting threes over setting solid picks. It wouldn't matter whether their names were Faverani or Sullinger. It wouldn't matter whether they came from South America or from Columbus, Ohio. It is my right to utilize standards I believe are fair in evaluating players as possible Celtics and, FAR more important (from my point of view), to evaluate teams. There is certainly no intent to offend you in our opinions, because we appreciate and learn from your participation on this board.

Personally, I think you are doing a very courageous thing by speaking out for international players on the board, and I hope you will continue to do so. I, for one, would greatly miss your point of view if we no longer had access to it. But please don't be offended if not everyone agrees with your assessment of every player. And, more important, please don't assume that any disagreement with your opinion is an insult to international players as a whole.

There's a board member nicknamed TJMakz who has been a member for many years. He's a Lakers fan, and he's proud of that fact. He has endured far more disagreement than you can imagine with his posting. I've wondered, many times, why he bothers to put up with it and continues to post reasonable, well-documented thoughts when he knows the strong Celtics loyalty on the board will probably result in more disagreement mainly because he's a Lakers fan. My own guess is that he sticks around here because he can't find more informed and (here's that word again) convivial chat rooms on basketball. And I hope that's why you'll also stick around here.

TJ has had to develop a thick skin and carefully weigh every word he posts—to the point where he has been nominated for our Hall of Fame. It may be just as necessary for you to accept the fact that not everybody on the board may see things the same way you do, even if you're absolutely certain you're right. But that shouldn't stop you from trying, because you are supporting a very worthy cause.

And one thing you should never forget. I don't believe one word of disagreement with what you say is intended to be a personal insult to you or a collective insult to international basketball. It's just discussion of opinions. That's what we do.

Go Celtics. And all the best to you,

Sam

Thanks guys.
You really are the best,your friendship and your behaviour very polite is very much appreciated by me.BUT I would like you to understand something...I am not watching basketball lately,I've been watching players from Europe since and in the past I played against many of them.In the 70s there were some players that were very tough and played hard and sometimes nasty.I want to talk about 3 of the best....Kresimir Cosic,Aleksander Belov and Vladimir Tachenko....Cosic was from Yogoslavia and was a 6-11 center that was all American playing for Bringham Young,Belov was the center of the Soviet team in olimpic games in Munich Germany and Tachenko was a 7-4 monters of 290 pounds who was a beast.All 3 could have played in the NBA and be succesfull but their countries did not allowed then to do it.Believe those 3 were as physical as you can get and were not soft,i played against Cosic and I can say he was very rude.i am going to show you some you tube parts of them playing and I am sue you are going to enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2k40KmUYE0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvipCqAV0jU

https://youtu.be/RwZuPi4cbyg

International

I'll swim across the pond and kick your butt if you leave.

I think the perception of soft euro's is there by many, BUT that perception is changing..................slowly.

I do remember a player you mentioned Dino Radja. I believe he actually might have lead the C's in scoring one season and usually the player he guarded did pretty well too. When asked about his defense or lack thereof I think he replied something to the effect that "they can't guard me either."

Believe there is a website that shows a listing of all the current foreign players and certainly there are many more than just a few years ago, rightfully so.

Anyway keep posting,

beat

beat wrote:International

I'll swim across the pond and kick your butt if you leave.

I think the perception of soft euro's is there by many, BUT that perception is changing..................slowly.

I do remember a player you mentioned Dino Radja. I believe he actually might have lead the C's in scoring one season and usually the player he guarded did pretty well too. When asked about his defense or lack thereof I think he replied something to the effect that "they can't guard me either."

Believe there is a website that shows a listing of all the current foreign players and certainly there are many more than just a few years ago, rightfully so.

Anyway keep posting,

beat

Beat,


Good news!  You'd only have to go for a quick dip in the Carribean and not all the way across the pond.  International is in Puerto Rico.   You won't even need a passport.



bob


.

International,

Unfortunately, I couldn't open any of those three videos, but I'm perfectly happy to take your word for it. However, those guys were in the past when I believe impressions of international players were much lower in general than is now the case.

I believe the Celtics hired a full-time international scout this off-season, and that has to be a giant step toward greater exposure for international players to the Celtics. It doesn't guarantee anything, but it's a step in the right direction.

Please keep us informed about international players. In fact, I would encourage you to write (for this forum) a periodic (weekly? monthly?) post about developments in international basketball and updates on international players. You could talk about the various international leagues, progress of international players, history of former international players, successes of international players, and even what international players eat for breakfast if you want. (LOL) Seriously, I would enjoy reading something like that, and I would feel more knowledgeable about international players when draft time arrived.

Thank you,

Sam

bobheckler wrote:

beat wrote:International

I'll swim across the pond and kick your butt if you leave.

I think the perception of soft euro's is there by many, BUT that perception is changing..................slowly.

I do remember a player you mentioned Dino Radja. I believe he actually might have lead the C's in scoring one season and usually the player he guarded did pretty well too. When asked about his defense or lack thereof I think he replied something to the effect that "they can't guard me either."

Believe there is a website that shows a listing of all the current foreign players and certainly there are many more than just a few years ago, rightfully so.

Anyway keep posting,

beat

Beat,


Good news!  You'd only have to go for a quick dip in the Carribean and not all the way across the pond.  International is in Puerto Rico.   You won't even need a passport.



bob


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Actually I can't swim a lick............

beat

Beat, I was going to offer to grease you up for the plunge.  I've only been to a Puerto Rican airport when passing through.  But I know from friends, including a native, what a beautiful place it is.  I have particular interest in seeing a real live rainforest, and there's a great one in Puerto Rico.  If we can sell our house (we've just put it on the market, having already moved to a different house), we shouldn't have to work and will be able to travel more.  And Puerto Rico is on the list.

Sam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCV6OOaHug the word Yunque means anvil in English.

Nice center prospect pickup, better than the 2nd best center prospect in this draft. 2 years experience, now playing with better PFs and PG, and coach. We'll be able to see what he can really do this year.

international wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCV6OOaHug    the word Yunque means anvil in English.

international,

I watched the video. Rainforests are actually one of my favorite places. There is no more living place on earth than rainforest. The Sierra Palm Forest, in particular, looked intriguing to me.

One of these days I'll get there. I should have gone when I lived back east, it was closer then, but I'll still get there one of these days. Hell, Puerto Rico is a U.S. Territory so one doesn't even need a passport to go there from here.



bob


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international wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2k40KmUYE0

international,

Cosic was a Croatian diplomat to the U.S.? Interesting. Too bad he died so young, 46. In Baltimore.

One of the things I hate about highlight films is that they only show offense and not defense. That appears to be true for almost every player. There's too much emphasis on offense in basketball, in my opinion. Offense is important, of course, but so is getting stops. Unfortunately if you want to watch defense you have to watch the game because you rarely see that in highlight films.

This video shows Cosic with a very nice mid-range jumper, nice mechanics and a soft touch, and as a very good ballhandler and passer for a 6'11" big man. Clever low post play, mixing up drop steps and turnarounds to keep his man off-balance.


bob


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