Re: Perk Trade Actuality!

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:29 pm

Marc spears of Yahoo was just on Comcast a half hour ago, supposedly, Golden State is hedging on buying out Troy Murphy. Leon has already been
bought out and is interested in coming back.

I certainly hope this is not the only move that Danny will be able to make
after trading away Perk. I will admit, the more I thought about it, the more it did make some sense. I still would like to see him here in Green, but not for the money he may be looking for. 2012 is a big year, why would Danny want to tie up more money than he has to to sign him when there are more players coming out then, plus Garnett coming off the books and possibly?
Ray.

A couple of good games and I think things will start looking a little better.

by **swedeinestonia** Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:35 pm

An underused way of defending against Howard is to get him into foul trouble. He does not seem to be the smartest with his fould and he spent a lot of time on the bench last year against Charlotte in the playoffs (If I remember correctly).

A more offensively talented center might not only make up for some of the points Howard would be making (which are still better than their freaking rain of 3s) but also challenge him to take more fouls.

Disclaimer for this being a totally stupid idea though Very Happy

by **TickTock** Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:54 pm

I actually think that's a very valid point Swede. Getting Howard in foul trouble would really hinder the Magic. I also think it's important not to forget that when we have Rondo,Pierce,KG,Shaq, and Allen on the court we probably have 4 Hall of Famers on the court (too early to tell with Rondo obviously) and that NO other team in the NBA can say that. In the end its about having the best team not the best player.

by **NYCelt** Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:09 pm

TickTock wrote: In regards to the trade, who besides Howard would Perkins have been a major asset against? I liked Perk as much as anybody but what we lose on defense with Perk we may well make up in offense with Kristic/Baby/Shaq/Buyout. Although i admit banking on the health of the O'Neal's is taking a huge risk but so was banking on Perkins to remain healthy for the remainder of this season and the future.

TickTock,

I know it's a rhetorical question, but can't resist answering anyway; almost no-one. Good points.

I think you're right about various risks associated with O'Neal/O'Neal and Perkins. Even with those possible (O'Neal x2) shortcomings, if our center rotation ends up being Krstic/Davis I like our odds of being much quicker and stronger out on the perimeter offensively and defensively with those two and Green in the mix. Personally I have my doubts about JO playing again this season if ever and about getting much from Shaq, and I'm still good with this. We should be able to maintain a good offensive rhythm through the first and second unit and we may not end up sacrificing much defensively either, thanks to the critical pieces still being there for the team's defensive scheme that has worked so well this season.

Hey, maybe our new center-by-committee rotation for the remaining regular season games will be Krstic/Davis/Johnson/Shaq (Or Krstic/Johnson/Shaq with Davis at 4 and Green at 3 on the second unit...very nice sounding!). Who would have ever come up with that possibility? Shooting, inside scoring, shot-blocking and rebounding; low-post presence plus more...I'd gladly go with it!

Regards

by **Pumpsie Green** Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:19 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Marc spears of Yahoo was just on Comcast a half hour ago, supposedly, Golden State is hedging on buying out Troy Murphy. Leon has already been
bought out and is interested in coming back.

I certainly hope this is not the only move that Danny will be able to make
after trading away Perk. I will admit, the more I thought about it, the more it did make some sense. I still would like to see him here in Green, but not for the money he may be looking for. 2012 is a big year, why would Danny want to tie up more money than he has to to sign him when there are more players coming out then, plus Garnett coming off the books and possibly?
Ray.

A couple of good games and I think things will start looking a little better.

Getting someone for Perkins certainly makes sense for the future of the team, but the way it went down, IMO its not going to help the present team at all. I wonder how DA would have handled this had Perkins either been under contract or if negotiations had gone better for signing a new one. Does he still go after Green and Krystic? I doubt it. If DA claimed that this trade was done so we could be more competitive this year, I think thats a bit disingenuous.

by **TickTock** Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:31 pm

Fully agree NYCelt,

I absolutely think we could get by with Kristic/Davis/Johnson/Shaq. I for one am not panicking about this season or thinking that Dany destroyed a shot at number 18 this year. I think the main reason for the panic was that the trade came from nowhere and basically all smacked us upside the head. Now that we've all had some time to digest it I think we are seeing some of the positives of the deal. Getting younger and more athletic with Green and being more prepared to guard the Heat and Spurs. My main concern is actually with chemistry and health more so than the roster. Now comes the hard part as a fan, waiting. Hopefully the new guys all mesh well together with the current roster. Looking forward to seeing how they respond tomorrow after the loss and with the new guys.

by **Matty** Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:05 pm

#1, Tick Tock, a belate welcome to the board/family

#2 yesterday i made mention shortly after this trade i needed a drink and then to let the dust settle. when i said that i had no plans to follow yesterdays events any further.

things didnt allow me to have as many drinks/as soon as i liked, but eventualy the time came and i had more than enuff to "get the job done" making staying functional fr the game last night became impossible..

so i had my drinks and the dust has settled, read the pro's and con's & i have to say, 24+ i'm not convinced this was a good move, Im just not convinced that without Perk's presence these others can help us win #18..

Looking past my fear we cant do it this yr, there is a a fear of what next season will bring. Losing Perk this season also means we're preety much out of contention to deal for him next yr.. where does he land? There are several places i'd be down right scared to see him end up at..

then what are our options next season for aquiring a quality 5? Will Shaq &/or JO be aboard for yet another season? If not, our options are limited, the MLE, LLE and i think the Bi-annual exceptions will be what we can offer- or do we expect to land a quality player with the 28,29th or 30th pick in the first round?

even a drunken stupor wasnt enuff to settle down my fears.. anyone think they can offer me some more positve aspects not already mentioned that i can reflect on? Im still in the "i think i am gonna puke" stage..

by **cowens/oldschool** Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:25 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Marc spears of Yahoo was just on Comcast a half hour ago, supposedly, Golden State is hedging on buying out Troy Murphy. Leon has already been
bought out and is interested in coming back.

I certainly hope this is not the only move that Danny will be able to make
after trading away Perk. I will admit, the more I thought about it, the more it did make some sense. I still would like to see him here in Green, but not for the money he may be looking for. 2012 is a big year, why would Danny want to tie up more money than he has to to sign him when there are more players coming out then, plus Garnett coming off the books and possibly?
Ray.

A couple of good games and I think things will start looking a little better.

and how you gonna feel if we start a losing streak?right now our starting center could be Nenad Kristic.......geez

by **Pumpsie Green** Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:32 pm

Matty wrote:#1, Tick Tock, a belate welcome to the board/family

#2 yesterday i made mention shortly after this trade i needed a drink and then to let the dust settle. when i said that i had no plans to follow yesterdays events any further.

things didnt allow me to have as many drinks/as soon as i liked, but eventualy the time came and i had more than enuff to "get the job done" making staying functional fr the game last night became impossible..

so i had my drinks and the dust has settled, read the pro's and con's & i have to say, 24+ i'm not convinced this was a good move, Im just not convinced that without Perk's presence these others can help us win #18..

Looking past my fear we cant do it this yr, there is a a fear of what next season will bring. Losing Perk this season also means we're preety much out of contention to deal for him next yr.. where does he land? There are several places i'd be down right scared to see him end up at..

then what are our options next season for aquiring a quality 5? Will Shaq &/or JO be aboard for yet another season? If not, our options are limited, the MLE, LLE and i think the Bi-annual exceptions will be what we can offer- or do we expect to land a quality player with the 28,29th or 30th pick in the first round?

even a drunken stupor wasnt enuff to settle down my fears.. anyone think they can offer me some more positve aspects not already mentioned that i can reflect on? Im still in the "i think i am gonna puke" stage..

I wouldn't make the assumption that we are out of the running for Perkins next year Matty. I think he genuinely liked it here. I also think that he is not worth what he thinks he is worth and is going to find that out come free agency time. Could be he may "settle' for what the C's offer him.

by **112288** Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 pm

One positive spin that I'll throw out is the fact that often our bench gave away leads that our first unit built. I think Sam touched on this earlier about picking points up. I think now we have a beast of a bench who can either retain or increase our leads from the first unit.

Second Team: West(pg), Wafer(sg), Green(sf), Baby(pf) and Kristi, JON(c)

Rotate a few of the starters with this second unit and it = Points, defense and speed.

112288

PS

Danny can get perk back next year after they see what the CBA rules are, maybe the original offer this year by Celtics will be better then what could be offered in July or when they settle.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:38 pm

Patience is a virtue, so it is said, so I will try very hard not only to be patient but confident that Danny Ainge would do nothing to hinder his legacy here in Boston as General Manager. Why in the world would you think that supposedly four HOF players would allow this team to spiral out of control over the loss of one guy. They are old enough to know that this is all part of the game. Where were the guarantees that Perk would show the Celtics any loyalty and sign with them again next year?
I refuse to start to panic.

by **NYCelt** Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:39 pm

Matty,

You know I love you man, or maybe it's your avatar, whichever, but don't let this make you puke because then you'll have wasted some good booze.

I'll stick with three thoughts;

1. The biggest obstacles to our getting #18 may very well end up being Chicago, Miami and San Antonio. We don't need a terribly strong inside presence against those three, but we do need to be strong and deep on the perimeter which it looks like we will now be. I think Green and Krstic will both prove to be key additions against those three teams as well as several teams we play with strong small forwards who key their teams offense with well developed outside games primary to their inside games. Let the likes of James, Anthony and others wear down on both ends as we spell Pierce with Green. Krstic should help spread the floor and thereby help solve the issue of clogging the middle and bogging down our offense

2. Let's see what we start to look like out on the floor beginning Saturday night; many who are worried may start to see something they like within a few games.

3. You're going to need some "hair of the dog"; try a greasy cheeseburger with ketchup, mustard and dill pickles. Fries couldn't hurt and wash it all down with a Coke. Following that get a good quality pint of beer; an IPA might taste good after the burger.

I'm here for 'ya you 'ol Hooter Rooter.

Regards

by **TickTock** Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:47 pm

Matty wrote:#1, Tick Tock, a belate welcome to the board/family

#2 yesterday i made mention shortly after this trade i needed a drink and then to let the dust settle. when i said that i had no plans to follow yesterdays events any further.

things didnt allow me to have as many drinks/as soon as i liked, but eventualy the time came and i had more than enuff to "get the job done" making staying functional fr the game last night became impossible..

so i had my drinks and the dust has settled, read the pro's and con's & i have to say, 24+ i'm not convinced this was a good move, Im just not convinced that without Perk's presence these others can help us win #18..

Looking past my fear we cant do it this yr, there is a a fear of what next season will bring. Losing Perk this season also means we're preety much out of contention to deal for him next yr.. where does he land? There are several places i'd be down right scared to see him end up at..

then what are our options next season for aquiring a quality 5? Will Shaq &/or JO be aboard for yet another season? If not, our options are limited, the MLE, LLE and i think the Bi-annual exceptions will be what we can offer- or do we expect to land a quality player with the 28,29th or 30th pick in the first round?

even a drunken stupor wasnt enuff to settle down my fears.. anyone think they can offer me some more positve aspects not already mentioned that i can reflect on? Im still in the "i think i am gonna puke" stage..

Hi Matty

First of all thanks for the welcome, feels great to have found this board.

I'll try and offer some more positive thoughts along the excellent ones from NYCCelt (especially #3)

1. Many people thought we couldn't win number 17 with Rondo at point and yet we did. I know not having a strong point (at that time) and not having a strong center aren't interchangeable but it does prove that not every position on your starting five has to be filled with an all star caliber player to win a championship.

2. We played quite well without Perkins. We played a total of 9 games against the Heat,Bulls,Knicks(before Melo), and Magic without Perkins and were 7-2 in those games, including going 2-0 against the Heat and Knicks. To elaborate a little more on this and as mentioned in the Peter May article we were 33-10 without Perkins and only 4-3 with him as starter.

3. I know you said you only wanted new things to reflect on, but I do want to mention again that our roster is by no means complete right now and that before we all jump off ledges lets see who fills the three open spots (although if Sheed fills one of them I give everybody permission to jump Smile

)

As NYCCelt said, let's see how they play tomorrow, I think a win along with a good performance from the new guys would go a long towards easing everybody's tensions.
Hope the "I think I'm gonna puke" is starting to pass.

by **bobc33** Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:02 am

NYCelt wrote:Matty,

You know I love you man, or maybe it's your avatar, whichever, but don't let this make you puke because then you'll have wasted some good booze.

I'll stick with three thoughts;

1. The biggest obstacles to our getting #18 may very well end up being Chicago, Miami and San Antonio. We don't need a terribly strong inside presence against those three, but we do need to be strong and deep on the perimeter which it looks like we will now be. I think Green and Krstic will both prove to be key additions against those three teams as well as several teams we play with strong small forwards who key their teams offense with well developed outside games primary to their inside games. Let the likes of James, Anthony and others wear down on both ends as we spell Pierce with Green. Krstic should help spread the floor and thereby help solve the issue of clogging the middle and bogging down our offense

2. Let's see what we start to look like out on the floor beginning Saturday night; many who are worried may start to see something they like within a few games.

3. You're going to need some "hair of the dog"; try a greasy cheeseburger with ketchup, mustard and dill pickles. Fries couldn't hurt and wash it all down with a Coke. Following that get a good quality pint of beer; an IPA might taste good after the burger.

I'm here for 'ya you 'ol Hooter Rooter.

Regards

NYC,

RE #3 - We're talking Matty here, king of cheesecake. Don't forget Hooter's homemade cheesecake!

by **Matty** Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:11 pm

Lol guys,

actauly yesterday for lunch i visited my favorite local burger joint for lunch and supper for a combined 4 fries, 4 burgers and 64 ounces of dr. pepper, and yes Bob, i also had some homemade cheesecake (dang ya'll know me well)

i think i;ll have to individually answer everyone:

Pumpsie, as far as Perk next yr, his emotional respose to learning he was traded i think says a lot about his feelings about being a Celtic.. how much that would affect his loyalty to the team in getting an extension/new contract with us I dont know, it looks like from what i understand it was only a few mill a yr that seperated where Boston was now and what his Agent was looking for..

my feeling was twofold for Perk and our joint future. had he stayed with us we'd be in a position to offer him more money- possibly meet in the midle of each teams desired $ amount. Now Oklahomah can do that, or teams with the cap room.. IF we were to offer him a deal, the best we could do it the MLE- only about half what seems to be Perk's asking price, and again, looking ahead next year, the one area we'll likely need the most help with is- the 5 and what will be our biggest finicial deal we can offer? the MLE.. no way we'll land another caliber of center as Perk for that money..

NY, looking at the Playoff picture i figgure we're going to be going through bulls, magic, miami, new york- at least 2 of those teams we'll meet ( i think as we readjust we could easily lose the east in home court advantage to Miami) It seems to me that the changes on paper at least make us a team more reliant on what as u said, we do around the perimiter- in doing so, we give up a defineitive edge at the 5 against new york, bulls and heat, while surrendering our best shot at neutralizing Howard.

agaisnt the Heat im particualry worried. Paul can still go head to head with Lebron and while Lebron will come out ahead the Truth is one of the few guys who can lessen the damage King Nothing will effect against a rival team.. only if Boston meets New York & 'Melo how much will he have left in the tank for His Nothingness?

I still think we give up a bit in Allen VS Wade, while the opposite is true of Bosh VS KG.. in all in the 3 Amigo's VS the 3 Ego's in a 7 game series I'd allow a slight advantage to the Ego's, our advantages were at the 1 & 5 (Perkins) and an overall better bench. Our Bench is now Deeper but we've lost a tactical advantage completely..

With or without Perkins i like us against San Antony.. but if the Lakers end up in the finals against US.. we're going to be looking at the O'neils (56 games played out of a possible 112) and Krystic who all three combined average 21.1 pts and 13.1 rebounds..

Unless bad things happen to the Lakers and our guys end up matching up with Theo Ratliff for 48 mintes a game we're going to end up giving up another tactical edge to the lakers at the 5 once more.. and we all know how well that worked out last season.

by **Matty** Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:16 pm

bobc33 wrote:[RE #3 - We're talking Matty here, king of cheesecake. Don't forget Hooter's homemade cheesecake!

right now im considering heading to columbus Oh. to see some freinds this weekend and hitting Hooters (and getting their carmel fudge cheesecake) OMG, its good.. dang i wish i wascloser to a Hooters- the nearest one is 78 miles or so away..

by **babyskyhook** Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:40 pm

The thing I don't understand about this trade is that it takes away Perk, a key component of a team built to win now, based on the idea that the Cs wouldn't be able to re-sign him. But Green isn't going to be THAT much cheaper to re-sign.

If I recall correctly, Boston's total player payroll was around $82m last year.

It's currently around $78m for this year. If 3 long time vets are signed it will end up right around $82m again this year.

So that seems to be a payroll level that ownership is comfortable with.

Prior to the trade, the Cs were looking at a payroll of roughly $70m for next year, with Perk and Baby needing to be re-signed.

Even if you spent $20m for the two of them combined in the first year, payroll would only be about $8m over it's current level.

Isn't it going to take about $15m to keep both Baby and Green ?

So we're talking about a $5m difference. Under the keep Perk scenario, they would end up about $8m over this year's payroll instead of $3m over.

Given the respective ages of the Big 3 and the fact that the Cs were as well-positioned as anyone to win it all this year, doesn't it make sense to take a small one year financial hit to keep the core of a team together that's been to two Finals in three years ?

The entire team outside of Pierce and rondo come off the books in summer 2012, so they would have had massive cap room that summer even if they re-signed Perk.

If the Cs were not playing well this year, then this would make sense to me.

But the Cs had as good of a chance as anybody to win it all. They certainly looked like the best team in the East. And a Finals series vs the Lakers I would have rated as a 7 game tossup. Now that all gets thrown into question. If it's Lakers-Cs in the Finals now, I would definitely give LA the edge.

But maybe Danny and co really don't expect to see the LAkers in the Finals. Maybe they think it will be the Spurs or Dallas. But I'd be shocked if that's the case, as no team outside of El Segundo, CA knows more about pacing themselves in the reg season and then kicking it up 10 notches for the playoffs.

And it can't be b/c Danny is worried about the Heat ? The Cs own the Heat.

To me, it seems like getting a vet swingman to back up the 3 via buyout or by surrendering young assets would have been a much better route to take.

Because Green is a pretty good young player, but it's not like he's Russell Westbrook. Green is a bit of a tweener, and even though he does have upside, for this team as presently constructed, he will be getting minutes as backup to Pierce and maybe sometimes KG, although Green has problems with 4s. he's much more effective at the 3.

Maybe I just have soft spot in my heart for Perk. I have always liked players who max out limited talent through sheer hard work, are unselfish and willing to do all the dirty work with no hope of ever making an AS game or magazine cover. I was defending Perk on this board last year at the deadline when various people wanted to trade him and Ray for Monta Ellis and Biedrins, so maybe I'm just biased.

But I really don't get it. The Cs are already thin at the 5 b/c of the Oneals' collective injury issues. Weakening that position further by trading away the starting center seems like a HUGE risk, when the player that's coming back is going to be a bench guy on the current team.

PLus you bring up potential chemistry issues with the rest of the core 4 by shipping out a guy they were all very close to and who did all the dirty work while needing no shots to be happy and work hard.

I understand it's financially motivated, but Wyc's group isn't George Shinn. They spend money. And were only talking about a difference of $10m for one year.

They would have taken a small one-year financial hit to re-sign both Perk and Davis, but they would have given themselves their best shot at winning titles over the next two years and had a young core of Perk, Rondo and Davis to build around once everyone else comes off the books in 2012.

And if the idea is to get Dwight Howard, they could easily unload Perk for other assets in 2012 once they knew Dwight wanted to come (although I think he'll end up as a Laker, but that's a whole different kettle of fish).

So color me confused.

I think this weakens the Cs a lot vs LA and Orlando, although I don't think the Magic are a real threat. BUt I think this also weakens them vs the Bulls, who are a very real threat, as Perk's pick and roll D and ability to patrol the lane is a huge factor vs Rose, and Noah/Boozer/Gibson are going to be a handful on the boards without Perk.

I had the Cs as a lock to come out of the East if they were healthy, but now, I think it's much more of an open question between them and the Bulls. (I think the Bulls will destroy the Heat btw if they are in the same bracket, just as the Cs will.)

As a Laker fan, I am happy Perk is gone , because that completely changes the equation between the two teams.

But I am bummed for you guys, as it sucks to have a guy who everyone likes traded so suddenly like that, but also because I just think it's the wrong move from a management standpoint based on the rest of the roster and the franchise's goal of winning as many titles as possible over the next two years.

I give Ainge credit for having a huge set of stones, but to me, over a relatively small amount of money, this seems like a big step backwards for a team built to compete for a title this year and next.

by **bobheckler** Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:42 pm

Ok, so I decided to take a peek at how our new players have done, this season, against the teams we're getting them to compete more effectively with; specifically San Antonio, Orlando, LAL and, to some extent, Miami. This is not easy, especially in the case of Miami, since you can't assume on matchups (i.e. did Green defend at the SF at all against LBJ, or did Harden and Durant?). I also looked at how our departed players, especially Perk, did against these teams. As Sam has pointed out, it's not just what we lose, but also what (and where) we gain and why.

Of course, what I'm doing here is taking individual performances and doing matchups. In a team concept, which is what Boston Celtic basketball is, this isn't the best way of doing this, but it is one way of getting past the emotional content of this trade.

Boston vs

Orlando - L 78-86; Shaq 6 fouls in no time flat; No Erden/JON/Perk

Howard - 6pts, 11 rebs
Baby Davis - 16pts, 8 rebs

Opinion of that matchup; Davis held his own. Not having Perk and Erden (and having almost no Shaq due to fouls) wasn't the problem. They shot lights out from 3. Better perimeter defense (Jeff Green?) may help that.

San Antonio - W 105-103; No KG, Perk, Erden

Tim Duncan - 18pts, 5 rebs
Baby Davis - 23pts, 2 rebs
Blair - 2pts, 4 rebs
Shaq - 4pts, 1 reb

Opinion of matchups; we held our own on both. The loss of Perk and Erden was irrelevant. The addition of Green will make life harder for McDyess and Jefferson. Once again, the loss of Perk/Erden changes nothing.

Orlando - W 109-106; No JON/Perk/Erden

Howard - 33pts, 13 rebs
Shaq - 12pts, 2 rebs
KG/Davis - 34pts, 12 rebs
Bass/Anderson - 29pts, 8 rebs

Opinion of matchups; Howard killed us, we held our own on PF (event though Davis was playing against Howard some of the time). The addition of Green and Krstic will allow Davis to play more against Howard (which he does well) and Krstic will force Howard to come away from the hoop. We won without Perk and Erden.

Lakers - W 109-96, No Erden, JON

Bynum - 11pts, 6 rebs
Shaq - 2pts, 12 rebs (13 minutes)
Perk - 2pts, 6 rebs (28 minutes)

Opinion of matchups; Shaq didn't score much but rebounded/minute like a fiend. If he does that, then he's what we missed in game 7.

Orlando - W 91-80; No Shaq, JON

Howard - 28pts, 13 rebs (10-20 shooting)
Perk/Erden - 2pts, 13 rebs (1-6 shooting)

Opinion of matchups; if Perk is the "D12 killer", then his aim was way off this game. Howard had a field day. We won despite a 26 point deficit given up by the centers we just traded away. Will Shaq and Krstic fare better? How much worse could they do? Considering we won, maybe letting Howard take over the Orlando offense might not be the worst thing.

Lakers - L 86-92; No Shaq, JON, Erden

Bynum - 16pts, 9 rebs (6-10 shooting)
Perk - 12pts, 9 rebs (4-6 shooting)
Baby - 9pts, 5 rebs (3-10 shooting)

Opinion of matchups; a slight loss for Celtics. This was the game where Lakers shot 48% and we shot 40%. Rondo was 5-14, KG was 4-13 and Baby was 3-10. Sure, maybe Perk stopped Bynum from going 25/15, but how often does that happen?

OKC vs

Boston - In the two games we played against OKC this season, Green didn't play in either. Our record is 1-1. In center matchups:

Game 1: Krstic 13pts/8 rebs, JON5pts/9 rebs Erden 9pts/4rebs No Shaq/Perk

Game 2: Krstic 4pts/3rebs, Shaq 11pts/6rebs, Erden 2pts/1reb No Perk, JON

Bottom line, Krstic did pretty well against us in game one, not so good in game 2. BOTH games were without Perk.

HOW DID OKC DO AGAINST THESE TEAMS?

San Antonio - Loss

Tim Duncan - 6pts/4rebs
Green - 12pts/3 rebs

Green did well against a HOFer. We should remember that, on the Celtics, he won't be starting against Tim Duncan. He'll be going against McDyess and maybe Bonner.

San Antonio - Loss

tim Duncan 21pts/9 rebs (10-15 shooting)
Green - 7pts/7 rebs (2-9 shooting)

Revenge of the Timmy. See my caveat above. This will not be a matchup he'll see a lot of, but it is educational to see how he did against this level of talent.

Orlando - W

Bass - 8pts/4 rebs (3-8 shooting)
Anderson - 15pts/5rebs (5-10 shooting, 3-5 from 3)
Green - 12pts/6rebs (4-10, 3-5 from 3)
Ibaka - 6pts/4rebs (2-6, 6 fouls)

Green held his own and then some against Bass, Anderson torched Ibaka. On the Celtics, it'd be Green against Anderson and Bass would have to deal with KG.

Lakers - L

Green - 6pts/2rebs (3-11 shooting)
Gasol - 21pts/7rebs (8-19 shooting)
Krstic - 4pts/4rebs (2-4 shooting)
Bynum - 10pts/10rebs (5-8 shooting)

Green's not long enough to handle Gasol. Krstic only played 16 minutes, as OKC decided to go small.

HEAT - L

Green - 23pts/11rebs (10-21 shooting)
Bosh - 20pts/7rebs
Krstic - 2pts/2rebs (<16 minutes)
Z - 8pts/5rebs (20 minutes)

Green held his own against Bosh. I'm not a fan of Bosh, for a number of reasons, but when he's in rhythm he can be very tough and he was in rhythm this game and Green still matched up well. Krstic and Z were supernumerary in a game of smallball. Neither played big minutes, neither were impactful.

WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?

Well, for one thing, it's that unless we put Chris Johnson on Gasol (should LAL get past SAS), we're at a height/weight disadvantage since Green can't cover him, not that Perk spent much time on Gasol either.

Perk was not a Howard killer. We all give him an A+ for effort, but the facts are that Howard still posted very good numbers despite Perk. Against Bynum he did well, but on a team with Kobe and Gasol, Bynum rarely goes off for huge numbers anyway, he doesn't get to touch the ball enough to do it.

Erden was a warm body, which we needed (and maybe still will), but he was effectively a non-factor against these playoff teams and, now that we are in the last 1/3 of the season, it's all about the playoffs.

Krstic is ok. He's not a "Gasol-for-spare-parts" type of steal by any means, but he's ok. It'll be interesting to see the "sphincter factor" the first time he wusses out on defense and KG gets right in his face. He was the starter on a team that was well known to need a starting center. He will now be playing the position he really should have been playing all along, backup.

Green is a solid player who is not long enough for some matchups, but he's young, athletic, can shoot and could be a future all-star.

I'm feeling better about this trade now. As Doc said "we'll see", but
Perk's only chance of being an all-star is in the center-starved WC.

We know, with only 13 players on the roster (and one of them is Chris Johnson) there will be more coming. We'll see, and then we'll know.

bob

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by **Sam** Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:41 pm

Bob,

A very enlightening analysis. I'm a little mystified about one thing. You say that, against the Lakers, we're at a height/weight disadvantage. Doesn't KG spend a lot of time on Gasol, especially when both Gasol and Bynum are in the game. If Bynum's not in the game, maybe going small, with KG and Green matched against Gasol and Odom respectively, has some merit. The Celtics give up no more than a grand total of one inch in that matchup of duos.

One thing that can be overlooked in the unfortunate over-emphasis on each individual involved in the trade is that the Celtics gave up some bulk at center but gained a whole lot of flexibility and versatility. Two keys to being able to make effective matchup adjustments are flexibility and versatility.

I'm still having great difficulty identifying anything about this trade that is so immensely disturbing that we should just wring our hands rather adopting a wait-and-see stance.

Sam

by **babyskyhook** Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:44 pm

Bob-

as I posted in detail above, I still don't get it.

Especially now after reading in one of these threads that Perk was only looking for 4 years $30m. JUst doesn't make sense to me for a team built to win now.

by **LACELTFAN** Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:00 pm

Baby- There's nothing to get....DA went stark raving mad, the pressure made him snap, IMHO he's ready for a session in the rubber room...
we C's fans just have to grin and bear it....Hope for the best.
It's time for the leprauchan to come provide a some help.

by **Sam** Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:09 pm

BSH, there are other reports that he was looking at four years @ $12 million per season. That would be much more in line with what several other centers of his ilk have received recently. Moreover, Danny has said that Perk was determined to test the market. And who knows what the means, especially given the looming uncertainty of the CBA?

Sam

by **babyskyhook** Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:11 pm

sam wrote:BSH, there are other reports that he was looking at four years @ $12 million per season. That would be much more in line with what several other centers of his ilk have received recently. Moreover, Danny has said that Perk was determined to test the market. And who knows what the means, especially given the looming uncertainty of the CBA?

Sam

Even if it was $10-12m, though, if you sign Baby for a reasonable amount, their finances wouldn't have been that different.

Do you think there was a worry about his knees in the long term ? Or that for some reason he was going to want to leave beyond just $$$ ?

by **babyskyhook** Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:13 pm

LACELTFAN wrote:Baby- There's nothing to get....DA went stark raving mad, the pressure made him snap, IMHO he's ready for a session in the rubber room...
we C's fans just have to grin and bear it....Hope for the best.
It's time for the leprauchan to come provide a some help.

Well I guess that could be the explanation LAC. Hope you're well.

by **bobheckler** Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:16 pm

sam wrote:Bob,

A very enlightening analysis. I'm a little mystified about one thing. You say that, against the Lakers, we're at a height/weight disadvantage. Doesn't KG spend a lot of time on Gasol, especially when both Gasol and Bynum are in the game. If Bynum's not in the game, maybe going small, with KG and Green matched against Gasol and Odom respectively, has some merit. The Celtics give up no more than a grand total of one inch in that matchup of duos.

One thing that can be overlooked in the unfortunate over-emphasis on each individual involved in the trade is that the Celtics gave up some bulk at center but gained a whole lot of flexibility and versatility. Two keys to being able to make effective matchup adjustments are flexibility and versatility.

I'm still having great difficulty identifying anything about this trade that is so immensely disturbing that we should just wring our hands rather adopting a wait-and-see stance.

Sam

sam,

Yes, KG does usually matchup with Pau, occasionally it was Perk, but Jeff Green won't be seeing much of Gasol. He will, however, be seeing a lot of Odom and Odom has a couple of inches on Green AND is longer. Clearly, Bynum has nobody who can bang him back, other than Shaq.

As far as going small against the Lakers when Bynum is in there, we were forced to do that in Game 7 and he, with only a leg and a half, pounded us into paste with help from the also-long Gasol and Odom. Going small, IMO, works like the fullcourt press does: in short, focused spurts. Anything longer than that gives up a lot of layups as the other team adjusts or, in the case of going small, a lot of offensive rebounds leading to buckets plus the foul. Going small because you can is an asset, going small because you have no choice because you can't match straight up, is not. Becoming more versatile by gaining speed and the ability to go small while giving up the ability to go big could be a net zero.

I'm calmer now than I was on trade day. After watching Perk two days earlier at Oracle Arena, I was not happy he was gone. Now, I'm looking forward. I'm considering what we gained, what we lost and what opportunities are out there to at least minimize our losses while still being able to apply our gains. One thing that I have completely accepted is that there is more coming, so shrieking out primal screams about any newly developed weaknesses is a premature ejaculation (and those are never good in any context). Ask me again on 3/1, when playoff rosters must be set, and watch the decibel count to see if I'm still sanguine about these trades.

bob

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