Straight from Sam's Shoulder (SSS)

NEVER GIVE UP - to me it should be every Celtics' fans' motto.

i sometimes watch games with a friend who cringes, paces, puts his hat in front of his face and otherwise goes through gyrastic emotional contortions at each bad bounce or missed assignment. in short, he watches all of the action with FEAR as his primary emotion.

i can't imagine watching any game like that (or living life like that, for that matter.) poor guy. for me, it's about riding the thrill, taking the enjoyment, holding on to a fundamental belief in this team, the belief and faith that anything is possible - that a WIN is possible, even down to the final seconds.

i hope that the "good practices" give this mixed new-and-old group a chance to come together, learn some of what they need to learn, and use that to produce on both ends during the next few games -- getting us ready for another eventful and promising post-season. we do need both our offense and our defense in better synch. i don't know, were i the coach, which one i'd pick to focus on, but the ability to score, when we need to score, has to be right up there. (agree with beat). and it has to be more than, let Paul do it. T-E-A-M !!

go Celtics

Michael

bigpygme wrote:NEVER GIVE UP - to me it should be every Celtics' fans' motto.

Michael

Michael

Thus sayith my avatar!

beat

Beat

I read the book on Jimmie V regular and it often brings me to tears. I look at what I am facing and say quit being such a wimp. I dont know yet why I am so sick but if i see a chance to do some good with it I am gonna try. Your avatar is beautiful and worthy of our deepest respect.

Jeb

Jeb

Still love to listen to that speech he gave. Regardless of the outcome of this season, when it is done I will be no less or more of a fan than I am now, and I will look forward to the challenge of rooting again next season.

I know there are probably times when your scared, alone, the world is caving in around you ect. The Guy upstairs will give you the strength you need for today................and when tomorrow comes he'll do it again.

Sometimes we all need to be reminded that our troubles are small compaired to someone like yourself, just saw this piece about a 12 year old girl who's only wish was to play a real game of basketball with her friends.


http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Middle-schooler-postpones-amputation-to-fulfill-?urn=highschool-wp345

Love Ya Jeb

beat

Beat

Man what a great story. I read it 3 times. I stand in awe of the courage people show. Your man Jimmie V showed all the guts in the world.

It is a flawed but oh so beautiful world.

Love you back.

Jeb

to Jeb, beat and ALL Celtics fans ...
NEVER GIVE UP !!!!!!!

Bygpyg

I am a long assed way from giving up. The days are filled with pain and the threat of a pretty young death looms over my head all the time. BUT I am flat fighting this crap and so far holding my own. Anyway Sam has a beautiful thread here and I didnt mean to hijack it. Beat just got me going with Jimmie V. That speech he gave means the world to me right now and I read it every damn day (it's in the bathroom!)

And trust me I will NEVER give up on the Celts. I will keep believing in them til they chuck me in the clay.

Jeb

jeb wrote:Bygpyg

I am a long assed way from giving up. Jimmie V. - That speech he gave means the world to me right now and I read it every damn day (it's in the bathroom!)

And trust me I will NEVER give up on the Celts. I will keep believing in them til they chuck me in the clay.

Jeb

as i will never give up on you, my friend ...
and i don't believe you hijacked the thread ... but we can back to talking about the value of integrity and continuity in the line up and of good practices now, and get ready for tonight's battle.

Michael

Jeb-a few years ago my husband and I had to bury a dear, dear, dear friend who died at 53 years of age. His wife asked me to do his eulogy, and finding the words were so, so hard. However, I remembered a wonderful poem I had read many, many years ago. It was entitled "Who would walk a mile with me".
As I read that poem at the end of my eulogy, I knew I would never forget those words. If you have a chance to find that poem, read it and know that everyone of your Celtic friends are walking this mile with you, every day. We worry when we don't hear from you, and know that you are in our minds and hearts.

As I have told you many many times, keep up the good fight, the end result will be worth the battle. Never, ever think you are bringing us down by your presence, believe me, I look forward every day to seeing some small post from you about how you are doing. Keep your chin up, that lovely wife of yours, I am sure is standing right beside you in this fight.

Love
Rosalie

Rosie t

SOmetimes my days are so damn grim inregards to the physical realities that I feel posting would be a bad ideal. I dont ever want to bum the board out or bring it down and my situation is so heavy right now. My wife has been a rock so you are right about that. I really appreciate the kindness of your words. You are one of my fav posters around here.

There has never been any doubt about the support of everyone here at Sam's and man i damn sure appreciate it.

It is hard for me to watch the Celtics right now cause I hate to see them struggling and I just get so damn mad! I know I need to work on that but geeze i guess a little pain is the cost of caring!

Much love to you Rosalie.

Jeb

Rosalie, is this the poem?

Sam

A Mile With Me

O who will walk a mile with me
Along life's merry way?
A comrade blithe and full of glee,
Who dares to laugh out loud and free,
And let his frolic fancy play,
Like a happy child, through the flowers gay
That fill the field and fringe the way
Where he walks a mile with me.

And who will walk a mile with me
Along life's weary way?
A friend whose heart has eyes to see
The stars shine out o'er the darkening lea,
And the quiet rest at the end o' the day,--
A friend who knows, and dares to say,
The brave, sweet words that cheer the way
Where he walks a mile with me.

With such a comrade, such a friend,
I fain would walk till journeys end,
Through summer sunshine, winter rain,
And then?--Farewell, we shall meet again!

Henry Van Dyke

Rosalie,

Yes, that was the play. Actually, Havlicek and Siggy got together at a practice that was missed by Coach Russell, and they got the team to try it. It was an Ohio State play. The first time they tried it, they took 25 seconds to run it, and it was designed for either 5 or 7 seconds (I can't recall which).

When Russ heard about it, the fact that it took so long didn't exactly endear him to it, but he agreed to keep practicing it. It took them all year long to get it down to 5 seconds, and that's how many seconds were left on the clock, with the Celtics one point behind, when they started the play.

The play tied the series 2-2, going back to L.A. If they had fallen behind in the series 3-1, the balloons might have been dropped after game 5, which they lost at L.A.

By the way, it was a steal by Emmette Bryant that made the play possible. Of all the guys who ever played for the Celtics, Emmette might be the most overlooked hero because the Celtics also wouldn't have come close to winning game 7 without his massive first quarter, which set the Lakers back on their heels and made them play catchup throughout the game.

We could use a fast start like that tonight...and every night.

Sam

Yes Sam, that was the poem. I still love every word of it, and my husband and I try to lead our lives just like that. When you have us for a friend, you have us for life. I just want Jeb to realize that we are all here pulling for him every day. Sometimes, even though you can't see the people, knowing they are there gives you so much strength.

Thanks for finding it for Jeb

Rosalie

Hell no, I won't give up...This is my team...Love to watch them, win or lose, they almost always entertain. How many fekin times has this team given me some kind of thrill. Other teams come and go for me, but the C's, well the C's are special...gotta love em, I'm green to the end.

The X Factor

As the playoff prospects slowly begin to unfold, there are many issues that will be resolved over time. One of them is what I call the "X Factor." Other people may have their own definitions of an "X Factor." My own definition is a player who assumes a critical, and often unforeseen, role as an ongoing difference maker. The word "ongoing" is important, because I am not alluding to a one-shot hero such as Gene Guaralia, Glen MacDonald, or Gerald Henderson. I'm referring to a player who can fill an extemporaneous role or seize an unexpected opportunity to harass the opponent again and again.

In my estimation, Bill Walton, 1986, would be a poster boy as an "X Factor." But it need not be only a bench player who is an "X Factor." In my opinion, the way in which Paul Pierce carried the team on his shoulders to the 2009 championship was over and above what might have been foreseen. IF Perk had been healthy for all of games six and/or seven last year, he might have been an "X Factor.'

It is looking as though the Celtics could well have the luxury of three "X Factors" in these playoffs: Glen Davis, Delonte West, and Jeff Green.

• Each of these guys can be a difference-maker at two positions and can present matchup problems at each of those positions.

• Each can fill in (if necessary) as elements of the first team.

• The role of each has been a bit murky at times this season (for various reasons) and could take an unexpected turn quickly and importantly in the playoffs.

• Each can contribute offensively from the outside or by going to the hoop.

• Davis and West are solid defensive presences, and Green seems to be making strides in that direction.

• These three guys ooze versatility.

In short, any or all of the three could suddenly emerge as round pegs confronting an enemy of square holes....black chromatics on an opponent's ivory keyboard..."X Factors" for which the bad guys have no easy answer.

Neither the Celtics nor the other team will possess anything close to 100% of the advantages in playoff games. Each will be attempting to leverage its strengths to take advantage of the other's weaknesses. Much of the debate in which we now engage involves those very predictable strengths and weaknesses.

But the one matter we cannot readily debate is an "X Factor," because we have no idea how or when it may materialize to capitalize on opportunities. Even the coaches may have no clue at this juncture.

I'm just glad to be the fan of a team that has three potential "X Factor" catalysts, who will be available to make differences in a variety of ways—at least some of which could be surprising.

Sam

Great post Sam, seems everybody on the board in 2 threads want to see more from Green, the guy is just so athletic and skilled, he can do more than Ray and is faster and gets up higher than Pierce. I think he was in the wrong position at Oklahoma, hes a natural tall 3, he was taking it to Danny Granger no problem in a game I was marveling at earlier and Granger is no defensive slouch. I would love to see him used as Vinnie Johnson was on the old Piston teams, as soon as he comes in just go right to him, let him take it to them. Sometimes we have a tendency to overpass and turn the ball over, I wouldn't mind seeing some isolation, more post up sprinkled in.

Cow,

As much as it occasionally looks as though Green is struggling to find his niche, the ease with which he accomplishes some things is amazing. Almost as though he's toying with the game.

When he first arrived, I said he reminded me physically of Len Bias. I can now say that the things he can do on the court make me think of what Bias might have accomplished.

I agree that I'd like to see him as a full-time SF. However, the only prayer the Celtics have of keeping him around until that's possible is to have him play PF as well. Because he's not going to supplant Pierce, and he's not going to get enough SF minutes off the bench to satisfy him.

I think Jeff could play the SG position too. With both Ray and Paul a year older, I would see Paul and Jeff playing in tandem next year, with either playing either SF or SG while Ray rests. Of course, Delonte might have something to say about that too. All of a sudden, after suffering from a dearth of wings, the Celtics now have a profusion of them (including Wafer).

Actually, of the three guys I mentioned (Green, West, Davis), I think Jeff has the potential to be the biggest surprise come the playoffs. I like the fact that he seems to be becoming more assertive in the offensive end. When Delonte scored on that attempted alley-oop, he threw the "pass" only because Jeff pointed upward.

When a guy has a nose for the hoop like Green does, has the size and hops of Jeff, can fill a lane and finish like Jeff does, and works as hard as he does to improve his defense, he's definitely a long-term keeper. And he provides a dimension that has been lacking on the Celtics for a long time.

I would definitely relish the style of Celtics basketball that Davis, Green and Rondo could play together indefinitely. A mix of mayhem and magic. I'd like to put Delonte in that group too, if he weren't so prone to injury. I could see that bunch becoming veteran, cold-blooded assassins if put together with a decent center and the right group of complementary players.

Sam

Sam,

I think I get what you are saying. Usually an X Factor may bring one strong tangible/intangible to the table. But this trio almost has a shape-shifter presence (your use of the word "ooze" perfectly describes their ability to "fill in the cracks" where needed.

Not to mention the problems this will wreak on opposing playoff teams game plans. This could be priceless. This may be why we are where we are overall because our line up and team have been is such flux since the opening tip-off in Game 1. Teams simply don't know what we are going to put on the floor, hence advantage Celtics.

These three guys don't have to be the Jack of All Trades Master of None. They just have to be above average at their jobs no matter where they are needed. And these guys provide that in spades.

Jeff Green - versatile PF or SF, or as suggested SG too. Intangible - young legs and plenty of time to develop the Rondo/Green two-man game tandem.

Delonte - PG or SG. Intagible - rock solid experience, trustworthy with the ball.

GD - PF, SF, C if necessary and intagible secondary motivator/Dave Cowens-type to KG.

Let the playoff confusion begin for our opponents!

D,

It will be helpful if Doc "knows what we are going to put on the floor." lol.

So much of the angst I've read on the board and elsewhere focuses on what we're lacking (or might be lacking come playoff time). Every team has some vulnerability. The key is to have enough strengths to occupy opponents so much that they have have difficulty focusing on your vulnerabilities.

It's the same principle as making a great offensive player play such difficult defense that he expends energy, thereby weakening his offensive game. In other words, it pays to keep the enemy back on his heels.

People sometimes call me an optimist because I tend to focus on positives about the Celtics. They're selling me short by a wide margin. I'm not ignoring Celtics weaknesses; but I'm focusing on the positives the Celts can use to mitigate those weaknesses. It's a key strategy.

I believe the "X Factor" trio of Davis, Green and West is one (or three) of those positives.

Sam

Believe it or not, as much as I believe that three could be the "X" factor for the Celts, the one person I truly believe will be truly important could be JO. If, by any chance, there are 15 plus minutes a game that he can give us defensively I believe all the crying about Perk will be moot. On top of that, he can do things offensively that Perk never did. I know, I know, he is worn out, been out a long time and there is a big question mark beside his name daily. But, what he could bring to the table could be PJ Brown like or more. Call me an optimist, but this is how I truly feel. Also, 10-15 minutes from Shaq and it's a different team on the floor.

I will give the young guys a tip of the hat, but I think it's the old ones who are going to get us to the mountain top!

Believe it or not, as much as I believe that three could be the "X" factor for the Celts, the one person I truly believe will be truly important could be JO. If, by any chance, there are 15 plus minutes a game that he can give us defensively I believe all the crying about Perk will be moot. On top of that, he can do things offensively that Perk never did. I know, I know, he is worn out, been out a long time and there is a big question mark beside his name daily. But, what he could bring to the table could be PJ Brown like or more. Call me an optimist, but this is how I truly feel. Also, 10-15 minutes from Shaq and it's a different team on the floor.

I will give the young guys a tip of the hat, but I think it's the old ones who are going to get us to the mountain top!

Rosalie, I agree about JO. I think the dimensions of his potential (if he's healthy) are fairly well-known, whereas Glen, Jeff and Delonte could surprise us more in what they might provide.

But the Celtics will certainly need major contributions from the "old ones" in order to have a shot.

Sam

Sam, Jeff Green is athletic and has the versatility to play multiple positions, but I don't think that makes him comparable to Len Bias. Bias was a man among boys in college, one of the more dominant college players I've seen. He was a combination of power, athleticism, and skill that is exceptionally rare, and he tended to play toward the power end of the scale. Although Green can play the power forward spot, he is not a power player, and his blend of skill and athleticism could be called "finesse."

The only reason Bias was taken second in the 1986 draft was because no GM wanted to break the "take a quality big guy above a quality smaller guy" rule, and Brad Daugherty went first. (That's also why Michael Jordan went third in the 1984 draft behind Hakeem Olajuwon and Sam Bowie.) Maneuvering to take Bias second in the draft was another major coup for Red Auerbach. He knew how good Bias was and that Bias could extend the championship opportunities for the Celtics, and Auerbach was not alone in that assessment (I know I felt that way). As most people know, Bias's death was a crushing blow that affected the franchise for years.

In comparison, Green was taken fifth in the 2007 draft, behind Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Al Horford, and Mike Conley. If you wanted to revise the draft, he would probably also go behind Joakim Noah and maybe Wilson Chandler. Rather than considering him a franchise cornerstone, the Celtics immediately traded him after drafting him as part of the Ray Allen deal. Rather than considering him a franchise cornerstone, the Thunder traded him, Nenad Krstic, and the Clippers' first round pick in 2012 to get Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson.

Bias was considered a truly special player, like Kevin Durant. Green was and still is considered a good player, like Mike Conley and Wilson Chandler.

For the statistically inclined (and statistics don't encapsulate Bias's "wow" factor), here are Bias's statistics at Maryland.

. . . . . . . MIN . FG% . FT% . RPG APG .TPG .BPG .SPG . PPG
82-83 . . 22.0 . 47.8 . 63.6 . 4.2 . 0.7 . 1.1 . 0.5 . 0.3 . .7.2
83-84 . . 34.5 . 56.7 . 76.7 . 4.5 . 1.5 . 1.5 . 0.8 . 0.4 . 15.3
84-85 . . 36.5 . 52.8 . 77.7 . 6.8 . 1.8 . 3.1 . 0.9 . 0.9 . 18.9
85-86 . . 37.0 . 54.4 . 86.4 . 7.0 . 1.0 . 2.8 . 0.4 . 0.8 . 23.2

Green's statistics at Georgetown:

. . . . . . . MIN . FG% . FT% . RPG APG .TPG .BPG .SPG . PPG
04-05 . . 33.8 . 50.2 . 69.9 . 6.6 . 2.9 . 2.5 . 1.6 . 1.0 . 13.1
05-06 . . 32.5 . 44.5 . 62.4 . 6.5 . 3.3 . 2.5 . 1.0 . 0.9 . 11.9
06-07 . . 33.3 . 51.3 . 77.5 . 6.4 . 3.2 . 2.6 . 1.2 . 0.8 . 14.3

Green is a fine player, but his NBA career at this point is mostly about his potential, the kind of player he might develop into. At OKC, he was considered good but somewhat underachieving. We'll never know how good Bias would've been in the NBA, but I'd place his potential impact far above Green's. Green is a fine player, seems like a fine young man, and has the potential to develop into someone who can play at an all-star level. Bias was something special.

Anyone interested in Bias's "wow" factor can search on his name at YouTube. Here's one sample.



Outside

Outside,

I agree that stats don't tell the whole story. The ones you showed suggest that, over the first three of their respective college years, Green was a better rebounder, more of a team player (assists), a slightly better defender (combining blocks and steals), and an equal scorer.

I said that, initially, Green reminded me physically of Bias. That may have been slightly off, as Green is an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than Len was. But I view both of them as having legitimate wing height and yet the speed and grace to fill lanes and finish emphatically.

I also said that some things Jeff does remind me of what Len might have been able to do as a pro. I had in mind, in particular, being an offensive threat inside, outside, and on the break. Lenny may have had somewhat more of a power game, but Jeff seems pretty comfortable playing the post and using those 25 extra pounds to go to the hoop with authority.

I also never implied that being able to play multiple positions made Jeff Green comparable to Len Bias. They were unrelated comments. And I never compared Jeff Green's total game with that of Len Bias. For one thing, I have no idea how Lenny would have performed on defense in the pros, and I also believe Jeff will improve on "D" as a Celtic. I don't believe draft positions have much of anything to do with comparing players because it's what they do after the draft that counts. Just ask Glen Davis.

In summary, I was talking only about my early impressions of Jeff Green as a Celtic, and I continue to maintain that he's physically similar to Bias and is demonstrating proficiency in many of the same categories as Bias did.

Sam

Sam:

Bias was chisled like a Greek God (Adonis)-Green is well built, but he'd have been knocked into the second row of seats or splattered on the court if he ran into Bias with any head of steam. Bias was a bigger stronger more muscular version of Jordan's physique in his later years who could sky with Michael in his 80's years. Bias could have won dunk contests with Jordan, Erving, & Wilkins in the 80's had he survived!

MD.