Straight from Sam's Shoulder (SSS)

I mention the possibility that a starter might play with the bench in the playoffs because that has been Doc's modus operandi. He tried it the other way last night and had to bring the starters back in. The bench, operating on its own, simply wasn't up to the task of containing an eager opponent.

I join others who expect Delonte's presence to settle down the bench unit, whereas I though Bradley contribute to an almost panic mentality by taking shots whose timing might even have embarrassed Nate Robinson. Maybe Delonte's presence alone will be enough so no starters will have to share some bench time.

But the bench, without either Paul or Ray, has a long way to go. In the regular season, Doc can afford experiments like last night. In the playoffs, he has to become much more conservative, because even one blown game could be critical.

I have liked Wafer's progress at both ends. I like the idea of Sasha's length and defensive reputation. Whether one or both of them can help the bench to be as consistently competitive as it needs to be in the playoffs is yet to be seen. Whatever the bench rotation will be in the playoffs, there's a strong likelihood that it hasn't yet played a minute together—and may not for a while. The less cohesiveness they have come the playoffs, the greater the likelihood that you'll see Paul or Ray spending some time with them.

Sam

Sam

Agree with basically everything you said Sam,

I'd start Shaq (if healthy) over Kristic as well, though I could be swayed on that if the offense is clicking with Kristic and Shaq is slow to return to form. I think if there's a chance that JO could play then he'll be on the playoff rotation, Doc loves veterans. If that's the case then I'd go with Sasha over Wafer also. Though like you I'd like to see Sasha play before I set that in stone.

If JO can't go, still holding out hope he can though reality seems to indicate he wont, then I think you nailed the rotation. Also agree that Doc will use a starter to anchor the second unit; like you said he's consistently shown the pattern to do so.

Agree with you on Johnson as well. Better to keep him around as I just don't see the point in bringing in yet another new player just to have him likely be left off the playoff roster anyways.

All in all I think after the Sasha signing the roster is set. And then as the idiom goes, let the chips fall where they may.

Sometimes DEJA Offers the Best VU.

Last night's game prompted me go start thinking beyond the impact of new acquisitions. My focus has moved to the overall direction in which this team is headed in its executions. A serious evolution seems in the offing. I'm hoping that, notwithstanding the ongoing discontinuity surrounding the team, they'll be able to assume a new identity comfortably by playoff time.

To explain my thinking, I have to hark back to (here's a shocker!) the Russell days. During those years, I learned that great defense kept the Celtics in games, but it was great offense that more regularly put the game away and drove a stake into the opponent's heart.

Of course, a lot of their offense fed off defensive stops. But simply getting a stop doesn't demoralize the opponent unless it's followed by an offensive success.

The home crowd knows. Think about a sustained crowd roar during game action. It almost always follows a Celtics score and can last through a couple of possessions. But the applause for a defensive stop ceases if the team doesn't immediately capitalize on the offensive end.

Opponents react in much the same way. If the Celtics make a stop, the other team has an opportunity to neutralize that stop with one of their own. However, if the Celtics score after a stop, the other team has suffered a double whammy.

Therefore, I would submit that the Celtics have an opportunity to close out games with greater finality by having upgraded their offense while still maintaining a solid defense. Having defense as a primary calling card is more of an invitation to ugly wins and lots of expended energy.

I believe that the starting Celtics team now has a better balance between offense and defense than at any other time in the Garnett era. They'll give up more points but will score more points. Which will result in more demoralization for opponents.

How the bench will shape up will be unknown until the bench actually takes shape and starts working together.

Sam

Ehhh, What's up Doc?

A suggestion for Doc. He always listens to my suggestions. Well, I think he did once about four years ago.

1. Tomorrow the Celtics play the Warriors—not exactly an overachieving team on the road, and now trying to work Thornton into the lineup. So the visitors may be a little tentative.

2. Against the Suns, the Celtics starters proved to me that they have it pretty much together on offense, even with new guy Kristic at center. The bench, on the other hand, needs lots of work.

3. So here's what I suggest to Doc. Against the Warriors, how about starting Johnson at center? The other four starters tend to carry whoever starts at center anyway, so why not see what Johnson can do?

4. More important, since Kristic will likely be a bench player when Shaq returns, why not start getting Nenad familiar with at least some of his bench mates (Green, Murphy, Wafer and Sasha) now? In fact, I'd like to see those four guys playing on a unit with Kris. I'm impressed with Wafer's court sense and passing, and I'd give him a temporary shot at PG.

5. At this point, I look at Bradley as a potential time bomb. That's what he proved to be against the Suns And I envision him struggling to exert leadership of a unit that is in desperate need of coming together.

5. A five of Kristic (C), Murphy (PF), Green (SF), Sasha (SG) and Wafer (PG) would definitely not be height-challenged. And I could see them mounting an excellent transition offense, with Murphy as a trailer.

6. If a stretch run is needed, I'd put Kristic back with the starters a la Davis.

I don't expect Doc will do this, and I'm virtually certain he'll have one or two starters playing with the bench most of the time. But I'd love to see him try this idea.

Sam

Sam,
I think you're right about Doc not putting CJ on the 1st unit instead of NK. And here's why (my thought).
When Shaq comes back he's, most probably, going to start. Which means he plays about 20-25min. The other starters play for about 35 min, which means that they'll have NK for 10-15 min. I think Doc will combine NK's indoctrination into Celtics system and his fitting into starting unit. He has some time for that before Shaq comes back.

AK

Sam I'd also like to see Green playing with the starters at the 3 seeing what he can do with either Pierce or Ray at the 2,this line up with Shaq too eventually has got to be explored.Also like what I'm seeing out of Avery Bradley,if Delonte is healthy, he probably won't get off bench in playoffs, but he shown me enough speed that next year he can make a jump and help us.

Debilitate, Debilitate, Dance to the Music

Jeff Green looks like a triple hybrid in my estimation.

His step-back jumper is pure Pierce.

His offensive versatility is pure Havlicek.

His blend of speed, power, verticality, and length is pure Bias.

I honestly believe this guy could give us some serious glimpses of what Lenny could have been. And he strikes me as the durable type too. In his first four seasons, he has missed a total of six games. (Hope this doesn't put the whammy on him.)

The bench five of Krstic, Davis, Green, Wafer/Sasha, West should provide some solid transition basketball when they get in synch. When the bench amps up the pace in relief of the starters, opponents usually start singing the old Carly Simon song...................DE-BIL-I-TA-TION.

Sam

What do the Celtics have (if healthy) that no other Celtics team has ever had?

Three separate and complete teams, with no one playing out of position:

First team:
C-Shaq
PF-KG
SF-Pierce
SG-Ray
PG-Rondo

Second Team
C-Krstic
PF-Davis
SF-Green
SG-Wafer
PG-West

Third Team
C-Jermaine
PF-Murphy
SF-Sasha
SG-Bradley
PG-Arroyo

One could nitpick about Bradley at SG, but I feel he's a 2 in a 1's body (at least at this stage of his career). Yes, I did qualify the question to say, "if healthy." I realize that several players can man more than one position; but I don't believe that any of the positions I assigned to the 15 players is a stretch. And I'm not trying to debate whether Shaq or Krstic will start; I could easily have reversed their "assignments."

If the Celts ever have the luxury of a second full-fledged practice since The Trade, I'd pay good money to watch the intra-squad competitions. One underrated way for the new guys to learn the system is to get burned a few times in practice.

By the way, my bet is that they haven't even instituted plays for Krstic or Green. Maybe Doc told each one to pick a favorite Oklahoma City play for the Celts to learn (as he did with Nate and the Knicks' plays last season). But, for the most part, this really is like preseason training for one-third of the team, and I can't wait to see what they'll be like when they start feeling more comfortable in the system.

I earnestly believe one of Doc's most difficult jobs is to keep Jeff Green on the bench in crunch time. We could see more of KG at center and Jeff at PF down the stretch, at least against certain teams. So far, his evolution with the team is even faster than I recall Havlicek's being. (Of course, Havlicek's evolution featured more of a defensive display at the outset.)

Sam

Sam

Three starting teams. Very interesting and a tribute to da adding layers of quality depth.

I think we will see green in the game down the stretch.

I just cannot wait to see this team fast break more often.

Dboss

April showers bring May flowers

This board absolutely supports the right of any member to voice any opinion that's within the bounds of propriety and is expressed civilly.

This board also supports the right of any member to take exception to said opinions, as long as it's done civilly and within the bounds of propriety.

Sometimes there can be a tendency to protest about being a victim of sanction for having a given opinion when it's not the person who is being criticized. It's the opinion with which exception is being taken. That is fair game on this board. And that's what I'm about to do.

There's been a lot of concern voiced about the current state of the Celtics. And with great justification. This team obviously has a long way to go in order to be a top contender for the championship.

My commentary deals with what I feel is a lack of reality underlying some of the more gloomy assessments of the team.

Ours is not the only team fighting fatigue. Not the only team fighting injuries. But I believe that the Celtics are the only team with a perfect storm of all five of the following concurrent conditions....in spades:

• fatigue

• a vast number of injuries

• lingering discontinuity, with a different lineup in almost every game

• a major disruption of shock and emotion with which to deal

• one-third of the team to integrate into a nucleus, half of which isn't currently available for integration purposes.

It's important to understand what it takes to integrate just one new player to a team. To say nothing of five simultaneously. To say nothing of the degree of difficulty with integrating them when the team is missing half the people with whom they're supposed to be integrated. To say nothing of the scarcity of full practices they're having.

The seventh game since The Trade is coming up. How many full practices have they had during that period? I've kept fairly careful track, and I'm pretty sure the number is three at this moment. To say nothing of the fact that, just as there's a different lineup for practically every game, there have been additions and/or subtractions of players at virtually every practice.

The current conditions are an awful scenario for integrating new people. Take Murphy as an example. People are concerned about whether he's going to be able to contribute. To contribute, he has to get into some kind of groove because he tends to be a streak shooter. Yet most of his minutes aren't even spent in his normal position because he's pressed into action as a center. How's that supposed to make him comfortable enough to get into a groove?

Take Arroyo as another example. He's playing two-thirds of his minutes, NOT learning how to run the bench offense but being pressed into action as an off-guard while Rondo gets overworked at PG.

Take Krstic as another example. Yes, he's being overmatched by some guys on the defensive end. Doc has defined what the problem is. The solution amounts to Nenad's adopting a more aggressive pattern in picking up his defensive assignment. Doc seems convinced he can do it. It will take time. It would probably take a shorter time if Doc could be more selective as to when to play Nenad with the best learning experience in mind. As it is, Nenad has to be pressed into action in situations where Shaq or Davis would normally be better alternatives.

Take Sasha as another example. One might ask why Sasha isn't playing the off-guard position instead of Arroyo. The reason is because Sasha's busy playing the SF position while Green is being pressed into action not as the Pierce substitute he was acquired to be (at least much of the time) but as a replacement for Murphy, who was supposed to be a replacement for Davis but is, instead, playing out of position at center.

It's important to grasp the wholesale game of musical positions they're playing out there, when they should be integrating new guys within an atmosphere of at least semi-normalcy. This is not baseball. New players must be integrated differently in basketball because this is the ultimately interactive sport.

Many people make the mistake of myopically viewing an injury primarily as costing the team the services of the injured player. It's FAR more than that, because the interactive nature of the sport forces other players to adjust in his absence. The new players don't even have the advantage of having established a norm with this team from which to adjust. So they're kind of feeling their way along in rag tag lineups, which is far from the ideal way to be integrated.

Doc has been quoted several times as emphasizing how the new guys are having to learn "on the run." He has to sneak in little lessons here and there. Recently, he said he was going to put the team through one of those three full practices on the day of a game. He said he realized they'd be fatigued by game time, but that was the chance he had to take in order to try to sneak in some teaching. He's currently operating from a position of distinct weakness.

It's all well and good to complain about the team's performance because they've won only five of their six games since The Trade. It's all well and good to gripe because certain players are overworked and, in the next breath, to bleat about the supreme importance of gaining home court advantage in the playoffs. It's all well and good to allude to the weakness of the teams they've been playing and assume those teams should be pushovers. That's bullcrap with a capital CRAP.

Other teams are filled with professionals. They delight in getting up for the elite teams. They see, in the Celtics, a team caught in transition, which almost automatically means areas of vulnerability exist. Even weak teams can sniff out areas of vulnerability so as to attack them. Finally, on the sixth try, one of them succeeded.

One attribute many weaker teams have that is particularly adept at taking advantage of vulnerabilities is athleticism. There's nothing like athleticism to gnaw away at a festering wound. That's precisely what Jordan did the other night.

I said much of this last year, and the responses were mostly negative. No, they're playing down to the level of the competition. No, they're bored. No, they're just not good enough and should be broken up. No, they're not trying out there. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ad infinitum.

The din became so ludicrous that I started a "glimmer thead," listing hopeful signs from each successive game that could potentially be built upon over time. The objective was to illustrate how enlightening it can be to eschew the easy path of gloom in favor of becoming sensitive to positive signs. The number of mostly non-redundant glimmers reached nearly 100. I'm not going to repeat the glimmer thread this year because, if the lesson didn't "take" last year.....screw it!

Instead, I'll take an easier route and simply repeat what turned out to be a reasonably prophetic remark (from a non-predicting guy) last season. To anyone who who might find it more comfortable to gravitate toward doubt and darkness rather than hope and vision, feel free to post your opinions on the board. And see me in April! No, wait. I'll be toasting April in Paris. See me in May!

Go Celtics!

Sam,
Nice try.
I hope you'll have swell time in Paris.
Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure, no matter the seeding, that Celtics will dispatch their opponent in the first round of playoffs. Even if they're at their current level. After that comes territory of hope: hope that RR is not playing through injury (as some suspect), hope that Shaq, BBD, DW are back at or close to 100%, hope that there're no new injuries to the key players.
I'm sure that all Celtics understand that this year is probably the last chance to get to the very top. Therefore the veteran core of the team will act accordingly: will play as if there's no tomorrow, and the rest of the team will follow.
As for current state of affairs, it's just a lot of frustration, IMO, that people vent. Similar to the last year.

AK

Sinus,

The situation with Rondo is indeed. My own guess (and it's only a guess) is that a combination of factors is combining to cause some malaise on his part:

• He has worked very hard, for several years, to achieve an inordinately high level of precision chemistry with his teammates. It has to be frustrating that, this late in this season, he has to get used to a somewhat different offensive system (and probably a tweaked defensive system as well)—to say nothing of five new teammates (each of whom has habits and needs that present a new challenge to a PG).

• The absence of Delonte West has meant added time and responsibility for Rondo, as he's had to spend part of his many minutes with a bench that is operating with new teammates playing out of position and without missing players who could help stabilize it. That has to be additionally frustrating, especially how that another PG has been obtained but has had to be pressed into service primarily as a SG.

• His personal relationship with Perk was purportedly one of the closest relationships on the team, which has to add to the frustration.

• The gradual learning and cohesion curve for the revamped team is still in its infancy and missing key elements, with the result that the play of the entire team has suffered. How many bunnies have been missed? How many passes have sailed through the hands of new players who were not ready for them. This has to be another source of frustration for the guy who's making a lot of those passes.

I understand that many fans might reason that Rondo is a well-paid professional who should darned well suck it up and perform his best. Those fans need to learn more about people. They seriously need to learn more about people.

Players are people first and professionals second. They have no exemption from the human condition, as many fans seem to believe. It's very possible that the combination of factors listed above (and possibly others of which we're not aware) has lowered the ceiling on Rondo's energies, concentration and creativity, despite what he might consider his best efforts to surmount the obstacles under the circumstances. I believe that, as the team develops more continuity and benefits from increased practices and time together, we'll find that Rondo's performance is magically improving at a similar pace.

I remember alluding, last season, to the instant gratification generation that is very prominent in today's society. I understand that fans can become just as frustrated as Rondo and need to vent their frustrations. I'm happy that this board can provide a venue for that.

I'm in no way censuring people for expressing their opinions. I'm simply attempting to add some perspective that I believe to be realistic and important in hopes that they'll think about incorporating some of it in their reasoning.

Sam

In agreement with what you have said Sam. It is obvious from watching Rondo, there is a change in his emotions. No matter what anyone thinks, losing such a close friend is hard for a young guy. However, there are times when he is on the court that he looks as if he is still learning the system.Holding the ball at the top of the key, bouncing around, and then being forced to take a shot that is of a low percentage. He sometimes just looks as if he is not in synch. When was the last time we saw an alley-oop to KG?

It will take a while for the new players to work their way into the offense/defense.
I know we only have 20 more games or so to do this. These guys will get it done, I truly believe it, and that is because Doc Rivers is at the head of all of them.

I am more than willing to wait for these new players to work their way in. I am excited about the end of the year. Who would have said their record would be as good as it is right now in the beginning of the season. Think Positive Celtic fans
the best is yet to come

Rosallie

PS-Sam, have a great time in Paris, I am jealous!!

Passion

At my stage of life, I find myself frequently rerunning the internal videos of my life as I try to figure out how I came to be whatever I am (for better or worse). One word constantly rises above all others. That word is passion.

Whether it involved school, or music, or work, or dealing with people, or sports, or travel, or virtually any area of life, I've always found that being passionate about something of importance to me was the only way to fly, come success or come failure.

And the one factor that most inexorably drilled that passionate ethic into me was being a fan of the Boston Celtics. For me and the hundreds of fans with whom I interacted in my formative years, there really seemed no other option.

We could never have been what I called "equivocators"—people who wanted to crow regardless of a given outcome so they'd be right either way. They would make bold statements with qualifiers, such as, "This team really sucks and is going down the tubes.....unless they wake up." That way, they could later say, "I told you so" if the team did poorly; and they could alternatively claim, "They woke up, so I was right" if the team did well. Such people might defend their equivocations with comments such as, "Gee, I deserve the right to my opinion." We felt they had issued an equivocation, not an opinion with any "teeth."

Basically, we felt that we'd have been hypocrites if we had expected the players to strap on a pair in times of adversity if we, as fans, didn't strap on a pair and go all in for our team. Our analytical natures certainly didn't ignore the team's failings. But we didn't dwell on those failings in favor of transmitting every possible erg of supportive energy to the team as they tried to overcome the failings. We didn't have to predict success where we feared failure. (Perhaps that's where I developed my aversion for predictions). We simply took a leap of faith/hope that seemed to be a natural artifact of passion. If things work out, celebrate. If things didn't work out, congratulate the opponent and go on to the next beneficiary of our passion.

I know many people like to hear stories about the past. So this is just a little reminiscing, apropos of nothing, by an old guy.

Sam

Believe it or not, the past is what keeps fans like myself coming back for more and more. The Boston Celtics have given me so much joy throughout the years that I always think they will continue to do so. Have I been disappointed at times? You bet, but the good times have far outweighed the bad for me. So, Sam, I will live with my memories and continue to build new ones with whoever is playing for them at the time. I will forever live in the past every now and then, but I embrace the future and what it will bring as I move on in life. They always have been and always will be the reason people who knew me then and now, still refer to me as that "crazy Boston Celtic fanatic". "Won't you ever give up????" NOT I.

Rosalie

Sam, if you heart any good stories from an "old guy" please pass them along. In the meantime I certainly do enjoy hearing stories from you.

Rosie, Sam

As the Late Jimmy V said "Don't give up.............don't ever give up."

He also said it is important to do three things every day, laugh love and cry.

For a man whom knew he had a death sentence he showed the courage to face it head on, far more then some of the courage we see on here as Celtic fans that appear to have already thrown in the towel. Sure there are tough times, sure there are disapointments, to many to count, some like the Bias tragedy still are an open wound to always wonder what might have been.


I use this story a lot when dealing with my cases on probation. I tell them to move ahead with there life and compare it to driving a car. The front winshield is where most of our focus is, as well it should be for that is the direction we are heading. But to the sides of the car and near the top of the winshield are the mirrors to show us where we have been.

These people need to reflect from time to time on what was wrong in their lives so that with some effort moving ahead, they can avoid the repeats of past mistakes.

None of us know what tomorrow holds, 112288, Jeb, and others are all facing issues that far outweigh the simple problems presented by this team. Should we fail I will be proud of our attempt and look towards next year.

I'm right with you two on this no one on here will ever shake my faith in this team plain and simple.

beat

Thanks Beat, it is nice to know that not everyone thinks you are crazy!! I am sure NYCelt feels the same way. You won't ever have to worry about me, I will never give up!!!!!

Don't worry, a couple of wins and everyone will be jumping right back on the bandwagon. Life is great when you are a Celtic's fan!

Rosalie

Rosie

with the exception of couple of notable "fair weather " fans most us on here can deal with the adversity of a couple losses. C's have won many titles without home court and many road games in the playoffs. Court is the same size baskets are all 10* feet..............refs suck everywhere.

Worried..................some, but no more than normal
Concerned..............always


beat

* I do remember a time when Red had a 10 foot stick to check a rim somewhere that he felt was off............did it right before the game. Walked right out there......probably as much of a mind game as a real issue.

beat

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Thanks Beat, it is nice to know that not everyone thinks you are crazy!! I am sure NYCelt feels the same way. You won't ever have to worry about me, I will never give up!!!!!

Don't worry, a couple of wins and everyone will be jumping right back on the bandwagon. Life is great when you are a Celtic's fan!

Rosalie

Rosalie,

I'm with you all the way!

Regards

Beat,

I'm pretty sure Cousy and Sharman told Red the basket was just a tad too high or too low. I believe the measurement actually proved them wrong. But Red got to play his mind game in an opponent's gym.

Different people have different ways of being fans. I wasn't trying to call anyone out. It's just that the last few days have made me realize anew how fortunate I have been to have been brought up with a "damn the torpedoes, and full speed ahead" mentality. And obviously I'm definitely not alone.

Sam

Practice Makes Perfect

Based on comments by Doc, the Celtics have about 24 "good" practices during a typical regular season. By "good," I mean practices that go beyond a simple shootaround, walk through, or preparation for an upcoming. In my view, a "good" practice consists of a combination tutorial, honing, and corrective activities.

Since 24 practices represents just a shade under 30% of the number of games (82) in a regular season, a good rule of thumb is that, for every 10 games they play, the team has 3 "good" practices. That would mean the Celts have had 4 "good" practices since "The Trade" (and perhaps 3 since some of the other spare parts came to town). Four post-trade practices is a number that seems consistent with what I've been able to glean from newspaper reports.

The more seasoned a team is (which would describe the Lakers and Spurs with an uninjured Duncan), the more a "good" practice can focus on corrections...basically tweaking here and there to fine tune the system and identify ways to make something that's already good even better.

The more inexperienced a team is, the more they have to concentrate on tutoring younger players, focusing on defense (which has often been a missing ingredient in their college days), helping them to adjust to NBA disciplines, etc. Rebuilding teams often fit into this category.

Between these two extremes is the "honing" category. This describes the team that has experience but, for one reason or another, needs help in putting it all together to achieve a higher level of play. In my estimation, this is where the Celtics stand at present.

So it was with interest that I read that the Celtics held a "good" practice yesterday. Apparently the 90 minutes were filled with spirited play during which they almost literally had to drag KG off the floor for even a brief rest.

In the report on the practice (see link below), Ray mentioned that they usually play better after a practice. So it will be particularly interesting to note the Celtics' performance against a marginal opponent tonight. My own focus will be on starting out strong, being aggressive on offense, and not allowing Charlotte's perimeter shooters to make the game closer than it should be.

Glen Davis mentions, in the report, that the Celts have 4 more regular season practice left. I'm not sure whether or not he means "good" practices by this comment. But I hope so, because that would be a little higher proportion (36%) of the remaining 11 games than the normal practice/game ratio.

Having been fortunate enough to attend more than 100 Celtics' practices back when that was allowed, I am a huge believer in the value of "good" practices...for both the player and (in those days) the fan. In fact, I would estimate that no less than 50% of whatever small amount I have been privileged to learn about NBA basketball came from attending practices and then tracking the ability of the team to apply practice learning to actual games.

I recall, in 1969, that many practices would end in running a play on which Sam Jones wound up shooting from behind a triple screen. But, at the time, I thought it was just a ritual...sort of like Havlicek (and Cousy before him) shooting two layups at the end of every pregame warmup. Because they never used that play in a game.

It was only while driving home after the excitement of the Finals game four win that I suddenly realized they had finally unveiled that play for what I will maintain to my death was the single most important shot in Celtics history.

Anyway, here's the link to that Boston Globe piece, in case anyone's interested.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2011/03/25/the_push_is_on_at_practice/

Go Celtics!

Sam

Starters with Krstic Have Much Better Point Differential than Starters with Shaq, Davis, Perk

It's well known that I feel the +/- stat is virtually useless in comparing individual players because the stat is produced by combinations of five players, not by individuals. But, in comparing one combination of players with another combination of players, the +/- stat does a good job of incorporating both offense and defense as long as the number of minutes played together is taken into account.

82games.com provides data on the number of minutes played together by various player combinations and the the total number of points gained or lost versus opponents by the same combinations. I have taken the total +/- figure for four each of combinations and divided them by the number of minutes played together by each combination.

Following are the average points gained on the competition for each minute each of the listed combinations have played together this season:

Krstic, KG, Pierce, Ray, Rondo: +.568 points per minute
Shaq, KG, Pierce, Ray, Rondo: +.381 points per minute
Davis, KG, Pierce, Ray, Rondo: +.262 points per minute
Perk, KG, Pierce, Ray, Rondo: +260 points per minute

I'm not commenting on these figures, as I'll let more knowledgeable posters handle that. I'll just mention that 82games.com tends to run a game or two behind in the figures they publish. And these figures are for all minutes played together, whether at the beginning of a game or later in the game. So, for example, the stat includes minutes played down the stretch by Davis plus four starters.

Sam

As they say Sam, Practice makes perfect, right???? I don't know what to make
of this article, what are they telling us, that the Celtics really don't have a chance to set things straight and move along into the playoffs at a good , if not great speed?

I, too, remember that shot by Sam, although I was only privy to a few Celtic practices when they were down at the Maritime Academy and preseason was right ahead of them. But, it was a beautiful shot! There was a piece this year about John Havlicek mapping out a play for Doc during the preseason. I wonder if it might have been that shot?

Anyway, I do feel the time is now for the regulars to start putting their best foot forward and ending the season on a positive note. It might make alot of fans feel better about them and, of course, "the trade". With the reports of Shaq getting cortiesone shots in his foot, the fans are a little nervous about the post season. I agree that Baby is an important cog in the wheel
of this team, however, I feel he really belongs on that second team, working with them all and getting them in playoff mode.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts!

Rosalie, Sam

As I see it really comes down to the offense and getting reps with each other which is damn near impossible during the stretch run and still try to win games. Questions like Shaq and JO's health are seeming always around the corner...........then we get to the corner and fins out thers is still another.

Just appears we are a little out of sync, shots that usually drop are being missed........sometimes by a lot. We do appear to be getting it better on D but holding a team to under 90 doesn't do a lot when you have trouble getting to 90 yourself.


I gave myself a 2 day leave of absence here after the (not sure what word to use) 4th quarter stinker we put out the other eve............and here I went and said we'd score 33...........frig we didn't even get half that.

Oh well, no need to scuttle the ship, but it would be nice to mop the decks with a couple of these teams.

beat