Re: kemba Traded to Thunder

by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:17 pm

Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 17 minutes ago
Celtics officially announce the Kemba Walker for Al Horford deal. Stevens: “Kemba is a true professional and a great teammate and player. I want to thank him for his tremendous impact, and the positive contribution he’s made both to the Celtics and the City of Boston.”

Bob

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by **Shamrock1000** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:23 pm

bobheckler wrote:Another positive here is that Horford can tutor our young bigs. People have been calling for a "big man coach" for the Celtics. Well, that's Big Al. He's not a full-time coach, of course, but he's got all the rest of the technical and non-tangible people skills for it.

I don't know what this trade for TWO bigs means for the future of last season's bigs but if RWill is still with us then having Al Horford here can only accelerate his growth. Also, having Moses Brown on the team would also create some healthy competition for RWill. Before today there really wasn't anybody on the team with his specific skillsets. Now there is.

One thing about Moses: 77.2% of all his fgas last year were from 0-3'. That means 'dunks'. 22.4% of his fgas were from 3-10'. That pretty much means that Moses Brown plays, offensively, almost wholly within the restricted zone. He is NOT a floor spreader, to say the least. But his shot zones aren't significantly better than The Time Lord's. Their ft% are about the same, low 60%. The question is whether he's an RWill or a Hassan Whiteside on defense? Will he defend at the arc or is he loathe to leave the paint?

Then there's the contract situation. As I have mentioned, Brown has 3 very friendly contract years left. Robert Williams has one more year left and then he's a RFA with a $5.4M Qualifying Offer.

Bob

.

Definitely Al can help the young bigs specifically, and he will provide general veteran leadership. Moses' game does seem similar to RWIII, except RWIII seems to be a better passer. Great question about Moses' ability to defend the perimeter - I went back and looked at some of his draft scouting reports, and one mentioned he was a bit slow to close. Moses' is two years younger than RWIII, which surprised me.

by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:24 pm

John Karalis @RedsArmy_John
about 1 hour ago
Initial reaction: Celtics basically drafted Moses Brown with the 16th pick. Horford saves them money but I'm not 100% sure he sticks around.

Chris Grenham @chrisgrenham
about 1 hour ago
Losing the 16th pick really isn’t a huge deal. The Celtics don’t need another draftee on this roster, and Moses Brown comes in as a young prospect w/ a high ceiling anyway. Don’t know if Ainge would’ve given up 16, but Stevens doesn’t love the potential of a prospect like Ainge.

Tom Westerholm @Tom_NBA
about 1 hour ago
Kind of funny that Danny made Brad work with a hundred mid-first round picks over the years and Brad used one to dump a contract first chance he got.
MY NOTE: This is an excellent point. Those who are saying this was really a Danny Ainge deal as part of his offer to "help Brad through the transition" forget that the reason why we have Romeo and Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards and even Nesmith is because Trader Danny is in love with draft picks, and hoarded them (excessively, in my opinion), while Brad was the one who had to turn Danny's nuggets into real gold, gold that can compete with seasoned veterans.

Chris Forsberg @ChrisForsberg_
about 2 hours ago
Celtics save $9 million in salary between Kemba + Al Horford next season. Horford’s 2022-23 salary is only partially guaranteed, which gives the Celtics a bunch of options with how to proceed. Essentially, path to adding a new third star is a bit easier

Bob

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by **Shamrock1000** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:27 pm

dboss wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:Question - would Danny have done this trade? Was Danny involved, or is this truly Brad's first move as President? Given Danny's history, it seems like giving up the first would have killed him...

This trade may have just been done but I know Danny was in the middle of it. Danny said that he would still be working with Brad during the transition period. There is no way in hell that Brad pulled this one off by himself.

The draft pick was a given because of the size of Kemba's contract. In another thread I mention the pick as being needed to make a deal work so i am not at all surprised. And I am sure everybody realizes that there are plenty of children to feed already. This team can live without a 16th pick this year. Don't be shocked if another one heads out the door if Boston has their sights set on a certain PG.

Yeah, for sure the pick was essentially payment for taking on Kemba's massive contract. Unless they traded Kemba to Dallas for KP's equally bloated contract, a pick or young player was going to be necessary.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Brad couldn't have pulled this off on his own? Not enough time in the position to have laid down the groundwork?

by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:28 pm

Gary Washburn @GwashburnGlobe
about 2 hours ago
The NBA is a crazy place. Al Horford back in Boston on the same four-year $109 mill deal the #Celtics said “hell nah” to two years ago.

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 2 hours ago
Also reported last week on MassLive that Al Horford would 'love to return to Boston' per league sources. Celtics bring home a guy that wanted to come back after leaving two years ago for bigger deal.
MY NOTE: So Horford gets the best of both worlds. He still has his big contract but he's going to get it where he wanted to play anyway. Of course, there's no way to be sure if Trader Brad is done yet.

Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 2 hours ago
The biggest asset in all of this is the Horford family’s disdain for the Sixers

Bob

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by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:30 pm

Chris Forsberg @ChrisForsberg_
about 2 hours ago
Celtics save $9 million in salary between Kemba + Al Horford next season. Horford’s 2022-23 salary is only partially guaranteed, which gives the Celtics a bunch of options with how to proceed. Essentially, path to adding a new third star is a bit easier
MY NOTE: Or, it could make it easier to resign Smart.

Bob

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by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:46 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisgrenham/2021/06/18/boston-celtics-reportedly-trade-kemba-walker-to-oklahoma-city-thunder-for-al-horford/?sh=81662b13f06c

Boston Celtics Reportedly Trade Kemba Walker To Oklahoma City Thunder For Al Horford

Chris Grenham

Brad Stevens has been the Celtics president of basketball operations for less than one month, but he’s wasting no time reshaping Boston’s roster.

The Celtics are trading point guard Kemba Walker, the No. 16 overall pick in the 2021 NBA Draft and a 2025 second-round pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for former Celtic Al Horford, Moses Brown and a 2023 second-round pick, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Celtics are trading Kemba Walker, the No. 16 overall pick in the 2021 draft and a 2025 second-round draft pick to Oklahoma City for Al Horford, Moses Brown and a 2023 second-round pick, sources tell ESPN.
6:11 AM · Jun 18, 2021

It isn’t breaking news that Boston was looking to get off of Walker’s contract, but the urgency in which Stevens was able to make this move certainly is eye-opening just days before the 2021 NBA Draft Combine. The Celtics created some added salary cap flexibility with this deal by sending the roughly $73 million they owed to Walker to Oklahoma City. The Celtics will ultimately save about $9 million in salary next season by swapping Walker and Horford. Horford’s 2022-23 salary of $26.5 million is partially guaranteed at $14.5 million, which provides some additional flexibility for Boston down the road. Per ESPN’s Bobby Marks, Walker’s 15% trade kicker now becomes voided and won’t be used in the transaction.

Of course, moving their lone first-round pick in the process is not ideal for Boston’s new-look front office, but that is a cost that comes with trading a salary as large as Walker’s. Boston really isn’t in the market for another young draftee anyway considering the state of its roster. For Stevens and Co., it is clear that the added cap flexibility outweighed the potential of a draft pick just outside the lottery. Brown, 21, essentially fills that selection’s potential spot on the roster moving forward.

Walker’s durability issues were rather glaring over the last few years in Boston, which gave his heavy contract an even uglier look on the Celtics’ books. Boston was limited in its roster flexibility with Walker under contract, which became an increasingly tough pill to swallow as he knee issues continued to flare up. Horford and Brown are a solid return, even if you had to part ways with a first-round pick. Brown is under contract through 2024 at a good value, so he presents a nice low-risk, high-reward play for Stevens and the Celtics frontcourt.

The bigger question now centers around what Boston does with its newly-acquired flexibility. Moving Tristan Thompson seems like a good option, considering the Celtics now have Al Horford, Robert Williams and Moses Brown on their roster. Thompson likely won’t have a spot in this new-look frontcourt.

On the other end of the deal, Sam Presti and the Thunder continue to load up on assets. Oklahoma City now has three first-round picks in next month’s NBA Draft.

Boston’s offseason moves are nowhere near finished, but this certainly is an interesting start to Stevens’ career as a front-office executive.

Bob
MY NOTE: We are WAY overloaded on bigs. Furthermore, we just added two players and gave up only one, so someone has to go, we can only speculate at this time who. There will be more shoes to drop, guaranteed, and I wouldn't be fall-down shocked if they happened before draft day 7/29. NBA free agency begins August 6th. Moving players to put together a better trade package on sign-and-trades, or to pick up some draft picks for a better trade package, or trading players for draft picks so you have roster space for a free agent, makes sense and not just for Brad but for other GMs who want to make space or put together their own packages too.

Furthermore, now that we don't have a first round pick, we don't have to worry about bringing in a coach before the NBA Combine. Unless Brad trades for a first round pick there won't be a lot of players good enough to be invited to the Combine that will go in the 2nd round. Some, but not tons. This also explains why they've been working out projected 2nd rounders and likely undrafted players this past week or two. They're who are realistically on Brad's radar now.

Let's not forget at whose feet Brad Stevens learned the Art of the Trade from...

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by **dboss** Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:56 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
dboss wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:Question - would Danny have done this trade? Was Danny involved, or is this truly Brad's first move as President? Given Danny's history, it seems like giving up the first would have killed him...

This trade may have just been done but I know Danny was in the middle of it. Danny said that he would still be working with Brad during the transition period. There is no way in hell that Brad pulled this one off by himself.

The draft pick was a given because of the size of Kemba's contract. In another thread I mention the pick as being needed to make a deal work so i am not at all surprised. And I am sure everybody realizes that there are plenty of children to feed already. This team can live without a 16th pick this year. Don't be shocked if another one heads out the door if Boston has their sights set on a certain PG.

Yeah, for sure the pick was essentially payment for taking on Kemba's massive contract. Unless they traded Kemba to Dallas for KP's equally bloated contract, a pick or young player was going to be necessary.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Brad couldn't have pulled this off on his own? Not enough time in the position to have laid down the groundwork?

Rock

I could easily be wrong but here is my reasoming.

The Celtics pretty much made a decision to trade Kemba when Danny did that interview and spoke about his core players and did not include Kemba in the mix. Danny is still working in a transitional capacity for the Celtics and I am pretty certain he was intimately involved along with legal counsel and CAP guru Mike Zarrin. The prospect that OKC was a potential trade partner with AH coming back has already been discussed on this forum. It should not be a surprise but the timing indicates they have been working on this for a while. That means Danny was involved.

by **dboss** Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:06 pm

Bobh we need to get a coach in place asap

It would be pretty negligent not to do that. And if more moves are made before the draft and FA, as you speculated about, that is all the more reason why the new coach needs to be in place.

by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:21 pm

dboss wrote:Bobh we need to get a coach in place asap

It would be pretty negligent not to do that. And if more moves are made before the draft and FA, as you speculated about, that is all the more reason why the new coach needs to be in place.

dboss,

Before the Combine (6/21 - 6/27) and before the Draft (7/29) is not the same thing as ASAP. If the trades are for veteran players, and if Brad hires a veteran NBA coach, then there won't be much of a learning curve. If he hires John Calipari, who rumors are saying wants another shot at the NBA, then there is.

Getting this done sooner rather than later makes sense, but it also doesn't make sense to me to rush it and hire someone that's not your first choice just because your first choice is working for a team that's still in the playoffs and so you're not likely to be allowed to talk to them yet (e.g. Chauncey Billups, Clippers; Sam Cassell, Sixers; Darvis Ham, Bucks).

Bob

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:26 pm

Not for anything, we heard about this trade possibly going down long before Danny left. Al 's contract was the one contract that could be switched for Kemba. So groundwork might already have been there, Brad just finished it off and got the trade done. ????

by **dboss** Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:41 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:Bobh we need to get a coach in place asap

It would be pretty negligent not to do that. And if more moves are made before the draft and FA, as you speculated about, that is all the more reason why the new coach needs to be in place.

dboss,

Before the Combine (6/21 - 6/27) and before the Draft (7/29) is not the same thing as ASAP. If the trades are for veteran players, and if Brad hires a veteran NBA coach, then there won't be much of a learning curve. If he hires John Calipari, who rumors are saying wants another shot at the NBA, then there is.

Getting this done sooner rather than later makes sense, but it also doesn't make sense to me to rush it and hire someone that's not your first choice just because your first choice is working for a team that's still in the playoffs and so you're not likely to be allowed to talk to them yet (e.g. Chauncey Billups, Clippers; Sam Cassell, Sixers; Darvis Ham, Bucks).

Bob

.

bobH

Everyday another NBA coaching job opens up. Therefore the Celtics urgency in getting their guy should be a top priority. ASAP means ASAP. There is no date associated with that. You make it sound as though the Celtics can just sit around and twiddle their thumbs

The new coach should have some impact on who will be on the roster. Brad did not have the status when he was hired to impact the roster but the new coach should and will.

It is not about a learning curve. I said asap and I have clarified the reason for that. Availability and new coaches input in roster reconstruction.

by **dboss** Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:45 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Not for anything, we heard about this trade possibly going down long before Danny left. Al 's contract was the one contract that could be switched for Kemba. So groundwork might already have been there, Brad just finished it off and got the trade done. ????

Exactly and with the blessing of Danny. It would not have been fair for Danny to leave and not fix the big mistake and leave it on Brad to correct.

by **bobheckler** Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:17 pm

Mark Murphy @Murf56
about 46 minutes ago
OKC converted Moses Brown's two-way contract to a regular four-year deal one day after he turned in a 21-23 game against Celtics in late March. He averaged 9.7 points and 10.2 rebounds over last 36 games of the season.

Bob
MY NOTE: Brown averaged 21.4mpg last season, starting in 32 of 43 games. I'd take 10 and 10 in 21 from our back up center, happily. From OKC's perspective they added Kemba, who still averaged 19.3ppg last season in 43 games, unloaded a contract of a player that they weren't going to play anyway and traded a player that didn't cost them any draft picks or traded players to land. This is a good deal for both teams, although I can't imagine who OKC is going to start at center next year. Mike Muscala isn't really much of a center, and he's a UFA anyway. Tony Bradley? Tony Bradley is not a starting NBA center, and he's a RFA now too.

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:28 pm

So, my son just told me that Thompson and Kardashian are having a surrogate child. So maybe he will ask for a trade so he can be closer to her?????

Just a little TMZ info for you to chew on

by **Ktron** Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:32 pm

dboss wrote:Man this deal seems like lightning striking

The Celtics wasted no time getting this deal done.

It also confirms the narrative that the Celtics have been wanting to move away from KW for a while. Some unnamed sources were on point while others were not. I knew it was probably going to cost Boston a first rounder.

This is a Danny Ainge trade! Brad was involved but it has all the markings of a Danny Ainge transaction.

The Celtics take on $53 mill remaining on AH. Kemba was due to make $36 million this year and Al will be around $27 million. Moses Brown was a 2nd round pick and will only make $1.78 million this year.

He is a legit 7' 2" center who averaged 8.6 PPG and 8.9 rebounds while playing 21.4 MPG in 43 games.

Clearly the next move will be for a PG with TT being the very tradeable contract that anchors another deal. Look for Semi and Kornet to also be let go. If the Celtics go for a top rated PG look for Marcus to also be in the deal along with TT and don't forget we still have $11 million remaining on the big TPE plus several smaller but very useful TPE's to wager.

Al's got to be as happy as a pig in sh-t.

I do feel bad for Kemba in a way because he just had a $8 million dollar home built. however, he still gets a big paycheck and maybe a buyout next season to land with a team where he can compete for a title.

I like Kemba- a lot! But feel sorry because he just had an 8 million dollar home built? Bro, in this current market that house is gonna spin off some real quick cash that’ll pay Kemba nicely for the inconvenience. Sure sucks to be him huh?

by **Ktron** Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:41 pm

dboss wrote:
Shamrock1000 wrote:
dboss wrote:

Clearly the next move will be for a PG with TT being the very tradeable contract that anchors another deal. Look for Semi and Kornet to also be let go. If the Celtics go for a top rated PG look for Marcus to also be in the deal along with TT and don't forget we still have $11 million remaining on the big TPE plus several smaller but very useful TPE's to wager.

That was one of the first thoughts that popped into my head, at least the TT part - didn't consider throwing in Marcus for a top PG....

Rock

The Marcus inclusion is highly speculative.

I just do not know if Marcus is the guy that you want to or should resign. I just do not see them resigning Fournier this year and then Marcus next year. If you cannot make a deal for a PG using TT and something else Marcus could be in the picture and we could be looking at a guy like Brogdon in Indiana. I could see a 3 team deal with Turner going to the 3rd team. Put the 6'5" Brogdon at the point keep Evan and pick who starts at center. That would be a very interesting team.

If Boston decides to retain Fournier Marcus will likely be traded. TT has to be traded because we do not need him with the addition of AH and Moses. So he is gone but I just do not know where. The clock is ticking on the next move.

Al has a very friendly contract when you consider the nonguaranteed element in year two. So down the road we may be looking at a center rotation of two very athletic centers that fit a long timeline into the future (the law firm of Williams and Brown defenders of the paint)

Dboss, Sooooo TT and Marcus Smart for Malcolm Brogden? I’ll have whatever you’ve been smoking. Geez us!

by **Ktron** Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:00 pm

dboss wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:Bobh we need to get a coach in place asap

It would be pretty negligent not to do that. And if more moves are made before the draft and FA, as you speculated about, that is all the more reason why the new coach needs to be in place.

dboss,

Before the Combine (6/21 - 6/27) and before the Draft (7/29) is not the same thing as ASAP. If the trades are for veteran players, and if Brad hires a veteran NBA coach, then there won't be much of a learning curve. If he hires John Calipari, who rumors are saying wants another shot at the NBA, then there is.

Getting this done sooner rather than later makes sense, but it also doesn't make sense to me to rush it and hire someone that's not your first choice just because your first choice is working for a team that's still in the playoffs and so you're not likely to be allowed to talk to them yet (e.g. Chauncey Billups, Clippers; Sam Cassell, Sixers; Darvis Ham, Bucks).

Bob

.

bobH

Everyday another NBA coaching job opens up. Therefore the Celtics urgency in getting their guy should be a top priority. ASAP means ASAP. There is no date associated with that. You make it sound as though the Celtics can just sit around and twiddle their thumbs

The new coach should have some impact on who will be on the roster. Brad did not have the status when he was hired to impact the roster but the new coach should and will.

It is not about a learning curve. I said asap and I have clarified the reason for that. Availability and new coaches input in roster reconstruction.

I second that. It’s important because there are so many openings and we have to compete for our guy. The more openings, the harder it gets. On the other hand, in a perfect world it may be a nice luxury to have, but I disagree that the head coach should have some impact on who should be on the roster. You coach who we have..Coach!

by **112288** Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:11 pm

dbrown4 wrote:Can we get Bradley Beal without giving up the farm?!

db

WHY? You would need to trade Brown which is a wash, redundant. Brown is by far a better player in my opinion then Beal. He plays tough defense, he can penetrate the paint and can shoot the 3 ball really well, and he is young! If they were to elect a team captain, Brown would be my choice. He is very smart off the court and he has tremendous leadership skills on the court.

Let us not focus on such silly thoughts, you need a KICK ASS CENTER who does not get hurt, and a point guard that can distribute!

As far as Kemba is concerned, he was a bad fit for the team. The team is built around Tatum and Brown and need a point guard that can distribute the ball like Rondo. Walker was not that point guard, he loved the 3 ball. If he just focused on probing the paint by keeping the defense honest and not sagging on tatum or Brown, it would have worked.

112288

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 pm

funny, it worked for the first half of the season the first year he was here. It was so good that he became an all star, Tatum made the all star team, and Jaylen just missed. Then the injuries
started. I do not think this was a bad fit as much as I think it was just not meant to be for him.
When he did come back it was in a one game in one game off situation, then injured again. He just never got back to full health witch caused him to worry, force his offense, and just not be able to do the things he was capable of before.

Let's not treat this guy like he was some also ran, Many here were happy when he was signed. It was the hope that we would not skip a beat after the ass that was here before. He was refreshing after looking at Kyrie and his sour face every game. It didn't work because his body gave out on him, period. Not because he did not try.

by **Ktron** Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:26 pm

I wish it had worked out. Seems like the ones with the character and the desire to be a Celt and remain a Celt end up leaving unceremoniously. It’s tough. Really liked the guy. Shades of I.T. It’s a cruel business.

by **112288** Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:29 pm

I do not think anyone here thought he was not good. He was great and was an AllStar caliber player. But his MO was a 3 ball shooter and occasional drive to the basket scorer.

He did not play defense well and was not a great distributor of the ball with great court vision as a Rondo or a Paul.

The Celtics and Walker’s problem began when Brown found his outside shot specifically the 3 ball a year ago. So we did not need Walker shooting as many 3’s as before. But he kept doing it despite Brown and Tatum. It was Walkers job to distribute the ball to both of them. It was also Walkers scoring job to probe the paint for layups to keep the defense honest while also looking for kick outs to Tatum and Brown if the defense sagged. If done properly, he could have created great scoring opportunities by passing to a quick cutting Tatum or Brown on a back door play and a high value scoring shot as well

112287

by **cowens/oldschool** Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:22 pm

I had never heard of this kid until he had that Moses Malone like 21-23 board game against a healthy RWill. I have been following him on the box scores since and was wishing we could get a young 7 footer like this. In 21 minutes averaging 9 boards a game would have led this team in rebounding and he’s only 21. What a great acquisition to pair with RWIll and Horford can still be good in 12-15 minute bursts. Amazing trade all the way around!!!

by **bobc33** Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:28 pm

Next up???

How do we acquire Lonzo Ball? Is it feasible?

by **worcester** Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:40 pm

NOLA will give us Lonzo for free if we sign SVG as our coach and take his contract of their hands.

LOL

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